Close this please.

[theguyfromlabyrinth]

LOL that's funny, you're a funny man.

haha glad someone caught it

After having read most of this thread I am going to have to agree with Hylian, if you are bad enough to be grabbed by ICs in Brawl ever then you should be chain grabbed to death, their grab is awful in this game except for the damage/kills they can get when they finally do land them, when wobbling was allowed in tournaments the best IC in the entire world still placed the exact same as he did without it, this game is going to be the same, the best IC in the world will lose anyways because their range, speed, and options suck. You are single handedly deciding that one decent move they have out of a grab should be banned just cause, this game is WAY easier to space in than melee, don't get grabbed.

And I am not an 07-08 member so you should believe me. Oh I have lots of posts too, oh and I have a sticked IC match up faq in melee so I am even decent at the game and everything.

unless you agree with him, he's just gonna tell you to read his posts. arguing with a wall would probably be more productive

 

[Corner-Trap]

Wow TGM is a real punk. Doesn't even know how to formulate a decent argument, and starts backing out when he's pressured. You're far to ignorant to be a TO, and you'll soon just be a forgotten footnote as more responsible TO's come about. Well you won't exactly be a forgotten footnote, because that means you would have had to have made a place in history in the first place. Only thing notable you've done is be a bad TO who has received a lot of backlash. It's sad that an 03 member still has no credibility, what a waste of time.

 

[Xyro77]

Wow TGM is a real punk. Doesn't even know how to formulate a decent argument, and starts backing out when he's pressured. You're far to ignorant to be a TO, and you'll soon just be a forgotten footnote as more responsible TO's come about. Well you won't exactly be a forgotten footnote, because that means you would have had to have made a place in history in the first place. Only thing notable you've done is be a bad TO who has received a lot of backlash. It's sad that an 03 member still has no credibility, what a waste of time.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Corner-Trap]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course you would give such a response since you can't articulate any coherent thoughts. You're such a scrub.

 

[Sinz]

They just banned Snake in Africa.

 

[Xyro77]

They just banned Snake in Africa.

i dont know why but i just laughed when i read this.

 

[TWK?]

hmm, I'm pretty sad to hear this... just means that TX people will have to practice for big tournaments elsewhere /sigh.

But I guess they have to trust Xyro, b/c he's been here since '03 and his skill is very impressive... wow I almost said that with a straight face, that was a close one.

Raise your hand if you see what I did there.... lol.

p.s. thank god this post is protected by '08 syndrome, it's in a font xyro can't read

 

[Chronopath]

*raises hand*

Xyro is just making me laugh right now. He acts all tough and smart yet he can't back up his arguments when a couple "non 07-08" members post.

 

[choknater]

Join date means everything to TGM? Alright. My join date is 2002 and I will say this: Infinites are wonderful and should be allowed.

 

[CY]

Dey Tuk Er Jerbs!

 

[Mokai]

Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

...Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a member defending a ban of chaingrabbing, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

 

[KiteDXX]

From join date generalization to "eyes closed" mentality towards everything, this TO has it all. You do realize that the vast majority of the posters in this topic are against you, and even a few BRoomers and the tournament player you've seen winning a tournament are posting against you. But it doesn't matter, nobody's opinion makes a difference, you can host your tournaments and do as you please; nobody can change that, and I can accept that.

However, you have to realize that you're only hurting yourself when you decide to ignore the good posts in the topic and laugh at the bad ones. And even when you respond to a good post, they retort and you just shut up and make up something else to comment about. They give you 30 minutes of their time, you give them 1 minute of yours. Is this fair?

Join date means absolutely nothing, and if they were not displayed you would have nothing to post in your arguments that would be any more factual than their own points. The irony of this is that you, Xyro, are actually showing how ignorant old users can be, not how bad new ones can be. You've even gone through the trouble of apologizing for your general 07-08 comments, and in the very next decent post you've gone against that and bashed them again.

I'm not even going to argue against the ICs technique banning; Overswarm and Hylian are far more qualified to do so, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference here, as we've seen the progress they've made in forming a convincing argument that penetrates such a thick skull. It's comparable to a "tl;dr" post, as it is just as useful as a "ROFLMAO!!!!!" response here.

