COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[SketchHurricane]

Two matches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1j2izXGPeY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvk1l9EUWnI

Montage
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/8Rweqc4SADM.html

Very nice matches once again, Kupo. I'll check out the montage now.

 

[Dan_X]

Montage
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/8Rweqc4SADM.html

Awesome montage! I love how the focus of the montage was to showcase characters who before Brawl+ sucked! Nice job Kupo!

 

[lamelikemike]

good matches, kupo, i wish i had a way of recording some of mine, i got off a diddy pillar combo on a DK CPU (which isn't honestly that much of an accoplishment, but it looks cool)


anyway, i just wanted to put in my two cents about the diddy recovery thing as he is my main.

I love diddy, whenever i play DK Country, i play as diddy, as soon as i opened brawl i played diddy, he is my favorite character period. And I am starting to lean towards fox and TL in B+

I have gotten ok at recovery with no sweetspot, and yes he still has a decent overall recovery, and a very good horizontal recovery. my big beef with the current code is, I constantly find myself being punished for a perfectly aimed barrel blast, and its frustrating as hell to be on your way to an awesome 3 stock victory, only to lose a stock(or several) for being aggressive and chasing off the stage.

the no ASL is meant to give the player who knocks his opponent of the edge more of an advantage, not to punish players for being aggressive.

in my experience, diddy kongs up-b is the only flaw with the current code.

maybe there is a way the explosion from the up-b could be changed to just entering your "falling helplessly" animation, that would keep the intended no ASL effect while keeping Diddy fun.

 

[kupo15]

Awesome montage! I love how the focus of the montage was to showcase characters who before Brawl+ sucked! Nice job Kupo!

Thanks! xD

good matches, kupo, i wish i had a way of recording some of mine, i got off a diddy pillar combo on a DK CPU (which isn't honestly that much of an accoplishment, but it looks cool)


anyway, i just wanted to put in my two cents about the diddy recovery thing as he is my main.

I love diddy, whenever i play DK Country, i play as diddy, as soon as i opened brawl i played diddy, he is my favorite character period. And I am starting to lean towards fox and TL in B+

I have gotten ok at recovery with no sweetspot, and yes he still has a decent overall recovery, and a very good horizontal recovery. my big beef with the current code is, I constantly find myself being punished for a perfectly aimed barrel blast, and its frustrating as hell to be on your way to an awesome 3 stock victory, only to lose a stock(or several) for being aggressive and chasing off the stage.

the no ASL is meant to give the player who knocks his opponent of the edge more of an advantage, not to punish players for being aggressive.

in my experience, diddy kongs up-b is the only flaw with the current code.

Thanks!

Why don't you just aim directly on the stage?

 

[lamelikemike]

i do aim onto the stage when my opponent is not standing there waiting to **** me, i just wish it was like fox/falco up-b where you would still be vulnerable floating for a bit, but you wouldn't explode and die


***EDIT***

hey kupo, while your on here, have you updated your gct/text file from the OP recently, and could you possibly put a. "AS OF 01/15/09" type thing ,next to it, because i can't keep up every day all the time with this thread, but i would like to stay up to date on new code.

 

[spunit262]

I think I'm going to try this now. What code have been updated since the gct/text file was last updated? How good are CPUs in Brawl+ as they're the only think I have to play against.

Also kupo the default for the power shield window is 4 not 8.

 

[GPDP]

I think I'm going to try this now. What code have been updated since the gct/text file was last updated? How good are CPUs in Brawl+ as they're the only think I have to play against.

Surprisingly good. They are programmed to edge guard like champs, despite vanilla Brawl's ASL. Sometimes they'll even combo.

 

[zxeon]

You should crank up the downward gravity to 1.2 and use a little extra fastfall kupo. It's pretty cool.

 

[lamelikemike]

I think I'm going to try this now. What code have been updated since the gct/text file was last updated? How good are CPUs in Brawl+ as they're the only think I have to play against.

Also kupo the default for the power shield window is 4 not 8.

as long as you stick with Brawl style air dodge they will present a decent challenge, at least until you learn the ins and outs of your character in Brawl+, and yes learn fast to sweet spot again, because they will **** you if you over shoot ever recovery.

there is a video on YTube of a guy playing comps that do some cool things uncommon CPUs, if i can find them i will link them. in an edit of this post.'


**edit**
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bKMThHJjl4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFtX7TFS_o

 

[zxeon]

I think I'm going to try this now. What code have been updated since the gct/text file was last updated? How good are CPUs in Brawl+ as they're the only think I have to play against.

Look out for CPU Game & Watch. He's a b*stard.

 

[spunit262]

My first was DK vs. lv 7 Jigglypuff. I barely won, I normally play against level 8s. I feels different, but at the same time it feels the same.

Edit: Second time was Jigglypuff vs. lv7 Lucario. It 2 stocked him.

