Vudujin
Smash Lord
Unless you can chaingrab, ban FD.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think Doc's good levels are PS and anything small where he can setup low percent kills and edgeguards (f-smash is not ground techable after like 80% because electricity [really]). Doc also gets some tricks with u-smash on FoD plats, which can be useful. And the low plats on all three of those maps can stuff some of Sheik's SH game at convenient times. Slowing Sheik down is nice.
FD is reasonable if you can do perfect CGs but you may find it hard coming down after Sheik's uair combos safely. You also have no recovery whatsoever and her range advantage is buffed because you have no weird angles to attack from. So it's a double edged sword.
Battlefield is awful. Dreamland is also really bad. I'd ban DL64 though in a bo3 'cuz Doc gets some decent platform stuff on BF (namely some odd approach angles & movement options) whereas DL is just obnoxiously annoyingly big...
FD is reasonable if you can do perfect CGs but you may find it hard coming down after Sheik's uair combos safely. You also have no recovery whatsoever and her range advantage is buffed because you have no weird angles to attack from. So it's a double edged sword.
Battlefield is awful. Dreamland is also really bad. I'd ban DL64 though in a bo3 'cuz Doc gets some decent platform stuff on BF (namely some odd approach angles & movement options) whereas DL is just obnoxiously annoyingly big...
Max?
Smash Champion
FD should be avoided at all cost vs. pretty much anyone above him on the tier list unless they can be chaingrabbed and you are god like at it. He needs platforms. He gets ***** so bad by being above his opponent.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Ok some Doc footage from twitch.tv, hopefully you guys don't mind the sound too much =p bc there is none unless you turn it up real loud, but if someone gets something cool, prepare your ears for ringing because the mic volume totally drowns the game volume.
vs Peach http://www.twitch.tv/ticosmash/b/333822578 @ 0:33:15
vs Fox http://www.twitch.tv/ticosmash/b/333822578 @ 0:36:40
This was from about a week and a half ago. Since then I've changed my approach to the Peach MU a bit in that depending on what % she's at I play her differently. Lower % kinda run in do some damage and GTFO b4 dsmash. Spam pills to get her out of float, run in, do damage, GTFO b4 dsmash. Rinse and repeat until a higher % where I play my default Doc of dsmash, jab game, and well spaced/timed fairs.
I'd say I'm looking for more of a general review of my gameplay. If you want to look past those matches, I played black Doc all night. There was only 3 of us, so I was on 2 out of every 3 matches.
Do I have the general Doc flow? Like I feel certain characters people play they have the general flow for them but when they try another character it takes a bit b4 they understand that movement/what-leads-to-what phase. For some this could be as fast as one game before they get that understanding of that character. But to play the character at tournament level(which I'm not nearly close to) it may take some practice.
Thanks to anyone who reviews my Doc = )
Also KirbyKaze, I have some general/but serious questions about the game I'd like to ask, I heard sometimes you prefer AIM?
And, what does IIRC mean?
Edit: Just realized we didn't have de-interlace on as well, I'll take the blame for that one lol
vs Peach http://www.twitch.tv/ticosmash/b/333822578 @ 0:33:15
vs Fox http://www.twitch.tv/ticosmash/b/333822578 @ 0:36:40
This was from about a week and a half ago. Since then I've changed my approach to the Peach MU a bit in that depending on what % she's at I play her differently. Lower % kinda run in do some damage and GTFO b4 dsmash. Spam pills to get her out of float, run in, do damage, GTFO b4 dsmash. Rinse and repeat until a higher % where I play my default Doc of dsmash, jab game, and well spaced/timed fairs.
I'd say I'm looking for more of a general review of my gameplay. If you want to look past those matches, I played black Doc all night. There was only 3 of us, so I was on 2 out of every 3 matches.
Do I have the general Doc flow? Like I feel certain characters people play they have the general flow for them but when they try another character it takes a bit b4 they understand that movement/what-leads-to-what phase. For some this could be as fast as one game before they get that understanding of that character. But to play the character at tournament level(which I'm not nearly close to) it may take some practice.
Thanks to anyone who reviews my Doc = )
Also KirbyKaze, I have some general/but serious questions about the game I'd like to ask, I heard sometimes you prefer AIM?
And, what does IIRC mean?