My two cents.

 

[ArekExcelsior]

Again you fail to READ MY POSTS! I am not saying ICG or wobbling will win tournaments. Im saying how many times has a wobble or ICG beat some on in tourney when the player who was wobbled or ICG could have won the match if it was banned?

So, by your reasoning, anything that might tilt the competitive advantage such that one player who would have lost otherwise should be banned, correct?

Well, different stages favor different characters. Let's ban all but Final Destination.

Proper use of Fox's Shine can turn battles around. Let's ban that.

And, of course, it's likely that people fighting Kirby, Dedede, Metaknight, Charizard, Pit or Jigglypuff would have SO much of an easier time if no hovering or past-triple-jumps was allowed.

Your maxim, in short, breaks down to a reducio ad absurdum world of ultimate scrubhood. The maxim that tournaments should be organized is NOT, "Would X player have won minus the use of Y tactic?", but rather, "Is Y tactic so incredibly overpowered and apparently poorly thought by the designers that it irrevocably alters tournament play and single-handedly causes a particular character(s) to ascend artificially?" You haven't even TRIED to demonstrate latter point, namely because your butt has been handed to you on a platter by pretty much everyone here on that issue.

Plz dont use zelda to shiek example. That transformation does NOTHING even slightly close to what IC can do with their ICG. I would expect that comment from an 07- 08 member.

Why not? The transformation gives smart Zelda/Shiek players, especially in Brawl (Melee not so much) access to an array of competitive strategies that can turn a battle around quickly, and therefore prevent "the more skilled player" (don't we determine "the more skilled player" by who wins the match?) from winning. This is on a much greater scale than one tactic which is inherently interruptable (as testing here has shown) and so by your logic should be INFINITELY worse.

Bear in mind that you are banning not a tactic that a number of characters use but essentially one character's tactic. The only possible outcome of this is less use of that character, which hurts the meta-game.

Are you sure you didnt steal an 06 account? Because that was pretty d@mn ******** what u said. I dont need to know you or see any of your matches to know u get grabbed. every one on earth gets grabed. YOU CANNOT PREVENT YOUR SELF FROM GETTING GRABED IN BRAWL. ESPECIALY WHEN MOBILIT HAS BEEN GREATLY REDUCED FROM WHERE IT WAS IN MELEE. I thought you knew that but maybe you didnt take notes in class.

Apparently not, since actual empirical testing has shown a) that this tactic is clearly not so abusive that it single-handedly wins tournaments (not even you have claimed that) and b) that various tripping, dodging, and mobility elements do at least mitigate if not almost eliminate the risk.

good thing this has never happened to me and it never will. ive hosted/ran/help run over 50 smash events.......and im still going strong.

So have other tournaments that have fallen into disrepute.

How about i ban somthing that cant be escaped from and dont worry about questions.

Because apparently it CAN be escaped from given that not everyone lost to IC even with chain grab attempts. YOU might not be able to escape from it, but that is far from the community consensus.

there is no need to force those Metas/snakes/rob/g&w to use different chars because of a move that u cant escape from. u ban the move. simple.

A) YOU aren't "forcing" them. The competitive nature of the metagame is. That's what tournaments are all about. QED.
B) Why do the rights of MK/Snake/Rob/G&W players beat the rights of IC players? If their characters are viable, indeed dominant (at least MK and Snake, given tournament results), and if IC players therefore function as a counterweight, what happens? A) Those players either learn to play MK/Snake/etc. more creatively and thus avoid a tactic or learn to be able to play multiple characters. Either way, their skills improve. B) People who previously sailed to easy victories with the above four will consider changing their mains, and new players will also be forced to experiment with others. This leads to a richer and more complex character choice and therefore a better metagame.

Down the line, this action freezes innovation and makes for cruddier tournaments. And, as people have rightly pointed out, you also harm Texas players because those in the rest of the country who find the counter for the IC CG strategy will have developed at least one, if not two, tiers higher than your finalists and players who won your tournaments will lose ignobly in nationals.

looks like some one still doesnt understand that it takes ONE grab to take away a stock no matter how god or bad both players are. I have seen HORRIBLE players PERFECT the wobble or ICG and beat good players off of just getting 4 grabs in a match.

