Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Tomacawk]

mind a quick critique? The fox style I'm going for is similar to cactuar's...I've worked pretty hard on it and it's the fox I'm taking to SMYM9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa5_5vlZH-I&fmt=18
thanks in advance

 

[I.B]

Never try and copy Cactus' characters. Work towards a style of your own.

 

[Tomacawk]

Never try and copy Cactus' characters. Work towards a style of your own.

I have my own style, I just changed it to be more like cactuar because I like the hit and run style he plays

 

[Binx]

Tomacawk work on edgeguarding with shines, wavedash to the ledge drop and shine during invincibility, or do it with good timing and you don't even need invincibility.

Also there are several times you wavedash while tech chasing, dash dancing is better because wavedash has 10 frames of lag.

Other than that not terrible.

 

[Oskurito]

Raynex how you become so good with fox?

 

[Cia]

LOL.. not even. i've seen Stos in the ZSS boards. it's only a matter of time before they take that over as well.

 

[RaynEX]

so can falco and fox interrupt dair to grab with shine? I have totally forgotten how many frames the opponent should be in stun. All i remember is that it varies by up to 3-4 frames based on how close to the ground the last hit of the dair hits at.

I think that shine, spotdodge, and maybe roll are the only things in the game to beat this imperfect combo, but i'd like some clarification if possible.

I don't think rolls/sidesteps can do it. But I know for a fact that shine can, after testing it with a friend.

So I was just wondering something about KirbyKaze's amazing guide for SDI/DI on Fox's uair.

I'm assuming this works at any percentage?

Also, let's say it's a fox ditto. You get hit by nair -> shine -> tap reset (thunders') and then a uair while you're getting up. Is there any way to SDI the uair so you only get hit by the first "weak" hit? Since you're basically standing in the same spot (ie. like getting thrown up by Fox with no DI)?

Yes, SDI works at any percentage on Fox's uair.

No, you can't SDI the thunders combo. If your opponent does try to uair you for a launch, its the second hit of the uair that gets you, not the first. So there really isn't any way to avoid that at all. All you can do is try to lessen the blow by d.i.ing in strange directions, and attempt to screw up your opponent's follow-ups.

Yes, you can SDI the second hit, but you can't escape being launched in any way. Alternatively, you could try SDIing the jab - like lvl 9s do. If you do it right you'll stand up from the jab instead of getting reset. Its insanely hard though.

 

[idea]

what would the creators have thought if you explained the thunders combo to them...

 

[RaynEX]

They would've said, man...that **** is SO TIGHT.

 

[SCOTU]

**** breaks out of dair>grab when CCd and shine and spot dodges can, i dunno about rolls.

you can SDI the jab of a thunders upwards to force it to not jab-reset you

 

[RaynEX]

mind a quick critique? The fox style I'm going for is similar to cactuar's...I've worked pretty hard on it and it's the fox I'm taking to SMYM9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa5_5vlZH-I&fmt=18
thanks in advance

First off, at 0:40 - try not to do that. I mean, the Falcon killed himself, but your shine-bair completely missed. Just be patient and wait for him to come back on the stage, then calmly knock his *** back off again. If you really want to play like Cactus, you have to start being ALOT more patient, especially when it comes to your edge-game. Cactuar will just sit there and wait, then **** you. Learn2wait.

Also, I don't care what people say about nair spam all the time to win. I'd still rather prefer grabbing Falcon at 0 then chasing him around the stage doing combos on him that he can't escape involving lots of dair. You need to be more combo heavy vs. Falcon. If you play it right he shouldn't be able to move.

Oh, and you need to try to be more random with your teching. You have a million and one options at your disposal, and yet I managed to tech chase you with my eyes. . Being even the slightest bit predictable will get you stomp->kneed vs. even the mediocre Falcons. Techchasing half their game vs. spacies, so the majority of Falcons you will end up facing are probably pretty **** good at it.

At the end, you failed the edge-guard so bad. You waited waaay too long. Why didn't you just drop down and shine him while he was upbing? That match could have been yours...good **** anyways though.

But what I.B. said is right. Most of the things Cactuar does only works for Cactuar. Trust me, I've tried emulating his **** too.

Raynex how you become so good with fox?

Lots of practice. Like...no music, ipod stylez, practice like 2-3 three nights a week when I have nothing to do for like an hour. You'd be surprised at how much it actually helps movement and stuff. It makes it so that you don't have to think at all for the simple things, and that when you do them - they are really smooth. i.e.: nice clean long WDs, waveshine usmashes on Marth forwards and backwards, etc etc

LOL.. not even. i've seen Stos in the ZSS boards. it's only a matter of time before they take that over as well.

