Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Ryan-K]

Hmm.. a question about Fox vs Falco (but not what you think).

When Fox is getting shine combo'd how come there are some times when he just pops up (ie. he's not in the tumbling animation but in the "upright" falling posiiton") every once in awhile?

this usually happens if you dair fox then shine around 50ish

this happens with jabs on floaty characters, idk why it happens, but if you dair fox at like 50 dont shine utilt or better yet at around 50 just nair lol

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I tested this some time ago and it turns out that if you use a move that's decayed (by about 2 hits of the same move or more) while they're lying on the ground, they pop up with no stun.

If you're the one getting comboed, watch for situations where this might occur (really if the other Falco is sloppy at shine combos) and mash A when you think you'll get hit like that. If you're the one who's comboing, just remember to not use the same move 3 times in a row where possible or even better just hit them before they hit the ground.

 

[soap]

You want to press L less than 20 frames before you hit the wall. The difference between SDI and ASDI is when you hit the wall. When You SDI, you can hit the wall, and hence tech, during the hitlag of the move you're being attacked with. ASDI happens on the first frame after hitlag is over.


ASDI is inferior for three reasons:
1. Since you only hit the wall after hitlag has ended, the timing for pressing L is harder. If the move's hitlag is x frames, then you would have 20-x frames to press L. For some moves, this makes it nearly impossible to tech.

2. ASDI happens at the same time that you starting flying away out of knockback. This means that on the first frame after hitlag has ended, your movement is the combined effect of knockback and ASDI. If the hit is strong enough, your net movement on the first frame will be away from the edge. Therefore, it is impossible to tech using ASDI at arbitrary percents.

3. You have to hugging the wall when you get hit, otherwise you won't be able to go far enough with ASDI to tech.


Because SDI allows you to tech during hitlag, it avoids all of these problems. The only disadvantage is that it is slightly harder to do.


What you should generally do to tech is this:

1. Up B and hug the wall. If you're in a position where this is impossible, just make sure you're as close
2. Press L just before you get hit. The closer the better, but anything between 5-15 frames works well.

3. As you get hit, do a upwards quarter circle towards the stage. So, if you're teching on the left edge, your control stick should start off on bottom right, and end up on the top right. Doing a quarter circle has three advantages over just smashing the stick towards the edge. First, it makes it easier to time, because as long as the moves hitlag overlaps with your quarter circle, you will get at least one SDI off. Second, It allows more than one SDI, so you can tech even if you're a little bit away from the wall. Third, if you miss the tech, your control stick will be positioned to input the proper survival DI for most moves.

4. hold up to walljump.

5. After you tech, you should either side b instantly to grab the edge, or wait and side b into your opponent in their lag, depending on what move they did. Against something like peach's downsmash, wait to side b, or you might tech one hit then get hit again right away. Against something like Falco's dair, side b immediately, or he will be able to hit you with a different move. If your opponent is at a high percent, and right next the edge, you can also bair after your walljump, and hit your opponent away from the edge. I wouldn't usually recommend the last option though.

ya this was really cool.

do u have any specific tips on smash diing fox uair. Is some variation of quarter circle DI applicable here?

ive just been Diing the throw one way and smashing back the other way as i get hit and it works like half the time

 

[Doggalina]

How's DK64 as a Fox stage, specifically against Marth? Mogwai recommended learning it. It used to be my favorite stage to take Marths to as Falcon, but I haven't tried it as Fox. It has a really high cieling, but that's not a huge issue. The platform layout makes it way harder for Marth to edgeguard.

 

[RaynEX]

Wasn't the word Doggalina used excessively in a "Del the Funkee Homosapien" joint?

