Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Cia]

watch ANY cactuar fox video. /bestadvice

 

[unknown522]

raynex, when can be performed the u-throw> nair > re-grab vs fastfallers?

probably around 15 - 20%, any higher than that should be di-able

nair -> re-grab never works, unless they survival DI. It works after 20% until like 80%+ if they survival DI. They'll probably go too high after that

 

[RaynEX]

Sorry for the hiatus. I'm back from the WNY tourny so I'll catch up on some of the questions I've missed tomorrow morning.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Rayne are you going to Flatzone?

If I make it I hope to see all of teen titans (mainly you and KK)

 

[RaynEX]

RaynEX, I used your advice on approaching against the Marth I play yesterday, and it worked. I was more patient and I was actively thinking about all my options and which one would take him by surprise. Running shield got me a few shieldgrabs. I also took somebody's advice (I swear it was PC's, but I can't find the post) to delay your attack and attack where you think they'll move. I tried running in and just crouching randomly (that worked). I also tried running through my opponent and dash canceled fsmash him. Both of those would take him bsurprise because I'd use them sparingly.

Now for some questions:

What do I do against a ledge camping Marth at a high percent? I know that I should laser him, but if he already has a stock lead I'm forced to approach eventually. The problem is that if I get grabbed/sent of the ledge I'm dead more often than not.
What should I do against a Marth who has the ledge. At the moment, I get right outside fair/getup attack range and punish how he gets up. The only problem is that if he gets up normally I don't have any options.

Any general tips against spacies? The only time I'll ever get to fight a competent spacy is at a tourney, so I'd like to know some bread and butter things to do. The only thing that I really know is upthrow to upsmash (and Thunder's combo, but that's giving me trouble for some reason. Maybe I don't WD far enough)

EDIT: I can't seem to uthrow uair Jiggs. She always jumps out. Do I just suck?

I.B. answered most of your questions already. But I'll add a bit to it. Oh, and I'm glad my advice helped at least 1 person.

1. I found a pretty good way around this. If they ledge camp you, try running into them and rolling towards them, into their blindspot. It sets up easy shine combos/gimps and Marth may miss his grab occasionally. Its pretty dangerous but the reward is high if everything goes according to plan . Sometimes I run in and WD back to try and get them to get them to do something. Then I'll grab or usmash or shine and commence the edge-guard/****. Another good thing to try is to super space dtilts. It works well in these kinds of situations. The Marth is cornered and they don't really jump when they're near the edge anyways. If they d.i. the dtilt away you get a free shinespike usually. If they d.i. towards its uair madness. You could also try spacing Bairs on their shield. If you do it right he shouldn't be able to grab you, and if you hit you can just turn around and JC grab sometimes.

2. I answered a few questions in a pm one time. I think the things I said could apply to what you asked as well:

Alright I'm not really sure where to start, but I'll just start typing and hope this ends well. : )

Fox dittos are really weird. The priority is all screwy, and you can't really depend on trading or preset notions of what moves should beat what because it all feels completely random. Fox on Fox a match-up in the game that I have the absolute least problems with.

The biggest misconception is that you need tech skill to win this match-up. I lost to Azen in pound 3 pools because he simply walked up towards me and used usmash at the right times. Gay, but he knew where I was going to go and what I was going to do. Additionally, he figured that usmash was going to beat my approaches etc etc. It is completely possible to win Fox dittos with simple tactics like uthrow usmash, uthrow bair, thunders to grab and other basic things. Fundamental Fox is the most deadly and efficient, because you don't risk messing up going for the novelty bair/shine combos and whatnot. If you THINK you don't have the tech skill to win a Fox ditto, then use your brain instead.

Things to focus on in the Fox ditto:

-Not making the first move EVERYTIME

-GRAB GRAB GRAB GRAB

-Learning how to punish your opponent accordingly at ___ percent and on ____ level; even if it involves _____ amount of platforms.

-Using dair 3x as much as you use nair

-Usmash is viable as a move on its own, not only as part of a combo. If it is spaced, and your opponent blocks - people are usually too slow to do anything to you for it. Thank god it does crazy shieldstun.

