Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[CaliburChamp]

S Tier (Super Tier) From the heavens.
Meta Knight 10.0
Snake 9.9

A Tier (Top Tier) On top of the mountain.
Wario 9.7
Diddy Kong 9.6
Falco 9.6
King Dedede 9.5
Marth 9.4
Pikachu 9.3
Mr. Game & Watch 9.3

B Tier ( Very High Tier) Almost at the top of the mountain.
Olimar 8.9
Ice Climbers 8.7
Zero Suit Samus 8.5
ROB 8.2
Lucario 8.0

C Tier (High Tier) Higher than the middle part of the mountain.
Kirby 7.9
Toon Link 7.8
Pit 7.6
Donkey Kong 7.4
Luigi 7.4
Fox 7.3
Wolf 7.2
Peach 7.1
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both) 7.0

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue) 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Zelda 6.5
Shiek 6.3

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic 5.9
Bowser 5.8
Ike 5.7
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average) 5.6
Yoshi 5.4
Mario 5.2
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue) 5.0

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

F Tier (Worthless tier) Underground.
Solo Olimar 1.0

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

I'll continually keep updating this.

Compared to the new tier list 3.0
Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

 

[SnowballBob33]

How do you think that snake is better than MK?

Snake can get comboed*/ gimped/ chaingrabbed. Certain moves of his can be avoid with certain characters and DI. MK is priority, range, gimps hard, is much harder to deal with off the stage. Air camping>nade camping

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ness Lucas and Zelda above Sonic. L O L

 

[SmashChu]

Reading the arguments, the anti-ban one was a lot more thought out. It was very reasonable. The Pro-ban tried to appeal to other aspects and wasn't a very strong argument.

 

[SOVAman]

Reading the arguments, the anti-ban one was a lot more thought out. It was very reasonable. The Pro-ban tried to appeal to other aspects and wasn't a very strong argument.

Thanks for that statement

It completely benefits the discussion

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ugh... do you know why we aren't allowed to see what goes on in the BRoom? Pay attention to ANY high profile topic and we'll get Johnny Randomscrub complaining about something. Unfortunately when everything you think is public knowledge it becomes a hassle to even express your opinions without massive rebuttal from the peanut gallery. Suddenly someone starts making topics in GBD to respond to BRoom threads and there's a 2 thread argument going on. That slows down metagame development/ruleset deveopment and anything else that may go on back there. I used to be a big supporter of a publicy viewed but privately posted BRoom but I no longer think that would work. With Brawl's release we got an influx of new players who think they're experts on everything smash and we don't need a bunch of idiots running their mouths about stuff they don't really understand. If the BRoomers feel like posting their views to the public they will. Be glad that at least Spadefox is willing to and a lot of other people that are probably SBR material are here discussing the issue.




And also Don't Ban Meatknight.

 

[bobson]

Being in the SBR RIGHT NOW, I cannot share these statements he makes, and I'm totally not lying.

Well, gee, if only there was some way we could've found this out for ourselves, we'd've been able to call out his lies for what they were!

 

[Isatis]

This is a tier list thread?

 

[Master Raven]

Its nice knowing that I can visit this thread and witness intelligent conversation and relevant points from both sides. -_-

omg liek i agree with this i'm gonna repeatedly quote similar posts ad nauseam to let everyone know where i stand WHEEE

 

[jbandrew]

Reading the arguments, the anti-ban one was a lot more thought out. It was very reasonable. The Pro-ban tried to appeal to other aspects and wasn't a very strong argument.

This is your opinion ^, and it fails good sir. FAILS. The pro ban argument has already been stated to be the one with the better argument. VOTE PRO BAN NOW!!

