Falco's Match-Ups IMO

[swordsaint]

Anyone who thinks Bowser doesn't get ***** by Falco is silly. He struggles with lasers, gets grabbed easy, and tbh I'm not even sure he can survive the chain grab > spike if you do it at the full percent. Even if he can, Bowser's recovery is so bad it'd just result in another spike straight away it's so easy on Bowser.

@ Da K.I.D - I believe you're referring to me when you talk about the guy who mentioned Pika's not as bad. <3 Good to see a possible new Falco.

@ MMM - Seriously? Don't be silly man. Below 21% we can footstool out the down throw chain grab. We can avoid the FTHROW chaingrab simply by camping the ledges until 16% or so. (Don't wanna get gayed by Pikachu doing a quick pummel to 21%) And if they decide to duck lasers we have run off lasers to stop this.

The matchups all about who gets the grab first. Falco dittos are even right? Despite that whoever get's the first grab practically wins? It's almost the same for Pikachu, don't suck, get the grab, get the percent lead, they lose their chaingrab because they don't wanna be platformed camped and lose by timeout. So they attack you on the platform. After about 50% or so, THEY CAN'T do the dthrow chaingrab BECAUSE IT HASN'T STALED enough.

Once that's done, we have a good advantage with our overall superior character.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I agree with the above post completely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx3W8MYpIbI

I know pikachu pretty well, and the next time I play get the chance, I plan to mm esam with falco this time.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I dunno, pretty sure ESAM thinks this matchup is terrible for Falco too :\

It's not the same as a Falco ditto AT ALL because we don't kill Pikachu with a spike...

 

[da K.I.D.]

Oh i know what he thinks, im just saying I know how pikachu works, and I dont think the match up is that bad.

And to be honest, at this point in the metagame, you really shouldnt be killing anybody with a spike. At least out of a CG.

 

[swordsaint]

You can Falco though, Falco's really bad against his own chaingrab ironically.

And MMM, I'm not saying it's the same? Where did you get that? I said it was similar In that whoever gets the grab first get's the advantage in the matchup.

I'd be willing to bet that ESAM thinks it's terrible for a couple of reasons, namely that Falco's have the mindset it's practically unwinnable and are unwilling to play the match up as well as the fact that if they do play the matchup, they don't know enough about it or don't play it enough to have the experience in it because of that...fear.

Their chaingrab is annoying for sure. No one's doubting that, I'm merely pointing out that it's avoidable, and then neutralised. Hell, their chaingrab doesn't even kill us. Pikachu's light, he doesn't **** us so much (outside of the chaingrab) that even if we do screw up it's impossible to bring it back.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Oh i know what he thinks, im just saying I know how pikachu works, and I dont think the match up is that bad.

And to be honest, at this point in the metagame, you really shouldnt be killing anybody with a spike. At least out of a CG.

Oh of course. Our CG > Spike definitely should not lead to death for anyone except Falco and Wolf. I constantly say that because it seems like a lot of people are somehow still unaware of that fact.

That was my whole point though, it was mentioned that Pika vs Falco is "like a Falco ditto because whoever gets the first grab wins"... but that's not the case because we don't 0-death Pika from our grab... we hardly do anything to him at all.

 

[swordsaint]

Ugh MMM. You completely missed the fact that if we get out chaingrab on Pikachu BEFORE he gets his. He loses his chaingrab potential because we can platform camp. THEY CANNOT chaingrab us starting at 50% or or more, because of this, they are forced to hit us, and lose their chaingrab. And without Pikachu having a chaingrab, I'd say the matchup would be in our favour. We can play Falco how we want to at this point, without fear of a chaingrab, because they've damaged us so they don't get timed out.

If we get the first kill, we have an easier time getting the next chaingrab to remove the next stocks chaingrab on us.

It's like this.

Falco - 0 > 21% = stay near a ledge, we don't want to get fthrow in to a dthrow chaingrab, and this way we can run off lasers if pikachu doesn't approach, or have an easier (safer) time trying to grab if pikachu does approach.

Falco - 21 > 50(ish)% = use the platforms. If you got the grab before pikachu they're on 50 to 60%. They are forced to hit us removing the chaingrab.

Falco - 50+% = pikachu has lost their chaingrab, without the threat of that looming over our heads we can play Falco properly. Hopefully get the first kill.

If Falco get's first blood = We are outside of chaingrab percents, while pikachu is inside theirs. This means our job of removing our next stocks chaingrab becomes more simple, because pikachu is still trying to get the kill.

