Don't Approach: Melee's Flaw Dissected

[Mew2King]

I ruined the game cuz I'm defensive? Ken's style sucks and is obsolete vs a good opponent in today's metagame. He would get ***** trying to do that today vs top players. Literally the only thing he does to "approach" is SH nair, and I took advantage of that at MLG and beat him. 3-2, but the games I won were very solid and games i lost were close. Marth cannot be played offensively and successfully, unless you are MUCH better than your opponent, and/or they are making mistakes. Same with Sheik. Fox/Falco can be played offensively because they are fast (fox), have lasers (falco), and can shine, giving them the advantage in pressure and pressure mixups. Peach can approach by doing early fair to get near the opponent or hitting their shield with an aerial then guessing the mixup, because she has strong punishes and little lag but good shield stun from this position. Pikachu can approach because he is fast and SH nair goes across the stage and lands behind people (with little landing lag as well). It heavily depends what character you are playing.

I would keep attacking shields too if I knew I had frame advantage (and practiced enough to not mess up my tech skill)

I'd probably play even more defensive in the future tbh.

 

[Charlesz]

I ruined the game cuz I'm defensive? Ken's style sucks and is obsolete vs a good opponent in today's metagame. He would get ***** trying to do that today vs top players. Literally the only thing he does to "approach" is SH nair, and I took advantage of that at MLG and beat him. 3-2, but the games I won were very solid and games i lost were close. Marth cannot be played offensively and successfully, unless you are MUCH better than your opponent, and/or they are making mistakes. Same with Sheik. Fox/Falco can be played offensively because they are fast (fox), have lasers (falco), and can shine, giving them the advantage in pressure and pressure mixups. Peach can approach by doing early fair to get near the opponent or hitting their shield with an aerial then guessing the mixup, because she has strong punishes and little lag but good shield stun from this position. Pikachu can approach because he is fast and SH nair goes across the stage and lands behind people (with little landing lag as well). It heavily depends what character you are playing.

I would keep attacking shields too if I knew I had frame advantage (and practiced enough to not mess up my tech skill)

I'd probably play even more defensive in the future tbh.

You ruined the game. Even Hbox approaches more than you. LOL ***.

 

[Big_R]

I ruined the game cuz I'm defensive? Ken's style sucks and is obsolete vs a good opponent in today's metagame. He would get ***** trying to do that today vs top players. Literally the only thing he does to "approach" is SH nair, and I took advantage of that at MLG and beat him. 3-2, but the games I won were very solid and games i lost were close. Marth cannot be played offensively and successfully, unless you are MUCH better than your opponent, and/or they are making mistakes. Same with Sheik. Fox/Falco can be played offensively because they are fast (fox), have lasers (falco), and can shine, giving them the advantage in pressure and pressure mixups. Peach can approach by doing early fair to get near the opponent or hitting their shield with an aerial then guessing the mixup, because she has strong punishes and little lag but good shield stun from this position. Pikachu can approach because he is fast and SH nair goes across the stage and lands behind people (with little landing lag as well). It heavily depends what character you are playing.

I would keep attacking shields too if I knew I had frame advantage (and practiced enough to not mess up my tech skill)

I'd probably play even more defensive in the future tbh.

oh m2k you are full of the johns.

just ASPIRE to be more offensive. you're pretty good. make it happen. i know this game is basically dont make that first move but i have more respect for people who push the action. Anderson Silva just drops his hands. I love watchign that guy and he's all about countering. Doing SOMETHING to push the action is what's up.

Of course no one has to play for my respect. I just think it's possible to wreck people and play that way.

Let's reduce the time limit to 5 minutes. Prob solved?????

for the record I think brawl probably hurt melee's approach game pretty badly as well

 

[crush]

how is changing the timer to 5 minutes going to solve the problem of people refusing to approach?

 

[Dark_Crono]

i know you guys have been discussing this for a while now but why you guys compare Mvc3 with Melee?.

 

[EPsilon933]

how is changing the timer to 5 minutes going to solve the problem of people refusing to approach?

When your opponent has the lead, you have to legitly approach to take back the lead

 

[The Star King]

Uh, but a shorter time limit encourages whoever's in the lead to camp because it's easier to time the opponent out >___>

 

[EPsilon933]

Uh, but a shorter time limit encourages whoever's in the lead to camp because it's easier to time the opponent out >___>

8 minutes is the same as no timer at all. You can wait and approach when you want to and you'll be fine

 

[Deleted member]

The advice in this thread is unusually bad, even for MD. ESPECIALLY anything directed at m2k lol.

This game is campy. So is ssb64. So is brawl. Welcome to smash.

 

[Mew2King]

im gonna start trying to time ppl out to see if i can some time, just like hbox vs armada.

 

[Pi]

@above 2

'back in my day we had to walk 40 miles up hill in the snow to get to tournaments'

 

[danieljosebatista]

Too much hating on m2k imo. He didn't "ruin" the game, he contributed to its progression.

 

[Armada]

Change the timer is stupid.

