Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Naota21t]

u can do the dajuan and randomly dthrow/dsmash when ppl are trying to DI the uthrow cg (which usually results in bad DI)

 

[Shroomed]

That combo ***** man.

 

[onionchowder]

I got a 0-death on Kels once with that. I Uthrow CG'd him to the edge, and Dthrow->Dsmashed as he DI'd way off to the right, trying to avoid the CG.

I still lost, because Kels.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Hey docs, Im a marth main first day back and hadnt played in a bit. Im reviewing match ups for upcoming tourny in MS and dont remember too much about doc. I know marth wins the math up but any principal advice or strict ways of playing the match up? i know that docs a floaty character so ill start with that. edgeguarding i think Id be able to handle. but thats all im really thinking bout. any advice?

 

[Max?]

Keep Doc above you with uthrow and moves. Respect his CC game and don't just try to mindlessly wall him out with Fairs, because if he is smart he'll get around it. Be careful with your recovery since Doc ***** it pretty hard with ledgedrop bairs and capes.

Just focus on staying below Doc and you're already ahead of the curve.

 

[boss8]

sooooooooooooo.....

platform camping spacies **** doc......

makes u wanna pick another character...

 

[onionchowder]

For me, I get ****ed up the most by Marths who quickly string grabs to the edge and then edgeguard/gimp with Dtilt, Fsmash, and other Marth ****. Getting juggled is bad, but low % gimps hurt a lot too.

 

[KirbyKaze]

DI down and away.

 

[knightpraetor]

who platform camped you boss?

 

[KirbyKaze]

$1 on Cyrain

 

[onionchowder]

I try to avoid Battlefield and DL64 against spacies, because the top platform is really hard for Doc to reach. The top platform on BF is actually higher than that on DL64.

 

[knightpraetor]

lol really? i've played cyrain a lot and he has never done that to me with any character. Maybe his playstyle changed or he learned to abuse it better

personally I'm betting on chillindude

 

[boss8]

any falco/fox main will platform camp me......

cept for like chillindude/dr pp......

its lame,but you wanna win right?

 

[KirbyKaze]

So technically my guess of "Cyrain" is not wrong.

KP you owe me a buck.

 

[Max?]

Boss you just gotta punish them ridiculously hard. I got no problem running up to the top platform if I have to and ****** them. NO FEAR.

Most spacies suck anyway, just like most top tier users

 

[KirbyKaze]

"Fear is the mind killer."

 

[boss8]

i figured out what i was doing wrong.....

instead of playing the fool,the fool played me.

 

[strawhats]

thought you guys would appreciate this lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTuK79rgrjY&feature=related

 

[Mr.Lemon]

Yay page 700!

 

[jrod842]

hey guys think you could tell me how i could improve thanks (sorry for bad quality)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53Dd165iEc&feature=youtu.be

 

[KirbyKaze]

Only watched the match vs Sheik since I know nothing about Doc vs Falcon and don't have the patience or interest to reverse engineer all of Doc's strategies vs the character from Youtube.

- You're playing predominantly from the air vs a character whose entire moveset can be used to anti-air.

- You would benefit from becoming more technically proficient. Not dropping frames after attacks or other actions, hitting your l-cancels, maximizing your distance (and controlling it) with your WDs, etc. makes a big difference.

- If Sheik lands on FoD platforms, u-smash into something if they're low. Otherwise waveland > grab / smash. Bair is acceptable but hit her offstage and then prepare for her recovery options (DJ fair, up+B, airdodges, etc).

- Dash attack is dangerous vs Sheik. Don't really recommend unless you see her jump and you can slip under her attack or something. Even then dash cancel / dash shield into something is probably better.

- Crouch cancel weak moves.

Your basics are weak and you look new. You just need to play more right now and try to use his better options more. It looks like you're just tossing around random attacks a lot (spontaneous f-smash is an MVP a lot when it really shouldn't be). When you're on defense, try to use your WD back to create a reaction window so you can verify that the opponent has done something you can punish (missing in front of you is the ideal one but see what else you can come up with). You should also be doing this with your dash dance although that can also be an offensive thing (spotting that they've done something punishable within a vulnerable range [sidestep, f-tilt, etc] can lead to juicy things). On that note, dash dance more and better. Don't be discouraged if you miss a grab into a sidestep > sidestep or something. It's part of the learning process.

Now, to address jumping... Doc's game is often heavy ground because going into the air gets him ***** by characters like Sheik who can outrange his air approaches and then go to town on him with combos. Doc likes crouch, shield, WD, DD, run --> dash cancel, and even walk because they can be used to set up some of his best moves (d-smash, grab, u-tilt on occasion, u-smash on occasion, and his entire poking suite with jab, f-tilt, etc). He's also much more maneuverable on the ground in general (his high DJ and long air time is a form of commitment) and can change his mind a lot more with his movement to keep his footing both variable and solid. This is not to say that SH nairs, uairs, and such are horrific - they can be invaluable vs certain things (contesting Sheik's SH fairs, for instance, can be done with SH uair if you call it) but to constantly try to set up your hits from the air works against what he's good at and plays into Sheik's strengths.

 

[Max?]

Goddamn KK, you're advice is godlike

 

[KirbyKaze]

Reverse engineering combined with extensive game mechanic knowledge and pure unbridled data at its finest.