I'm going check Captain Falcon next, instead of using random.

 

[Alopex]

Why don't you just aim directly on the stage?

You're missing the point, kupo. I'm going to assume to missed my previous post, so voila:

i agree, cAm, i'm starting to suspect diddy's recovery isn't really that bad. if you take a little bit of time, you can get back to the stage from much farther than most characters. plus, when does get back onto the stage he has hardly any downtime.. i think it balances him out nicely.

plus, he has forward B.

Exactly. Fixing his recovery could just be making another metaknight considering hitstun greatly reduces his main weakness in vanilla brawl, getting the KO. Getting a kill should no longer be a problem for him.

What? No.

That's one of the most absurd things I've heard in this thread, no offense meant.

Snake is a huge threat and no one here would have a problem with fixing the grabbed Cypher glitch.

You don't balance a character by giving them a unique disadvantage that only they have to deal with and no else in the cast.
Even Olimar isn't that singled out.

The notion that Diddy Kong might perhaps potentially maybe be a high tier character in Brawl+ doesn't at all justify completely breaking his UpB.

Hey, how about we make it so that Captain Falcon's UpB never grabs the ledge? I think we all agree he's a pretty big threat in Brawl+. We're perfectly justified in wrecking his recovery options too. Besides, he has SideB.

No.

We're not going to go around wrecking stuff and then trying to defend those actions subjectively.

We put everyone on the same scale and then we tweak the things that cause the actual problems. We don't just accept collateral damage and then say "Ah, no big".

Sure, he should aim for the stage UNTIL we fix it, but the ignorance and arrogance behind telling someone to "Learn to play with something we broke and ain't fixing" is just unacceptable.





EDIT:

Also kupo the default for the power shield window is 4 not 8.

Well that will explain why using 4 frames didn't feel much different...

 

[zxeon]

Diddy's upB isn't broken. He can still recover It just sucks.

 

[Alopex]

No, it's broken. You go straight at the ledge and he just blows up and dies. Any other character will live if they make it to the ledge and there is no edgeguard.

Diddy will die.

It wasn't like that before, meaning we broke it.

Like I said, just because he CAN recover a different way, doesn't mean we should forcibly limit his options.


What, we're adamant about fixing the Triple Jump glitch lag for Falcon's UpB but we're just going to let this MUCH larger damage to Diddy slide untouched?

You gotta be kidding me.

This is not Captain Falcon+!

 

[Osi]

I haven't had many issues on diddy off the edge. The up B is a little harder to use, but he still has the side B option at times. I know it hurts him a bit, but with how much he gains from hitstun and being able to spike on the edge because of ASL it kinda balances itself out to me.

Also I do not use the captain falcon up B fix. That is the downside he gets for receiving all the buffs hehe. I wouldn't waste code space on fixing something character specific that didn't break the character.

 

[Alopex]

I can tell no one is reading what I'm saying when they keep bringing up the same points I've already discussed and don't acknowledge any of the points I've made.

 

[goodoldganon]

After playing a few days with no ASL I can say I just don't like it. It doesn't really add any more depth to the game and it makes edge guarding way to easy. Most characters can chase an opponent quite far off the side of the stage so there is some skill in that type of edge guarding. Plus doesn't it take up a decent amount of code lines?

I feel we should either start up a topic about it and have a debate about it, or I wouldn't mind having one right here in the topic.

P.S. I agree with you Alopex. I don't understand what people don't get. It would be like saying the Patriots can't play with Tom Brady for all 4 quarters of a game. Sure they are still a good team without him, but why have such a stipulation. (Not the best example but w/e).

 

[wazgood]

kupo, you should post any changes to your codeset, in addition to adding the date

 

[kupo15]

@alopex

The triple jump was for everyone or almost everyone but I think diddy should be fixed anyway.

To whomever this applies:
Updated

Another match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HgFTUEJJ2s

 

[Osi]

I can tell no one is reading what I'm saying when they keep bringing up the same points I've already discussed and don't acknowledge any of the points I've made.

Yea I posted mine right after yours lol, was in the chat window writing>.<. You covered most of my post in the one you did, like the side B thing. Don't worry Alopex I did go back and read yours^^.

 

[Almas]

I have found a way to change acceleration into a dash, if anyone cares.

 

[Alopex]

@alopex

The triple jump was for everyone or almost everyone but I think diddy should be fixed anyway.

But the current TJG fix codes fixes it for everyone but Captain Falcon, right? The so-called YES! lag still exists with that code.

If that's not fixed, there's an outcry.

If Diddy's UpB is left broken, it's meh.

I'm glad you see the double standard in that and want to get both fixed, because I think it's important that we treat all characters with equal grace.

I mean, I can't stand Snake, but I still think it's important that his Cypher grab glitch be removed even though that's a technical buff for him. He deserves the grace, like every character deserves it, to have things working properly.

