Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[St. Viers]

I played all doc in the few tourneys I attended, but recently I think my fox has gotten better than my doc.

 

[boss8]

all my chars cept my doc suck balls so i very rarely bust out another char

boss: what makes you go mario?

i go mario cause......idk....i cant decide between him and doc...

i think i can prove that mario and doc go even anyways......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZxoxfTyrcc

 

[JPOBS]

i think people who main or play anyone below high tier exclusively in tourny do it because they havent put enough time into a top tier char, or they just really really really like the char in question. that is if you only "play to win"

what i mean is, if you're good with any char below jiggs, if you switched to a higher tier'd char, you could only get better because the char u are using is intrinsically better.

its no surprise then that if you start off playing only lower tierd char, when you start to use fox for funsies u realize u win more with him lol

tl;dr fox is broken.

 

[otg]

i think people who main or play anyone below high tier exclusively in tourny do it because they havent put enough time into a top tier char, or they just really really really like the char in question. that is if you only "play to win"

That or they just prefer the character? I don't think that using top tiers makes you instantly better, you have to put work into them to be efficient or you just get ***** beacuse anyone who is good has played a billion fox players and a billion falcos etc etc. People put way too much emphasis on the character, and not enough on the players behind them.

Also boss, I'm curious which matchups you would choose Mario over. I've considered using Mario vs. Sheik/Marth, but I tend to cop out and go spacies/ditto cause it's easier in general. We should absorb the mario boards cause no one really posts there and we are active so it would be nice to get some perspective from them.

 

[MaDWaK]

its no surprise then that if you start off playing only lower tierd char, when you start to use fox for funsies u realize u win more with him lol

tl;dr fox is broken.

wow that makes perfect sense lol

just when I thought my fox was legit...

I get scared picking a top tier character in tourney because it feels like my opponent would naturally know more about the matchup then me because they have probably played it numerous times.

 

[Shroomed]

i only pick mario vs sheik (sometimes)

i never switch otherwise

 

[eighteenspikes]

madwak you should have stayed doc vs bzoo yesterday! your fox is pretty legit but doc woulda had that

ok here are some vids, these are all bracket matches lol, be gentle cuz i **** up grabs/combos in some :blush: also i get wrecked vs rat in set 1 but adapt in set 2 so take note of that

Rat vs Eighteenspikes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU45DeX7IQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiTF77FvHP4

Eighteenspikes vs Bzoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmeECtYfsk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOh56iEs7mQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x95JDf_a8gY

Rat vs Eighteenspikes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2-fpL6DCwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVox2s4TG3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94mlEOmFUFM

BONUS
Eighteenspikes vs Mundungu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Fgsw4TCP8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZD-JK5-v4

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

devin i can't tell if your sig is a white girl flashing black or a black girl flashing white. Also, why is she bleeding from the eyes?


edit: 18S is good but almost lost to my teams partner (bzoo)

 

[otg]

OMFG yoshi dittos. I'm so hype for that lol.

gonna watch and edit later.

Daaaamn, those yoshi dittos were pretty ****. He's one of the few characters I don't use, maybe I'll pick him up now. You had a few combos on FoD that were obscene.

 

[eighteenspikes]

yea idk how i lost on battlefield, and i know fd sucks but he banned dreamland, i had no idea where to take him

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea idk how i lost on battlefield, and i know fd sucks but he banned dreamland, i had no idea where to take him

lmao i was going to tell him to take you to dreamland, which he banned. You banned PS which would have been my 2nd suggestion. My 3rd would have been take you straight back to FD which was a close match. I think he made the right decision taking you to KJ64, but you played it better than him.

 

[TemPesT-]

i liked the yoshi dittos :D

 

[AXE 09]

so just curious for all you Doc mains

i, unfortunately, don't fight many Docs. so i was just curious, and i'm asking for obvious reasons....

what do you guys think of the matchup vs pikachu?

 

[Shroomed]

axe, go to R3

play me for a while

i need pika practice you need doc practice

and pika can be chaingrabbed by doc/mario

but that uair will ****in **** doc

 

[P.C. Jona]

nevermind

10

 

[TemPesT-]

so just curious for all you Doc mains

i, unfortunately, don't fight many Docs. so i was just curious, and i'm asking for obvious reasons....

what do you guys think of the matchup vs pikachu?

i hate edgeguarding pikachus but the chaingrab is really easy imo. i've played D Disciple's pika a few times with doc, but idk it's a weird matchup. hate that tail out of shield BS...