It happens all the time. Good players can either a) whine about it or b) ascend past scrubhood and develop additional skills to deal with those tactics. Might it arguably suck that even after achieving a high level of skill they STILL have to add moves to their repertoire to be competitive against all opponents? Sure. That's what makes champions.

Again, the empirical result of your prediction would be that IC would be the most dominant characters in tournaments. They're not even close. This is why the community is generally laughing at you, because the claim is absurd and even you know it, apparently...

Edit: This was a gem.

no matter what happens here, the scene will shrink to about 5-6 characters like melee did.

Putting aside that, yes, it's a premature prediction, even his formulation implicitly concedes that the pool has not shrunk thusly yet. So he's implicitly TAKING IC OUT OF THE RUNNING NOW. It's one thing when the metagame ends up electing 4-7 characters. It's quite another when TOs artificially choose which ones. Let the metagame decide those characters.

 

[RT]

Honestly, why aren't the mods closing this topic? More than 95% of all the posts are bashing Xyro, instead of being about, oh I don't know...discussing the Ice Climbers infinite in question?

 

[KiteDXX]

Honestly, why aren't the mods closing this topic? More than 95% of all the posts are bashing Xyro, instead of being about, oh I don't know...discussing the Ice Climbers infinite in question?

Xyro, being the TO of the tournament that led to this ban, is more the subject of this than the technique, seeing how he's the one who banned it in his tournaments that the majority of Texas players attend. He is hosting all of the tournaments, BRoomers already disagree with his decision, and generally, it has devolved into attempting to talk some sense into the person in question.

I see nothing more to discuss about the technique that hasn't already been said, anyway.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

ROFL at 07-08 member posts

Again you fail to READ MY POSTS! I am not saying ICG or wobbling will win tournaments. Im saying how many times has a wobble or ICG beat some on in tourney when the player who was wobbled or ICG could have won the match if it was banned? Dont relate wobbling to a foxs bair to shine, its completely diff and u know that.........07-08 members do that(if they even played melee).

I was beat by marth's fsmash, if he wouldn't be able to use I could have won, so the right thing to do would be to ban it, right? /sarcasm

If he's running the tournaments, why shouldn't he be allowed to make the rules?

If you don't like his rules, then just run your own tournaments.

With his incredible reluctance to bring up proper arguments, it's seems like that is the best case. Only thing is, it could be solved by xyro simply unbanning it, but no, when people win with IC's having access to cg, it apparently means that the IC's are less skilled than their opponent. -_-

 

[goodkid]

The way I see it is why limit smash to its second-best tactics? The chain-grab is a good tactic now, but I'm sure there will be more counters to it and to other current tactics. There is no reason to ban the chain-grab.

 

[Xyro77]

Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

...Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a member defending a ban of chaingrabbing, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

its official, i love this guy.




To the rest of you: Bash me all you can. Its interesting to read some of the things you kids come up with. plz, keep it up.

 

[Corner-Trap]

I thought you were done posting in this thread, but you keep coming back to reply to the joke/bad posts while completely ignoring the posts that rip your argument to shreds. Why are you dodging all the posts that are actually trying to present a sensible debate against your logic?

 

[Xyro77]

I thought you were done posting in this thread, but you keep coming back to reply to the joke/bad posts while completely ignoring the posts that rip your argument to shreds. Why are you dodging all the posts that are actually trying to present a sensible debate against your logic?

i have tried everything possible to explain/make you cats happy or at least semi-happy. You guys only want me to unban it. You either accept my choice or you dont. All of you are to the point of no return. You want a mega flashy argument that can trump hylian or overswarm or what have you. My explaination needs no flash or hard core logic. Its rathe simple. a move tha can not be escpaed out of by the MAJORITY of characters is unfair, therefore it is banned in my book. Plz dont respond to this, cause trust me............i know what your going to say, its already been said.

I wish hylian would be more clear on the title of the hread and what he said in his first post.

