CanISmash
Smash Lord
**** falco with his lasers filled with stds...
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
MarkLoo
Smash Ace
Someone correct me if i'm lying, but i don't think jab ever guarantees anything. jab > usmash on marth can be di'ed and fair'ed out of
As for the shinegrab, it depends on the opponent. If they like to wait in shield while you pressure, it probably is, but if they tend to roll out, better to stick with traditional shield pressure.
Someone who actually knows fox answer please answer the other ones =x
lol guys ... Falco is the reason I started to leave fox.
I still fear fox though, specially those who know how to use grabs and upsmash well and don't do dumb technical ****
Like it or not is a fact that falco is amazing, if played properly of course >_>
I still fear fox though, specially those who know how to use grabs and upsmash well and don't do dumb technical ****
Like it or not is a fact that falco is amazing, if played properly of course >_>
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Shine spam > Falco Most Other Characters
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Don't worry, I got this.
Jab->usmash is guaranteed only if they don't d.i. or d.i. towards you. However, some characters can attack you before you usmash. I.e.: Luigi, Marth etc at certain percents. If your opponent d.i.s away it shouldn't be possible for you to land an usmash. If you do they ****ed up after they d.i.ed.
If your opponent shields, reset your approach. Sometimes waveshining backwards or jumping out of shine and onto a platform is good. You don't always have to be attacking. If they do shield your aerial, these are my suggestions:
-JC the shine into another shine and escape onto a platform.
(or jc shine another 20 times until their shield breaks
)-shine grab could work, but its hard to react that fast. I'd suggest aerial->shine (if they block), JC nair/dair->shine again->THEN grab. It gives yourself time to work on their shield.
-waveshine backwards and laser, then try a different approach.
-JC the shine, FJ over them and bair their shield. If you're facing Peach she can't do much when you're behind her. Bair shine her shield or just spam utilt, lol. Vs. Marth don't do this, because he jumps OOS and dairs you and techchase->Death.
-Or you can avoid this entire situation all together and go for grabs vs. these characters instead of aerials.
Sometimes just running in and grabbing is your best option.Approach:
Raynex said:
Running in and shielding is good. Its a relatively safe option that allows you to react in a variety of safe ways depending on what your opponent does. If they move away WD out of shield and overshooting and move works well. If they tend to run back alot, try running straight at them and dtilting. It covers a nice, wide area in front of you and knocks them into the air for juggling if it hits.
When you have platforms to work with, try to bait out shieldgrabs and other moves so your opponent lags and you get some free hits in. Just watch your opponent, and make sure that when you attack it isn't into an open space your opponent isn't occupying.
K.Oing Vertically:
-Subtract about 10% from the numbers I give you when playing on smaller levels like Yoshis. 15%-20% on green greens/corneria.
Vs. Sheik: Usmash kills at mid-high 80s on most neutrals. If you grab her at 90% she dies on all neutrals except dreamland.
Vs. Marth: Usmash kills at 80 on most neutrals. Grab at about the same percent should yield a kill on Yoshis, FoD, FD...imo Marth dies at about the same percent as Sheik..if not a tad earlier.
Vs. Peach: She dies earlier than both Marth and Sheik. Uthrow uair can kill her if you grab her even at like 70-75 sometimes.
oh...and smash d.i. might destroy all of these percents I'm throwing out. These are just off the top of my head.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
Marth dies earlier then Sheik.
sdi DESTROYS ALLL
:D
:D
Goldkirby
Smash Ace
ahh ****. Well nvm then, cause I'm not going all the way out there to play smash, lol.
Now, right now I have nobody to play regularly, so if any of you live in nyc and want to play friendlies on a semi-regular basis, lmk. I want to get better at this game, I've been at the same crappy level for a long time now.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Sometimes it doesn't feel like the difference isn't that big though. Anyone else get what I'm saying?
Sheik dies @ really low percents alot. In my head the deaths %s of sheik rival Marth's. If i had the game in front of me I'd probably know better though.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
hey earlier you said that you would techchase on plastforms with fox's dair..i don't understand why..how is that as good as bairing or wavelanding to grab? which position do you cover? do you just pick one? because with bair even if you miscall the weak hit of the bair often hits.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
tech chasing on platform w/ dair is awesome because it essentially jab resets them, allowing you to charge a dsmash/fsmash (which leads to KOs at mid-high %s) or charge a usmash, or just grab>uthrow (which often leads to tech chasing the same way on the top platform, or usmashing/uairing.
also, i find myself checking this thread everytime someone makes a new post, but i never read it lol.
also, i find myself checking this thread everytime someone makes a new post, but i never read it lol.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
i just can't really agree with that..i mean who misses techs on platforms..those are some of the easiest to get...maybe if i shined them from the top platform to the side ones, then i would follow up with this..but usually i would expect a tech of some kind
SCOTU
Smash Hero
fair enough. The midwest does kinda suck at melee, so they're more likely to miss techs on platforms. That aside, if they do tech, it's simply the same as waveland grab/usmash/dsmash.