 

[Tudor]

You might as well ban MK now because if you don’t, people who don’t play MK at all continue to complain and hate the game forever.
The reason it’s so hard to ban MK is because so many people do good with him and want him so stay solely for selfish reasons. By doing this they are killing brawl for everyone.
If MK doesn’t get banned now no one will be happy. If you do ban MK, the MK mains that had skill will pick up another character and still do good (maybe not AS good) and they will be happy too because they no longer face the criticism of the community.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

lol
Just sayin'

 

[SnowballBob33]

Lil B's sig is too gangsta
i hope yes can keep this momentum it has

 

[fkacyan]

This is your opinion ^, and it fails good sir. FAILS. The pro ban argument has already been stated to be the one with the better argument. VOTE PRO BAN NOW!!

SUBJECTIVITY! NONE OF THAT HERE!

Stop being silly.

 

[bobson]

Ugh... do you know why we aren't allowed to see what goes on in the BRoom? Pay attention to ANY high profile topic and we'll get Johnny Randomscrub complaining about something. Unfortunately when everything you think is public knowledge it becomes a hassle to even express your opinions without massive rebuttal from the peanut gallery. Suddenly someone starts making topics in GBD to respond to BRoom threads and there's a 2 thread argument going on. That slows down metagame development/ruleset deveopment and anything else that may go on back there. I used to be a big supporter of a publicy viewed but privately posted BRoom but I no longer think that would work. With Brawl's release we got an influx of new players who think they're experts on everything smash and we don't need a bunch of idiots running their mouths about stuff they don't really understand. If the BRoomers feel like posting their views to the public they will. Be glad that at least Spadefox is willing to and a lot of other people that are probably SBR material are here discussing the issue.

Mass ignorance goes on with any hot topic already, and the SBR have proven themselves more than capable of just ignoring the idiots anyway. Restricting it restricts it from both the random *******s and the capable, intelligent members who could actually make valid arguments.

 

[Matador]

Ugh... do you know why we aren't allowed to see what goes on in the BRoom? Pay attention to ANY high profile topic and we'll get Johnny Randomscrub complaining about something. Unfortunately when everything you think is public knowledge it becomes a hassle to even express your opinions without massive rebuttal from the peanut gallery. Suddenly someone starts making topics in GBD to respond to BRoom threads and there's a 2 thread argument going on. That slows down metagame development/ruleset deveopment and anything else that may go on back there. I used to be a big supporter of a publicy viewed but privately posted BRoom but I no longer think that would work. With Brawl's release we got an influx of new players who think they're experts on everything smash and we don't need a bunch of idiots running their mouths about stuff they don't really understand. If the BRoomers feel like posting their views to the public they will. Be glad that at least Spadefox is willing to and a lot of other people that are probably SBR material are here discussing the issue.

Don't we already ignore the scrubs? They say their opinion, we tell them they're wrong (or laugh uncontrollably first) then close their thread.

Either way, I just think it'd be nice to know what goes on, personally. Especially since I don't know of any Mario's back there. Their Weekly Character Discussion thread on the Mario boards was...disturbing...like Master Raven's sig...

Not because they underrated the character or anything...that's expected...it just seemed like they didn't know alot of things or that they were going off of his metagame from 2 months after release as opposed to the current Mario metagame.

 

[CaliburChamp]

One thing that makes me cringe is when a pro player says MK should be banned, when they beat MK's all the time. *cough* Fiction. Seems unjustified to me, and a dumb thing to say when you beat MK's players often. You guys know what I mean?

 

[PB&J]

so i was thinking..whats wrong with us brawl players..why do we complain so much about mk so much..we need a answer to this metaknight problem..ok lets ban him

banning metaknight wont solve anything..i think it just makes the brawl community look weak having to ban a character not unbeatable..if he would ally woudnt even come close to beating m2k with snake..but thats not the case..we all have seen icy players beat metaknights..ddd's from the south

wario players from the west and alabama beat metaknight

we have seen diddy kongs from the north give metaknights trouble

falcos and so on with multiple other characters

so

dont ban metaknight..hes not that much better than the other charaCTERS

and if u want to ban mk..it just makes the community look weak and if we want respect from other communities..banning mk is not the answer

