Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[JonaDiaper]

gtfo outta here im the best doc and he's only like my 6th best or something

no macman, its 4.

quoted for LIES

fedor emelianenko for best doc.

 

[Desh]

Lol? yes you can cc grab a nair.
if you cant then you're doing it wrong.
I do it with peach doc falco fox, BOWSER >_> (well maybe not fox's nair w/ bowser)
what advantage does doc have over link?
of course the only reason link has a chance is because its
and i play/ have played a lot of good foxes =/ .
vwins/gaynex/m2k/sextuar/kirbykaze got a good fox, and other ones that are good.
everything i listed has worked on most of them, dsmashing a waveshine being the exception, but still works as long as the fox isnt absolutely perfect. everyone messes up >_> and really if ur being waveshine u dont have too many options.

Also i've done well against all of those foxes minus sextuar and vwins, although i've only played vwins once or twice like a year ago, and i only played one match with sextuar =/ .

no one is arguing fox>doc, but if you think its any worse then MAYBE 60-40 then idk, maybe i find the match not that hard, and i know i dont play bad foxes, and its the one match up i have the most experience in.

im eating apple pie right now, and i put whipped cream on it but it ****ing melted. -_-

 

[JonaDiaper]

fedor would give you more whipped cream

 

[Kyu Puff]

According to Skler, Doc > Link

 

[Desh]

"Doc and Mario have a more spammable projectile with less lag. Link generally has to approach them and gets worked because of it. Doc/Mario also have a beastly approach, great shield pressure game (on Link only) an easy edgeguard against Link and are difficult to combo/kill. They have good combos on Link and since they don't actually need to finish (just send you off the edge and edgeguard) their lack of good KO moves doesn't really matter. Doc also has a great finishing combo that can KO Link on most stages around 110%. They also have CGs against Link, Mario's is amazing while Doc's is just ok."

this is part of his explanation to why doc is hard for link.

link DOES NOT HAVE TO APPROACH.
hell hes the campiest link i've played with doc so idk where hes going with that.
docs projectile IS more spammable, but theyre less effective, and cover less than links do.
and link can edge gaurd doc JUST as easily as doc can link, maybe easier, drop down nair near the edge is pretty much gauranteed, not to mention he can chuck **** at you.

docs recovery SUCKS. doc is easier to kill than link. link has more versatile recovery. period.
he doesnt even know what hes talking about here. no good ko moves? and then he continues to contradict himself by saying doc has a great finishining combo (assuming hes talking about dthrow fair)

now he doesnt bother to into the fact that link REALLY DOESNT have to approach. why should he? he can spam projectiles and make it a ***** to approach, and when doc gets close he has the option of outspacing doc with isnt very hard (have you seen docs range >_> ).
or just run away and spam/camp some more.
links disjointed hitbox's **** doc from where ever he is for the most part, especially if doc is above him.
where as link being above doc isnt as much as a problem, he can just pull a dair, and hit the ground, if it misses then lol, but he doesnt even reallyneed to aim for u , he could just use it to protect himself on the way down then edge cancel it or something gay. and yay if it does hit, docs ****ed.

now im not gonna be like him and im gonna point out both sides of the story.
doc can cg link to about 40 if its done perfectly. (woo hoo!?)
this is of course assuming doc gets a grab, wich we have establish isnt easy. im not saying its super freaking hard and impossible, but it is DEFINITELY far from easy, and if the doc is getting a lot of grabs then the link is straight up playing badly.

ok, so doc CAN definitely combo link, (once he gets in and gets a grab, and the link messes up his di or decides not to jump out at the right % or w.e.)

link cannot be combo'd to a KO'able % unless he allows it (unless im dumb, wich is quite possible). lets face it, vs a good link that uair juggling a link to fair at 100% isnt going to happen like in reapers vid.

so once ur done combo'ing and u've got ur grab, to kill him, u need to get yet ANOTHER grab. wich again isnt easy.

idc who says it or how many times, link has an advantage, im not saying its like marth/falcon/sheik. but really >_>

also, my pie was good.

 

[soap]

how are we gonna pester kobe for doc tips then? =[

actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Py1-tlMgrk
his combo video

though his opponents had a lil bit of west coast DI [seems like they weren't even touching their controller] it's still pretty beast. We need to look at how he sets up his combos, they always seem to come out of nowhere.

dont quite agree with that list, but still a tight vid.

m2k u have to actually use a character in tourney before u tout yourself as the best

 

[DRD]

Come on m2k, you heard soap

Next big tournament

Doc

Do it

 

[soap]

ya i heard Kobe is coming to genesis and going all doc

 

[Desh]

do u have any idea how much hype there would be if it was confirmed!?

edit: k guys im off to my dads house for the weekend XD
idk if i'll be able to gets a internet connection D:
kk bye when my ride gets here lolololol
oh and also, i didnt add a table of contents for the thread. its just so small right now that it seems rather pointless, everything is viewable on one page =p

 

[raincatchfire]

m2k used to main doc... but no docs lately except that shroomed guy whos interesting but not the best lol. m2k COULD be the best doc just because hes like the best in the world, but i dont think he can claim that hes the best doc at the moment. and hes definitely not going to go doc in a major tourney. he plays to win, not to pill people. doc is cool tho

 

[ranmaru]

Go Doc M2k! :3

 

[otg]

I figured out a pretty good way to deal with Falcon's Nair: Fair. It should trade or beat it out. Anyone want to confirm?