Nair spacing is overrated. What you should be doing is getting the dair. There is no way around it; it isn't CC-able, and you can FJ approach with it. If your opponent continually dashes away to dodge and grabs you, then try to buffer a roll or sidestep, then shine to clear space. Its not always in your best interest to go flying into your opponent, even though the shine can protect you if they block your aerial. Look at the way they are moving and try to predict where they might go. If you feel that when you take to the sky, they might run away and go for DD grab, then FF and run straight at them. Overshoot a grab to where you think they'll run, and it might work. The key in Fox dittos is to force a situation where YOU aren't the one that is lagging into THEM.

This doesn't mean camping, I mean look for openings and attack at the right times. Being creative helps too. Dashcancel dtilt? : )

Don't full hop nair excessively. Full hop is really slow, and its very easy for your opponent to read your trajectory and figure where you are going to land. This is going to result in CGs or death vs. good Foxes. Keep the super jumping to a minimal in Fox dittos. If you do, land on them with dair, because weak FJ nair hits can be CCed by even inexperienced players with relative ease.

CCing:

Fox's CC game is a tad limited. You're right about his grab range though, he doesn't have too much of it. If you are trying to CC Marth's Fair, Fox's nair, Sheik's tilts or a jab of any kind, these are the moves you should be doing:

#1: Shine

#2: Usmash

#3: Dtilt

The rest are debatable, including grab. If they are close enough after the CC just grab them instead of overcomplicating it with shine. In the Fox ditto specifically, CC with shine/usmash only. The others are too slow and your opponent's shine will usually beat you out. What most Foxes don't know is that if you do a very late nair at the end of your SH, with the full hit - it can't be CC grabbed even by Marth. The hitstun the strong hit of nair delivers keeps characters in stun long enough for Fox to follow up with shine. This is why Fullhop Nair isn't that great of a move at higher levels of play. I always encourage Foxes to stay away from weak early nairs and go for strong late nairs instead. Especially on shields - because it makes it adds more hitstun onto it.

Combos:

-Keep in mind that when you uthrow a Fox/Falco and they don't d.i., you can still run away, run back and NAIR. This is something I spam alot. Forget utilt - if you run away and come back to nair them while they are still hanging there...man almost everyone d.i.s into you. This leads to super DBR combos that M2k would be proud of.

-At 0%, I usually re-grab till they get to about 20% then start utilting and following d.i. with more grab.

-imo combing is about finding your own way of doing things. I could make a huge list, but the best way to learn would be to just go into vs. mode by yourself and beat on a lvl 1 for a while.

3. Just be faster after your uthrow. (*see Witch-king's post)

1. Usually waiting it out at a safe range works. Position yourself far enough not to get hit by any ledge attempts, but close enough to punish them. Watch out for normal get-up to buffer roll, or nair/fair to buffer roll/side step, these are common ways of getting up from the ledge as Marth.

2. This would basically test your ability to react. Some people charge an up-smash to punish this, some go in to pressure with nair/dair, some grab. It all depends on what % they're at. You could even do the Cactus and just stare at them, lol.

3. Shine is your friend vs. spacies. One of your major ways of keeping on top of the game should be through shine -> tech chase. Work on your sh nair timing and spacing to beat them out on approaches, and follow up with shine. If they start CCing, dair to shine.

Against Fox, CG to up-smash combos hurt him. Up-throw to bair near the ledge to set up for easy edgeguards. Keep the pressure on.

Against Falco, shine is sex. Knock him down and **** him for it. Be careful with how you place nairs cuz a Falco that CCs will do it and cause you any from 40% to a stock depending on how good they are. Stay in his face all the time.

4. It's all a matter of timing, work on it.

You covered most of it.

What's important to remember for this is that since Jiggs is so light, you throw her up faster. This means that you can actually jump sooner than against most characters, which can mess up your timing a bit.

Good advice Witchking.