I am simply reducing the ICG to 3 grabs only. this means you can still pull of attacks in between the 3 grabs which will still insure you 40-60% damage. Hylian has also stated that there are MORE powerfull and EASIER things you can do with the IC other han the ICG. Even though none of you will read this and only continue the bash fest.

Personly, i never have and never will care about peoples opinion of me in real life or a game board. Opinions do not sway me. Call it ignorant,stupid,blind.....ect. You(all of you) dont have and effect on me.

 

[DugFinn]

You guys do realize that Xyro has NOT banned the chaingrab completely, right? It's simply been restricted to three grabs - which was done to try and mimic the amount of times that other chain grabers (like DDD at 4 for example) can chain before the opponent can brake free (and even then DDD only does about 35% to most characters, Falco about 48% to most and etc, while IC can infinite everyone).

Unlike other chain grabbers (like Pika and Falco), IC can do this to ALL characters so there is no way to counter-pick "effectively". Like, if Marth is chosen, you'd be a moron to pick Ness/Lucas, but if IC is chosen there is no counter against being grabbed and getting destroyed by it. The "don't get grabbed" is an uneducated response that unrealistic people flock to.

And as for other characters with similar infinites, like DDD, Xyro has already taken out all stages with corners in the tourneys he runs, thus keeping those characters from being able to do that too.

He's not singling out the IC as you guys think he is. He's trying to keep a virtually inescapable 0% to death move from destroying the future of Smash. Here's a video to demonstrate a few things that even an absolute noob with a few weeks of practice could use to take out a generally skilled pro - doing so, with one finely timed move that the opponent would have no choice but to loose a stock from. http://youtube.com/watch?v=wHfGqpHBZI4

Now, Xyro77 (TGM), has been running Smash events for 7 years. He's not new at this. He SAW first hand how the tiers of Melee formed. He knows how Smash works. And yes, he does listen to what people say (even if he disregards the info - at least he read it and considered it). For example, in post #3011 http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4471520#post4471520 Hylian tells him about IC tripping. He later brings up exactly what Hylian himself told him, on this thread a few pages back, and Overswarm tells him that info is garbage - so basically Overswarm just said that Hylian's info is garbage. Take that into consideration. Not to mention, Hylian has also said that IC chaingrabs are banned in TX. Again -untrue. The correct information is: IC chain grabs are restricted to 3 grabs in most Houston tournaments. Please get YOUR facts straight before you go diss someone.

Anyways, long story short, this IS his tourney - and as such, he can run it however he wants. If you don't like it, don't go. Or host your own. That simple.

If havening an infinite restricted to three grabs is such a big deal and it "destroys the character" then THAT should go to show how broken a move it is by the simple fact that it can "make or brake" a character. If not, then what's the big deal. If you need a 0% to death move in order to win, then that means you suck to begin with and will only win by relying on a move that guarantees you a stock if performed correctly (which with practice will become the norm). Brawl could de-evolve (like Marvel for example) to where who ever pulls there infinite off first basically wins. That's not competitive. That's just sad. You might argue, well it hasn't happened yet - uh, duh, Brawl's only been out for a few months. It's called preemptive action.

Anyways, most players in Houston (Hylian is from Austin) are all perfectly fine with the restriction (except for like two). So, if you don't like it, don't come to Houston. Not hard to do. There are still tourneys in San Antonio and Dallas. And if you want to have a IC infinite CG party go to Waco's tourney - they're great a cheap IC infinites and would love to 0% to death you while you compliment them on their skill at hitting grab over and over.

 

[Xyro77]

You guys do realize that Xyro has NOT banned the chaingrab completely, right? It's simply been restricted to three grabs - which was done to try and mimic the amount of times that other chain grabers (like DDD at 4 for example) can chain before the opponent can brake free (and even then DDD only does about 35% to most characters, Falco about 48% to most and etc, while IC can infinite everyone).

Unlike other chain grabbers (like Pika and Falco), IC can do this to ALL characters so there is no way to counter-pick "effectively". Like, if Marth is chosen, you'd be a moron to pick Ness/Lucas, but if IC is chosen there is no counter against being grabbed and getting destroyed by it. The "don't get grabbed" is an uneducated response that unrealistic people flock to.