DK64 makes it hard for them to edge-guard because you've just gained like 20 new ways to recover. You can go really high, go for the edge or come from below at different angles. Problem is you can't tech fsmashes and dtilts so once you get knocked off you're ****ed. Another problem: you've just turned Marth into Ganon (i.e.: super heavy won't die at 80 from usmash mode activate)

Another problem: waveshines get jewed because of the slopes and the hitstun disappears and you get grabbed. Or something like that...I forget why waveshines don't work on slopes. Same **** happens on Brinstar and Corneria periodically.

One more problem: Marth can sort of stall with his side-b, so randomly they might luck-sack the barrel in tournament or something. Dayum, I'd be so mad if that happened.

The only true advantage Fox has here is speed, and because of how big the level is = campy dampy with lasers.

So if you want to camp and run away the whole time this is the level for you! Its most of the reason this level is good for Falcon. Gives him room to run and the barrel helps his horrid recovery.

 

[Shinku]

i get intimitaed when i play high level falcons. on sure shine spiking is the key, but its only good if i can get that captain in the position to even pull it off. no question really, just speaking my mind =)

note to self - laser camp more

 

[RaynEX]

lasering falcon is bad. He just runs up to you and its over.

Run around more.

 

[Shinku]

oh be gay. gotcha

 

[KirbyKaze]

Against Marth I'm sure you could do better than Kongo 64.

You could use Corneria, Rainbow Cruise...

Come on step it up Fox boards.

 

[halcyon.days]

Okay, one more question about SDI lol.

I thought you had to put the control-stick into the neutral position before SDI each time, I'm guessing this is false then? I mean, if you can SDI in multiple directions using quarter-circle DI then you shouldn't have to right?

Like, if I'm recovering with captain falcon you basically have to be holding towards the stage the entire time, or else you don't get any distance. Does this mean that right before I hit the edge I have to put the control stick back in neutral and then quarter-circle DI? Or can I just start the quarter-circle DI from whatever position I currently am holding on the control stick?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

You have to put it into another direction before you SDI in the same direction again. You can do this by either letting the Control Stick go back to neutral and then smash in the same direction again, or by switching between SDI's in different directions (which is what quarter circle DI does). In Perfect Control (1) there's a clip of Mario getting hit by Samus' charged shot. He switches SDI between up and up left or something like that (I don't quite remembr) and then SDI's to a eldge and techs it.

You have to do the SDI during hitlag, so it's no good to start the quarter circle before you get hit.

Also my **** new sig gets cut off by smashboards. I like my cute Fox showing promising signs of growing up to be an evil gay Fox that beats up innocent demo Kirbys like his dad.

Full thing. 7up is the crew I'm in lol.

 

[JonaDiaper]

wow this sounds really gay but that fox looks mad cute

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like my cute Fox showing promising signs of growing up to be an evil gay Fox that beats up innocent demo Kirbys like his dad.

We will genocide those little round ****ers. They've had it easy for far too long.

...

Wait.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hmmmm,.....


less genocide

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

We will genocide those little round ****ers. They've had it easy for far too long.

...

Wait.

If only your avatar wasn't removed.....

It would fit so perfectly.

 

[halcyon.days]

You have to put it into another direction before you SDI in the same direction again. You can do this by either letting the Control Stick go back to neutral and then smash in the same direction again, or by switching between SDI's in different directions (which is what quarter circle DI does). In Perfect Control (1) there's a clip of Mario getting hit by Samus' charged shot. He switches SDI between up and up left or something like that (I don't quite remembr) and then SDI's to a eldge and techs it.

You have to do the SDI during hitlag, so it's no good to start the quarter circle before you get hit.

Okay so let's say I'm recovering with Captain Falcon and I'm holding left. at the moment I can hit I can just roll it down (so it's pointing down and towards) and then roll it up for the quarter circle DI?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Okay so let's say I'm recovering with Captain Falcon and I'm holding left. at the moment I can hit I can just roll it down (so it's pointing down and towards) and then roll it up for the quarter circle DI?

