Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[EWC]

So you're basically saying that I should be ASDI towards the stage, but when I hit the tech button let go and SDI? But if I'm not even using ASDI (since for SDI the control stick has to be reset into neutral position) then should I even use it?

If you use SDI to tech, then ASDI is useless. The reason for this is that, with SDI, you hit the edge during hitlag. ASDI doesn't happen until the first frame after hitlag has ended. If you SDI, you should have already teched by this point. This is also why SDI allows you to tech at any percent, while ASDI fails at high percents.

 

[RaynEX]

i disagree.

i think approaching with shine is really good vs marth because must marth players will try to pivot grab u.. so u should expect it and overshoot your shine then u get them with shine witch can lead to up-smash grab.. so i like to shine approach in that match up..

At the very least, against characters that can be waveshined across a flatland, running shine seems to have more merits.

approaching with shine is amazing, who cares about range when it's unfairly safe and can combo into something

Ok, I'll be honest. I've never really had much success approaching with shine. Watching vids on youtube...I never saw it being used well.

But if all of you say its pretty **** good then I'll believe you. So overshoot with shine? Makes sense, but the lack of range scares me. lol SOOPA RYAN has a good point though. It IS unfairly safe.

 

[RaynEX]

So you're basically saying that I should be ASDI towards the stage, but when I hit the tech button let go and SDI? But if I'm not even using ASDI (since for SDI the control stick has to be reset into neutral position) then should I even use it?

No; I'm saying that you pick one. Either ASDI or SDI:

SDI: Wait for the hit, smash d.i. it and quickly tech afterwards.

ASDI: Hold the direction before you get hit, tech, let go of the c-stick shortly after the tech.

If you use SDI to tech, then ASDI is useless. The reason for this is that, with SDI, you hit the edge during hitlag. ASDI doesn't happen until the first frame after hitlag has ended. If you SDI, you should have already teched by this point. This is also why SDI allows you to tech at any percent, while ASDI fails at high percents.

right on the money.

 

[idea]

hmm, cool, i didn't know that. i always figured that ASDI was SDI, but faster. why do they have the same name =P

 

[Silent Wolf]

tech chasing on platform w/ dair is awesome because it essentially jab resets them, allowing you to charge a dsmash/fsmash (which leads to KOs at mid-high %s) or charge a usmash, or just grab>uthrow (which often leads to tech chasing the same way on the top platform, or usmashing/uairing.

also, i find myself checking this thread everytime someone makes a new post, but i never read it lol.

its too easy for them to di the dair off the platform, uairs better

 

[I.B]

If you ASDI with the c-stick it overrides any input you attempt on the control stick.

All in all, c-stick inputs override joystick inputs for DI.

 

[Ryan-K]

worst case scenario is you miss in which case whatever, you can wd back or grab if they shield or jump or whatever

 

[EWC]

Shine is a good thing to use out of sequences of platform movements, because if you don't hit, you can just waveland away, and it barely even interferes with your movement.

 

[RaynEX]

All in all, c-stick inputs override joystick inputs for DI.

I thought I said that already. Back to the Marth boards with you.

 

[RaynEX]

Shine is a good thing to use out of sequences of platform movements, because if you don't hit, you can just waveland away, and it barely even interferes with your movement.

mmhmm. I was thinking the same thing. Not enough people do this though ^.

 

[Binx]

I didn't know the c-stick overrode the joystick, thats too good, maybe that will help me tech Marths counter lol, for some reason when I am doing a firefox I just never remember to quickly switch it to down and towards the stage where I can tech, but maybe if I try the c-stick after i can remind myself to do it.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

No; I'm saying that you pick one. Either ASDI or SDI:

SDI: Wait for the hit, smash d.i. it and quickly tech afterwards.

ASDI: Hold the direction before you get hit, tech, let go of the c-stick shortly after the tech.



right on the money.

No you don't have to choose one. As long as you're holding either control stick in any direction as the hitlag ends, you will SDI in that direction (if both are held, it will ASDI in the c-stick direction)
So if you SDI you will also ASDI in the same direction when the hitlag ends unless you neutralized the control stick before the hitlag ended.
You never have to use the c-stick for ASDI. Unless you want to ASDI in a different direction then the one you're holding the normal control stick in.

