COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

shanus · Jan 16, 2009

leafgreen386 said:
Wait, what? I thought we were still up in the air about whether we'd just be weakening the stale moves system or if we were going to just remove it completely. Personally, I think the ideal solution (if making stale moves only apply to damage is not possible) is a +.05 bonus for fresh moves and no penalty for non-fresh moves. You shouldn't be punished for using your moves, but it almost feels wrong to completely take away the whole mindset of "fresh moves kill easier."

Well, good thing we are talking about it then! Personally I would just like to see it apply it only to damage as well, but if not, I guess the .05 could be nice to fresh only as well.

Almas · Jan 16, 2009

No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus [spunit262, 1 line]
02FC098A 00110000

Should work. You can throw in a second line if you want to change the fresh bonus.

Change Fresh Bonus [spunit262]
04FC0988 XXXXXXXX

leafgreen386 · Jan 16, 2009

Almas said:
No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus [spunit262, 1 line]
02FC098A 00110000

Should work. You can throw in a second line if you want to change the fresh bonus.

Change Fresh Bonus [spunit262]
04FC0988 XXXXXXXX

Sweet. One liner. *adds to code manager*

Team Giza · Jan 16, 2009

Dark Sonic said:
What's the latest shieldstun code and values that people are testing right now (can I get it in code form so I could just copy paste it please)? Which one was it that made Fox's lasers lock shields ( I want that one please)

Code:

Shieldstun 13/22/5
C28753FC 00000005
83810034 8083013C
2C040000 41810014
1F9C000D 3B9C0016
38800005 7F9C23D6
60000000 00000000

shanus · Jan 16, 2009

Team Giza said:

I tried it out and it still felt like too much to me. I played for about 4 hours last night with another skilled player and the amount of shield grabbing happening was substantially less with 11/22/5. I don't think we need it to be so high, but we'll see what the general consensus is.

Edit: Nice work Almas, I'll have to try it out in my next update.

MookieRah · Jan 16, 2009

Make sure Kupo puts that on the main page right under the existing "no stale moves" code.

kupo15 · Jan 16, 2009

Added......

Zilactic · Jan 16, 2009

wait im confused, are we going to to end up using 0 or 1 buffer?

Finns7 · Jan 16, 2009

Use 1 buffer you could also use 0 but it takes away key gameplay mechanics imo.

BEES · Jan 16, 2009

CyberGlitch said:
No ASL - I'm still not convinced this is best for Brawl+. I'm not sure if it helps balance the characters at all, or makes them worse. This code is also a turn off for many who'd be interested in Brawl+. If you want one big reason why a surprising number of people disaprove of this project, this is one of them.

After some examination of ASL, I'm inclined to agree. Some recoveries get gimped beyond use with it. It does not even appear possible to get back to the edge with Diddy. Others are unaffected by the code. And strategically I think it adds nothing. Edgeguarding becomes a zero-thought endeavor. It's too easy. There are other applications for ledge-teching. There's no need to have to use it every time to get back.

I'm also curious about the buffer code. What specifically was wrong with the buffer system to begin with?

Jiangjunizzy · Jan 16, 2009

no ASL is the best thing to happen to brawl, you guys are crazy... the only thing that needs to be fixed is diddy's recovery.

leafgreen386 · Jan 16, 2009

How are there other applications for ledgeteching besides... you know... TECHING AN ATTACK WHILE YOU'RE BEING HIT NEXT TO THE STAGE? If you space your recovery right, ledgeteching should only be needed against certain attacks. The range you have to grab the ledge is much bigger in brawl than it was in melee, so you shouldn't be having that big of a problem coming back.

Although you say that edgeguarding becomes a zero thought endeavor with no ASL, I could say the same thing about recovering with ASL. All you need to do is get any distance below the ledge and hit upB. You'll make it back 99% of the time.

Diddy's recovery is the only one that becomes near unusuable with the code, and it can be fixed. I'm not really seeing how you can say "some recoveries" when the number of recoveries that actually do get hit hard amounts to... 1.