 

[RaynEX]

thanx raynex. if thats the case, would it be possible to do sort of a pseudo chain grab against characters like ganon, link, etc. via upthrow>sh or fh dair>grab>upthrow>repeat? or maybe even upthrow>dair>waveshine>grab>upthrow>repeat? i was trying it out on the computer not considering sdi or anything but im just trying to be creative and innovate some combo ideas with dair.

EDIT: nevermind i just realized they could do something before you dair

Not only that, but usually when you uthrow->dair, the last hit of dair doesn't connect. That is the hit with the hitstun on it, so if it doesn't hit...lulz.

I'll tell you my secret to life . If you want to be creative and innovative:

People should pay more attention to platform tricks in general.

Agreed. EWC, where are you from?

raynex, when can be performed the u-throw> nair > re-grab vs fastfallers?

20% -> about 50/60%. But only if they neutral d.i. or d.i. into you. If they d.i. away its impossible to re-grab.

jman/raynex, i have 6 new fox videos, a set against dk, and a set against pika (it's against by far the best player in the area)
this is the last practice i have until SMYM9
so if you have the time and are willing, let me know what you think
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6525422#post6525422
if you critique, you can reply here or in my thread, it doesn't matter to me

I'll probably reply to this in your thread right after I post all this.

watch ANY cactuar fox video. /bestadvice

Or you could just ask questions in here...<3

Rayne are you going to Flatzone?

If I make it I hope to see all of teen titans (mainly you and KK)

Probably not . What date is it, and where in WC? Saskatchewan?

 

[Lovage]

dash cancel dtilt is very good against marth
people dont use this enough/realize how fast it is

wow my advice sucks i wouldnt listen to it if i were you

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Which of these do you think are the most reliable/safe at low %:
Nair->jab->grab
or
Nair->grab
?

 

[Binx]

Nair grab, jabs are too easy to crouch cancel, they can't really escape nair grab if you hit right anyways so... yeah.

I LOVE nair grab vs Marth, and Spacies, its the sex.

 

[knightpraetor]

So i need help at fox vs ganondorf on small stages. How do you camp without lasers safely against ganondorf? I haven't lost a match to a ganondorf on a large stage in a long while...stadium and FD are practically guaranteed wins...but at the same time i feel like yoshi's and battlefield are guaranteed wins for ganondorf, with dreamland being the tossup since it has plenty of room but you can't kill as easily.

Anyways, advice on when to break through his aerials safely..combos that work..when not to overextend combos and get owned...whether i should even bother lasering. Any advice at all.

It's so annoying that there is a shortage of fox vids owning high level ganondorfs on the internet. Linguini is probably the best ganon..or maybe eddie? But most of the vids i see are of them owning people..or at best foxes are owning them on bigger stages.

I'm guessing that the top players just always counterpick when facing a ganondorf? is sheik or marth a better bet? what about falcon? those are the only other characters i am competent with, so those are my options.

I was knocked out of tourney last weekend by ganondorf, and I also lost my only set in pools to ganondorf. I feel like i have a 50% chance of winning...assuming we both stage ban properly, 2/4 stages will favor me a little..and if the random stage comes up small i feel my heart sink.

I still need work at fox dittos..i feel like fox dittos don't distinguish skill that much..even when i win I don't feel like i was exceptionally better than them. if it were fox vs marth, i would know if i did a lot better or not.

Even against the top foxes on the east coast i didn't feel particularly outclassed in fox dittos, I just barely lost. I guess fox dittos are just a matchup where skill discrepencies don't make as much of a difference...probably because of the massive free grab damage:\

 

[Tomacawk]

a whole bunch of ****

You are a machine and one of the most helpful fox community members. Thank you.
AFAIK I've "maxed out" my skill as of now, with the exception of DI and consistency. I mean this in that I no longer see my mistakes, and I really feel like over the last month I've developed a LOT as a player. So please, nitpick the **** out of these videos as I probably wont ever post any more for critiqueing and I'm not even sure if I can even get better than I am now

 

[CanISmash]

im just gonna say you don't have to lazer ganon.....

just run circles around him... he's kinda slow. movement > lasers

 

[MexicanBJ]

if you're having overcoming ganon with fox's speed, out of the list of chars you mentioned, i think you should try sheik, i think that matchup's pretty favored for sheik.......