And as for other characters with similar infinites, like DDD, Xyro has already taken out all stages with corners in the tourneys he runs, thus keeping those characters from being able to do that too.

He's not singling out the IC as you guys think he is. He's trying to keep a virtually inescapable 0% to death move from destroying the future of Smash. Here's a video to demonstrate a few things that even an absolute noob with a few weeks of practice could use to take out a generally skilled pro - doing so, with one finely timed move that the opponent would have no choice but to loose a stock from. http://youtube.com/watch?v=wHfGqpHBZI4

Now, Xyro77 (TGM), has been running Smash events for 7 years. He's not new at this. He SAW first hand how the tiers of Melee formed. He knows how Smash works. And yes, he does listen to what people say (even if he disregards the info - at least he read it and considered it). For example, in post #3011 http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4471520#post4471520 Hylian tells him about IC tripping. He later brings up exactly what Hylian himself told him, on this thread a few pages back, and Overswarm tells him that info is garbage - so basically Overswarm just said that Hylian's info is garbage. Take that into consideration. Not to mention, Hylian has also said that IC chaingrabs are banned in TX. Again -untrue. The correct information is: IC chain grabs are restricted to 3 grabs in most Houston tournaments. Please get YOUR facts straight before you go diss someone.

Anyways, long story short, this IS his tourney - and as such, he can run it however he wants. If you don't like it, don't go. Or host your own. That simple.

If havening an infinite restricted to three grabs is such a big deal and it "destroys the character" then THAT should go to show how broken a move it is by the simple fact that it can "make or brake" a character. If not, then what's the big deal. If you need a 0% to death move in order to win, then that means you suck to begin with and will only win by relying on a move that guarantees you a stock if performed correctly (which with practice will become the norm). Brawl could de-evolve (like Marvel for example) to where who ever pulls there infinite off first basically wins. That's not competitive. That's just sad. You might argue, well it hasn't happened yet - uh, duh, Brawl's only been out for a few months. It's called preemptive action.

Anyways, most players in Houston (Hylian is from Austin) are all perfectly fine with the restriction (except for like two). So, if you don't like it, don't come to Houston. Not hard to do. There are still tourneys in San Antonio and Dallas. And if you want to have a IC infinite CG party go to Waco's tourney - they're great a cheap IC infinites and would love to 0% to death you while you compliment them on their skill at hitting grab over and over.

ah, the lovely DugFinn. maybe they will listen to you.

 

[Undrdog]

I've read all of your posts man and I've yet to see anything that DugFinn said come from you. Had I known there were simply restrictions in place I doubt I would've been hit with such shock. I'll be very sad if I had just missed this point, lol. But really, if you really hadn't mentioned it, why didn't you? While I'm sure plenty of people would've been opposed to the concept anyway I'm sure there would be a lot less lash back from this.

 

[Xyro77]

I've read all of your posts man and I've yet to see anything that DugFinn said come from you. Had I known there were simply restrictions in place I doubt I would've been hit with such shock. I'll be very sad if I had just missed this point, lol. But really, if you really hadn't mentioned it, why didn't you? While I'm sure plenty of people would've been opposed to the concept anyway I'm sure there would be a lot less lash back from this.

well this is where i messed up. i had it(the reduction) on my tournament thread since the beginning but i just assumed you guys saw it....even though yall wouldnt never have a reason to go see the houston thread. so yea that part is my mistake.

again, its a reduction. not a ban

 

[The MC Clusky]

San Antonio, now featuring ban free tournaments >.> Check ma sig.

FYI, TGM isn't the only person hosting smash tournaments in Texas, though it really is 80% him since Houston has become the main hub for Texas tournaments. Austin rarely ever did one despite the number of players, and I'm the only one to revive the scene in SA. Dallas and the Valley usually keep to themselves due to the distance.

As for my two cents:

Wobbling: banned. why? because it works to 999%, it works on everyone on any stage at any point and once it starts no amount of DI, screaming and crying can have you escape by your own efforts. No other technique has all of this. Chaingrab wall infinite? Requires a wall. And not all characters can be chaingrabbed by DDD.