Based on what I've read and have heard from other people, I would say yes. If you want to be sure though, ask more knowleadgable people like Magus. I'll try calling him.

magus magus magus Magus420 Magus 420 frame data awesome teching double stick pivoting

 

[JonaDiaper]

lmao thats so funny

also because i can,

Hiemie

lols

 

[Doggalina]

Against Marth I'm sure you could do better than Kongo 64.

You could use Corneria, Rainbow Cruise...

Come on step it up Fox boards.

I'm a big fan of Dreamland against Marths. Sure, the ceiling is high, but the platforms get rid of a lot of his options below you. And you can ledgetech. Corneria just doesn't work for me, but I haven't tried Cruise yet.

I practiced uthrow uairing against Jiggs, and I've found that it's easier if I use up A to up air when I do it. I did it against a lvl 6 because lvl 6 Jiggs throw out aerials as soon as possible. I also went into training mode in slo-mo and watched KDJ vs. Darc and it looks like you can jump right when Fox's arm comes down. Aside from uthrow uair and laser camping, what are some tips against Jiggs? For counterpicks, Pokemon Stadium and Corneria are best, right?

 

[Shök]

I'm not sure about counter-picking Jiggs.

If they get you off the edge, its over...​

 

[SpaceFalcon]

I'm not sure about counter-picking Jiggs.

If they get you off the edge, its over...​

Not really -_-

Mix up your DI's, DI towards them, DI straight down, Don't DI at all, stall a shine, tumble a bit after the first aerial and go really low.

I can keep going.

 

[Shök]

How can you DI when you're already offstage?

I'm referring to the situation in which all you can do is get back to the stage.

Illusion, Firefox...

But go ahead, keep going with you Jigg. tips.​

 

[RaynEX]

How can you DI when you're already offstage?

I'm referring to the situation in which all you can do is get back to the stage.

Illusion, Firefox...

But go ahead, keep going with you Jigg. tips.​

How do you d.i. when you're already offstage? You move the control stick to manipulate your trajectory, thats how.

If you're saying that Jiggs ***** Fox's super linear recoveries, then thats dumb...

because almost the entire smash cast ***** Fox's linear recovery. You don't have to be Jiggs to edge-guard Fox well. Just react and ****.

 

[Shök]

How do you d.i. when you're already offstage? You move the control stick to manipulate your trajectory, thats how.

If you're saying that Jiggs ***** Fox's super linear recoveries, then thats dumb...

because almost the entire smash cast ***** Fox's linear recovery. You don't have to be Jiggs to edge-guard Fox well. Just react and ****.

Yes, It's obvious to move the control stick to move towards the stage, that's not what I meant, though...

I'm well aware that almost every character can do well against Fox's recovery, I was just stating that Jiggs. can do a better job at that that other characters..

Since Jiggs. has multiple jumps, she can intercept Fox's firefox as soon as it starts.​

 

[SpaceFalcon]

First you stated it's impossible to survive jiggz edgeguarding, then you asked how to DI off the stage. Now you think Rayn is talking about firefoxing towards the stage to survive...

Less brawl, more melee IMO.

 

[Shök]

When I meant it was over if Jiggs. got you off stage, I didn't mean it literally...

Rayn said "linear" recovery.

He could be referring to both of Fox's recoveries...

Less brawl, more melee?

Heh, I'm not really a big fan of brawl.

Don't assume things you don't know over a little discussion, Spacefalcon.​

 

[Falcinho]

Srsly just don't always recover the same way >_>

and don't forget you can dodge onto the stage when your close or you can stall a bit with the shine like RaynEX said.

 

[Binx]

you have to accept that there are certain situations you WILL die in if you get put there, just do your best to not get into those situations and when you do choose the best option and hope they mess up.