This guy is catching on. *runs*

 

[RaynEX]

**** breaks out of dair>grab when CCd and shine and spot dodges can, i dunno about rolls.

you can SDI the jab of a thunders upwards to force it to not jab-reset you

The word before breaks is censored. : (

Oh, and you can't CC dair. CC shouldn't be involved in a plan that attempts to beat drill. Drill is the CC killer.

 

[Tomacawk]

First off, at 0:40 - try not to do that. I mean, the Falcon killed himself, but your shine-bair completely missed. Just be patient and wait for him to come back on the stage, then calmly knock his *** back off again. If you really want to play like Cactus, you have to start being ALOT more patient, especially when it comes to your edge-game. Cactuar will just sit there and wait, then **** you. Learn2wait.

Also, I don't care what people say about nair spam all the time to win. I'd still rather prefer grabbing Falcon at 0 then chasing him around the stage doing combos on him that he can't escape involving lots of dair. You need to be more combo heavy vs. Falcon. If you play it right he shouldn't be able to move.

Oh, and you need to try to be more random with your teching. You have a million and one options at your disposal, and yet I managed to tech chase you with my eyes. . Being even the slightest bit predictable will get you stomp->kneed vs. even the mediocre Falcons. Techchasing half their game vs. spacies, so the majority of Falcons you will end up facing are probably pretty **** good at it.

At the end, you failed the edge-guard so bad. You waited waaay too long. Why didn't you just drop down and shine him while he was upbing? That match could have been yours...good **** anyways though.

But what I.B. said is right. Most of the things Cactuar does only works for Cactuar. Trust me, I've tried emulating his **** too.



Lots of practice. Like...no music, ipod stylez, practice like 2-3 three nights a week when I have nothing to do for like an hour. You'd be surprised at how much it actually helps movement and stuff. It makes it so that you don't have to think at all for the simple things, and that when you do them - they are really smooth. i.e.: nice clean long WDs, waveshine usmashes on Marth forwards and backwards, etc etc



This guy is catching on. *runs*

thanks. Not to john or anything, but in friendlies I'm more worried about showing off tech skill than other ****. see you at SMYM9 though, and thanks

 

[thumbswayup]

I still can't shine to back air with Fox >_> I've been trying a lot recently, but nothing I do seems to get it right. It's on a Falco player that I've been practicing it on mostly. Any advice?

 

[Tero.]

I still can't shine to back air with Fox >_> I've been trying a lot recently, but nothing I do seems to get it right. It's on a Falco player that I've been practicing it on mostly. Any advice?

Practise.

10shinebairs

 

[EWC]

I still can't shine to back air with Fox >_> I've been trying a lot recently, but nothing I do seems to get it right. It's on a Falco player that I've been practicing it on mostly. Any advice?

Hit with the top of the shine, cancel fast with the analog, bair asap with c-stick. You're probably focusing too much on canceling the shine super fast. If you use the control stick to jump, then you can easily cancel fast enough, unless your fingers are really slow. Make sure to hit with the top of the shine, and bair almost at the same time as you jump (unless you do it from the ground), because these both make a huge difference.


Honestly though, don't spend any time practicing shine bair, because

1. It's useless. There is literally never a situation when shine bair is your best option. There is always something easier and more effective.

2. When your tech skill is good enough, it'll be easy. Like a year ago, I would always try it and fail, so I stopped trying. About a month ago, I decided to try in a friendly match, and I can do it like 100% of the time now.

 

[Tomacawk]

another critique anybody?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZfOaZMr1h0&fmt=18

 

[RaynEX]

More grab -> usmash. When you land nair-shine, jab or tech-chase with usmash. I see that you were trying to carry him to the edge by continuing to nair->shine, but any compentent Falco would CC that -> your entire stock. Just throw him on a platform and uair like you were doing before, or even bair.

I would say to edge-guard better, but he SDed twice I think? lol

 

[Tero.]

ai RaynEx (or JMan or anybody else) if youre up for some video critique:

I have a Bo3 set against the best german Falcon and one of the best german players (actually he won the award for "best german player" on the german boards so yeah, he's quite good).
Could you please have a look at them:

Fox vs Falcon - FoD
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5fjfPHrCljk&fmt=18

Fox vs Falcon - RC
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=gQJFuTTncOc&fmt=18

Sidenote:
I can't shorthop, jc grabs, waveshine and l-cancel in tournaments because im no nervous lol (well l-cancel and jc grab kinda work, but i always mess up) so yeah i play fulljump style lol...

thank you <3

 

[Tero.]

ai RaynEx (or JMan or anybody else) if youre up for some video critique:

I have a Bo3 set against the best german Falcon and one of the best german players
Could you please have a look at them:

Fox vs Falcon - FoD
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5fjfPHrCljk&fmt=18

Fox vs Falcon - RC
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=gQJFuTTncOc&fmt=18

Sidenote:
I can't shorthop, jc grabs, waveshine and l-cancel in tournaments (well l-cancel and jc grab kinda work, but i always mess up) so yeah i play fulljump style lol...

thank you <3

edit: wohoo 500 posts

i mostly need general advice, i've analyzed the first match and i saw most of my (many) mistakes, but yeah some general advice would be pretty cool.

edit 2: excuse my bad english >_>

 

[RaynEX]

Alright, so my first word of advice:

When you throw your vids on the boards for others to see, you should be well aware that some people may say bad things and others may say good. Pointing out that you weren't playing your best, too nervous, etc etc all qualify as super johns.