Edit: Just realized we didn't have de-interlace on as well, I'll take the blame for that one lol
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
"IIRC" means "if I recall."
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I prefer AIM
kirbykaze3038
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
kirbykaze3038
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
I got some friendly sets recorded, if anyones bored
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuLTW7ro36E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrq0hhgr-LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuLTW7ro36E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrq0hhgr-LE
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
I enjoyed your DD charged usmashes.
Shroomed
Smash Master
Your advice is ridiculously good KK.
I may learn some things from it and use it next time we play.
WHICH I WANNA DO!
Come back to Norcal.
I may learn some things from it and use it next time we play.
WHICH I WANNA DO!
Come back to Norcal.
jrod842
Smash Rookie
hey think you guys could post the dthrow to fair %
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Baby why aren't you coming to The Big House
I wanted to snuggle with you
edit: Oh yeah my advice is pretty good. But it's mostly just reverse engineered from the games we played at Kevin's house + the tournament set + the games at Sheridan's. It makes sense strategically so I figured, "Mmm... this can't be too far off the truth..."
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'll cuddle you into oblivion and melt your heart with love.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone know who these guys play and/or have matchup advice? I think I can make it out of R1 pools, but it'll be a stretch.
Artificial Flavor
Chillindude829 -- Fox
HIV+ -- Falco
Kanye Rest -- Jiggs
StewbyDoo
TheLake -- Zelda
Zwarm
Artificial Flavor
Chillindude829 -- Fox
HIV+ -- Falco
Kanye Rest -- Jiggs
StewbyDoo
TheLake -- Zelda
Zwarm
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
how many make it out? it'll probably be you and Hiv+ for the battle if it's just 3...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
At a glance it looks like your pool will test your skills with your shield. And your self-control against patient opponents.
WumpaWolfy
Smash Cadet
Hey Shroomed I've been watching some of your videos from Apex and I've noticed you almost never use docs tornado for recovery except as a desperate attempt to stall beneath the ledge. Do you find the benefits of using the tornado over simply DIing towards the stage and pilling negligible or is there more to it than that?
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
I think it's top 4 make it out. I'm pretty sure Chillin and HIV+ will wreck me, and I really don't know how to fight Zelda. HIV+ took a game off Darkrain at FC, iirc. Besides those three, I'm pretty confident I can make it out of pools. I've got my pocket Y.Link in case I have trouble with a Jiggs or Peach. I'm just afraid of a bunch of surprise Shieks.
Max?
Smash Champion
Don't be scared of these guys just because they have a name. Play your best and catch them off guard with the Doc jank. You got this. HIV+ may have taken a game off Daarkrain or w'e, but considering that matchup is 90-10 in Falcos favor and he lost the set, idk if that means much. SO YOU GOT THIS.
As for Sheik, dthrow CG -> stuff, CC dsmash, pills, be gay at the edge.
As for Sheik, dthrow CG -> stuff, CC dsmash, pills, be gay at the edge.
Shroomed
Smash Master
I'm just bad at it so I feel that I lose height rather than gain any.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
I didn't know you could gain height from it, I use it more to get me a little closer to the stage if I'm far away and high up. It doesn't help me much, and I don't use it often.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Ahh, nice to see the Doc boards active again
^^ The best advice I've heard in a while; because this works really well.
I LOL'ed here; I used to do the same thing. But Shroomed's been recovering the same way to 6+ years now.
Never heard of this guy before. Sounds like a Jigglypuff with some swag though, lol
Max?
Smash Champion
I'm becoming less of a fan of PTP over time. It takes a long time, and can allow an opponent to cover ground and get good positional advantage on you for the rest of your recovery. If you can just DI and grab the ledge with your DJ, then do it. Only tornado if you absolutely have to. Certain characters can just swat you out of it even from really far away (Falcon, Jiggs, Sheik come to mind. Spacies too if they are feeling ballsy)
WumpaWolfy
Smash Cadet
Thanks for the responses guys. After reading the Doc guides on here a while ago I got into the habit of trying to PTP almost immediately (assuming I wasn't close enough to get easily punished) but lately I've stopped because it usually means giving my opponent more time to position themselves or charge projectiles. Doesn't help that I suck at PTP too. A lot of the older doc videos make it out to be an essential part of his recovery so I wasn't sure if I was developing a bad habit or not.
Max?