KayJay · Jan 16, 2009

Is there a way to shorten the dash speed code? I don't need the fast fall and short hop in it.

cAm8ooo · Jan 16, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
no ASL is the best thing to happen to brawl, you guys are crazy... the only thing that needs to be fixed is diddy's recovery.

Diddy's goin to be **** in brawl+. His combos mixed with his bananas r going to **** face even more. Maybe its a good thing he has a bad weakness now.

Jiangjunizzy · Jan 16, 2009

i agree, cAm, i'm starting to suspect diddy's recovery isn't really that bad. if you take a little bit of time, you can get back to the stage from much farther than most characters. plus, when does get back onto the stage he has hardly any downtime.. i think it balances him out nicely.

plus, he has forward B.

KayJay · Jan 16, 2009

Even with no good sweetspot option, diddys chance to recover safely is like 3 times bigger than Link's is. >.>

shanus · Jan 16, 2009

diddy is ridiculous as is now, his weakness is his recovery. We just need ledgeteching IMO. No ASL is fantastic. You could make an analogy to vanilla brawl with olimar. Olimar can recover pretty well despite his terrible up+b, but his strength comes in that you need to first get him off the ledge to begin with. Your crying wolf yet you claimed yourself you havent even used no ASL for that long.

Also, no buffer or 1 buffer adds so much more control, anyone who doesnt like it leaves me a bit confused.

osh77 · Jan 16, 2009

Is there a standalone dash speed modifier that anyone has?

I've been searching the forums and can't find anything like it. I was trying to use the all in one sh,ff, ds multiplier, but for some reason it makes my system freeze up when I try to load a level.

shanus · Jan 16, 2009

osh77 said:
Is there a standalone dash speed modifier that anyone has?

I've been searching the forums and can't find anything like it. I was trying to use the all in one sh,ff, ds multiplier, but for some reason it makes my system freeze up when I try to load a level.

Have you gone over your line limit?

Here is a copy of mine at dash speed +10% no changes to short hop or FF speed:

Code:

045A930C 3F800000
045A9304 3F800000
045A9308 3F8CCCCC
C285765C 00000008
3FC0805A 3BDE7304
2C002F20 4082000C
C3FE2000 EC3F0072
2C002F00 4082000C
C3FE2004 EC3F0072
2C002F5C 4082000C
C3FE2008 EC3F0072
4E800020 00000000

cAm8ooo · Jan 16, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
i agree, cAm, i'm starting to suspect diddy's recovery isn't really that bad. if you take a little bit of time, you can get back to the stage from much farther than most characters. plus, when does get back onto the stage he has hardly any downtime.. i think it balances him out nicely.

plus, he has forward B.

Exactly. Fixing his recovery could just be making another metaknight considering hitstun greatly reduces his main weakness in vanilla brawl, getting the KO. Getting a kill should no longer be a problem for him.

osh77 · Jan 16, 2009

well originally i did screw up on the amount of lines before, but since then ive been calculating every time to make sure that wasn't the problem

Thank you for the quick reply.

Alopex · Jan 16, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
i agree, cAm, i'm starting to suspect diddy's recovery isn't really that bad. if you take a little bit of time, you can get back to the stage from much farther than most characters. plus, when does get back onto the stage he has hardly any downtime.. i think it balances him out nicely.

plus, he has forward B.

cAm8ooo said:
Exactly. Fixing his recovery could just be making another metaknight considering hitstun greatly reduces his main weakness in vanilla brawl, getting the KO. Getting a kill should no longer be a problem for him.

What? No.

That's one of the most absurd things I've heard in this thread, no offense meant.

Snake is a huge threat and no one here would have a problem with fixing the grabbed Cypher glitch.

You don't balance a character by giving them a unique disadvantage that only they have to deal with and no else in the cast.
Even Olimar isn't that singled out.

The notion that Diddy Kong might perhaps potentially maybe be a high tier character in Brawl+ doesn't at all justify completely breaking his UpB.