A lot of MU is really slow cause they have not many ways to appraoch or combo each other. I haven´t heard anyone say anything bad from the sets from first Genesis between me and Mango.

One of the matches was almost 7 min without camping.

Change the timer makes this game stupid cause you have to rush in cause you have no time. Then this game will not be as good as usuall cause even less chars will be able to play with pretty much.

 

[Beat!]

M2K, I love watching your defensive genius wreck ****. From the most ridiculously disadvantageous positions sometimes. Never sell your soul to all dem haters who don't appreciate your play style.







... and play more Marth :D

 

[Jolteon]

oh m2k you are full of the johns.

just ASPIRE to be more offensive. you're pretty good. make it happen. i know this game is basically dont make that first move but i have more respect for people who push the action. Anderson Silva just drops his hands. I love watchign that guy and he's all about countering. Doing SOMETHING to push the action is what's up.

Of course no one has to play for my respect. I just think it's possible to wreck people and play that way.

Let's reduce the time limit to 5 minutes. Prob solved?????

for the record I think brawl probably hurt melee's approach game pretty badly as well

I was just going to play to win at my next tournament so that I could have some cash spare, but now that I know that Big_R will respect me more if I play aggressively I think I'll do that instead.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I haven´t heard anyone say anything bad from the sets from first Genesis between me and Mango.

thats because half of these people think mango is god and saying anything that could even be interpreted as negative toward him, is practically a federal offense.

 

[ShroudedOne]

thats because half of these people think mango is god and saying anything that could even be interpreted as negative toward him, is practically a federal offense.

I disagree.

That's because that set was AMAZING. I watched that 7 minutes match like any other, and enjoyed every second. It's funny to note that it almost went to time, but didn't, and it wasn't something like Pink Shinobi vs Hungrybox (no offense to either of them).

 

[Mew2King]

i think its a little of both tbh ^

 

[Deleted member]

@above 2

'back in my day we had to walk 40 miles up hill in the snow to get to tournaments'

One time I went to a tournament in Cleveland Ohio in January and I had to take a greyhound bus but the bus station was closed so I slept in the snow in the parking lot until 5 AM.

So yeah, suck it.

 

[The Star King]

8 minutes is the same as no timer at all. You can wait and approach when you want to and you'll be fine

Uh, no, because you're forced to approach eventually. And people will camp more often with a shorter time limit. Can't tell if trolling...

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

One time I went to a tournament in Cleveland Ohio in January and I had to take a greyhound bus but the bus station was closed so I slept in the snow in the parking lot until 5 AM.

So yeah, suck it.

Similar story: For HERB 3, I took a Greyhound from Charlottesville, VA to NC (I wanna say Greensboro?). Like a 2 hour drive but of course a 13 hour bus ride (it zigzagged every which way across virginia & NC before getting to greensboro). Normally I just drive everywhere, but my old car wasn't working anymore and I had yet to buy my new one. The whole car situation had made me miss out on smash for like 2 months; I was seriously itching for some Melee, so 13 hours was an easy price to pay.

The ensuing chaos not so much. My bus got dropped off at a station about 10 hours into my ride, and we were told to take a connecting fare. Well, it was like 4 AM and the station was closed, but the driver assured us the connecting bus would be there in 5 mins. So we stood and waited, outside the station in the freezing cold. As time passed by, the situation got worse and worse. Kids were crying, no one was even sure what state we were even in, and from what we could tell, the station looked more abandoned than functional; it looked like it hadn't been used in years. The station was literally in the middle of nowhere so we had no buildings to go in, and no shelter to take. No one had a smartphone to be able to GPS our location and call someone to pick us up, and you could walk a mile around and not be able to tell where we were. Our tickets didn't include our connecting stations, and greyhound wasn't picking up when we called them to ask.

3 and a half hours. 3 and a half hours was how long we were standing. It took that long for the bus to get there, paired with a driver who tried his hardest to act sympathetic, as if this hadn't happened a hundred times before.

Needless to say, I couldn't even function at the tournament. I'm pretty sure I slept through half of it in a corner. I paid an extra 70 bucks to take the train back, and by god it was glorious.

Moral of the story: NEVER TAKE GREYHOUND TO A TOURNAMENT

 

[Battlecow]

^^ Best cold hands johns ever

 

[Mike G]

LOL CrimsonBlur and Umbreon.

Try taking a greyhound 4 days to and from NYC to Norcal.

Long story short, what started out as a simple plane ride to TG5 ended up to be one of the greatest adventures ever with Wes and Hein. Almost half of our crew planned on getting plan tickets for the tournament, but for some reason(I can't remember why exactly) prices sky rocketed everywhere. Wes was still dead set on going so that's when he brought up the idea of taking greyhound to all the way to California. I looked at him like he was crazy but it actually sounded legit when he mentioned that prices were 119 round trip. Hein and I were the only ones to step up to this challenge since Hein had arrangements to spend time with his uncle in norcal for a month anyway and I was on summer break. We all stocked up on coolers, filled with capri suns and sandwiches on wonder bread for the trip I'll never forget. LOL I'd definitely go into more detail about what we saw on that trip but I'm saving it for my "history of a smasher" thingy whenever I get to it. lol

 

[Bones0]

LOL CrimsonBlur and Umbreon.