Smash Champion
Yeah, a lot of older Doc guides/mentality is just outdated.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Dogy's guide is still (mostly) legit.
I consider it sorta the Bible of the Doc boards
Smooth Criminal
I consider it sorta the Bible of the Doc boards
Smooth Criminal
Shroomed
Smash Master
I've begun practicing my Doc again. Be ready guys.
Scidadle
Smash Champion
If you're good at doing the down-b and you can gain height you're supposed to do it as soon as possible so you can come down from the highest you possibly can. I suck at it so I never do it.
WumpaWolfy
Smash Cadet
Good to know, I suppose that's what I get for just lurking the boards for so long instead of asking directly. Dogy's guide is amazing though, such great info and so much character lol.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Feel like a little kid who's been told he's going to Playland soon.I've begun practicing my Doc again. Be ready guys.
When's you're next tournament that will be streamed? Any recent VODs?
Max?
Smash Champion
Nair isn't the issue, it's Uair. You can CC the first hit of the Nair and either shield or do somethign else. You can also stuff it out with Utilt/Ftilt, or just move the **** out of the way. Uair is the real problem. He can chain a TON of them together, and convert them into death very easily. Don't get grabbed, dont jump.
RFrizzle
Smash Ace
Basically if you get naired just hard di down and away otherwise its nair-> nair->****.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
I have a lot of problems spacing against Falcon's Nair, and the Nair->knee is always really scary. Still not sure if that's a guaranteed combo or not.
Naota21t
Smash Champion
Falcon has a lot of guaranteed **** so it's not just DI
Mr.Lemon
Smash Journeyman
I realized a great way to deal with Falcon is to just keep moving. Even if I have to dash dance in place or run up and down on the platforms, it creates a more difficult target for him to hit.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
I'm always afraid to go onto platforms against falcon, because his Uair sweeps them so well.
I've been playing around with shffl'd Uair -> Fair (or just sh-ff-autocancel). I noticed Shroomed does it a lot, and it seems to be a great, somewhat reliable kill combo on a lot of characters.
I've been playing around with shffl'd Uair -> Fair (or just sh-ff-autocancel). I noticed Shroomed does it a lot, and it seems to be a great, somewhat reliable kill combo on a lot of characters.
Naota21t
Smash Champion
uair ***** against falcon, its combos easy into everything (dsmash at early percent).
i feel like the trick of this match up is really controlling the stage and being in the right place next to falcon.
you never wanna be above falcon because you can't stop the uairs, and DI for it is bad.
u wanna be either behind falcon or underneath so u can uair. full hop pill to force him to do stuff ( yea i know all his aerials beat pills but youre throwing them to force an action, not to actually hit him).
BAIR IS KEY!!!! its the only thing w/ priority to beat any of his ****. also get grabs when u can (its really hard so make them count). if u grab him he should die or at the very least have him off stage. uthrow cg works at 0 to about 60 or 70. uair regrab works and ***** (depending on how they di u can grab/nair/fair/uair again). u can also change into dthrow cg round 70 if u wanna play real wack.
the matchup is grabs, bairs, uairs, occasional nair cuz it stays out forever.
oh and utilt actuallly ***** in this matchup if u know when to use it. ftilt too.
i feel like the trick of this match up is really controlling the stage and being in the right place next to falcon.
you never wanna be above falcon because you can't stop the uairs, and DI for it is bad.
u wanna be either behind falcon or underneath so u can uair. full hop pill to force him to do stuff ( yea i know all his aerials beat pills but youre throwing them to force an action, not to actually hit him).
BAIR IS KEY!!!! its the only thing w/ priority to beat any of his ****. also get grabs when u can (its really hard so make them count). if u grab him he should die or at the very least have him off stage. uthrow cg works at 0 to about 60 or 70. uair regrab works and ***** (depending on how they di u can grab/nair/fair/uair again). u can also change into dthrow cg round 70 if u wanna play real wack.
the matchup is grabs, bairs, uairs, occasional nair cuz it stays out forever.
oh and utilt actuallly ***** in this matchup if u know when to use it. ftilt too.
Max?
Smash Champion
Uthrow CG stops around or before 50% if they know how to get out of it. Uair regrab is great.
This matchup is tough, definitely one of Doc's harder matchups
This matchup is tough, definitely one of Doc's harder matchups