 

[*_Echo_*]

One thing that makes me cringe is when a pro player says MK should be banned, when they beat MK's all the time. *cough* Fiction. Seems unjustified to me, and a dumb thing to say when you beat MK's players often. You guys know what I mean?

maybe he feels its better for the community, not himself >_>

 

[Nicole]

so i was thinking..whats wrong with us brawl players..why do we complain so much about mk so much..we need a answer to this metaknight problem..ok lets ban him

banning metaknight wont solve anything..i think it just makes the brawl community look weak having to ban a character not unbeatable..if he would ally woudnt even come close to beating m2k with snake..but thats not the case..we all have seen icy players beat metaknights..ddd's from the south

wario players from the west and alabama beat metaknight

we have seen diddy kongs from the north give metaknights trouble

falcos and so on with multiple other characters

so

dont ban metaknight..hes not that much better than the other charaCTERS

and if u want to ban mk..it just makes the community look weak and if we want respect from other communities..banning mk is not the answer

does it matter what we look like to other communities? who cares what they think? what's important is what WE as a community decide, and no one here, in THIS community, should be influenced by any outside opinions.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

One thing that makes me cringe is when a pro player says MK should be banned, when they beat MK's all the time. *cough* Fiction. Seems unjustified to me, and a dumb thing to say when you beat MK's players often. You guys know what I mean?

I say this with the most possible respect:

You are dumb. Some people are capable of thinking objectively and of thinking beyond how a situation personally affects them. I play a character with one of the more favorable MK match-ups in the game and if anything, banning him could affect my character in a negative way, but I still want him banned. Why? Because although it doesn't matter to me/might be bad for me, I care about the game as a whole.

 

[jbandrew]

SUBJECTIVITY! NONE OF THAT HERE!

Stop being silly.

D: BUT BUT! *whispers* Ban MK... at least just to see how things go without him. A good 2-3 months would do the metagame well me thinks, and it would do the community well too .

 

[Suspect]

Wow

So i didnt know i can click on the nummbers to see who voted what

im pretty surprised, i wont drop names though.

 

[Overclassed]

And to think.

This is over the best way to play a game :sigh:

 

[kozimoto]

true and because he can be CPed he shouldnt be banned

I dont think he should be banned I just think he's the best character.

I understand hes bad on stages that require alot of movement but its doesnt crush him.

As for character Counter Picking i wanna take the best snake player (ally,souther) vs the best Olimar player (?) and DDD player (?) or any other character for that matter that is said to have an even or good MU on snake. (excluding MK) and see who wins.

I honestly think ally or souther would win and I would think its safe to say that the best player of each character should all be around the same skill level.

 

[MarKO X]

And to think.

This is over the best way to play a game :sigh:

best is subjective.
please try to keep your posts objective.......



who am I kidding.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Ban him now. Then after a few months, Un ban him.

Then right a book.

 

[Tudor]

Honestly the reason i chose to ban MK is not because i have a problem fighting MK necessarily.

I will space myself, play smart, outsmart and spike them. This is pretty hard especially offstage because i can get knocked out of my up-b with nair or dair and I can't bomb because MK will just dair until he hits me, but i like a challenge, it helps me get better.

And when MK mains see I can do this here is what happens, tornado spam.

That's a completely different story. Samus is tall, has little priority, and really can't do almost anything against a pro MK player spamming tornado.

If there is a move someone can spam when they are losing that you can't do anything about... maybe they should be banned.

I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me but I can say it is the reason why I lose at OVER 50% of the tourney's i go to. The rest of the time I play badly or get outskilled.

 

[Sosuke]

*sigh* Do you guys read what you type half the time?

 

[Overclassed]

Ban him now. Then after a few months, Un ban him.

Then right a book.

