otg
Smash Master
It comes with being a Muk.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
Scidadle
Smash Champion
My gun vs your anything
BANG YA DONE
BANG YA DONE
Shroomed
Smash Master
next time we're both at the same tourney axe
let's MM
let's MM
boss8
Smash Hero
shroomed lets mm pound 4.......
Shroomed
Smash Master
uh oh, doc dittos
deal boss man lol
deal boss man lol
AXE 09
Smash Master
boss8
Smash Hero
are all u doc players black???? lol and one pika main....
is everyone in here black???
is everyone in here black???
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'm black at heart. Not really. But I tried to be ghetto when I lived in Baltimore City. Lol.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
The VGmasta is black. And most of the Doc mains I know of are black I think. What a coincidence.
otg
Smash Master
I'm as black as they come. And by that I mean I'm a tall white boy with a beard. What's good
MaDWaK
Smash Journeyman
haha, its weird tho. most known doc mains of 2009/10 are like most of the known samus mains in 2005/6, aka all of color.
AXE 09
Smash Master
YOU RACIST!!!!!
lol jk jk jk
it's cool if you say they're all black. "of color" could mean anything, from vietnamese, to mexican, to indian
i'm actually blaxican =)
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
Black General Discussion Thread
boss8
Smash Hero
the blackest doc player is obviously DOGY xD
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
im white as **** man lol.
theartistformerlyknownaswavedash
Smash Cadet
quick question (i may seem like a n00b for askin dis) whats docs best high/top tier matchup?
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
My opinion, hardest to easiest:
=== **** this matchup ===
Sheik
Captain Falcon
=== Really hard ===
Fox
Jigglypuff
=== Not bad ===
Falco
Peach
=== Easy ===
Marth
Ice Climbers
=== **** this matchup ===
Sheik
Captain Falcon
=== Really hard ===
Fox
Jigglypuff
=== Not bad ===
Falco
Peach
=== Easy ===
Marth
Ice Climbers
otg
Smash Master
This list isn't that far off from my opinion, I would just switch a few things around.
Like:
A.) Put Falcon in the "Really Hard" Tier, Sheik deserves her own tier for being gay.
B.) Switch Fox with Falco, Falco is way tougher.
C.) Switch Jiggs with Marth, then put Marth into the Not Bad tier.
So it looks like this Imo (OTG's Hypothetical matchups 1):
=== **** this matchup ===
Sheik
=== Really hard ===
Falco
Captain Falco
Marth
=== Not bad ===
Fox
Peach
Ganon
=== Easy ===
Jiggs
Ice Climbers
I'm even tempted to put either Marth or Falco into the "Not Bad" tier because they are honestly not bad matchups, Fox maybe into easy tier? It depends on how gay he feel likes playing at the time.
This is my list for now, Doc v. Icies is cake.
OTG's SUPER Hypothetical matchup list 2:
=== **** this matchup ===
Sheik
=== Really hard ===
Captain Falcon
Marth
=== Not bad ===
Falco
Peach
Ganon
=== Easy ===
Fox
Jiggs
Ice Climbers
I keep marth up there cause I really dislike that matchup, but I can see it being easy. I really do not mind the Fox/Falco matchups and think they are close to even (despite what Mogwai claims). Doc v. Jiggs/Icies is cake, I'm tempted to put Ganon there too but I really don't play enough **** ganons (hopefully I can get some matches in with Tip either this weekend or the week after). I don't play Peachs enough but I used to think that matchup is horrible but during ROM2 I got used to it, not nearly as bad as I used to think it was.
boss8
Smash Hero
ice climbers arent easy....have u ever played chudat???
the hardest IMO would be shiek...other then that...i find every other matchup 50/50
the hardest IMO would be shiek...other then that...i find every other matchup 50/50
MaDWaK
Smash Journeyman
you guys forgot samus lol
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
Samus isn't top/high tier 
if we included everyone my list would start off like:
=== THIS MATCHUP IS ****ING BUSTED ===
Luigi
=== NO SERIOUSLY ===
Luigi
=== IT'S BULL**** ===
Luigi
if we included everyone my list would start off like: === THIS MATCHUP IS ****ING BUSTED ===
Luigi
=== NO SERIOUSLY ===
Luigi
=== IT'S BULL**** ===
Luigi
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I gonna search for Marth vids vs. all you Docs on here. I don't know why no one else is convinced that Marth is such a ******
.Now instead of calling that section "Easy", I'd prefer to call it evenish (None of these match-ups are easy to me).
=== **** this matchup ===
Sheik
Marth
=== Really hard ===
Captain Falcon
Falco
=== Hard ===
Peach
Fox
=== "Evenish" ===
Jiggs
Ice Climbers
onedayafter7
Smash Apprentice
I heard mario and doc are falco counters. is that true?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
What about this Falcon?
Quick response time, yaaaaaaaay.
All doc mains? Just like some have said, no, but ironically a majority ARE. If not all, atlieast partially.
