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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
If OTG did it...it would probably be something like.

"See, in this type of situation, you should this move here..cause its swag, and if you don't, you're mad fake."
Yeah and he'll throw in some "This is an immaculate approach, all the other approaches are fake because it doesn't work here in Tristate and NY is the best and stuff."

I vote Dogy to participate; the guy's got hilarious commentary. :laugh:
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
I have the recording set up with a mic and everything but I'm pretty unmotivated to do such a large undertaking. I'll pm kk a lil later

:phone:
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
I can't even make it to Midwest anymore. Had to cancel my flight because unexpected financial burdens came up.
 

sanchaz

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
1,614
I can't even make it to Midwest anymore. Had to cancel my flight because unexpected financial burdens came up.
sad face @ shroomed. The midwest was interested in seeing you play man. maybe next time.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hgLZhTJ3-E

Some new matches of me vs. PC. There are a bunch on my channel and I'd love some critique, especially in dealing with a spacie like him who waveshine -> Usmashes and aerial -> shine grabs consistently.

I just couldn't resist showing this one off tho lol.

Here's more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B_CkfqN7tA

I'm starting to get really frustrated using this fake *** dentist.
 

Robsta

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
526
Location
Melbourne
What are Dr Mario's good matchups? I've been playing a lot of Doc recently and when I asked Mango he said Doc didn't have many or any good matchups against the most popular characters.

Also I was wondering who I should watch. I read the Doc guide in this section and have been watching a lot of Mac's stuff. Who else is a good doc to watch/learn shiz from?

:phone:
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
I wouldn't say he has any. Not by what people generally call a "good matchup". Ok, not, doesn't have any, but you don't see a single one till you get to low tier.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Jigglypuff. That's still hard sometimes. I go... FUCCCKKK. HOW DID I LOSE THAT.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
You just really gotta play good and not **** up... and well thats really really really ****ing hard.
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
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Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
wow mango is so biased against the chars he uses the most lol

doc is **** just cuz between down and up throw, he can CG like everyone. That's very powerful in singles. Uair -> another attack is very very good too, and you can simply throw many chars off stage, get 1 read, and a Bair or Cape for a gimp. Having those tools for gimping, along with strong KO power, makes him a very good character
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
wow mango is so biased against the chars he uses the most lol

doc is **** just cuz between down and up throw, he can CG like everyone. That's very powerful in singles. Uair -> another attack is very very good too, and you can simply throw many chars off stage, get 1 read, and a Bair or Cape for a gimp. Having those tools for gimping, along with strong KO power, makes him a very good character
I never get these =(

I get all my kills from KO's.

Socal (S2J/Lovage) is coming up to Norcal this weekend and I missed the last local because I didn't feel like going. I'm going this time so expect some new vids hopefully guys.
 

strawhats

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,273
Location
Bronx
I never get these =(

I get all my kills from KO's.

Socal (S2J/Lovage) is coming up to Norcal this weekend and missed the last local because I didn't feel like going. I'm going this time so expect some new vids hopefully guys.
does Jeff still play? I know it's random but I haven't heard his name come up in mad long.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
wow mango is so biased against the chars he uses the most lol

doc is **** just cuz between down and up throw, he can CG like everyone. That's very powerful in singles. Uair -> another attack is very very good too, and you can simply throw many chars off stage, get 1 read, and a Bair or Cape for a gimp. Having those tools for gimping, along with strong KO power, makes him a very good character
You should use him in tournament.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
I'd say at least 50% of my KOs are gimps (probably more), 30% move/throw -> fair and 20% jank.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
2,255
Location
Falco Bair
Everyone runs into that ****. They're like "oh it'll disappear by the time I get there ... **** I'M DEAD"

Part of that last 20% is people DIing Dsmash badly as well
 

Robsta

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
526
Location
Melbourne
Shroomed I've been watching a lot of your games lately (you make me horny) and I noticed in the few games I've watched you play against spacies whenever you're in front you always try to throw them off the edge then dair and die. What are you trying to do?