Just vary your recovery enough so she can't just walk over and kill you everytime, sweetspot forward b's when she doesn't have time to get to you instead of using up b, or up b high up so she has to guess, if your below the stage and puff was near the edge and knows what they are doing, then yes you are probably dead, so come back and try your hardest and win after that.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

u must sweetspot forward b's

you can get rested out of them if you try to land on stage....and its very gay

recovering against puff in general sucks

 

[RaynEX]

I wish you could turn mid-illusion or curve your firefox. Something to the effect of Pika's up+b. lol that **** would be so broken.

You could uthrow to curved firefox and hit twice then combo.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

rofl that' be ridiculously broken... like be coming straight at your opponent then be like MINDGAME SON and curve sweetspot the ledge.

 

[EWC]

Haha oh wow. Take away the one thing that makes fox not completely broken.

 

[I.B]

nah he's still completely broken LOL

 

[DtJ Jungle]

like 100% broken.

he's so broken it'd be impossible to put him back together

XD.

/wrists.

 

[halcyon.days]

Hmm...

Had a smashfest today... The thing that always happens is that for the first... let's say 5~ish matches I'm really jittery and nervous and ****. Even if it's just FRIENDLIES. After a few games/matches it'll be like np but it's pretty annoying starting off really badly...

Will this go away the longer I play smash? I've only been playing for like 1/2 year now.

Also, playing against Samus sucks ****.

 

[EWC]

Everyone needs to warm up.

 

[bahamutz69]

question time!!

so i was wondering
whats everyones preference for shffld nairs
and not just do you use x or y

my question is
1. do you use x or y
2.(this is the real one) if u use y, what way do you use it?

when i was learning to use fox
i found i could short hop consistently when sliding my finger off the right corner of the y button
pretty much with the left end of my thumb

now i have enough thumb control to push the y button with the middle of my thumb fast enough to SH.
i noticed my nairs come out later when i use my old way.

just wondering :]
kinda a crepper question, im aware

 

[halcyon.days]

My "default" right hand position is where the tip of my thumb hovers over the Y button, with the bottom of the "joint" of the thumb hovering over the A button.

I don't slide my finger off, I just press it quickly. It doesn't really matter though. As you play Fox more and more, your fingers will become MUCH faster than they are when you start. Just remember that you're not restricted to any jump button. I use Y for shffling, X for wavedash/shining, and the control stick for really quick jumps out of shine.

 

[RaynEX]

Since I've started playing smash I've jumped using these methods:

First year of melee: Control stick for SHs, lasers and shffls. I noticed people were flying alot farther when they SHed and I was only covering like half that distance. I soon discovered it was because I wasn't SHing and holding my control stick in the direction I was jumped. So I would simply jump then float without d.i.ing in the direction I wanted to attack in.

then: sliding my thumb off the right side of X. But because it is on somewhat of a slope, my finger would get stuck on the edge of the button and I'd **** up

so: I used my thumb to slide off the Y button going upwards. Then I saw everyone + their moms tapping buttons to SH. So I decided to practice that with Y (because of its proximity to the B button)

so now: I can SH by tapping Y, X, and the control stick...and slide in a variety of strange ways.

So my advice to you would be to PRACTICE TAPPING EITHER X/Y. The thing people need to understand about shorthopping, is that it isn't how light/hard you press your jump button, it is how fast you press it. You can slam it as hard as you want, as long as you lift your thumb before the game registers the input as a full hop.

Oh, and sliding upwards on the Y button makes it harder to reach the B button while lasering.

 

[Lovage]

when i was a noob i jumped with up
but then i started learning how to play
but just kept jumping with up

so i use that for everything..but sometimes i use Y when i have to spam jump as fast as possible (recovering, chaingrabs etc) oh yea and i wavedash with Y too...but im trying to learn with up as well.
if i could do it all over again i would learn the game with Y. because you lose like minimum 1 frame of momentum when you have to jump with up in like a SHFFL nair or something..

in 64 i jump with the c button tho cuz its really really hard to short hop with the n64 analog stick

ALSO
how do you guys do JC usmash and grab and stuff
do some people use Y/X for it?