 

[DRD]

I figured out a pretty good way to deal with Falcon's Nair: Fair. It should trade or beat it out. Anyone want to confirm?

Even if it does, if falcon is jumping nairs at you, a relatively slow start-up aerial like fair isn't going to be extremely effective at stopping them I wouldn't think. I'd expect you'd have to space them well also.

 

[ranmaru]

Also if you are getting naired like off the edge, that is also not a good idea, I think. But its always good to try, so I'll try that when playing a Falcon, lol if I am brave.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i think the kobe is underrated... it ***** ICs

 

[Roman.]

ummm you guys don't utilt falcon's nair? lol it's like the simplest thing ever

 

[Stos]

CC falcons nair to grab and that should be a stock.

 

[Desh]

ummm you guys don't utilt falcon's nair? lol it's like the simplest thing ever

CC falcons nair to grab and that should be a stock.

these.
honestly you dont even need to cc or fair it, if you're smart you can just wd back>grab lol. XD
it works too, but yeah, fairing falcons nair is more difficult and probably less useful than those ^^^^unless falcons at a high %, and even then a grab would work XD

edit:
this is what m2k sent me as a summary of how he thinks doc should be played

down smash a lot, jump back fair a lot vs chars with little range like doc dittos or fox, jump nair at ppl randomly and try to land behind them or sometimes jab into grab or jab down smash depending character. CG a lot.

^_^ , k now everyone go and be ****! XD

 

[Stos]

these.
honestly you dont even need to cc or fair it, if you're smart you can just wd back>grab lol.

well what happens if the falcon is running to sh nair. even though you wavedash back you could still get hit with like his foot. also a smart falcon would either jab, run away or buffer roll after missing a sh nair.
serisouly i think Doc vs. Falcon is all about momentum. like its back and forth. if doc grabs falcon can lose a stock, if falcon combos Doc could lose a stock.

 

[JonaDiaper]

lol

i should write one of those for falcon.... :

knee, taunt, GG.

lmao

 

[FYASKO]

serisouly i think Doc vs. Falcon is all about momentum. like its back and forth. if doc grabs falcon can lose a stock, if falcon combos Doc could lose a stock.

yep basically, except, the difference is, doc grabbing falcon is bloody stupid (see how so many of docs problems have to do with him being a ****ing leprachaun >_> )
just because of how fast falcon is, and the fact nair ***** pills, so you cant even stop him. at all XD
go to the info thread and look at why falcons hard for doc,
they both can **** eachother from a grab but its more likely for doc to get ***** than falcon XD

 

[Stos]

yep basically, except, the difference is, doc grabbing falcon is bloody stupid

thats why you CC falcons Nair to Grab.

anyways Desh why the **** are you on on your new account >.>

and yes Falcon is hard to grab. but once Falcon is out of stage he basically lost a stock.

i mean like Falcon is hard to grab. but its easy for you to edge guard.

 

[FYASKO]

lol, but once falcon gets doc of the stage you could say the same thing XD
and im on my new account because i was already signed on with it on this comp, i didnt even realize lol. =/

edit: lol night doc boards 8D

 

[Stos]

^ you're right but i think doc has a higher chance making it back than falcon.

kk night bby.

 

[isthattim?]

G and W matchup tips?
kgo.

 

[St. Viers]

^^um, don't jump into the ****?

@M2k--should totally go doc as much as possible, ^_^

 

[S.R. XXVII]

Nah, if M2K should win a tourney with anyone, it should be Roy. And cp Doc.

 

[Dogysamich]

gtfo outta here im the best doc and he's only like my 6th best or something

then why in gods name do you fear puffs?

 

[Neverender]

Ooooo burn

 

[Skler]

Lots of stuff.

I play a Doc all the time, when both players are used to the matchup Link's options are (mostly) shut down. Doc does have the better projectile game as far as spamming/camping goes. They don't control the stage well but they don't need to because Link can't throw things as fast as Doc throws things. Link can fly through pills with a sex kick, but that just leads to him getting uaired and then ***** unless he catches doc mid pill (which doesn't happen much seeing as Link is one slow dude). It's worth mentioning that if Link has a bomb in his hand Doc can just pill camp for a few seconds to completely ruin his ****. The bomb means no sex kick, making Link fight pills with his laggy projectiles.

Link's offensive game against Doc is garbage and his defensive game is messed up because projectiles are usually caped (really only a problem against the bombs), naired or ruined by pills. Spacing fsmashes and the like can work, but it's so laggy that it leaves Link open to an aerial approach. Link's shield becomes borderline worthless because of how badly Doc ***** it. Doc can approach with a fair and Link can't do anything OOS to it except get jabbed in the face.