Also could someone give me a list of what characters I can chain throw and with what throw. (Just the most played characters would be fine)

:phone:
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
What are Dr Mario's good matchups? I've been playing a lot of Doc recently and when I asked Mango he said Doc didn't have many or any good matchups against the most popular characters.

Also I was wondering who I should watch. I read the Doc guide in this section and have been watching a lot of Mac's stuff. Who else is a good doc to watch/learn shiz from?

:phone:
Ummm, Doc doesn't really have any "good" match ups unless we're talking about maybe Bowser or Kirby.

Besides SmashMac, you could learn stuff from BobMoney, Shroomed, OTG, Dogysamich, Boss, Pine, eighteenspikes, Velocity, VGmasta, Angrylobster. They've all got something to offer.

Jigglypuff. That's still hard sometimes. I go... FUCCCKKK. HOW DID I LOSE THAT.
Jigglypuff is not a great matchup either. Not with those overwhelming hitboxes. Not to mention that good recovery.

wow mango is so biased against the chars he uses the most lol

doc is **** just cuz between down and up throw, he can CG like everyone. That's very powerful in singles. Uair -> another attack is very very good too, and you can simply throw many chars off stage, get 1 read, and a Bair or Cape for a gimp. Having those tools for gimping, along with strong KO power, makes him a very good character
Now if only that chaingrab was more effective on stages beside strong those two neutrals (FD and Dreamland). And Doc's grab range pisses me off at the least, with makes it tough to even land a grab to begin with. If the spacies just ban FD at the start of the tournament match, we're already losing.

You should use him in tournament.
^^ This

Doc is bad because 3.5 kill moves: f-air, d-smash, f-smash, and maybe the b-air.

F-air is slow as *** and f-smash range is whack as crack. That b-air never kills Peach, Samus, or Jiggs (all of who are really good characters that we probably play in tournament.)

Doc might be a "****" character, he's not that good. He can't even realistically approach any good defenses. Who has found the answer to Fox's retreating b-airs?! Or Falco's retreating b-airs?!

I'm just glad Doc has that d-smash that stops people from crouch-cancel grabbing so willingly.
 

Max?

Smash Champion
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Falco Bair
I had a post lined out to discuss some of the things you brought up in your last post Ricky, but I hate writing large walls of text as much as I hate reading them, so I decided to delete after spending probably 20 minutes on it LOL.

Ricky you should IM me when you get the chance.
 

VGmasta

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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Ricky you should IM me when you get the chance.
Ah, maybe you have the answers I've been lookin' for?!

I think you guys should use up tilt during your chain grabs more. It's really good, especially around 50%.
I know this, but most ppl from my experience DI too far away from my up-tilt to connect into anything. That's when I just SH up-air --> grab or d-smash
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,388
Location
Naples, FL.
I think you guys should use up tilt during your chain grabs more. It's really good, especially around 50%.
U-tilt is such a good move. The priority it has and the hit-box make it so good. Just the fact that it can cancel Marth's f-smash makes me laugh. And yeah it is good in between comboes. I've been experiencing with it in between CGs when around 50 - 55% against spacies. Usually these percentages are around the are that you know they can escape the CG so if you read their DI with a WD and u-tilt you can sometimes pull it off, then full-hop to dair or whatever the situation may call.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
I think you guys should use up tilt during your chain grabs more. It's really good, especially around 50%.
I'll try that. Dunno how it'll come out. I'm just afraid that when I utilt, that's the end of mah comboz.

I haven't played smash in a while, and I will do so this Saturday. : D
 

ye25

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
415
Hey shroomed i got a question for you. So i was watching your recent matches at the latest ITT and noticed that against falcon you like to approach somewhat often with uair. I feel like those uairs are coming rly fast so im assuming your using up on control stick and a to do them instead of the cstick. Just wondering, whats your reasoning behind this?
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I know you can u-throw > u-tilt > regrab if they DI the u-tilt away for a certain percent range, kind of like the Fox vs Fox chain grab, but with Doc instead.