Also you should always tech before the hitlag (ie: before you get hit and before you SDI), otherwise you'll just have a 1 frame window for the tech.

EDIT: But if you successfully tech with the SDI, the ASDI won't matter.
My point with this was that you don't have to choose, because if you time the SDI to early you'll still ASDI. If you're afraid you might time it to late you can use the c-stick just to be safe tho.

 

[CanISmash]

i broke a falco's shield with firefox today.

discuss.

i think it was drill shine , and then i wanted to double shine messed up shine up-b and i watched it cook and crack open.

 

[KosukeKGA]

It's Fox. What do you expect? :]

 

[Binx]

Falco should learn when to roll? discuss.

But yeah though, not practical, what do you do if they move at all, you get punished, hard, and probably without a double jump.

 

[CanISmash]

lol it was an accident / a funny moment. obvious not something to use.

 

[chize]

hey raynex, im having trouble with the drill>shine>TURNAROUND>wavedash>grab or whatever. i always seem to get stuck in the shine while turning and become unable to wavedash. i was watching ur combo video and noticed how nicely you did it against marth. is there a trick to it or something? how can i perform this effortlessly like you? this would be extremely helpful to me since i end up drilling the enemy facing the opposite direction a lot of the time.

 

[RaynEX]

Are you talking about dair (facing them)->shine (turnaround in shine) -> wavedash?

Or do you mean simply waveshining backwards? Or maybe you mean turning around in your shine to face your opponent if you're facing the wrong way? Could you explain it again, I can't really picture it in my head.

Oh, but in almost all situations where you need to turnaround in your shine:

When you hit your opponent with your shine, make sure you slow the process down in your head. Turn around first, then WD. If you're waveshining backwards, make sure you jump before you direct the control stick to WD - otherwise you'll just turn around.

 

[RaynEX]

These are the kinds of situations when Roy's counter is super useful.

 

[chize]

im meant turning around in your shine to face your opponent if you're facing the wrong way, particularly after drilling.

 

[Sizzle]

RaynEX I've noticed in your videos you seem to do perfect wavedashes very consistently. I read somewhere that using the screw attack item (?) is a good way to practice them since it makes you do the weird jump thing if they aren't perfect. Do you have any other suggestions?

 

[JonaDiaper]

no one plays roy anyways

 

[Teczer0]

im meant turning around in your shine to face your opponent if you're facing the wrong way, particularly after drilling.

I kinda shine then after the waveshine hold the direction I want to turn to.

Not sure if its like the most frame efficient way of doing it but... I waveshine upsmashed peaches and sheiks doing it and they couldn't shield so I think it works......

 

[RaynEX]

im meant turning around in your shine to face your opponent if you're facing the wrong way, particularly after drilling.

There is only one crucial step you have to get right in this process. It is the most commonly failed step too.

Dair->shine...

then make sure you DON'T try to turn around WHILE THE SHINE IS HITTING YOUR OPPONENT. Wait for the hit lag of the shine to subside, THEN turn around and WD in their direction. It might feel choppy at first, but once you break it down it will become more fluid the more you use it. Remember that you can't turn around while the shine is hitting your opponent, because there is lag when that happens. You have to wait for it to hit, then turn around, THEN WD. Do it slowly, then gradually speed up - you'll see what I mean eventually.

RaynEX I've noticed in your videos you seem to do perfect wavedashes very consistently. I read somewhere that using the screw attack item (?) is a good way to practice them since it makes you do the weird jump thing if they aren't perfect. Do you have any other suggestions?

I heard about the screw attack thing, but thats not how I practiced it. I think I just sort of got into the habit of making them really long by forcing myself to get it down over the years. Every time I mess up an easy waveshine combo because I did it too short, I'd always get pissed off because I knew I could do it.

You just need to make sure that the stick is as horizontal as possible without actually being horizontal. Its supposed to be at a 45 degree angle or something, but it needs to be even more horizontal to get near perfect WDs. Just watch yourself; everytime you do one that could have been longer - remember to slide your thumb more towards the side next time.

Perfect WDs make comboing waveshine-able characters alot easier; and it makes your WD more viable as a bait move. The longer it is, the higher chance you have of dodging a move someone throws out if you try to bait with it.

I kinda shine then after the waveshine hold the direction I want to turn to.