On the other hand, if they do tech, you can just meaty them w/ the dair.
On the other hand, if they do tech, you can just meaty them w/ the dair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It is easier to U-throw U-air Sheik at high percent if she DIs behind you than it is to hit Marth with it.
Milos
Smash Lord
2 questions real quick
Is running shine turn around sh bair a useful approach? Why or why not?
What's are good ways to escape faclo/fox shine shffl shield pressures as fox? Shine out of shield maybe? Or like buffered rolls would work? I can't get away with ground dodging cuz fox's nair and dair and falco's dair have hitboxes that last long enought to hit you after the ground dodge ends. Aggghhh need help!
Is running shine turn around sh bair a useful approach? Why or why not?
What's are good ways to escape faclo/fox shine shffl shield pressures as fox? Shine out of shield maybe? Or like buffered rolls would work? I can't get away with ground dodging cuz fox's nair and dair and falco's dair have hitboxes that last long enought to hit you after the ground dodge ends. Aggghhh need help!
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
Sometimes when I try to tech the when I'm recovering, I'll do a bair as soon as I tech. I ASDI with the c-stick and try to SDI with the control stick, but I'm just holding the c-stick towards the stage... why does the game think i'm trying to do a bair? Should I release the c-stick as soon as I tech?
I can tech like 5 times in a row with Marth and I won't bair with him. But with Fox it's like every 1/2 or 1/3 I'll bair after I tech.
I can tech like 5 times in a row with Marth and I won't bair with him. But with Fox it's like every 1/2 or 1/3 I'll bair after I tech.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Ask yourself that question about approach again. lol...running shine as an approach? Super flashy, no range, unnecessarily hard to perform and when you do land it you only get one hit because they might CC the bair randomly.
If you land a running shine just grab or usmash or something. Approach with nair/dair/grab. Use platforms and bait your other moves because they don't really combo into anything. The only time shine should be used as an approach is if you are 100% sure your opponent isn't going to turn around and fsmash you in the face.
If Falco/Fox are shield pillaring you, wait for the shine - then usmash out of shield or shine out of shield.
Both usmash and shine come out before your opponent Fox/Falco can JC the shine into another attack. shine/usmash oos are actually faster in respect to frame data, so if its not working you're either waiting too long or messing up somewhere. If you time it right JC shine is the fastest/easiest oos move to do in the game. Usmash can lead to combos, but its a bit slower...so you might mess it up sometimes and get hit. I'd suggest shine against opponents who are overly technical and don't screw up much.
In my experiences, rolling out of shield stuff is bad because your opponent reacts and follows you and does something worse. Sometimes, vs. Falco, I'll wait for the shine, then sidestep the dair and try to trade shines then JC an aerial. Occasionally, this will throw your opponent off and they might miss the lcancel/JC. lol man shine is so broken.
errr...really? i find shieks nair OoS to be easier....i jsut fail...owh
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I guess you're right. Honestly though the difficulty difference between pressing down and B and pressing just A isn't that big.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Bernie are you still coming over today?
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
That's what i was thinking, that perhaps it's decent if you can net the grab afterwards even if they tech. However, either I'm not used to it and going slow, or mixups are much stronger in this position for them.
Basically i tried it in one match and got grabbed. I mean i could have dashdanced before going in of course; but basically if i remember correctly, i timed it so that dair would hit if they teched in place, and then dashed after their tech to the side.
usually when i waveland they cannot grab me first ..but maybe i was late on the grab or he was incredibly lucky. I guess i'll try it some more.
Fox dittos aren't my forte:\
they rank up there in terms of my weakest matchups..I just do not want to go out again in singles in fox dittos. I feel so unconfidant that it makes me want to use marth. It doesn't help that i spend the week getting 0 to deathed by my friend in fox dittos on FD. his accuracy on that is scary. On the bright side maybe i'll get better at timing the shine out of upthrow before the regrab. Is there a particular percent where i should be guaranteed to get out?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Running shine is nice to thunders combo with. And with Fox's speed it seems like a fairly valid way to approach. especially since the shine comes out so fast. And then there's always the charged upsmash > bair/uair to follow up the thunders.