It's real subjective though, as it really boils down to personal opinion, personal experience, and (to some degree) region.
I'd say.
-Marth is clear cut the worst. 3-7.
-Capfal and Sheik are both 4-6. If anything, Sheik would be 3.5/6.5, but there are a few things that keep her from being marth-bad.
-Samus and Fox are 4.5/5.5.
-Ganon, ICs, and Peach are 5/50. I can understand anybody saying peach is 4.5/5.5 (or even a straight 4/6).
-Jiggs is 6/4.
for the sake of the tierlist not being changed yet.
-DK is 5/5
-Luigi is 6/4
-Mario is 4.5/5.5
I think that covers down to low.
Doc actually gets away from some IC nonsense, and he easily puts them in bad positions (read: forced desyncs). AFAIK, ICs dont even have a CG on doc besides the generic ledge chaingrab and wobbling (unless chu straight up lied to me XD), but he has ways of keeping them from just sliding in at will.
On the other end, it's not like they CANT punish mistakes or anything, seeing as they can punish d.smash with WD dsmash.
It's pretty 50/50 imo.
Neither one of them do bad against falco, although Mario does better in the grand scheme of things.
___
edit: late entry
Hell, if NESNoob was still around, I'd bet $50 against you no problem. XD
Infact, speaking of him, I probably could throw Iori in that category as well. *thinks to self*, and DERF, and cornel (when he's not tryin to be american).
Everybody in here? No.
All doc mains? Just like some have said, no, but ironically a majority ARE. If not all, atlieast partially.
-72, -72, -72.
It's not a noob question at all.
It's real subjective though, as it really boils down to personal opinion, personal experience, and (to some degree) region.
I'd say.
-Marth is clear cut the worst. 3-7.
-Capfal and Sheik are both 4-6. If anything, Sheik would be 3.5/6.5, but there are a few things that keep her from being marth-bad.
-Samus and Fox are 4.5/5.5.
-Ganon, ICs, and Peach are 5/50. I can understand anybody saying peach is 4.5/5.5 (or even a straight 4/6).
-Jiggs is 6/4.
for the sake of the tierlist not being changed yet.
-DK is 5/5
-Luigi is 6/4
-Mario is 4.5/5.5
I think that covers down to low.
I wont say ICs are easy, but they're not hard by any strech. And yes, I've played chu.
Doc actually gets away from some IC nonsense, and he easily puts them in bad positions (read: forced desyncs). AFAIK, ICs dont even have a CG on doc besides the generic ledge chaingrab and wobbling (unless chu straight up lied to me XD), but he has ways of keeping them from just sliding in at will.
On the other end, it's not like they CANT punish mistakes or anything, seeing as they can punish d.smash with WD dsmash.
It's pretty 50/50 imo.
Counter? Na. Some people will actually tell you they're real good against falco, which I can see (read: see, not do, lol XD). But even a soft counter? Na, I couldn't buy that.
Neither one of them do bad against falco, although Mario does better in the grand scheme of things.
___
edit: late entry
maaan, I want you to play gawes or darkrain, or scar (I think he has some doc experience now).
Hell, if NESNoob was still around, I'd bet $50 against you no problem. XD
Infact, speaking of him, I probably could throw Iori in that category as well. *thinks to self*, and DERF, and cornel (when he's not tryin to be american).
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
dang dogy I wish you were around for event52 to bet that against me cuz i beat NES N00b in a crew match 4 stocks apiece lol. i totally coulda taken him back then
ive played scar with doc but thats before i started playing doc to be good with him
i swear on my life that match-up is even
i dont think shroomed ever gets completely destroyed by ss
they way you guys make it seem its impossible
def not as hard as falco/marth
they should be ahead of falcon on a difficulty list
also whats faster?
shield grab or upsmash OoS
does up smash have more forward range then grab?
i swear on my life that match-up is even
i dont think shroomed ever gets completely destroyed by ss
they way you guys make it seem its impossible
def not as hard as falco/marth
they should be ahead of falcon on a difficulty list
also whats faster?
shield grab or upsmash OoS
does up smash have more forward range then grab?
Grab is faster, upsmash probably has more range.
And nobody is making it sound IMPOSSIBLE. I'm saying the same thing I've been saying forever, capfal has the advantage over doc.
And if you want me to be even more specific, when I talk about matchups, I generally talk about one characters ability to run their strats/stop the others vs the other character's ability to.
And nobody is making it sound IMPOSSIBLE. I'm saying the same thing I've been saying forever, capfal has the advantage over doc.
And if you want me to be even more specific, when I talk about matchups, I generally talk about one characters ability to run their strats/stop the others vs the other character's ability to.
unknown522
Some guy
falcon v doc is pretty bad. He has no way down from falcon's u-airs. Even if he manages to trade a d-air / n-air, it's not good.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I know Derf. Derf would prolly wreck you Jona.