Additionally, we don't have to let them hit us while we're camping the platforms. Rack up as much damage on them while on the platforms as possible. Falco's not (too) terrible from above, if you can read pikachu properly.

 

[Bloodcross]

Falco vs Pikachu is even.

 

[da K.I.D.]

also, honestly, no player, or character should be dying from a CG to spike.

Its called SDI and its not that difficult.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

If we camp a platform, all they have to do is hit us once or twice to around twenty and then just d-throw... how do they lose their CG if we platform camp? I don't see it...

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but having to do all of that makes our options extremely limited, and one mistake puts us over 100% for free... pretty much the essence of what a bad matchup is.

 

[swordsaint]

if we camp the platform once pikachu's at 50 or so, if they dont hit us past 50 THEY WILL GET TIMED OUT..

You do that 50+% with a single grab, much like theirs.

I'll say it like this

Pikachus chaingrab = 90-100%

Falcos chaingrab = 50-60% + the removal of pikachus chaingrab via camping platforms. It's at a cost of about 50% to us too. but at least we're not at 90, and can now fight back

 

[da K.I.D.]

If you know that all pikachu is trying to do is grab you, its not hard to not get grabbed.

If the pikachu is going to intentionally limit his own options to: something that sets up into a grab, us limiting our own options to 'anything that doesnt involve leaving the platforms' isnt really a big deal.

 

[swordsaint]

Pretty much what KID said.

the only thing is, we're camping the platforms once pikachu has been hit enough to 50.

the only time we should camp the platforms before that is if we screw up and take 20 damage before we get our grab.

in the end, the first stock if we pull it off, basically both characters will end up starting at 50%. but that soon equates to us having advantages in the next stocks providing we get pikachus first stock

it's really simple, maybe im just bad with words.

 

[Orion*]

also, honestly, no player, or character should be dying from a CG to spike.

Its called SDI and its not that difficult.

sdi is limited to the amount of csticks on your controller

 

[da K.I.D.]

SDI is limited to the amount of inputs you can put in on your control stick. Which isnt really as limited as one might believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgDF4YyFUBI

 

[Chuee]

He also did ****ty against me because atm in time Tyr was practiced and one of the best Lucases in the country and he was one of my training partners, lol
You played Marth against me =/

That being said...Chuee if you go to SiiS3 I'll play you again and test a bunch of stuff with you. The MU is definitely 65:35 but if you think you know some things that can prove otherwise, do it LOL
Uh, might go to that. Anyways, last time I remembered you saying it was 60-40. Oh and I basically agreed with everything Larry said, outranging and all that stuff, but I just don't think outranging Lucas and being able to kill him from a grab 120% makes it a hard counter. Half the cast can do that to him.

Ness & Lucas:

I get what you're saying about the Ness/Lucas grab release stuff, but I honestly don't feel like it matters much because they are both extremely difficult to grab. I don't feel like having a grab release gives us an extra advantage since it's so hard to grab them to begin with.

I've played against FAE a lot recently and I definitely do not think it is in any way easy to grab Lucas especially. Additionally, you can hardly camp either of them, especially Lucas. His magnet heals for so much it's insane... Sometimes those matchups feel almost dead even to me, it's hard to say though because there are so few Ness's and Lucas's, much less good ones.

This.

"Location: Kentucky"

We should have just looked at that and immediately ignore him a while ago.

Funny, because I remember almost beating your mk with Lucas online.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[da K.I.D.]

bloodcross could beat m2k TONIGHT, and lose to my grandmother TOMORROW if I trash talked him hard enough.

you > BC on wifi = me not impressed.

 

[Chuee]

lol I know wifi means nothing.
Just said that because Im trying to be like my hero BPC.

 

[Orion*]

SDI is limited to the amount of inputs you can put in on your control stick. Which isnt really as limited as one might believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgDF4YyFUBI

no its not, learn to roll your thumbs faster

 

[DEHF]

@MMM the chain grab on Marth 4 dash grabs, then 2 boost grabs.

Falco is not that easy to Juggle, he has one of the fastest fall speeds in the game. The only way you can be juggled so easily is if you're constantly DIing into them.

Pikachu can't do the chain grab with an unstale down throw from 50 ish and at the mid/high 40s he can only get get 2 or 3, which isn't too bad.

@Mav why do you think Falco Olimar is even?

Does anyone know if Hrnut has play Esam?