Link's edgeguard game against Doc is weird because it's risky and dumb. The nair trades hits with the upB at best and Doc is so floaty that it doesn't push him out all that far. With good DI Doc should be surviving for about as long as Link does (not that Link should be surviving long, Doc has an edgeguard that negates the hookshot and makes me sad).

In the end Link has to play a game revolving around nair spam to break up pills, which can get him punished, and spacing his laggy attacks. Link's grab also becomes a lot more useful in the Doc matchup since he can run from aerials done early and grab as Doc lands, but Link can hardly combo Doc so a grab won't lead to much. Link also can't combo into kill moves against Doc at all, and all his safe moves have horrible (or vertical) knockback.

Doc vs Link pros and cons.

Link Pros
- Range
- Controllable projectiles
- Recovery
- Grab
- Weight
- Nair

Link Cons
- Easy to combo
- Projectiles are shut down by pills
- Gets edgeguarded (usually not a problem for Link, but it is in this match)
- Lack of combos, especially into KO moves
- Offensive game
- Speed

Doc Pros
- Pill spam
- Offensive game
- Speed
- Combos, especially into KO move(s)
- CG (40% is still 40%)
- Grab game in general
- Edgeguarding
- Punishment game
- Moves that actually hit the opponent off the stage

Doc Cons
- Abysmal recovery distance (though Link's attacks all send people away and up)
- Range
- Weight

 

[Roman.]

hey skler, wanna ****?

on a serious note... going to mm14?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

so lemme ask you skler, what do you say doc can do to stop link's hookshot. I wanna know cause maybe it'll also stop samus' grapple.

This is dogy on reflex's account. Sittin here after the cancelled Judgement tourney, but the successfull smashaid XI. 2nd place with no doc. Got my *** 30% of the $0 dollars (yeah you read that right.) :D

 

[ranmaru]

thats why you CC falcons Nair to Grab.

anyways Desh why the **** are you on on your new account >.>

and yes Falcon is hard to grab. but once Falcon is out of stage he basically lost a stock.

i mean like Falcon is hard to grab. but its easy for you to edge guard.

Lol I was dying and a Falcon was about to edgeguard me but I pilled him and he died. :3

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Guys is dair reliable at all for combos?
When I do it they will sometimes jump away before the lag ends >.>

Also what do foxes usually do when they grab you? (wondering cuz uthrow uair doesnt work >.>)

 

[Roman.]

foxes always uthrow me

 

[ranmaru]

I don't remember a fox grabbing me much... Only remember getting shined... xD

 

[otg]

Guys is dair reliable at all for combos?
When I do it they will sometimes jump away before the lag ends >.>

Also what do foxes usually do when they grab you? (wondering cuz uthrow uair doesnt work >.>)

Uthrow-> Uair isn't guaranteed, but that doesn't mean it won't work. If you DJ too much out of Uthrow they will bait you and DJ Uair you. Fox can also connect other aerials out of Uthrow just by reading how Doc reacts. Even though nothing is guaranteed, the Uthrow puts Doc in a bad position and really it comes down to Doc being smart and mixing things up.

I think Fthrow is a pretty solid option for spacies, they can rush you down afterwards (particularly Falco).

 

[Skler]

so lemme ask you skler, what do you say doc can do to stop link's hookshot. I wanna know cause maybe it'll also stop samus' grapple.

This is dogy on reflex's account. Sittin here after the cancelled Judgement tourney, but the successfull smashaid XI. 2nd place with no doc. Got my *** 30% of the $0 dollars (yeah you read that right.) :D

Samus' grapple is a different beast, she has more tricksies. Link doesn't have a good rising hookshot or anything like that, if he's far out his only option is to dodge toward the stage and hookshot. If he's close he can vary the direction, but not enough to avoid Doc's floatyness and bair gayness. Stopping Link's hookshot is easy enough, just jump out and bair. Doc can bair something like 3 times before he needs to get back and Link can only dodge one of them (two if he's close to the stage, in which case he should be upBing to not get gimped).

Good **** on the $0.

 

[Stos]

Lol I was dying and a Falcon was about to edgeguard me but I pilled him and he died. :3

thats what i mean lol

foxes always uthrow me

lol at uthrow.

Uthrow Uair from a Fox doesnt work with di.

I was playing yesterday and people kept trying to Uthrow Uair me and i kept telling them that Uthrow Uair doesnt work.. after like 6 matches after they stoped doing for uthrows and they started Dthrowing me lol

 

[ranmaru]

thats what i mean lol


lol at uthrow.

Uthrow Uair from a Fox doesnt work with di.

I was playing yesterday and people kept trying to Uthrow Uair me and i kept telling them that Uthrow Uair doesnt work.. after like 6 matches after they stoped doing for uthrows and they started Dthrowing me lol

Oh, yeah. xD Now a pill can also save him.... >_> I was coming back onto the stage and he jumped and missed a falcon punch, I pilled, it bounced off the edge and ****ING SAVED HIM XDDDDDDDDDDD rofl he thought it came from the wall. xDDDDD