Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[unknown522]

kk posting

get-up + cc grab

jajajajaja

 

[Strong Badam]

try cape away from the stage dbl jump bair at them! probably the dumbest idea of any aerial from the ledge, but just an idea.

excuse me but it's called Super Sheet, not cape.
you guys are wrong all the time omfg.

 

[KirbyKaze]

but super sheet is too long to type and sounds dumb

and if we abbreviate super sheet it becomes ss, which is just confusing and stupid

so take your stupid semantics somewhere else

scrub

 

[Desh]

I always lol , cuz KK on the boards, is so witty and mean, and silly

and when you meett him, hes witty and nice, and silly XD

 

[Dogysamich]

Yea i can waveland onto the ledge no problem, but, the problem is, THAT ALL DOC CAN DO FROM THE LEDGE.

Um.

Ledgehop ->
-AC D.air
-Cape
-Pill (most people dont to this right which is why nobody really thinks of it*)
-U.air (if you read no CC)

*The right way of doing ledgehop pill is the same concept of falco doing ledgehop double laser and getting both lasers on the ground (which is apparently what you're NOT supposed to do with falco, lol).

Point is, you have to drop a lil distance first so that when you come up and pill, it's ground level (instead of doing a high ledgehop and pilling, which gives you SH height.)

try cape away from the stage dbl jump bair at them! probably the dumbest idea of any aerial from the ledge, but just an idea.

It's not dumb, it's just high risk. Real high risk.

regular getup -> cc dtilt

That's actually like, the one time in the world d.tilt doenst blow. And you know it. XD

oh how i wish his dtilt wasnt so slow. XD would be soooo **** near the edge. =p

Hey desh guess what.

D Smash

Total: 37
Hit: 5-6, 14-15
Charge frame: 3

D Tilt

Total: 34
Hit: 5-8

So yeah, not only does have THE EXACT SAME I FRAMES, it's actually THREE FRAMES FASTER OVERALL.

__

Broooooooooooooooooooooooooklyn.

 

[Strong Badam]

but super sheet is too long to type and sounds dumb

and if we abbreviate super sheet it becomes ss, which is just confusing and stupid

so take your stupid semantics somewhere else

scrub

shut up scrub david

 

[JPOBS]

AC dair? auto cancel?

 

[eighteenspikes]

edit: lol i misunderstood dogy's ;post. ok i need something to put here now. heres some ****ty dr mario fanart:

 

[Vulcan55]

Not knowing what to do on the ledge was something that pretty much cost me the tourney I was at yesterday (That, and because I took a Peach to Yoshi's, which in hindsight was a bad idea. The whole stage is a platform for me to be stuck under).
I kept trying to ledge-hop D-air and pill and stuff, but most of the time he'd WD backwards and hit me afterwards. Pull-up D-tilt sounds like a good idea.

 

[Desh]

I have been owned. So badly. *goes back into hiding* XD

 

[Dogysamich]

AC dair? auto cancel?

Yeah. If you ledgehop, immediately DJ (or VERY close to it), and dont FF through the D.air, it will AC. This lets you actually combo into d.smash, b.air, jab, and technically grab. (or u.air for people who want to DI your d.air up). Alot of people want to FFL the d.air, dunno why.

I have been owned. So badly. *goes back into hiding* XD

^_^

 

[unknown522]

Not knowing what to do on the ledge was something that pretty much cost me the tourney I was at yesterday (That, and because I took a Peach to Yoshi's, which in hindsight was a bad idea. The whole stage is a platform for me to be stuck under).
I kept trying to ledge-hop D-air and pill and stuff, but most of the time he'd WD backwards and hit me afterwards. Pull-up D-tilt sounds like a good idea.

Yoshi's vs peach isn't that bad IMO

the last time I played Vwins there (about 3-4 months ago), I won 4 games in a row. Then he won 1 after (I Sd'd twice) and wanted me to play fox, so he can practice against it.

doc's better speed vs peach's lesser ability to camp you there feels really nice for me.

Also, killing her at low percent is awesome too.

Also, you can actually beat he d-smash if you're fully spaced. It's slightly longer than her's (It'll just clink other wise).

 

[Gea]

Dair's usefulness is in not landing while the move is going. Dair -> uair/bair is godly.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

All and any aerials depend on your opponent doing something that can be punished or just not expecting it. Most characters can simply ftilt you out of a ledgehop and you die.

Airdodging past and regular get ups through attacks work fairly well if the person does something.

I am most fond of immediate ledgedashing into grabs/dsmash or trying ledgehop dair. Plenty of people stall on the edge with ledgehop pills but once again its really risky for a small reward. If you feel risky and they are close sometimes just Up +Bing back onto the stage actually works. Especially if there is a platform above to hit them onto.

Seriously though, I can't think of one character who can't embarrass a Doc trying to ledgehop something.

Lol nvm you didnt understand me the way I meant it.

 

[Dogysamich]

I'll read up on some stuff later, but I just want to bring this up now.

HMW is requesting another Doc Conference.

We need to get a date and time for this ****, lol.

Suggestions?