Other Chaingrabs: There is DI to escape them. They eventually stop working. While most can be cg'd, not all fall prey to the most devastating combos.

There we have it people; what effectively defines the differences.

 

[KRDsonic]

Oh yeah, I have a question, am I still allowed to chain grab falcos and wolfs with a solo climber with just the down throw combo without having to counter the number of times I do it? Because it's basically the same as pikachus.

Edit: By the way, if Ice Climbers chain grab someone to about 88% then the opponent is easily killed by having nana throwing you into popo's charged up smash, just felt like saying that.

 

[Xyro77]

Oh yeah, I have a question, am I still allowed to chain grab falcos and wolfs with a solo climber with just the down throw combo without having to counter the number of times I do it? Because it's basically the same as pikachus.

you wanna solo IC? wow, yes u can CG them

 

[Time2Brawl]

I'm pretty sure that if it was impossible to get out of, for any character, that would be considered cheap. We really don't care if your"play to win", it's not first one to grab with IceClimbers wins. Stop your whining, and ADAPT.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I think its just flat out hilarious that if you look closely at post number 260 xyro explicitly explains that he does not need logic to make or defend his decisions

 

[KRDsonic]

you wanna solo IC? wow, yes u can CG them

I'm not going to go solo when I'm pushed into a corner, but it's inevitable that nana will die every now and the in the tournament and I'll be left with just popo, so I like to be prepared for anything. And I'm better at going solo against a couple of characters like sheik.

 

[Kit-Tsukasa]

IC chaingrabs are not that bad and besides without them, that easily makes them terrible. If you want to beat them that badly, then learn a character that counters. That's the point of counterpicking.

What should be banned it DK throw to stage spike. That kills/gimps about 80% of all characters.

Banning IC cg is like banning final destination (b/c of that edge...)

 

[DugFinn]

IC chaingrabs are not that bad and besides without them, that easily makes them terrible. If you want to beat them that badly, then learn a character that counters. That's the point of counterpicking.

What should be banned it DK throw to stage spike. That kills/gimps about 80% of all characters.

Banning IC cg is like banning final destination (b/c of that edge...)

It was already explained that the IC CG is NOT being banned. Please go back and actually READ the post. I'll make it easy for you: it's post #261 on the previous page.

 

[CyanCyde]

I apologize in advance if this winds up becoming a wall-o-text. :D

You guys do realize that Xyro has NOT banned the chaingrab completely, right? It's simply been restricted to three grabs - which was done to try and mimic the amount of times that other chain grabers (like DDD at 4 for example) can chain before the opponent can brake free (and even then DDD only does about 35% to most characters, Falco about 48% to most and etc, while IC can infinite everyone).

Yes, it's posted in the thread Hylian directed us to in the OP.

The "don't get grabbed" is an uneducated response that unrealistic people flock to.

I have trouble believing that one. Overswarm claims that he doesn't get grabbed; as a respected pro that nobody bothered to properly refute, I'm inclined to believe him. Also, while I freely admit to being new to Smash, as I improve, especially in matters of spacing, I've noticed that I don't get grabbed as much as I used to.

He's trying to keep a virtually inescapable 0% to death move from destroying the future of Smash. Here's a video to demonstrate a few things that even an absolute noob with a few weeks of practice could use to take out a generally skilled pro - doing so, with one finely timed move that the opponent would have no choice but to loose a stock from. http://youtube.com/watch?v=wHfGqpHBZI4

For starters, I haven't yet seen proof one way or the other about the CG's escapability. Secondly, if "absolute noobs" can handle "generally skilled pros" with a simple chain grab, how come IC's aren't dominating tournaments instead of Snake and MK? That very question has come up in this thread, and I've yet to see an answer to it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Hylian said he's never actually pulled off the zero-death CG in a tournament. If he has difficulties doing it, how can one reasonably expect a "noob" to pull it off enough times to win a match, let alone a tournament?

That's not competitive. That's just sad. You might argue, well it hasn't happened yet - uh, duh, Brawl's only been out for a few months. It's called preemptive action.