I strongly agree Unknown522.
you guys are just bad vs falcon
maybe because i play falcon i know how doc just works him and what to against falcon
you guys should play the match up vice versa to see what its like
play a good doc as falcon and then youll see
idk theres alot of things that just hurt
MAX do you have a flash drive? if we play tomorrow im gonna record and give it to you so you can upload it
were gonna do mad falcon vs doc and then ill switch to doc and you be falcon
and ill destroy you with my 4 tricks
maybe because i play falcon i know how doc just works him and what to against falcon
you guys should play the match up vice versa to see what its like
play a good doc as falcon and then youll see
idk theres alot of things that just hurt
MAX do you have a flash drive? if we play tomorrow im gonna record and give it to you so you can upload it
were gonna do mad falcon vs doc and then ill switch to doc and you be falcon
and ill destroy you with my 4 tricks
otg
Smash Master
This. Someone should honestly teach me to fight Marth. Like I **** marth's who dont know how to fight Doc (which is a surprising amount) but some Marth's in my area are just disgusting and give me a hard time. I know Shroomed and a few others claim it's almost even.... I'd be curious as to why.
Look at it like this.
vs Marth and Sheik, Doc realistically can't do anything to deter them from doing what they want to.
Both of them, however, can pretty much stop Doc from doing ANYTHING.
The reason why Marth is worse than sheik is because, in the event Doc ever lands a grab on Marth, he really only gets one guaranteed hit and then has to make another good read. If he ever lands one on sheik, however, he gets a chaingrab that leads into a f.smash, guarenteed.
Now, one can argue "A doc is never going to grab a sheik", but if you want to say that, you might as well extend that twice as much for marth.
Speaking of grabs, if marth lands a grab on doc, he can always put doc in a bad position. He cant ever KILL doc straight from a grab (unless Doc helps him with bad DI), but he can always put him in a bad position). All sheik ever gets from a grab is one, maybe two hits. Eventually she WILL have kill setups for it, but she cant devastate doc one grab like he can her.
Beyond that, they both are, in large, the same. Marth has more options for stopping you (such as marth being able to flat out stop EVERYTHING you do on recovery where as sheik can stop like, 95%).
The only reason why people say it's even is, like I keep saying, most marths dont like to play the matchup like it should be.
Most marths seem to think it's kool to actually run in and look for grabs and whatnot. That's the kinda stuff you hope for in the matchup because, although getting grabbed by marth sucks, they have to give up their range advantage to do so (and remember, range is one of doc's character flaws.)
Doc/Marth might not be as bad as I make it out to be, but it sure as hell isn't even.
Shroomed
Smash Master
marth is not that big a problem
UNLESS
he stands there and jabs the whole game
then gg u lose cuz u cant do ****
i think it's easier to edgeguard marth than it is to edgeguard spacies lol
but then again, i suck so dont take my word 4 it lol
UNLESS
he stands there and jabs the whole game
then gg u lose cuz u cant do ****
i think it's easier to edgeguard marth than it is to edgeguard spacies lol
but then again, i suck so dont take my word 4 it lol
^^dude that's my line. Except I actually suck.
I dunno though. I have tons of sheik experience, and I don't feel playing a good sheik is anywhere near as bad as playing a good marth, falcon, or fox. In reality, she isn't disjointed, her needles are annoying, but can't flat-out stop you like marth's sword, and the previously mentioned grab situation.
Maybe I have to play M2k's sheik or something to see exactly why it's so bad, but I don't see it.
I'd say
--Very Hard--
Marth
--Hard--
Falcon
Fox
--Roughly Even (slight disadvantage)--
Falco
Sheik
Ganon
Luigi
--Doc's Advantage--
Puff
Peach
Bad Space animal players
Samus
IC
Then again, my playstyle focuses alot on pill camping, pivot grab and f-tilt, and really gay edgeplay--I picked that up from being trashed by dan. Not the most conventional doc XD
EDIT: if the marth jabs all game, just space capes, and win by percent lead. Or, in less specific terms, if the marth is spacing properly, cape. If he starts effing w/ his spacing to mindgame/hit you, punish him for not staying at his range.
I dunno though. I have tons of sheik experience, and I don't feel playing a good sheik is anywhere near as bad as playing a good marth, falcon, or fox. In reality, she isn't disjointed, her needles are annoying, but can't flat-out stop you like marth's sword, and the previously mentioned grab situation.
Maybe I have to play M2k's sheik or something to see exactly why it's so bad, but I don't see it.
I'd say
--Very Hard--
Marth
--Hard--
Falcon
Fox
--Roughly Even (slight disadvantage)--
Falco
Sheik
Ganon
Luigi
--Doc's Advantage--
Puff
Peach
Bad Space animal players
Samus
IC
Then again, my playstyle focuses alot on pill camping, pivot grab and f-tilt, and really gay edgeplay--I picked that up from being trashed by dan. Not the most conventional doc XD
EDIT: if the marth jabs all game, just space capes, and win by percent lead. Or, in less specific terms, if the marth is spacing properly, cape. If he starts effing w/ his spacing to mindgame/hit you, punish him for not staying at his range.