 

[otg]

I'll read up on some stuff later, but I just want to bring this up now.

HMW is requesting another Doc Conference.

We need to get a date and time for this ****, lol.

Suggestions?

Who is around right now? And if not now... what about like tomorrow night or tuesday or something.

 

[VGmasta]

I agree with Gea on the Wavelanding ledgehop to going into sheild asap as Doc's safest ledge option, especially against Jigglypuff's wall of b-airs, or falcon's wall of nairs. You can try stalling with pills, but those things just ***** by the aerials. Caping has rarely worked for me, I usually get knocked right back off of the stage, even when the cape does land.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Whats a doc conference? can i come? XD

EDIT: btw have u guys noticed how fast you can double jump sheet regrab the ledge if you already used the one that keeps your height? It has to have a use for something haha.

 

[otg]

Camping Jiggs doesn't mean running away and shooting pills. It means holding down the center of the stage and using pills to force her to approach. You poke her away, manuvering around platforms and going around to the otherside of need be. If you just try to play runaway from jiggs and throw pills you won't have much success.

 

[VGmasta]

Pill spamming without playing by the edge vs. Jiggs = success! I bet Mango's puff won't even keep up against a good doc!

 

[unknown522]

Camping Jiggs doesn't mean running away and shooting pills. It means holding down the center of the stage and using pills to force her to approach. You poke her away, manuvering around platforms and going around to the otherside of need be. If you just try to play runaway from jiggs and throw pills you won't have much success.

This man gets it.

You camp for control and positional advantage, not damage.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Does anyone know if there are 3 or 4 set heights of pill hops or if its completely dependent on your height up to a certain point and then levels off?

 

[VGmasta]

Does anyone know if there are 3 or 4 set heights of pill hops or if its completely dependent on your height up to a certain point and then levels off?

What's a set height?

 

[Dogysamich]

I agree with Gea on the Wavelanding ledgehop to going into sheild asap as Doc's safest ledge option, especially against Jigglypuff's wall of b-airs, or falcon's wall of nairs. You can try stalling with pills, but those things just ***** by the aerials. Caping has rarely worked for me, I usually get knocked right back off of the stage, even when the cape does land.

You also could just ledgehop to the edge of the stage and shield (ya know, like ganon's do). That's actually another safe option seeing as there's no wavedash involved.

Realistically if somebody reads you wavelanding onto the stage into shield, they outta be grabbing you.

I DUNNO, MAYBE THAT JUST HAPPENS TO ME LOL

EDIT: btw have u guys noticed how fast you can double jump sheet regrab the ledge if you already used the one that keeps your height? It has to have a use for something haha.

Its useful for people who want to come right near the ledge and try to do something to beat a ledge move (i.e. CC, shield, etc etc).

The problem is, if somebody calls you doing it, you die (because you double jump)

Camping Jiggs doesn't mean running away and shooting pills. It means holding down the center of the stage and using pills to force her to approach. You poke her away, manuvering around platforms and going around to the otherside of need be. If you just try to play runaway from jiggs and throw pills you won't have much success.

otg you know what ima say. ^_^

Does anyone know if there are 3 or 4 set heights of pill hops or if its completely dependent on your height up to a certain point and then levels off?

For what you care about there are 3.

Realistically, pills work like this; they will bounce back to whatever height you throw them at (or they will try to)

So if you throw them from the ground, it's going to stay pretty much at doc's height. If you FH a pill, it's going to bounce back up to where Doc was when he threw it, etc etc.

Because of this, doing able to do stuff like dash cancelled pills and SHFF pills is pretty important. Just about any character in the game can literally run under FH pills, but the lower you throw it, the hardest it gets (obviously)

Just for the record (and for what you really care about), Marth can run under ground pills, although the timing is hard for him.

 

[otg]

lol love you dogy.

 

[unknown522]

For what you care about there are 3.


Because of this, doing able to do stuff like dash cancelled pills and SHFF pills is pretty important. Just about any character in the game can literally run under FH pills, but the lower you throw it, the hardest it gets (obviously)

Just for the record (and for what you really care about), Marth can run under ground pills, although the timing is hard for him.

Thet's why when I was watching M2K vs boss, M2K kept doing FH pill, DJ pill, then 1 landing.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Alsooooooooooooooooo

You can get some whack angles by falling through platforms while pilling.

Like, I've had one go almost straight up.

But it's weird. I dunno how to do it consistently. I ~think~ fallspeed is taken into account, but I'm not sure.

ALSO

I started practicing Marvel.

That game is too crazy. Jill has a basic BnB for 1/2 life, it's easy, and she's not even upper mid tier.

Jill/Cyke/Sent

omfg

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I was wondering because I've been working on creating pill traps in certain situations for various characters, and I wanted to know how many variations could go into the setup.

 

[P.C. Jona]

pill traps?
i mean pills are not that hard to just cancel out with a move

youll never pill trap a marth
sheik and fox's nair will **** pills too
falcons nair also

its a good idea but i think its just not applicable in a real game

 

[KirbyKaze]

shut up scrub david

what a logical thoughtful point

have you considered trying for a darwin award?