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
...Drill shine.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
go to atlantic north or hit up hax
thumbswayup
Smash Master
How do you shine out of shield? I know you have to hit up on the analog stick right before up on the c stick to upsmash out of sheild. Is shining the same concept?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yes only you press down + B instead of C-stick up
You could also use a jump button --> down B
DACKNESS knows whats up
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Thanks, the timing on that must be insane.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
If you time the dair for if they miss the tech, then you can just grab them no matter how they tech on the patform before they grab you.
I KNOW fox can shine out at 51% with no DI. I don't remember if this is the earliest or not.
I KNOW fox can shine out at 51% with no DI. I don't remember if this is the earliest or not.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
You can't both ASDI and SDI at the same time. If you ASDI it overrides any input you attempt on the control stick. If you want to simply ASDI then ledge-tech (which I don't suggest you do):
make sure you let go of the c-stick as soon as you hit your tech button - otherwise you'll attack in the direction you were ASDI'ing in.
You should just practice SDI timing on techs; it resets your character into a position more into the direction you want. ASDI does the exact same thing as SDI, except to a lesser degree.
hmm, Marth has more lag after he wall techs something, so when you do it with Marth he is probably still in that lag when you hit the c-stick. Because Fox techs so fast, often he'll be done his tech so quickly you'll attack instead of ASDI. Does that make sense?
It is the earliest. If you fail at 51%, 55% with no d.i. is when it gets really, really easy. You can jump/shine out at 55 with ease. Just make sure to not d.i. like Scotu said.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I don't agree. I think dropping through platforms and shining, jumping over them and shining and dash-cancel roll into shine (i.e.: really close into Marth's blindspot) are all viable approaches.
But you think Fox's speed, and the fact that it comes out fast is enough? They'll just run away and pivot grab you. The shine has pitiful range, running in with it is usually unreliable unless it follows an aerial.
People these days know how to deal with Fox's speed, then just slow him down with good spacing and knock him off and edge-guard his incredibly linear recovery. Running in with shine may seem good, but imo its not very smart.
Picture the shine as this big hunting knife.
Now picture Marth as this unrealistically huge spirit dragon fire sword with wings and guns from some obscure anime you've never heard of.
If Marth gets you its a rap.
all dai? all dai.
No, what I meant by shining out of shield was:
Shield -> SH SHINE. If you can do an otg shine thats obviously better, but seeing as most people can't JC shine oos fast enough to stay grounded, a SHed one will have to suffice. Just hit them with it to clear some space then pour the pressure on that Fox/Falco.
Binx
Smash Master
My friend is starting to SDI off the platforms when I go for drill resets, so I've been wavelanding and shielding, if he gets up, attacks, or rolls towards the edge Im facing I get a grab, if not I get a short hop bair to his face, obviously I mix it up sometimes just jumping up with an uair, or bair depending on percents and positioning. But basically I only try for drill resets on the middle of the platforms now /cry
EDIT: Fox vs Fox, when can you wiggle shine with DI up out of an upthrow?
i disagree.I don't agree. I think dropping through platforms and shining, jumping over them and shining and dash-cancel roll into shine (i.e.: really close into Marth's blindspot) are all viable approaches.
But you think Fox's speed, and the fact that it comes out fast is enough? They'll just run away and pivot grab you. The shine has pitiful range, running in with it is usually unreliable unless it follows an aerial.
People these days know how to deal with Fox's speed, then just slow him down with good spacing and knock him off and edge-guard his incredibly linear recovery. Running in with shine may seem good, but imo its not very smart.
Picture the shine as this big hunting knife.
Now picture Marth as this unrealistically huge spirit dragon fire sword with wings and guns from some obscure anime you've never heard of.
If Marth gets you its a rap.
i think approaching with shine is really good vs marth because must marth players will try to pivot grab u.. so u should expect it and overshoot your shine then u get them with shine witch can lead to up-smash grab.. so i like to shine approach in that match up..
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
At the very least, against characters that can be waveshined across a flatland, running shine seems to have more merits.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
approaching with shine is amazing, who cares about range when it's unfairly safe and can combo into something
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
So you're basically saying that I should be ASDI towards the stage, but when I hit the tech button let go and SDI? But if I'm not even using ASDI (since for SDI the control stick has to be reset into neutral position) then should I even use it?
Cia
das kwl
yeah, jesus did that to my marth alot.. it was gay.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
who cares just uair where they land and you can chase the roll on reaction and grab lol