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Not only that, but usually when you uthrow->dair, the last hit of dair doesn't connect. That is the hit with the hitstun on it, so if it doesn't hit...lulz.

Actually that's not why the dair doesn't have hitstun in a "normal" way if you connect with it in the air.
If your opponent is grounded, you can hit them with any hit of the dair and they'll have as much hitstun as usual. (Or well, this isn't entirely true. cuz I know you can give them more hitstun through spacing it in a strange way and hitting with many hits so they "flip" over. But I know that 1 hit from the dair is enough to combo into a shine regardless of which hit it is, and that's the point)


Anyway, back to the reason why dair won't combo if you connect with it in the air:
The hitstun of attacks that don't make you fall over will be CANCELED if you touch the ground (if they do make you fall over, you will either tech/miss the tech). Not always with all attacks tho, there are a few exceptions, but fox's dair isn't one of them.

So if you connect with the dair on someone ariborne, 1 of these will happen:
They will stay stunned slightly above the ground while you're dairing them, and then they will land on the ground at the same time as you do (after all the hits have occurred), canceling the hitstun. (and actually retalitating a few frames before you, so they can put up their shield and somtimes hit you before you can do anything.)
Since the dair has almost no knockback, it's actually quite common that they do stay "suspended" in the air throughout the dair, followed by landing which cancels their hitstun.
This is the most common outcome, btw.
OR
They will land sometime BETWEEN the multihits of the dair, which usually means that you'll hit them with the next hit of the dair before they can do anything, due to the 4 frame landing lag. They might be able to shield between two hits sometimes, I don't think so but since I'm not 100% sure I thought I'd add that. (It's never happened to me.)


Not trying to be a know it all or w/e, just thought i'd add (cuz i know loads of random stuff like this b/c i've tested & experimented etc when I've been bored)

 

[SpaceFalcon]

The biggest mistake fox's make when playing ganon on a small stage is they run around to much, then ganon just keeps landing all his hits.

Best to not move around that much at all, it's not like he will dash dance in and grab when you shield. Play safely avoiding each hit and countering with attacks when his lagging usually it should lead off the stage which isn't hard to pull off on yoshis or battlefield.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can really just run up to Ganon and kick him pretty easily enough.

It's not like he has fast moves or anything. His general move speed is slower than Falcon's and we all know what to do vs him.

If you give him the time to jump back and whatever I guess he can **** you but just jumping at his face with kicks is pretty pro.

 

[Binx]

Nair shine all day vs ganon. Just treat him like a really slow marth who has a harder time gimping you, stay a safe distance bait an attack, kick him in the head and apply good pressure.

The hardest part for me vs ganon is he is so heavy he makes it difficult for me to combo him out of throws.

 

[halcyon.days]

Okay so I'm back with an edgeteching question again.

Like way earlier it was stated that you can only ASDI or SDI. But I had 2 questions about this.

ASDI works on lower percentages, but about what percentage does it roughly work to? Since I'm pretty sure the percentage relies on what type of attack you are hit with, is there still a rough estimate?

Also, I just wanted some clarification. Let's say I'm firefox-ing up to the stage and I get hit by Marth's Fsmash. Let's say I press L 19 frames before I'm hit (20 is the limit iirc), when i'm actually getting hit I just have to SDI and I should tech?

 

[Binx]

Your goal is to have your body hit a ledge so you can tech, so if you rode the ledge and you were touching it as you got hit you wouldn't need to ASDI at all, if you were slightly above it you want to ASDI into the ledge by going down and towards. Thats why its so easy to tech off walls and floors cause you know your going to hit them, ledge teching isn't any harder provided you are holding the correct direction.

 

[halcyon.days]

Your goal is to have your body hit a ledge so you can tech, so if you rode the ledge and you were touching it as you got hit you wouldn't need to ASDI at all, if you were slightly above it you want to ASDI into the ledge by going down and towards. Thats why its so easy to tech off walls and floors cause you know your going to hit them, ledge teching isn't any harder provided you are holding the correct direction.