 

[otg]

so just curious for all you Doc mains

i, unfortunately, don't fight many Docs. so i was just curious, and i'm asking for obvious reasons....

what do you guys think of the matchup vs pikachu?

I think Doc beasts on pika pretty bad. I'll go into it in more detail later.

 

[boss8]

so just curious for all you Doc mains

i, unfortunately, don't fight many Docs. so i was just curious, and i'm asking for obvious reasons....

what do you guys think of the matchup vs pikachu?

chaingrab....Fsmash GG.....

chaingrab.....KOBE!! GG.....


i fight chudats pikachu and its ****....

 

[VGmasta]

i go mario cause......idk....i cant decide between him and doc...

i think i can prove that mario and doc go even anyways......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZxoxfTyrcc

**** Boss, you make Doc and Mario look broken! I gotta play vs. you sometime. You're the only Doc/Mario player that I see unnecessarily sandbag edgeguarding like that. That walljump meteor spike was .

I get scared picking a top tier character in tourney because it feels like my opponent would naturally know more about the matchup then me because they have probably played it numerous times.

This is one of the amazing perks about being a lower tier. A lot of people can be **** against all the high tiers and then do poorly against lower tiers simply because they don't know the matchup that as well. Hey, I bet that's why Mango lost to Kage (Ganondorf), LOL.

 

[MaDWaK]

so just curious for all you Doc mains

i, unfortunately, don't fight many Docs. so i was just curious, and i'm asking for obvious reasons....

what do you guys think of the matchup vs pikachu?

I stay away from the edge all day, and play a grounded game. I rely on grabs and random KOBE!!'s

edit:

i go mario cause......idk....i cant decide between him and doc...

i think i can prove that mario and doc go even anyways......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZxoxfTyrcc

wtf Boss that mario is godlike. ive never seen a mario play so aggressive, of course I havent seen too many mario players to begin with but still, good ****.

 

[boss8]

i dont play like that at all in turney...im more defensive and mindgamey......and when i start a combo i always try to finish it...and if i cant finish....i will FIND A WAY O_O.....

i need to work on edgegurading....even though its not that hard...im not a pro edgeguarder like DJ nintendo...

 

[AXE 09]

axe, go to R3

play me for a while

i need pika practice you need doc practice

and pika can be chaingrabbed by doc/mario

but that uair will ****in **** doc

DUDE that sounds ****, but

i don't have a ride there -_-

i'm most likely gonna be in cali during winter break. i've been asking for transportation there, but nobody wants to provide it *sob*


lol so doc ***** pikachu with grabs pretty much?

ok so.... don't get grabbed by doc... *takes notes*

 

[boss8]

btw the axe effect combo vid was amazing.....xD

 

[AXE 09]

btw the axe effect combo vid was amazing.....xD

ahaha thanks man ^^ v3ctorman's such a freakin G for making it. all my credit goes to him

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[otg]

lol so doc ***** pikachu with grabs pretty much?

ok so.... don't get grabbed by doc... *takes notes*

That is Doc's biggest form of punishment, but it's not the only one. Doc's CC game > anything pika has. Anytime Doc goes into the air from a neutral position he's asking pika to uair him which is ******** becase doc's recovery is so bad. Anyway, if Doc stays grounded, chaingrabs, cc dsmash/grab, and outrange/prioritze pika with ftilts/cape, pika really can't do much.

The only move Pika has that outranges Doc is fsmash and I can only see that hitting a competent player out of a tech chase. For edgeguarding, I don't really get too many vs. pika because his recovery is so good. But if you knock him far enough out that he has to use the second part of his upB to recover, he dies from a cape from pretty far into the stage... its kinda dumb.

Um, I don't really know how the projectile war plays out.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Pretty sure pills >>>>>> thunder jolt.

 

[AXE 09]

yeah. i don't have much experience, but from what i know, i think pills are a lot better than thunder jolt.

ok so umm... lol kinda funny that i'm coming to the doc boards to ask this stuff, but would you guys think it's safer for me to go falco than pikachu in this matchup?

 

[otg]

100% Falco v. Doc is way better than Pika v. Doc. You go from a disadvantage to advantage, not too shabby. The only problem is that the Doc you are facing (in your case waffles/shroomed) have probably played a billion Falco/Fox's and not so many Pikas.... so you might have the edge if they aren't to comfy with the Pika matchup.

