Common Secondaries and their usefulness.

[elvenarrow3000]

Dude, I go Marth all the way against Peach.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Dude, I go Marth all the way against Peach.

yea hes my favorite low tier

Link or YL vs Peach. Especially YL.

Other than that....Maybe Pika vs Falcon? Maybe? I don't know any other matchups where high tiers are outdone by low tiers.

hmm yea thats about all I can think of really. I dont mind goin m2 against falcon or falco tho. they are easily comboed.

pika seems to be the most powerful

 

[Miggz]

Dude, I go Marth all the way against Peach.

I do too, actually. At first I was really bad at this matchup. Now I ****.

Although, I haven't played that Peach player in months, and now I have a Fox in my arsenal to back me up as well...

 

[KAOSTAR]

Only peach players I kno that are really good live far enough away that its a rare occurrence to play them. One also beat the best two ppl in the last couple of tourneys. I got ***** lol. [due to inexperience of course lol]

 

[Miggz]

Nice! =P

Yeah, she is incredibly deadly in the right hands. lol

 

[metashinryu]

Nice! =P

Yeah, she is incredibly deadly in the right hands. lol

or incredibly spammy on others,some dude where i live chooses peach cuz the dsmash, he almost fvck up the cstick...

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea peach is way too good at fighting to be a women lol

 

[MegaMarthMan]

Well I wasn't exactly asking who to secondary, I was just wondering if anyone had a similar experience as mine. That is, having practicing your secondary cause your main to become better. And if so, do you think there is any specific secondaries that lend the development of their skillset to help further the development your skillset for your main?

Using Fox made my Marth all shi*ty cause I never faired lol But my tech skill is faster now not that it matters I find.

 

[metashinryu]

so if i main falcon,but i sub marth,that helps my gameplay?if not,then which char would do it?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I like spacies just for technicals

 

[Proverbs]

Not quite a 'common' secondary, but I'm thinking of picking up Pikachu. Actually, I'm not even sure if it'd be useful. But it'll be worth it. Somehow.

 

[KAOSTAR]

depends on whether or not you play a fox. If you dont then pikachu is a decent low tier for low tier tourneys but also used correctly can abuse that upsmash[best in game]

 

[Zephynazo]

I use Sheik as a secondary... I just feel like she is the best secondary for Marth, due to some matchups.

 

[Niko45]

JS sounds like he plays his friends who let him grab them and he just uairs them to death. Fox has absolutely no guaranteed death combos from grab at 0%...

Fox is the hardest character to play tech wise by far. His matchups aren't as complicated (he pretty much dair/nair/shine/grabs everyone, no character really forces him to do anything else) as marth's, and his spacing is a bit less crucial than sheik/marth.

Depends on ur definition of hard but when u need to hit and release jump within 1/20 of a second to short hop I think you qualify as difficult. His edge guards are not easy, his recovery is hard, even just plain TECHING is noticeably harder with this character.

The ease of marth/sheik's tech game makes it easier to focus on those more difficult aspects of their games like spacing and match ups. Overall Fox is way harder imo.

 

[SinceEternity]

but you can always practice the tech skill for fox by yourself if you don't have opponents constantly available to you.... on the other hand for marth, spacing will only come during gameplay(there's only so much you can learn from level 1 comps lol)

 

[bolt.]

I use marth as my main, then jiggs and fox. Fox made my tech skill so much better. Jiggs is just fun to play as.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea, Tech with spacies can be done alone for practice. Spacing is hard to do alone.

I disagree with fox being harder for the reasons listed. Shorthopping isnt hard it just takes a second to get the timing. Musle memory will get to the point where u dont even think about it.

And fox plays the same almost always. You just kinda jump around and be annoying and do massive damage. nair dair shine upsmash upthrow uair laser

Its hard to play good marth against a comp. but its not as hard to play a spacy vs a comp

Level 3-4 have the most realistic DI

 

[metashinryu]

ok,i have found a nice way to improve my gameplay,i main falcon(comboing)second falco(tech skill)and third marth(spacing)

i think its a usefull system,what do you think?

 

[DippnDots]

The way you space / combo with any character is different from the rest of the cast and you only need a certain basic level of tech skill and a better knowledge of timing for most characters.


Question though, does GOOD tech skill mean you can do it consistently (perfect wavedashes, l-cancels, edge cancels etc) or you can do a bunch of **** real fast?

 

[metashinryu]

i think it means you can do most s*** on command,like waveshining back and forth without mistaking.

but i dont think it means doing it fast,though i think its also part of being techskilled

 

[Havokbringer]

Playing as fast as possible makes you less predictable.

But wasted movements (like DDing for 30 minutes) no matter how slow or fast makes you more predictable.

Its all about practice.

Go through sessions everyday like practice wavelanding onto the stage from the edge for 10 mins then SHFFLed Nair to immediatley dashing away to pivot grab.( I'm using Marth as an example for this) etc.