But for the SDI-ing part, as long as I press L 20 frames before I'm hit, when I'm actually getting hit, I just need to slam the control stick and it *should* tech?

 

[EWC]

You want to press L less than 20 frames before you hit the wall. The difference between SDI and ASDI is when you hit the wall. When You SDI, you can hit the wall, and hence tech, during the hitlag of the move you're being attacked with. ASDI happens on the first frame after hitlag is over.


ASDI is inferior for three reasons:
1. Since you only hit the wall after hitlag has ended, the timing for pressing L is harder. If the move's hitlag is x frames, then you would have 20-x frames to press L. For some moves, this makes it nearly impossible to tech.

2. ASDI happens at the same time that you starting flying away out of knockback. This means that on the first frame after hitlag has ended, your movement is the combined effect of knockback and ASDI. If the hit is strong enough, your net movement on the first frame will be away from the edge. Therefore, it is impossible to tech using ASDI at arbitrary percents.

3. You have to hugging the wall when you get hit, otherwise you won't be able to go far enough with ASDI to tech.


Because SDI allows you to tech during hitlag, it avoids all of these problems. The only disadvantage is that it is slightly harder to do.


What you should generally do to tech is this:

1. Up B and hug the wall. If you're in a position where this is impossible, just make sure you're as close
2. Press L just before you get hit. The closer the better, but anything between 5-15 frames works well.

3. As you get hit, do a upwards quarter circle towards the stage. So, if you're teching on the left edge, your control stick should start off on bottom right, and end up on the top right. Doing a quarter circle has three advantages over just smashing the stick towards the edge. First, it makes it easier to time, because as long as the moves hitlag overlaps with your quarter circle, you will get at least one SDI off. Second, It allows more than one SDI, so you can tech even if you're a little bit away from the wall. Third, if you miss the tech, your control stick will be positioned to input the proper survival DI for most moves.

4. hold up to walljump.

5. After you tech, you should either side b instantly to grab the edge, or wait and side b into your opponent in their lag, depending on what move they did. Against something like peach's downsmash, wait to side b, or you might tech one hit then get hit again right away. Against something like Falco's dair, side b immediately, or he will be able to hit you with a different move. If your opponent is at a high percent, and right next the edge, you can also bair after your walljump, and hit your opponent away from the edge. I wouldn't usually recommend the last option though.

 

[Binx]

your only in hit lag on a Marth forward smash for like 3 frames, not even enough time to quarter circle SDI more than twice in a quarter cicle thats once up and once up and right, maybe.

Besides I don't know about you but teching under the stage is easy peasy, is when you are ever so slightly above the stage that it becomes hard, also ASDI is SDI, its just automatic meaning if you hold it, when you get hit you SDI that direction for 1 frame, so you are only moving yourself one more pixel using quarter circle SDI, and I suppose you are setting good survival DI as well, but if you have to tech to live my way has less chance of messing up. Like I said earlier I like to do down and towards the ledge, or just strait towards the ledge depending on when I expect to be hit, then right after being hit I hit up to try for a walljump tech, this way I get that savage forward b recovery instead of being gimped anyways.

EDIT: and to answer your question, you don't need to slam anything, just get close enough to the ledge for it to register the tech, and make sure to press L early enough. (I use about 1/4 a second as my guideline)

 

[EWC]

The main point of doing a quarter circle isn't to input multiple SDI's, just to make it easier to input at least one. I agree that ASDI is easier to do, but SDI is only a little bit harder, and I think it's worth learning because it makes it possible to tech in a lot of situations where ASDI won't work.

 

[RaynEX]

You are a machine and one of the most helpful fox community members. Thank you.
AFAIK I've "maxed out" my skill as of now, with the exception of DI and consistency. I mean this in that I no longer see my mistakes, and I really feel like over the last month I've developed a LOT as a player. So please, nitpick the **** out of these videos as I probably wont ever post any more for critiqueing and I'm not even sure if I can even get better than I am now

Alright I've seriously procrastinated on posting advice and stuffzies. So I promise after I'm done my hw I'll get to it. lol

I'm not sure if I can make it to SMYM9 anymore.