Still, who am I to judge? I'm just saying that if you plan to explain why you made the mistakes you made, there isn't any point in posting the vids up. I'd feel it'd be just telling you things you already know.

oh, and I'm going out to smash - so I'll watch them and critique them when I get back a bit later. I watched the first two stocks where you ***** the Falcon though. lolol. According to the comments he makes a comeback?

 

[Tero.]

Yeah those were just other words for "i ****ing suck, sorry to hurt your eyes with this ****" xD
thx anyway

 

[Tomacawk]

More grab -> usmash. When you land nair-shine, jab or tech-chase with usmash. I see that you were trying to carry him to the edge by continuing to nair->shine, but any compentent Falco would CC that -> your entire stock. Just throw him on a platform and uair like you were doing before, or even bair.

I would say to edge-guard better, but he SDed twice I think? lol

thanks a lot man. you're the only person who actually critiques me, so i really appreciate it
we need to play some friendlies at SMYM9 for sure though
maybe i'll be good at fox dittos after that

 

[RaynEX]

I miss the way it was back when I first joined the boards. There were alot of players that posted in here that didn't play Fox, but knew alot about him and some of his technical aspects. Every time someone had a question, it was answered thoroughly by 5 or 6 knowledgeable people. Same with videos; if you made a thread and uploaded vids, you'd get really good critiques and tips from a ****load of people - regardless of who you were/how good you were. Its how I got to where I am now. Sadly alot of those players don't post in these boards, if even at all on forum as a whole.

These feelings of nostalgia are really what make me want to give good advice, or at least try to.

 

[cykofox]

is this a good way to carry the match rayn? in fox dittos?

start off with fhtl. if they decide to take a ground approach shdl. if i want to approach shl.
if they dont approach and camp me with lasers use shine or light shield until they approach me?

approaching with nair is predictable and if i shield theyll do the dd to grab or nair again.
i could cc the nair even if it hits me with the strong hitbox?

platforms i uthrow wait for tech bair. sometimes i waveland usmash/grab.

if i grab at 0 its uthrow usmash techchase usmash grab u throw uair or bair if they di good

once their offstage its just refreshing the frames and bair and shine

i also like ftilt them to poke em back out. i also like to waveland into a bair on their firefox.

i seen you use dtilt also. wat are its uses?

thanks

 

[Falcinho]

dtilt is cool to shieldpoke and after CCing moves.

Whywould you approach with shlers?


Random note: Yesterday i SDI'd Fox jab away (after an uthrow), then i wavelanded back into usmash and it hit =D (i was Falcon)

 

[cykofox]

why not? please be informative...

 

[DtJ Jungle]

becaue you might as well just jump at them.

its not really all that safe.

if you like have them in the air and are following a combo..you can laser them in between...chasing them...but just like...approachign with lasers arent that smart imo.

 

[RaynEX]

is this a good way to carry the match rayn? in fox dittos?

thanks

"start off with fhtl. if they decide to take a ground approach shdl. if i want to approach shl.
if they dont approach and camp me with lasers use shine or light shield until they approach me?"

- I either do fhtl or go straight in for an attack. I'll try to use a quick WD back or something on a platform to bait my very first approach. Once you get the first grab you have momentum and you taking off the first stock gets alot easier. If they refuse to approach you, shine or approach with fullhop nair/dair on their head. Once you bring the battle to them, the real fighting will begin. I only suggest counter-camping if you're facing characters like Jiggs/Peach etc etc. Vs. anyone else your aggro game will wreck them if you pay attention to where they are moving and intercept them.


If you're talking about Fox dittos, **** lasers. Just be quick, safe and efficient - go straight for the grab. At the beginning its about who gets grab. If the guy I'm facing DD camps or makes it difficult for me to approach, laser till he's at about 20ish...then you can start throwing around usmashes. Once an usmash hits at that percent its extremely easy to combo out of it.




"approaching with nair is predictable and if i shield theyll do the dd to grab or nair again.
i could cc the nair even if it hits me with the strong hitbox?"