Probably more information then anybody wanted but oh well.

 

[Brightside6382]

Fox is a Marth players best friend for a secondary

 

[metashinryu]

Fox is a Marth players best friend for a secondary

why or for what is that for?

 

[soap]

why or for what is that for?

if they beat your marth, you go fox.

duh

 

[metashinryu]

if they beat your marth, you go fox.

duh

i meant on the benefits that playin marth would do to fox and vice-versa,if someone beats my falcon and i go marth i dont have to secondary him,i just know i will do better than with falcon

duh

 

[Brightside6382]

i meant on the benefits that playin marth would do to fox and vice-versa,if someone beats my falcon and i go marth i dont have to secondary him,i just know i will do better than with falcon

duh

Well there is no real substantial reason why Fox would be a good secondary for Marth other then the fact that he is a good all around character. Oh yeah and he does better against Shiek then Marth so thats a plus.

p.s duh

 

[DJMirror]

I main marth and second Sheik

All that did was help on my spacing and gimping people better

but recently i been playing Falco, Falcon and Fox so that been helping my finger move faster

 

[DippnDots]

Playing as fast as possible makes you less predictable.

Yes but not entirely, if you're ALWAYS doing something as soon as possible, then the other person knows exactly when you're going to act. Changing up the pace of a match is a powerful tool in its own right.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

all other top tiers are good as secondaries. it not only increases match up knowledge, tech skill, timing, how well u improvise, ect. but it also makes ur skill better as a player. not only with who u main/2nd, but w/ trying new people in general.

 

[KAOSTAR]

the thing is, if u can do it fast on command then its still good tech skill. doing what u want on command with consistency is what i think equals tech skill. but speed and other stuff is more flashy but very much apart of tech skill

 

[flaco]

My main is marth and secondary is captain falcon and then falco and I know what you mean is easier to tech skill and all that

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I'm a multicharacter, but I consider the most important characters of mine to be Marth, Sheik, and Falco. Though fox would complete the top tier triangle, he's gay. Work with sheik.

 

[Kal]

You need a secondary to cover the following:

1) Match-ups in which your main is at a disadvantage
2) Match-ups in which you, personally, are at a disadvantage.

Luckily for me, my 1) and 2) are the same; Sheik is Marth's worst match-up, and my worst match-up (this is usually the case with Marth mains; even mediocre Sheik players can give decent Marths a hard time if their spacing is poor and they aren't very precise). So my secondary is Fox.

Choosing Fox alongside Marth yields quite a few options. For one, Marth doesn't really have any "broken counterpick stages." Fox can counterpick Green Greens, Corneria, etc. and be at a strong advantage. Secondly, Marth struggles against Link, Sheik, Ganondorf and C. Falcon (and for less aggressive Marths, possibly Jigglypuff), all of whom are characters Fox beats handily.

Really, you don't need a secondary for Marth. The reality is that Marth's worst match-up is Sheik, and Marth vs. Sheik is roughly 6-4 or 5.5-4.5. So it's very winnable. But choosing Fox as a secondary gives you the advantages mentioned above.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well yoshis story for marth yields a strong advantage. I dont know if its broken per say but its close

 

[balladechina212]

I think the Marth-Sheik match up is more like 35-65

Yeah I agree, picking up Fox is a great way to cover weaknesses. And getting better with Fox's tech skill will help you to be more fluid with Marth's tech skill.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

its like the weapon triangle in fire emblem.
swords>axes, axes>lances, lances>swords.
marth>fox/falco, fox/falco>sheik, sheik>marth.

my fox is very sloppy, so ill pick up sheik once my marth is good enough.

 

[Rubyiris]

So I main Marth and consider Falco and C. Falcon secondaries.

Lately my Falco tech has been improving and I feel like this is making my Marth tech better and more consistent. Mostly because a lot of the shine combos for Falco and combos for CF require faster and more dexterous finger movement.

Is Falco/CF a common secondary for Marth players? Also, do you think there are any inherent benefits to your Marth for playing a certain character as a secondary over another?

Falcon does not require swift fingers at all. Falcon's easily one of the least technical characters in the game.

 

[Vitality]

Main Marth. Second is Fox if I happen to play against a marth that I know is better than mine. Marth dittos are just gross with massive spacing. I'll probably have a head full of grey hair if I did marth dittos all the time xD

 

[Shadow Huan]

I main Marth and Mewtwo.

But I second C. Flacon and Sheik, and I'm picking up Fox...

But for Tournies it's usually Marth. (Unless I get the "I don't care anymore" johns I had at my last Mass Madness again.)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox is the best secondary to Marth by a very large, vast margin.

He's best on the stages and matchups Marth struggles in (Sheik, arguably Falcon, arguably Ganon) and is amazing on all the gay stages Marth dislikes.

Then it would be Sheik or Falco. Probably Sheik.