Actually that's not why the dair doesn't have hitstun in a "normal" way if you connect with it in the air.
If your opponent is grounded, you can hit them with any hit of the dair and they'll have as much hitstun as usual. (Or well, this isn't entirely true. cuz I know you can give them more hitstun through spacing it in a strange way and hitting with many hits so they "flip" over. But I know that 1 hit from the dair is enough to combo into a shine regardless of which hit it is, and that's the point)


Anyway, back to the reason why dair won't combo if you connect with it in the air:
The hitstun of attacks that don't make you fall over will be CANCELED if you touch the ground (if they do make you fall over, you will either tech/miss the tech). Not always with all attacks tho, there are a few exceptions, but fox's dair isn't one of them.

So if you connect with the dair on someone ariborne, 1 of these will happen:
They will stay stunned slightly above the ground while you're dairing them, and then they will land on the ground at the same time as you do (after all the hits have occurred), canceling the hitstun. (and actually retalitating a few frames before you, so they can put up their shield and somtimes hit you before you can do anything.)
Since the dair has almost no knockback, it's actually quite common that they do stay "suspended" in the air throughout the dair, followed by landing which cancels their hitstun.
This is the most common outcome, btw.
OR
They will land sometime BETWEEN the multihits of the dair, which usually means that you'll hit them with the next hit of the dair before they can do anything, due to the 4 frame landing lag. They might be able to shield between two hits sometimes, I don't think so but since I'm not 100% sure I thought I'd add that. (It's never happened to me.)


Not trying to be a know it all or w/e, just thought i'd add (cuz i know loads of random stuff like this b/c i've tested & experimented etc when I've been bored)

Thanks for correcting me. I like learning new **** too.

 

[Binx]

I can't really think of any situations it makes it possible to tech something you couldn't tech with ASDI, unless you were hit far enough out and were exactly 2 frames away from the ledge instead of 1.

 

[EWC]

Anything that would hit you further away from the edge on the first frame of hitstun than you can move with your ASDI. That basically means any reasonably strong horizontally hitting move at high percents.

 

[Tomacawk]

Alright I've seriously procrastinated on posting advice and stuffzies. So I promise after I'm done my hw I'll get to it. lol

I'm not sure if I can make it to SMYM9 anymore.



Thanks for correcting me. I like learning new **** too.

take your time. no rush for me
that sucks man. I was hoping to get better at fox dittos through friendlies with you/tink/kels etc
and i never got to play you at event 52. lol
well hope you can make it anyway--i thought i wasn't going to event 52 until 8 hours before it started, so you never know (my ride called me and said he could go again, lol, so i packed my **** at midnight and drove 5.5 hours to the tourney >.>)

 

[halcyon.days]

(stuff about teching)

THANK YOU. 10tys

 

[RaynEX]

The biggest mistake fox's make when playing ganon on a small stage is they run around to much, then ganon just keeps landing all his hits.

Best to not move around that much at all, it's not like he will dash dance in and grab when you shield. Play safely avoiding each hit and countering with attacks when his lagging usually it should lead off the stage which isn't hard to pull off on yoshis or battlefield.

Everyone gave good advice on this topic. I agree with all of you; attacking constantly while actively thinking about how far his moves go is a good way to win vs. Ganon. Work around his moves and get close for big damage. On small levels shield as necessary and WD in if you notice he doesn't jab much. If you see that he covers his aerials with jab, wait for it then if you're close enough SH oos with nair and you can dtilt or do something silly afterwards. Laser camping makes for an easy win, but comboing him and edge-guarding him properly can prove to be more effective.

You want to press L less than 20 frames before you hit the wall. The difference between SDI and ASDI is when you hit the wall. When You SDI, you can hit the wall, and hence tech, during the hitlag of the move you're being attacked with. ASDI happens on the first frame after hitlag is over.