Hey, how about we make it so that Captain Falcon's UpB never grabs the ledge? I think we all agree he's a pretty big threat in Brawl+. We're perfectly justified in wrecking his recovery options too. Besides, he has SideB.

No.

We're not going to go around wrecking stuff and then trying to defend those actions subjectively.

We put everyone on the same scale and then we tweak the things that cause the actual problems. We don't just accept collateral damage and then say "Ah, no big".

MookieRah · Jan 16, 2009

Although you say that edgeguarding becomes a zero thought endeavor with no ASL, I could say the same thing about recovering with ASL. All you need to do is get any distance below the ledge and hit upB. You'll make it back 99% of the time.

Pretty much. The good thing about no ASL is that you actually have to think about your recovery a bit as opposed to just pressing upB. I like that it isn't as harsh as melee's system, cause it did make things terrible for a good many characters.

Hey, how about we make it so that Captain Falcon's UpB never grabs the ledge? I think we all agree he's a pretty big threat in Brawl+. We're perfectly justified in wrecking his recovery too.

While I'm not sure on the recovery issue with other characters, I will say that CF is probably overhyped. He's good, but I honestly think he'll just be upper tier, like how he was in melee.

CountKaiser · Jan 16, 2009

Guys, I'm having a problem.

I'm trying to get my hitstun to 9% or 8%, but every time I do that, the hitstun glitches and people are unable to move for almost 2 seconds after a strong hit. Currently, I'm using

Dash Dance
No ASL
ShieldStun(11/22/5)
SH/Dash/FF(1.0/1.15/1.1)
Up/Down Grav(1.05/1.1)
Dash Cancel
Buffer(0 frames)
No Tripping
Infinite Replays
Shield Gain(0.5)
Lagless Edges(24 line version)

What's weird is that it works at 10% and at percentages of 5 and lower.

If anyone has a similar codeset that doesn't glitch, could you post the txt file for it?

Finns7 · Jan 16, 2009

Why is everyone talking about tiers now with brawl+, there havnt been any Official tournys with a finished codeset yet.

spunit262 · Jan 16, 2009

CountKaiser said:
Guys, I'm having a problem.

I'm trying to get my hitstun to 9% or 8%, but every time I do that, the hitstun glitches and people are unable to move for almost 2 seconds after a strong hit. Currently, I'm using

Dash Dance
No ASL
ShieldStun(11/22/5)
SH/Dash/FF(1.0/1.15/1.1)
Up/Down Grav(1.05/1.1)
Dash Cancel
Buffer(0 frames)
No Tripping
Infinite Replays
Shield Gain(0.5)
Lagless Edges(24 line version)

What's weird is that it works at 10% and at percentages of 5 and lower.

If anyone has a similar codeset that doesn't glitch, could you post the txt file for it?

Are you using the right values?
3EFAE148 +9%
3EF5C28F +8%

kupo15 · Jan 16, 2009

CountKaiser said:
Guys, I'm having a problem.

I'm trying to get my hitstun to 9% or 8%, but every time I do that, the hitstun glitches and people are unable to move for almost 2 seconds after a strong hit. Currently, I'm using

Dash Dance
No ASL
ShieldStun(11/22/5)
SH/Dash/FF(1.0/1.15/1.1)
Up/Down Grav(1.05/1.1)
Dash Cancel
Buffer(0 frames)
No Tripping
Infinite Replays
Shield Gain(0.5)
Lagless Edges(24 line version)

What's weird is that it works at 10% and at percentages of 5 and lower.

If anyone has a similar codeset that doesn't glitch, could you post the txt file for it?

It must be an outdated SH/dash/FF code. If that is the case then why does everyone not listen and update their files with the most current one? That problem was fixed ages ago...

CountKaiser · Jan 16, 2009

I doubt that it's outdated, as this is straight from your OP, kupo.

It is the wrong value. I'm using 3F666666 for 9%. If I want to change hitstun,, is there a table for it somewhere? 0.09, which is actually 9%, yields 3DB851EB.