Entitled "Mindgames: The True Story"

 

[ShadowLink84]

One thing that makes me cringe is when a pro player says MK should be banned, when they beat MK's all the time. *cough* Fiction. Seems unjustified to me, and a dumb thing to say when you beat MK's players often. You guys know what I mean?

You're lack of insight is distubing.
It can be many things.
For one he amy feel that even though he beats top level meta knight's, he feels its because they dont know the matchup. That he defeated the player and not Meta knight, and that once those metaknight users figure out the mathcup, they would ****.

The fact that you are talking out of your *** and criticizing someone who is known for their knowledge and skill says alot about you.

 

[Deadweight]

does it matter what we look like to other communities? who cares what they think? what's important is what WE as a community decide, and no one here, in THIS community, should be influenced by any outside opinions.

This
10 this
Im sick and tired of the argument: DONT BAN MK CAUSE THEN MELEE/SF4/ COMMUNITY WILL THINKS BARLWS A JOKE.

1) They already think we are a joke. Melee Elitism is allready running rampant (AIB Anti-Ban Group anyone?), You can't go to a thread in which there isn't some melee troll saying "LOL PLAY MELEE"
2) Why should we care what other communities think. Our community is doing far better than both SF4 and Melee atm population wise, so they can go ahead and cry about how our game is a joke, but when it comes down to brass tacks, our community > theres.

/thread

 

[Matador]

2) Why should we care what other communities think. Our community is doing far better than both SF4 and Melee atm population wise, so they can go ahead and cry about how our game is a joke, but when it comes down to brass tacks, our community > theres.

/thread

.....Is that true???

 

[Flayl]

Honestly the reason i chose to ban MK is not because i have a problem fighting MK necessarily.

I will space myself, play smart, outsmart and spike them. This is pretty hard especially offstage because i can get knocked out of my up-b with nair or dair and I can't bomb because MK will just dair until he hits me, but i like a challenge, it helps me get better.

And when MK mains see I can do this here is what happens, tornado spam.

That's a completely different story. Samus is tall, has little priority, and really can't do almost anything against a pro MK player spamming tornado.

If there is a move someone can spam when they are losing that you can't do anything about... maybe they should be banned.

I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me but I can say it is the reason why I lose at OVER 50% of the tourney's i go to. The rest of the time I play badly or get outskilled.

Did you think of maybe, just maybe, choosing a secondary?

You're proving my hunch right =/

 

[aeghrur]

This
10 this
Im sick and tired of the argument: DONT BAN MK CAUSE THEN MELEE/SF4/ COMMUNITY WILL THINKS BARLWS A JOKE.

1) They already think we are a joke. Melee Elitism is allready running rampant (AIB Anti-Ban Group anyone?), You can't go to a thread in which there isn't some melee troll saying "LOL PLAY MELEE"
2) Why should we care what other communities think. Our community is doing far better than both SF4 and Melee atm population wise, so they can go ahead and cry about how our game is a joke, but when it comes down to brass tacks, our community > theres.

/thread

No.
SF community is HUGE.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Uh, Brawl is not doing better than SF4. Evo had over 600 SF4 entrants. Unless your talking about SF4 console

also melee isnt very far behind us. genesis anyone?

edit: others beat me to it

 

[Sosuke]

Did you think of maybe, just maybe, choosing a secondary?

You're proving my hunch right =/

Yes, because he should have to use MK against MK.

 

[Red Arremer]

No.
SF community is HUGE.

HUEG LIEK AN XBOX!

Spoiler

...sorry I couldn't resist. :|

 

[Deadweight]

.....Is that true???

Genesis Melle Single Entrants: 290
Genesis Melee doubles entrants: 103
Genesis Brawl Single Entrants: 292
Genesis Brawl Double Entrants: 108

 

[Flayl]

Yes, because he should have to use MK against MK.

MK, Snake, Wario, Diddy Kong, ICs, take your pick. Better than refusing to adapt.