ASDI is inferior for three reasons:
1. Since you only hit the wall after hitlag has ended, the timing for pressing L is harder. If the move's hitlag is x frames, then you would have 20-x frames to press L. For some moves, this makes it nearly impossible to tech.

2. ASDI happens at the same time that you starting flying away out of knockback. This means that on the first frame after hitlag has ended, your movement is the combined effect of knockback and ASDI. If the hit is strong enough, your net movement on the first frame will be away from the edge. Therefore, it is impossible to tech using ASDI at arbitrary percents.

3. You have to hugging the wall when you get hit, otherwise you won't be able to go far enough with ASDI to tech.


Because SDI allows you to tech during hitlag, it avoids all of these problems. The only disadvantage is that it is slightly harder to do.


What you should generally do to tech is this:

1. Up B and hug the wall. If you're in a position where this is impossible, just make sure you're as close
2. Press L just before you get hit. The closer the better, but anything between 5-15 frames works well.

3. As you get hit, do a upwards quarter circle towards the stage. So, if you're teching on the left edge, your control stick should start off on bottom right, and end up on the top right. Doing a quarter circle has three advantages over just smashing the stick towards the edge. First, it makes it easier to time, because as long as the moves hitlag overlaps with your quarter circle, you will get at least one SDI off. Second, It allows more than one SDI, so you can tech even if you're a little bit away from the wall. Third, if you miss the tech, your control stick will be positioned to input the proper survival DI for most moves.

4. hold up to walljump.

5. After you tech, you should either side b instantly to grab the edge, or wait and side b into your opponent in their lag, depending on what move they did. Against something like peach's downsmash, wait to side b, or you might tech one hit then get hit again right away. Against something like Falco's dair, side b immediately, or he will be able to hit you with a different move. If your opponent is at a high percent, and right next the edge, you can also bair after your walljump, and hit your opponent away from the edge. I wouldn't usually recommend the last option though.

This is so amazing I put it into a word document and into a smash folder I have full of really important information. Good read - I wasn't aware of most of this frame specific d.i. stuff.

 

[RaynEX]

Man, I really hope I can go. Honestly, I want to play Midwest dudes again.

Mike: So you'd need super weird spacing to make dair "flip" your opponent? hmm.

 

[EWC]

Glad I could help.

 

[RaynEX]

so EWC what city are you from? Have you entered any major tournies or played against any pros or anything like that? I don't know too much about you as a player.

 

[EWC]

I live in Boston. I've never been to any tournies, though I want to.

 

[PB&J]

i was playing fox today..boy am i looking better these days..cant wait til genesis

 

[Tomacawk]

Man, I really hope I can go. Honestly, I want to play Midwest dudes again.

Mike: So you'd need super weird spacing to make dair "flip" your opponent? hmm.

midwest has a really chill scene. No outspoken personalities like west coast or M2K caliber player like both coasts, but we get the job done nonetheless.
Mike, do you think you can get a video up of this?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Mass Madness on February 28th. :D

There are smashfests almost every week, and there are lots of other people in your area. We should play sometime.

 

[Roman.]

go to mdz's on saturday!

 

[halcyon.days]

Hmm.. a question about Fox vs Falco (but not what you think).

When Fox is getting shine combo'd how come there are some times when he just pops up (ie. he's not in the tumbling animation but in the "upright" falling posiiton") every once in awhile?

 

[Binx]

As far as the teching bit goes, I'm pretty sure ASDI happens the first frame you get hit, hence why they refer to it as automatic smash DI and not something else.

Other than that we agree on everything.

I think the only difference in the two is the number of inputs that can be done and difficulty obviously.

EDIT: Nevermind, just checked Doraki's guide, your right, wow wish I had known that before I've been teching wrong for years LOL, shows what one miss read can cause if you never bother to review it.

The Best DI Guide Ever

 

[ArcNatural]

I live in Boston. I've never been to any tournies, though I want to.

Did you say Boston? I live 10 minutes from Wellington station on the Orange Line.