Try taking a greyhound 4 days to and from NYC to Norcal.

Long story short, what started out as a simple plane ride to TG5 ended up to be one of the greatest adventures ever with Wes and Hein. Almost half of our crew planned on getting plan tickets for the tournament, but for some reason(I can't remember why exactly) prices sky rocketed everywhere. Wes was still dead set on going so that's when he brought up the idea of taking greyhound to all the way to California. I looked at him like he was crazy but it actually sounded legit when he mentioned that prices were 119 round trip. Hein and I were the only ones to step up to this challenge since Hein had arrangements to spend time with his uncle in norcal for a month anyway and I was on summer break. We all stocked up on coolers, filled with capri suns and sandwiches on wonder bread for the trip I'll never forget. LOL I'd definitely go into more detail about what we saw on that trip but I'm saving it for my "history of a smasher" thingy whenever I get to it. lol

What a ****ing TEASE of a story intro, bro. Honestly... that was just cruel. >_>

 

[KishPrime]

I like to approach via bus. No fatal flaw there.

I bused to MLG Championships 1 NY and MLG DC...about 24 hoursish if I remember right.

 

[Pi]

frickin old people man
get w/ the times
i travel, talk, gps, surf porn sites, cyber, browse swf, all on my 4gs hoverboard-smartphone3.74
can't wait for the 3.94 version, teleportation woot

 

[Armada]

da K.I.D: I agree =)

ShroudedOne: Im glad you liked to see the matches but my post wasn´t trying to actually prove how fun/boring the matches were.

I just used this matche to pretty much prove why 5 min is impossible to have in a game like this.

 

[Jonas]

Public transportation in USA sucks ***. No wonder everyone and their dog takes their car everywhere, even when they don't have passengers.

 

[ShroudedOne]

da K.I.D: I agree =)

ShroudedOne: Im glad you liked to see the matches but my post wasn´t trying to actually prove how fun/boring the matches were.

I just used this matche to pretty much prove why 5 min is impossible to have in a game like this.

No, it wasn't your point. I was just telling da K.I.D. that the reason that no one complained might very well have more to do with the fact that it was a good match, not because people think that Mango is god (although there probably is some of that in there, to be honest...)

 

[SSBMLahti]

Mango *****

****

 

[Big_R]

The advice in this thread is unusually bad, even for MD. ESPECIALLY anything directed at m2k lol.

This game is campy. So is ssb64. So is brawl. Welcome to smash.

hey why not just diss everything and not try to come up with ANY potential way make it less campy? i admitted it's campy i said "push the action." at least i'm saying something other than what this entire thread is. johns foreverrrrr

im gonna start trying to time ppl out to see if i can some time, just like hbox vs armada.

great, go the other direction....

Too much hating on m2k imo. He didn't "ruin" the game, he contributed to its progression.

i;m glad he's so committed to it's progression especially when he says

im gonna start trying to time ppl out to see if i can some time, just like hbox vs armada.

that's gonna JOLT the scene

I was just going to play to win at my next tournament so that I could have some cash spare, but now that I know that Big_R will respect me more if I play aggressively I think I'll do that instead.

it would probably come off bad if you did it so you may as well camp cause i wouldn't care about ur life either way.


let's only play yoshi's that place is the ****

 

[Mew2King]

LOL i wanna see if i can do it

 

[Jolteon]

it would probably come off bad if you did it so you may as well camp cause i wouldn't care about ur life either way.


let's only play yoshi's that place is the ****

But you don't understand, now I finally have the tools necessary to gain the approval of Big_R.

 

[Bing]

LOL @ getting excited to try to time people out to win :S

 

[Deleted member]

hey why not just diss everything and not try to come up with ANY potential way make it less campy? i admitted it's campy i said "push the action." at least i'm saying something other than what this entire thread is. johns foreverrrrr

mostly because i want it to be more campy. the more offensive the game gets, the more fox/falco are at an advantage and every other char is at a disadvantage. at least if the game is more defensive it has better risk/reward dynamics for those awesome deathgrabs or 50-death edge guards. the balance is really good as is, it's not like camping ruins the game.

 

[Divinokage]

Camping ruins the community and is frowned upon.. so **** that **** with your BS.

 

[Landry]

Camping ruins the community and is frowned upon.. so **** that **** with your BS.

Kage bringing that good good.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

LOL i wanna see if i can do it

why would you not be able to do it? the way i see it you're more likely to be the type to time someone out over alot of people. at your level you seem to "play to win" harder than any other player.

 

[Signia]

why would you not be able to do it? the way i see it you're more likely to be the type to time someone out over alot of people. at your level you seem to "play to win" harder than any other player.

why wouldn't you play to win in tournament matches??

 

[Aber]

I agree that the m2k hate is really dumb. Just because he's good at gimping people doesn't mean he plays "gay" or even defensive. Have half of you people even watched m2k's matches? hes actually a pretty aggressive player