Not sure if its like the most frame efficient way of doing it but... I waveshine upsmashed peaches and sheiks doing it and they couldn't shield so I think it works......

Hey, whatever works right?

 

[halcyon.days]

K 2 questions.

When I try to shine and then jump (with control stick, I was just experimenting with a few things) it seems to either not jump at all, or have a slight delay. But when I do it in the air, I jump instantly. Is it because Fox has to jump "off the ground" as opposed to just double jumping?

Also, about angled tilts in general. Aside from letting you hit below/above/wherever, does it change the knockback or any other properties at all?

 

[knightpraetor]

is it possible to learn to perfect chaingrab in 2 days? atm i'm still missing DI behind me at <20% or something reasonably often.

I'm guessing turn around upsmash or uptilt will work for now..but advice? which should i use? i was hoping to learn to perfect chaingrab, but a missed grab occasionally means they get out with almost no damage:\

I've been playing with full jump dair in fox dittos but can't find a use for it...i mean i get it to hit, but the damage output to risk seems low compared to using nair

 

[chize]

raynex, if a drill hits the opponent (not shielding) and it is l-canceled, will you be able to follow it up with a GUARANTEED grab?

thanx for the shine advice, you too teczero

 

[halcyon.days]

is it possible to learn to perfect chaingrab in 2 days? atm i'm still missing DI behind me at <20% or something reasonably often.

I'm guessing turn around upsmash or uptilt will work for now..but advice? which should i use? i was hoping to learn to perfect chaingrab, but a missed grab occasionally means they get out with almost no damage:\

I've been playing with full jump dair in fox dittos but can't find a use for it...i mean i get it to hit, but the damage output to risk seems low compared to using nair

To practice chain throw, go against Fox level 1. He will always DI behind you. Good practice to turn around grab -> turn around grab

 

[Shinku]

how do i beat pc's fox? lol

 

[knightpraetor]

as i remember, level 1 fox always di's partially behind you. Without full DI it is child's play to get the regrab. I wish it were an option for practicing though...i'm just inaccurate.

Does anyone prefer upsmash to uptilt when they di behind you? i was thinking that they are less likely to DI the uptilt correctly than the upsmash.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

I just perfer whatever has a better chance of making them tumble to they're death.

 

[RaynEX]

raynex, if a drill hits the opponent (not shielding) and it is l-canceled, will you be able to follow it up with a GUARANTEED grab?

thanx for the shine advice, you too teczero

Drill->grab is inescapable if you do it perfectly. There is probably only one move that can beat it, and one that I've seen beat it so far: Fox/Falco's shine.

Ganon's jab/Bowser's upb may be able to but I'm not sure. If I had to guess though, I'd say Bowser's upb can too because it isn't that much slower than shine.

Characters like Jiggs/Peach/Falcon/Marth are screwed because they don't have anything fast enough to beat the grab after you lcancel the drill. The last hit of the dair is what stuns them, then because of that you have time to lcancel then grab them.

I wonder if rest is fast enough...

 

[I.B]

^ that's if they don't SDI the drill though right?

 

[RaynEX]

K 2 questions.

When I try to shine and then jump (with control stick, I was just experimenting with a few things) it seems to either not jump at all, or have a slight delay. But when I do it in the air, I jump instantly. Is it because Fox has to jump "off the ground" as opposed to just double jumping?

Also, about angled tilts in general. Aside from letting you hit below/above/wherever, does it change the knockback or any other properties at all?

First question: Yes; jumping in the air is faster. The animation of you leaving the ground slows the process of ground->air down a bit.

Second question: Depends on the character and the move used. Mario for example, his low angled ftilt has no knockback (similar to ICs dair), and won't kill even at 999%. In general though, most low angled attacks send you more horizontally.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I'm assuming that, yes...

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Well rest comes out frame 1, so it's def fast emough. But I think its range might be too small to hit after the dair unless Fox land right next to jiggs.... dunno though.

 

[crispyone]

How do you do the PC edgehog?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Walk towards the edge. When you're close, turn around SLOWLY so that yous slide off backwards. To do this you can lightly flick the control stick in the opposite direction. Make sure you don't dash.

 

[I.B]

Walk towards the edge -> momentum -> turnaround just before you fall of the edge

 

[Sanu]

RaynEX, why are you so gay? =)