If they choose to not DI your u-tilt away, you can either u-tilt more or up-angle f-smash. Both are reasonable options. Delay the u-tilt a bit if you repeat u-tilts (without delaying too long and dropping the combo obviously) because that keeps the opponent's height lower and increases the range where you can follow the opponent with f-smash and other important stuff.

I just don't really see why people uair at 50ish on non-DIed throws. Seems like such a waste.



.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Hey shroomed i got a question for you. So i was watching your recent matches at the latest ITT and noticed that against falcon you like to approach somewhat often with uair. I feel like those uairs are coming rly fast so im assuming your using up on control stick and a to do them instead of the cstick. Just wondering, whats your reasoning behind this?
If they are SH up-airs he's doing, he is probably using the c-stick for those. Shroomed is very good. But I doubt he's doing SH up-airs using the control stick. It's 1000 times easier to just c-stick up-airs.

I know you can u-throw > u-tilt > regrab if they DI the u-tilt away for a certain percent range, kind of like the Fox vs Fox chain grab, but with Doc instead.

If they choose to not DI your u-tilt away, you can either u-tilt more or up-angle f-smash. Both are reasonable options. Delay the u-tilt a bit if you repeat u-tilts (without delaying too long and dropping the combo obviously) because that keeps the opponent's height lower and increases the range where you can follow the opponent with f-smash and other important stuff.

I just don't really see why people uair at 50ish on non-DIed throws. Seems like such a waste.
^^ Very true. This combo works really well. That 'delay' IS really important. If you up-tilt too soon after the upthrow, it gives your opponent a chance to air jump out of the combo.
Up-airing non-DIed throws (are you calling me out? lol) IS a waste since it doesn't lead into anything else most of the time. The only time I up-air non-DIed throws is when I misread DI. :urg:
 

ye25

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
415
You can do the uairs with the control stick if you sh then mash up and a right as you leave the ground. It comes out alot faster than the uair with the cstick. I dunno, seems like hes doing those unless hes moving VERY fast from to the c stick from x or y.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
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Spiral Mountain
^^ Very true. This combo works really well. That 'delay' IS really important. If you up-tilt too soon after the upthrow, it gives your opponent a chance to air jump out of the combo.
Up-airing non-DIed throws (are you calling me out? lol) IS a waste since it doesn't lead into anything else most of the time. The only time I up-air non-DIed throws is when I misread DI. :urg:
I'm not calling you out. I don't mean to call out anyone in particular. It's just a behavior I commonly see and I don't really understand it; if there's a reason people do it, then I would be happy but I just think the up tilts are much better and I don't see them very often if ever.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
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Apr 6, 2008
Messages
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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
You can do the uairs with the control stick if you sh then mash up and a right as you leave the ground. It comes out alot faster than the uair with the cstick. I dunno, seems like hes doing those unless hes moving VERY fast from to the c stick from x or y.
Everytime I've tried that, I end up double jumping, which puts me in an awful spot. Plus, that seems like more work than necessary. C-stick is so easy.

I'm not calling you out.
Didn't think you were, I was just kidding. Though, I still under-used up-tilt in my grab game at the moment.
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
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Yardley, Pennsylvania
I see velocity use utilt when people illusion on to the stage, a lot of times it sets up for kobes. If it happens to get the good comboing part of the hitbox, they probably still go offstage anyway.
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
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Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
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Santa Cruz
U-tilt is an amazing move! I probably do over-use it for sure. If I could get more gimps I'm pretty sure I'd be a super top level player.

Guess I'll just kill people off the top/sides for now. I lost to S2J this past weekend. Went to match 5. Falcon is definitely hard as **** if they play like he did.

Them legs are no joke.
 
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