-You can CC the strong hit of the nair, but because of the hit-stun the stronger hit delivers, opponent Fox will be able to shine before you do anything. If you do any attack and miss with Fox, I'd suggest sometimes buffer rolling behind them, or buffer sidestep. Alternatively, overshoot your nair and aim for where they'd run back to, instead of where they are standing. Get what I'm saying? That way if they try to DD grab, you intercept their DD. Its a very easy strat that works well vs. DD spammers.



"platforms i uthrow wait for tech bair. sometimes i waveland usmash/grab."

-If they are at 0, don't bair. I suggest dair->wait-> usmash/grab. If they are at 20 I suggest uair, or dair. I'd only ever use bair after uthrow on platform if the bair would knock them off the stage and set up for an edge-guard. On levels like Yoshis, and FoD where the platforms are really close to the edges of the stage, I use shine to knock them off quickly.

So uthrow -> SH shine -> waveland on platform -> follow them off and edge-guard or grab edge and edge-guard.




"if i grab at 0 its uthrow usmash techchase usmash grab u throw uair or bair if they di good

once their offstage its just refreshing the frames and bair and shine"

-This is good for tournament purposes. I like being more creative though. If you can manage it, throw in a shine or utilt somewhere. If you react to their d.i. well you can even add nair and dair->grabs to combos to super extend them. Its just to mix it up a bit. I hate being repetitive.




"i also like ftilt them to poke em back out. i also like to waveland into a bair on their firefox."


-Yea ftilt is sex. Use it against firefox sweetspotting and if they try to double jump and sweetspot grab the edge. lol waveland bair. Just do a regular bair, or shine.


"i seen you use dtilt also. wat are its uses?"


-I use it in only 3 different situations.

#1: If I have an unfinished combo, and my opponent misses the tech, and usmash won't kill. I'll run and dash-cancel dtilt, then uair. If they d.i. away, the dtilt sends them on a pretty horizontal trajectory and you can edge-guard easily afterwards.

#2: I do this rarely, but at low percents vs. Fox/Falco, I dtilt as an edge-guard. If Fox/Falco illusion dtilt cuts through it easily. If they d.i. the dtilt towards you, people usually don't realize that they can land on the stage. In this case, you can grab or shine them. If they neutral d.i. or d.i. away, its over. They have no double jump. Grab edge and shine. Its just a flashy way of doing things, haha.

 

[TornUnder]

Yeah, for a Wombo Combo, do you have to jump cancel your shine and cancel the jump with a u-smash? And when I multi-shine with Falco, I can only do it once, and I can't jc the third shine. Help?

 

[Tomacawk]

I miss the way it was back when I first joined the boards. There were alot of players that posted in here that didn't play Fox, but knew alot about him and some of his technical aspects. Every time someone had a question, it was answered thoroughly by 5 or 6 knowledgeable people. Same with videos; if you made a thread and uploaded vids, you'd get really good critiques and tips from a ****load of people - regardless of who you were/how good you were. Its how I got to where I am now. Sadly alot of those players don't post in these boards, if even at all on forum as a whole.

These feelings of nostalgia are really what make me want to give good advice, or at least try to.

yeah man, i came to these boards from the start of the 2007 MLG season (maybe offseason of 06 i forgot) and I was a H2 player, so I missed out on the haydays of smashboards, because i only became active justbefore brawl came out
and I wonder how technical i would be if I played from the beginning O.o

 

[RaynEX]

Yeah, for a Wombo Combo, do you have to jump cancel your shine and cancel the jump with a u-smash? And when I multi-shine with Falco, I can only do it once, and I can't jc the third shine. Help?

Yea, cancel your jump with usmash. Uhh..on multishining, there is no reason why it shouldn't work. You're probably just messing up. Keep your JCs consistent and with the same timing as your first two were.

 

[KirbyKaze]

THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT KITTENS

I hear Colbol has a really fat one. But it's not a kitty because it is old.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i have a kitty!!!!!

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

my kitten keeps bringing in dead birds and mouses. then she puts them in my mom's shoes for some reason.

 

[EWC]

My cat scratched my hand yesterday. I went to show her all the blood, and she was just like =}

 

[idea]

THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT KITTENS

I hear Colbol has a really fat one. But it's not a kitty because it is old.

funny, that usually doesn't work, redirecting a thread like that.

my cat is pretty fat too. i'm sure you'll agree.

my kitten keeps bringing in dead birds and mouses. then she puts them in my mom's shoes for some reason.

she considers it a present for your mom.

 

[Frames]

THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT KITTENS

I hear Colbol has a really fat one. But it's not a kitty because it is old.

he does have a fat one

named starfox..........yea seriously

 

[RaynEX]

Darkrain has one cat named Fox and one cat named Falco. No lie.

Ironically Fox is really fast and jumpy and hyperactive and Falco is just a lazy *** and waits for stuff to come to him. (i.e.: he camps)

lol..

 

[RaynEX]

Probably a lot more technical. Practice pays off. : D