 

[Shaky]

@DEHF: Hrnut hasn't played Esam yet, even though they live in the same state haha. And personally I think the Falco-Ness matchup is 60-40 in Falco's advantage. FOW is the real Falco expert though, he's played SK92 countless times so he must have a good gist of the matchup. There are no exceptional ACTIVE (TommyG isn't active and Xaltis isn't quite there yet) Falcos in the state of Florida, but from playing you and Kismet I think it's 60:40. The way I see it, Falco-Ness is kinda similar to other Falco matchups where if you get grabbed below 40% it messes the opponent up pretty badly (Snake???). If Ness were easy to grab (mine isn't anyway) I could easily see the matchup as high as 70-30, but it's all about how you play those first few seconds of every stock that determines the outcome of the match.

 

[Bloodcross]

He said almost. Pointless case.

Also kid goggles is a true p*ssy. Win matches your own way you scrub. Oh wait you can't cause your horrible and have no other means of winning. Beating lie means **** cuz he's horrible too, nah mean?

u funny ***

 

[da K.I.D.]

on some realness, how does lie beat anybody?

also, I never said I was good BC, I just said that im better than bad people like you
=P

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Needz tips on the Falco Ganon matchup its actually relevant in NE.

 

[MrEh]

I remember Mr. Eh saying Bowser vs Falco was even in 08 hehe.

I remember saying how Bowser/MK was 45-55 back in 08 as well. Good times.

tbh I'm not even sure he can survive the chain grab > spike if you do it at the full percent.

He can.

Bowser's recovery is so bad it'd just result in another spike straight away it's so easy on Bowser.

Depends if the Bowser knows how to recover or not. The 2nd spike, a footstool, or even an edgehog is never guaranteed. It's a rock/paper/scissors game involving the timing of Bowser's 2nd jump and upB.

 

[da K.I.D.]

shoot lots of lasers.

roll away from the dairs

spotdodge the side b.

dont approach.

you havejust defeated the king of evil

 

[M@v]

@ Larry

It might be personal bias without me realizing, I'm naturally bad at the mu >_> , but looking at it it seems falco cant do much up close besides jab and dair. Long distance and offstage we win though.

Hows the cg on olimar work exactly? Even when I try to buffer they can get out :3

 

[Denzi]

Hows the cg on olimar work exactly? Even when I try to buffer they can get out :3

Boost grabs.

And I also find Oli tougher than that; 50:50 sounds better to me >_<

 

[clowsui]

@chuee correction i used marth against you game 2, i fought you in pools you took me to delfino, and i would still go marth on that stage given the chance. delfino can suck my big fat tailfeather.

also the last time you talked to me was when my ground game wasn't nearly as sophisticated

on the olimar note it depends on the style tbh, i think larry's style doesn't work vs campy olimars at all, unless he can provide me solutions that show otherwise lol
eh pikachu i'll play that MU some more and get back to you guys on it...kid and scoot provide some interesting arguments

 

[Darkmusician]

I don't know why I put 70-30, I'm sure I put 65-35. Mr. Eh is by far the best bowser I played and probably the best Bowser out there atm, he showed me how devastating Bowser's grab release shenanigans are.

Bowser Falco is doable, but Bowser gets wrecked very hard because he's so big and has trouble getting around lasers and side b.

Chadtoogood.

 

[Teh Future]

falco mk 91-1 falcos adv.

imo

your opinion is wrong

 

[Bloodcross]

lol kid love this guy

Anyway, Ganon is easy Yume. You can literally double jab him across the stage lol. Every move results him in endless landing lag (except for Dair). Too easy.

 

[swordsaint]

I not only like KID. I love him.

I just noticed he has a Kingdom Hearts avy.

Wanna get married?

 

[DEHF]

@Clowsui shield the purple and jab the rest

 

[-LzR-]

About the MK MU... Are the grab release to DACUS or BDACUS guaranteed on air release?

 

[DEHF]

About the MK MU... Are the grab release to DACUS or BDACUS guaranteed on air release?

Yeah they are

 

[Chuee]

@chuee correction i used marth against you game 2, i fought you in pools you took me to delfino, and i would still go marth on that stage given the chance. delfino can suck my big fat tailfeather.

What............I'm pretty sure you went Marth both games, and I took you to Norfair ,_,

 

[Denzi]

What............I'm pretty sure you went Marth both games, and I took you to Norfair ,_,

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS.

Really.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol kid love this guy

<3<3<3

I not only like KID. I love him.

I just noticed he has a Kingdom Hearts avy.

Wanna get married?

<3<3<3

It feels like thats where theyre going with our characters in the games anyway lol

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS.

Really.

<3<3<3
what he said

also, how did you get the moving title under youre name? shiz is ballerific.

 

[pulse131]

even with marth and barely beating peach are the ones that get me.