 

[zxeon]

After playing a few days with no ASL I can say I just don't like it. It doesn't really add any more depth to the game and it makes edge guarding way to easy. Most characters can chase an opponent quite far off the side of the stage so there is some skill in that type of edge guarding. Plus doesn't it take up a decent amount of code lines?

I feel we should either start up a topic about it and have a debate about it, or I wouldn't mind having one right here in the topic.

P.S. I agree with you Alopex. I don't understand what people don't get. It would be like saying the Patriots can't play with Tom Brady for all 4 quarters of a game. Sure they are still a good team without him, but why have such a stipulation. (Not the best example but w/e).

With Snap on ledges there is no such thing as edgeguarding and it does add depth.

 

[kupo15]

But the current TJG fix codes fixes it for everyone but Captain Falcon, right? The so-called YES! lag still exists with that code.

If that's not fixed, there's an outcry.

If Diddy's UpB is left broken, it's meh.

I'm glad you see the double standard in that and want to get both fixed, because I think it's important that we treat all characters with equal grace.

I mean, I can't stand Snake, but I still think it's important that his Cypher grab glitch be removed even though that's a technical buff for him. He deserves the grace, like every character deserves it, to have things working properly.

Im not sure if the YES glitch is the same glitch and no...it affects ganon as well.

Speaking of snake, what does everyone think about removing DACUS so that snake can't do that ridiculous oversight in the game snakedashing.

 

[goodoldganon]

With Snap on ledges there is no such thing as edgeguarding and it does add depth.

Chase someone off the stage. How is that not edgeguarding? It's a high risk high reward strategy. With no snap ledges its almost ALWAYS a better idea to stay on the ledge and keep it safe. Basically it only makes edgeguarding easy. Much easier then before. Sure recovery is harder and that's great but with all the buffs we have made to offense and are going to make, what's so wrong about also giving the opponent a breather to get his footing back?

Maybe it'll grow on me but it just felt wrong when I played with it.

 

[zxeon]

Im not sure if the YES glitch is the same glitch and no...it affects ganon as well.

Speaking of snake, what does everyone think about removing DACUS so that snake can't do that ridiculous oversight in the game snakedashing.

WTF is DACUS!

 

[goodoldganon]

Im not sure if the YES glitch is the same glitch and no...it affects ganon as well.

Speaking of snake, what does everyone think about removing DACUS so that snake can't do that ridiculous oversight in the game snakedashing.

Is snakedashing game breaking? In my eyes, no. It gives him and a few other characters (Link is probably the second biggest culprit) some interesting tactics and movement/attack choices.

 

[alex3]

what is DACUS?

 

[johe]

Im not sure if the YES glitch is the same glitch and no...it affects ganon as well.

Speaking of snake, what does everyone think about removing DACUS so that snake can't do that ridiculous oversight in the game snakedashing.

Why, he's OK now, and by removing Snakedashing, you remove his ability to retreat from fast characters, and that really nerfs his defensive game, which is really all he has now

Also, DACUS isn't just for Snake, Sheik, Falco, and many more characters sai hai.

 

[MBlaze]

DACUS is Smash boosting.

And lol at the page number being equivalent to the number of lines we can use. xD

 

[Shell]

Dash attack canceled up smash

Although I think Up smash canceled dash attack would be more appropriate.

Edit: And I think it would be a waste of lines

 

[GPDP]

Im not sure if the YES glitch is the same glitch and no...it affects ganon as well.

Speaking of snake, what does everyone think about removing DACUS so that snake can't do that ridiculous oversight in the game snakedashing.

Hell no. Snake may be OP'd, but several other characters like Link make good use of it.

Plus, the Snake Dash can be countered. It's not like that's what really makes him so powerful.

 

[Alopex]

Yeah, keep the DACUS. It's a cornerstone of the Sheik and Link metagame and they'd lose a lot if they lost the DACUS.

Snake's is annoying, but it's nothing overly powerful. If anything about Snake is too powerful, it's his Utilt. Amirite?


EDIT:

For anyone wondering, DACUS stands for:

DashAttack-Canceled UpSmash.

 

[Shell]

yeh, urdoinitrite.

And Jiang, I checked out some of your matches. Great playing. Also, any reason why you chose 1.05 up grav plus .90 shorthops instead of just making even lower shorthops?

 

[Almas]

Fun fact: The code which manages short hops also controls how high above your character your name is written!

 

[zxeon]

Removing DACUS is not worth the time.

 

[alex3]

why so many abbreviations guys?

 

[Shell]

The same reason anyone abbreviates anything.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

let's not remove DACUS plz

 

[leafgreen386]

Uh... the DACUS is not OP. If we really have to nerf snake, just reduce the power on his utilt so it doesn't kill until 130% or so.