 

[AXE 09]

snaps. alright, thanks for the advice... i guess i'll just try them both out haha. see what happens

i faught bob$ in friendlies at Genesis a bunch. i felt like i was able to handle his doc a lot better with pikachu than i was with falco

 

[otg]

i faught bob$ in friendlies at Genesis a bunch. i felt like i was able to handle his doc a lot better with pikachu than i was with falco

That's good ****, tho not surprising. You never see bob$ juggling any pikas in those DBR vids. I'm guessing your pika is overall >> your spacies? If that's the case then go Pika, especially if you are more comfy with him, thats all that matters.

I also don't mind give "how to beat Doc" advice because that just makes it more challenging for me

 

[AXE 09]

haha awesome, it'd be cool if we played one day =) see you at pound 4???

and i feel that my falco and my pikachu are pretty much even, maybe a SLIGHT advantage with my pikachu, but i use them both pretty equally. here's my pikachu and my falco at the most recent tourney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJlDaFY7j8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqUBKI0oPY

forward knows my pika so well, it's hard to fight him lol

 

[otg]

haha awesome, it'd be cool if we played one day =) see you at pound 4???

and i feel that my falco and my pikachu are pretty much even, maybe a SLIGHT advantage with my pikachu, but i use them both pretty equally. here's my pikachu and my falco at the most recent tourney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJlDaFY7j8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqUBKI0oPY

forward knows my pika so well, it's hard to fight him lol

Word, I'd love to play against you, your Pika is disgusting (you'd probably **** me regardless of the matchup lol). Pound 4 isn't looking too good for now cause of $$ issues and a lack of housing, but who knows, maybe that will change. I'll watch those vids later, I'm heading out right now, but I'm def interesting in seeing new tourney vids

 

[Dogysamich]

lol so doc ***** pikachu with grabs pretty much?

ok so.... don't get grabbed by doc... *takes notes*

Yeah. It's kinda sad. Like, Doc already chaingrabs the most characters in the game to some degree, but the CG on pika is one of the worse ones.

It also doesnt help that, as long as pika has to up+b towards the ledge he's pretty much done, seeing as he cant SS from below the stage.

yeah. i don't have much experience, but from what i know, i think pills are a lot better than thunder jolt.

It really comes down to preference. Jolts, combined with pika's character design, actually wind up being better than pills. If nothing else, Jolts and pika's size, agility, and priority (on like. f.tilt) kind of entice people to jump (which you want as pika normally), or to back the **** up.

ok so umm... lol kinda funny that i'm coming to the doc boards to ask this stuff, but would you guys think it's safer for me to go falco than pikachu in this matchup?

Everybody's going to tell you the normal "oh you should play falco because I can name you 20 good falcos so that character must **** doc by default."

It's not that Pika CANT beat Doc, but yeah, Falco's going to have an "easier" time. I mean really, Falco gets worse chaingrabs and worse edgeguarding that pika EVER gets. It winds up being a situation where Pika needs to know how to fight Doc, as opposed to Doc needing to know how to fight Falco.

__

I'll tell you this, all you REALLY need to do to beat Doc with Pika is put him in the air and stay under him. He's not going to outmaneuver you in the air (especially while you're on the ground), and you're ok to trade with his D.air if it means him getting tailspiked off the stage.

Not to mention that once you get him OFF the stage, just about any pika edgeguard works. Jolts, Double Agility, etc etc. Hell, down angled f.tilt will actually beat EVERYTHING except for a SS (and I mean a magnet hands SS)

_______

I SWEAR I'LL GET BACK TO WORK, I'VE BEEN TOO BUSY GOING AROUND PLAYING DOKAPON KINGDOM AND TEACHING PEOPLE VARIOUS FIGHTING GAMES

Makes me sad that nobody around here will play melee with me.

 

[boss8]

ROFL at OTG's sig.....

 

[Scidadle]

YEAH LOL HE'S NOT THE BEST DOC

caps

 

[otg]

YEAH LOL HE'S NOT THE BEST DOC

caps

(>.>) wtf (<.<)

 

[Scidadle]

Ya u suk OTG

I sed it

2000$ MM nub <3

 

[otg]

Ya u suk OTG

I sed it

2000$ MM nub <3

lmao I'll take that MM right now. My anything vs. your anything, you can choose. I'll even let you play on w'e stage you want, and if I win you only owe me $2

 

[AXE 09]

dang, that sounds like one hecka legit MM lol!

i wanna MM some people too =D

otg, you're freakin tight lol