Dan_X · Jan 16, 2009

I'm confused, what does this do as opposed to stale no stale moves?

No stale moves with a fresh bonus 1 line (spunit262)
02FC098A 00110000

I'd assume that it rewards you with a slight bit more knockback/damage if the move is fresh. Is that the case? Could someone explain this?

KayJay · Jan 16, 2009

CountKaiser said:
I doubt that it's outdated, as this is straight from your txt file, kupo.

It is the wrong value. I'm using 3F666666 for 9%. If I want to change hitstun,, is there a table for it somewhere? 0.09, which is actually 9%, yields 3DB851EB.

+9% Hitstun = 0.49 = 3EFAE148

spunit262 · Jan 16, 2009

CountKaiser said:
I doubt that it's outdated, as this is straight from your txt file, kupo.

It is the wrong value. I'm using 3F666666 for 9%. If I want to change hitstun,, is there a table for it somewhere? 0.09, which is actually 9%, yields 3DB851EB.

3F666666 is .90. +9% is .40+.09=.49 (3EFAE148)

GPDP · Jan 16, 2009

KayJay said:
+9% Hitstun = 0.49 = 3EFAE148

There's the problem.

leafgreen386 · Jan 16, 2009

CountKaiser said:
I doubt that it's outdated, as this is straight from your txt file, kupo.

It is the wrong value. I'm using 3F666666 for 9%. If I want to change hitstun,, is there a table for it somewhere? 0.09, which is actually 9%, yields 3DB851EB.

Ah, and this is exactly the reason why we should have scrapped the notation we use for hitstun long ago. 3F666666 gives a multiplier of .9 (roughly), which is over twice the game's natural hitstun. Hitstun has a default value of .4 in brawl. The term "9%" means to add .09 to the default, resulting in a decimal value of .49. Similarly, "10%" means to add .10 to the default, resulting in the decimal value of .50.

edit: Beaten. Twice. lol

@Orca: Basically, if a move is fresh, it still has the 1.05x bonus it does in regular brawl, but if it isn't, then it's the same as the no stale moves code, and it's just a multiplier of 1.

Almas · Jan 16, 2009

A move that hasn't been used for the past 9 moves gains a 5% bonus to damage and knockback using Brawl's system. Every move which has been used in the past 9 moves does normal damage.

I'm hoping to do some research tonight to get towards the air codes y'all are hankering for. Are there any effects in the game which increase one's air speed?

Jiangjunizzy · Jan 16, 2009

here ya go

kupo15 · Jan 16, 2009

Added

I need a place to upload a video because yt muted the music to my newest montage video

GPDP · Jan 16, 2009

Almas said:
A move that hasn't been used for the past 9 moves gains a 5% bonus to damage and knockback using Brawl's system. Every move which has been used in the past 9 moves does normal damage.

I'm hoping to do some research tonight to get towards the air codes y'all are hankering for. Are there any effects in the game which increase one's air speed?

Try the wind effects in Pictochat.

kupo15 · Jan 16, 2009

GPDP said:
Try the wind effects in Pictochat.

does that affect when you get hit? We don't want you to fly even further away

SketchHurricane · Jan 16, 2009

I'm also thinking we should scrap the % notation for hitstun. I kinda regret starting that notation up now - It wasn't a big deal when there was only a small number of testers and they already knew what it really meant, plus it was just a quick easy way to think about it. Now that we have so many more people coming in to try stuff, it's really not a good idea to falsely label things via percent. The main reason is because now that we have codes that actually correctly label things as percents, it clashes with the EZ% notation that hitstun uses and will definitely confuse newcomers.

So there you have it. The scumbag that started the % notation official supports discontinuing it :chuckle:

kupo15 · Jan 16, 2009

Two matches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1j2izXGPeY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvk1l9EUWnI

Montage
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/8Rweqc4SADM.html

COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Dirty camper

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash

Smash Hero

Smash Cadet

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Dirty camper

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Cadet

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Ace

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Dirty camper

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Information

Network