 

[Gea]

I unno. Pill traps are only applicable in a few places imo.

First is getting someone to shield. Even if a Marth can just swat the pill away, sometimes people just shield instead of retreating fair/jab. He's near the edge? See if you can get him to shield. Granted usually there are better options (say, ftilting if he's near the edge), but the setup in itself isn't bad.

Platforms. Bounce 'em under people, make it hard to get down, control the stage as much as possible.

As far as using heights to your advantage, most characters have blindspots where their primary canceling move isn't as effective. Unfortunately, this is usually above them (or not at all for top tiers, really). Personally, if the character is not Fox, Falco, or Falcon, (and being REALLY careful with sheik/marth) I find sh pills with fullhopped ones mixed in from a safe distance to be an effective "wall," then get them in a rhythm of this and randomly follow up a pill with an aerial. Isn't as effective as you'd hope but I really suggest this against Jiggz and Peach as a way to land fairs/uairs. Just be patient.

 

[otg]

wtf is a pill trap? Don't y'all know how limited this projectile is by the fact that it doesn't cancel when you touch the ground? Thats a big fing deal. They move slow, get beaten out and clank with anything and leave Doc super vulnerable if you overuse and become to predictable with them.

Aka: use them sparingly and JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST right, and you'll ****. Also, on platform stages you can position yourself so pills fall right into sweetspot range... thats pretty ****.

 

[Dogysamich]

Thet's why when I was watching M2K vs boss, M2K kept doing FH pill, DJ pill, then 1 landing.

Yeah. or the other way around (one on the ground and then jump).

If you keep doing FH -> ground pill, all you're asking somebody to do is come in when you FH. They have plenty of time to stop if you mean to do something else.

I started practicing Marvel.

That game is too crazy. Jill has a basic BnB for 1/2 life, it's easy, and she's not even upper mid tier.

Jill/Cyke/Sent

omfg

Yeah she's not upper mid, she's low. More importantly, she's not high, meaning she's basically unplayable in that game. XD Only real perks she has is the screen-scroll infinite (i forget what it's called) and the fact that she can setup snapback infinite.

pill traps?
i mean pills are not that hard to just cancel out with a move

youll never pill trap a marth
sheik and fox's nair will **** pills too
falcons nair also

its a good idea but i think its just not applicable in a real game

Actually, it's real applicable if somebody wants to swing at it from the wrong distance. It's just baiting an attack.

I love falcons who want to nair through pills ALL the time.

They move slow, get beaten out and clank with anything and leave Doc super vulnerable if you overuse and become to predictable with them.

Them moving slow isnt exactly a bad thing, clanking with everything can be bad if you really want your damage from pills but *points up* get setup stuff, and you're vunerable if you dont understand the concept of spacing.

I mean, pills arent the best projectile in the game by any stretch of the imagination, but they're not bad at all.

__

"use pills sparingly" really exists on like, YS and FoD (for neutrals). For most other stages, you can actually spam pills pretty hard if you keep your spacing.

... of course that spacing changes with character.

___

DOC CONFERENCE
start throwing some dates out there. I swear HMW is gunna blow up my cpu if this doenst happen. XD

 

[P.C. Jona]

Actually, it's real applicable if somebody wants to swing at it from the wrong distance. It's just baiting an attack.

I love falcons who want to nair through pills ALL the time.

ive honestly never tried to nair through pills all the time, running away or just jumping over them is easy enough
pills are nothing but a delay to the inevitable

i dont understand how anyone could be trapped by pills even near the edge when you can just wd back and grab the edge

i just dont see it

 

[Vulcan55]

Wtf is a Doc conference?

 

[Gea]

Pills limit options and force mistakes. Everything else is a plus. You can say "well yes, they can nair through them all" but that's forcing them to nair.

Yeah, its laggy and not the best projectile for following up but have you ever just spammed to hell between up close fighting? It frustrates and wears down people. Plus each pill that actually hits... that adds up.

I'm the first to admit I don't use pills as much as I should, but wow, they aren't useless by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wtf is a Doc conference?

It's a conference. Amongst Doctors.

 

[soap]

ive honestly never tried to nair through pills all the time, running away or just jumping over them is easy enough
pills are nothing but a delay to the inevitable

i dont understand how anyone could be trapped by pills even near the edge when you can just wd back and grab the edge

i just dont see it

by grabbing the edge u r trapping yourself

 

[P.C. Jona]

Pills limit options and force mistakes. Everything else is a plus. You can say "well yes, they can nair through them all" but that's forcing them to nair.

Yeah, its laggy and not the best projectile for following up but have you ever just spammed to hell between up close fighting? It frustrates and wears down people. Plus each pill that actually hits... that adds up.

I'm the first to admit I don't use pills as much as I should, but wow, they aren't useless by any stretch of the imagination.

theyre not useless, i agree

but they have to be the worst projectile in the game

its not something everyone's in the character specific asking

how do i avoid pills

and if they do its probly a noob

pills suck

someone should watch a random match and get the hit%

cuz itll be like 2%

by grabbing the edge u r trapping yourself

hardly

 

[otg]

this website was a better place with you banned.