Unless you have a flux capacitor-equipped Delorean, I don't see how you can honestly tell that such preemptive action will be necessary. From what I've read about Melee, IC's had an infinite then, too, but that didn't unbalance things; IC's even had wavedashing to help them close in on opponents. With their crummy grab range, slow movement speed, and the loss of wavedashing, I highly doubt that any but the most highly skilled players will be pulling zero-death CG's with anything remotely resembling regularity. That being said, players of that sort of skill level would probably wind up winning anyway, so that seems like a moot point to me. If I wind up being wrong, and the ICG winds up being this game-breaking, metagame-warping monstrosity that you and Xyro are making it out to be, I (and probably others) will eat crow and hop on the ban/restrict bandwagon right with you. Until that happens (IF that happens), restrictions and banning are premature and may wind up doing more harm than good to the metagame.

And if you want to have a IC infinite CG party go to Waco's tourney - they're great a cheap IC infinites and would love to 0% to death you while you compliment them on their skill at hitting grab over and over.

At the risk of making it seem like a personal poke, you kind of shot yourself in the foot here. To this point, your post was intelligently and seemingly objectively presented, even if I happen to disagree. When you labeled the tactic "cheap," you lost some of your objectivity. From my time here on smashboards, and my time playing other games semi-competively, I've learned that "cheap" isn't a word in the competitive player's vocabulary.

 

[Ulevo]

Xyro77, I would like to inform you that Ness and Lucas CANNOT escape from a properly timed Marth on a Release Grab. Ness also can't escape from Squirtle or Charizard. I'm not willing to read through endless walls of text to see if you've been told this, so I'm just letting you know. There are also other characters that can perform this, such as Yoshi's infinite on Wario. For more insight on CGs, just click the siggy below.

On that note, would you not think that it is wise to let a tier system develop and let the game play out a little more before limiting or banning a character or a characters move set? The entire reason things are banned is to ensure one strategy does not overthrow others to the point in which the entire competitive arena is based solely on that one strategy to win. And if IC are really capable of achieving that, then I think the future tiers will show. Of all the tier list ideas floating around the boards, I never see Popo and Nana on #1. Why not wait for one to develop before making such decisions?

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

I hope you people already read my post, two weeks ago they were banned at my local tourney after no one could beat me. This is such shamefulness on the tournament goers. Bunch of useless whiners.

I hope they unban it hylian, I really do.

 

[DMG]

DugFinn, For the record, the Waco tournaments have restrictions on ALL GRABS FOR ALL CHARACTERS to be no more than 5 consecutive, Inescapable grabs. Waco is not bashing you or TGM or Houston or anything so leave our city out of this. Why would you wanna bash Waco in the first place? Most people don't even know where the hell waco is or they think it is pronounced "wacko". If you wanted to bash a city then pick one that most people would be able to recognize.

I am the only person in Waco who probably even knows how to do the IC infinite and even then I cannot do it anymore than %50 on a few characters anyway. The way you posted that made us sound like we are all some Crazy IC fanatics that can chain grab anyone no matter what.

 

[Ayato]

What should be banned it DK throw to stage spike. That kills/gimps about 80% of all characters.

Wall tech?!

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok, I just went back and read every page...Wow people. Regardless of whether TGM is right or wrong, I was really disturbed at some of the things I heard people say about him. He is a person just like all of us, even if he is the internet. Personal disses are dirty, and I hope they stop now.

Have some respect people.

 

[Blad01]

I would be happy if ICs become banned in France... :D

Or maybe limit the Chaingrab.... But there is not only tht... :s

 

[Empy]

Ok, I just went back and read every page...Wow people. Regardless of whether TGM is right or wrong, I was really disturbed at some of the things I heard people say about him. He is a person just like all of us, even if he is the internet. Personal disses are dirty, and I hope they stop now.

Have some respect people.

I agree.

Anyone banning IC's chaingrab already is wrong, just because it's too early, look at the development around DDD's chaingrab.

Anyone that says banning IC's chaingrab is absolutely insane and the person doing it is ******** etc... is an idot.

Anyone saying that IC's chaingrab can only be banned if DDD's is also, is the actual ******.