 

[Max?]

I am not worthy. Teach me the ways

 

[VGmasta]

u can do the dajuan and randomly dthrow/dsmash when ppl are trying to DI the uthrow cg (which usually results in bad DI)

Oh gosh, we're calling that "The Dajuan"? lol

sooooooooooooo.....

platform camping spacies **** doc......

makes u wanna pick another character...

I know how you feel bro, TRUST

Hey guys, you may as well tack on all of my exclusive gimmicks since I ain't really playing in tournaments anymore. Can't be the best Doc with zero tournament entries in this community.

Spacing the cape is so good. <---- And we'll call that "The VGmasta"

 

[onionchowder]

I agree with OTG, KK's advice is incredibly useful. Unfortunately, nobody I play with plays Shiek well, so I can't actually get a video of myself in that matchup.

 

[jrod842]

Thank you
you have given me a lot to think about and yes i am new i have really been playing for 4 or 5 months

 

[KirbyKaze]

I am not worthy. Teach me the ways

If you go to APEX we can talk and play.

 

[SmashMac]

Thank you
you have given me a lot to think about and yes i am new i have really been playing for 4 or 5 months

Get your technical and spacing skills down by practicing against level 4 CPUs (you should be spacing at all times). Once you've gotten your technical aspects down, when you play against an opponent, practice your mindgames, smarts, and option choices (both offensive and defensive). I also recommend learning how to zone your opponent(s).

 

[onionchowder]

I've found myself in a strange rut where my tech-chasing ans mix-ups are the best part of my game, but my spacing is pretty bad. When I play against spacing-centric characters, I try to do too much tricky waveland and DD stuff instead of focusing on spacing; I frequently trade poorly and get punished for misspacing. How should I improve my spacing?

 

[SmashMac]

I've found myself in a strange rut where my tech-chasing ans mix-ups are the best part of my game, but my spacing is pretty bad. When I play against spacing-centric characters, I try to do too much tricky waveland and DD stuff instead of focusing on spacing; I frequently trade poorly and get punished for misspacing. How should I improve my spacing?

You can improve your spacing by playing other characters that have a very high dependance on spacing in order to get to pro status (Ganondorf, Marth, Captain Falcon, Space Animals, etc.). Honestly, every character has a high dependance on spacing, but this is just an example. You can also watch videos of the top pro players from the past and who are current (Dr. Peepee, HungryBox, Hax, Mew2King, DaShizWiz, Mango, KeepSpeedN, etc.) and see how they go about their option choices in move(s). You should be constantly studying videos and ask yourself in every situation questions like, "Why did he/she use this move?","What was he/she thinking 'here'?". Even if you have to pause the video just so that you can understand and put a specific part of the match together, it's well worth it. Mindgames, smarts (which is basically making a composition of option choices), and spacing are far more overall important than technicality. Technicality simply can help you put all of the others together a lot smoother and better. Sometimes, whoever is more proficient than the other in terms of mindgames/smarts/spacing/technicaility is the one who will most likely win the match. However, it is usually the first three of the four which really determine who will win the set.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've found myself in a strange rut where my tech-chasing ans mix-ups are the best part of my game, but my spacing is pretty bad. When I play against spacing-centric characters, I try to do too much tricky waveland and DD stuff instead of focusing on spacing; I frequently trade poorly and get punished for misspacing. How should I improve my spacing?

Every character is 'spacing-centric' at high level.

You've said that your focus is on waveland and DD stuff; you try to be tricky with it. In what way are you being tricky? Are you trying to lull them into attacking you? How far do you try to stay from the opponent? Why?

Emphasizing mobility isn't really a bad thing. But you should know why you're doing it and what your goals are with it too.

 

[Max?]

I love this ****ing character. Just gotta refine a few things vs. Sheik and Peach, and then it's a WRAP

 

[boss8]

peach is easier then shiek.....

and falco is lame also...

 

[Max?]

I just don't have my practice vs. Peach mains.

Falco is pretty easy imo

 

[boss8]

we should switch places for like a week.....

so i can play hella falco..and u can play hella peach..

 

[Max?]

I don't really get hella Falco practice, I just tend to beat Falco in tournament. I have a really good sense of where his holes are, and I just do my best to stay out of bad positions and punish as hard as I can when I get an in.

 

[Ørn]

You guys should learn to chaingrab Sheik. It's sooo good. Just ask a Sheik main if you can practice it for a bit, and then get the timing down.

I feel like Sheik is one of my stronger match ups now, though I play PAL so it's probably quite a bit easier.

Peach is weird. I think I kind of have a game plan now - one that involves spacing bairs a ton and juggling her from throws, for the most part - but yeah it's kind of a difficult match up. Definitely learn dthrow > fair at kill %s, though. Makes a huge difference.

Probably just stating the obvious here for the most part, but I felt like contributing. I'm trying to learn Doc, and yeah he's pretty good.

 

[Strong Badam]

OTG: It helps that like 95% of Falco mains are terrible at this game.

 

[boss8]

OTG: It helps that like 95% of Falco mains are terrible at this game.

i know this......

its just the fact that they are abusing the characters strengths...

yo all doc mains are either...

6 feet or taller

or under 5'5 and shorter xD

there is no in between..