Close this please.

[slacker!]

I am Athene, best paladin in the world.

I am Furious, sexiest man in the world.

 

[whut?]

ban the infinite, keep the alt throws (not the same thing) its hard to distinguish in writing but in person a judge should easily tell if someones doing an infinite

 

[Xyro77]

All, I have to say is a move is move, and it has ways to be broken out of.

Why is this thread still alive? The TO obviously lacks a brain and won't listen to reason, so why bother arguing. I'm just glad this scrub doesn't run any tourneys in NC.

This will probably get ignored (again) because I'm an 07 user *gasp*. But people don't seem to see why you wait before banning a tactic unless it is obviously for the intent of stalling. If you ban everything instantly you have no time to find a way around it. One tournament is not enough to deem a tactic as unbeatable. I spent a grand total of about 2 minutes looking for a way out of their chain grab and I've already found why it isn't as infinite as people make it out to be. Many people think that once you get grabbed it is over, which is simply not true. I spent about 2 minutes going to training mode, grabbing someone and then trying to mash my way out and at 1/4 speed I could get out before nana recovered form the dash grab animation at 150%. At normal speed I could get out at 65% and that's with the time I have to spend to grab the other controller. People could easily learn to react fast enough and get out 80% and maybe even more, at which point a charge smash can usually kill you. And also, this is considering that the IC start the infinite right after they can, which is very hard considering the timing and Nana's habits of sliding around to get behind you. Try learning to deal with something instead of crying for a ban.

Would you mind stop spouting about 07-08 members lacking intelligence and ignoring posts like owerswarm's and try to refute some of their arguments.

It also gets to me how it's ok banning it because of few players using IC's, seriously, what kind of argument is that?

What I don't get at all though is how you have to hold on to that ban you made when the IC's have better and easier zero deaths (i woudln't know btw) as you claim. Where's the logic in that.

I don't even need to argue against this ban myself as other posters have already brought up grear arguments.

TGM's reputation just went down the toilet.

ROFL at 07-08 member posts

 

[Corner-Trap]

It's funny how you still want to rag on people about their join dates while completely ignoring overswarm's posts which completely dismantles your entire arguments. Thats truly pathetic.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Wow, Overswarm. ****/10. WIFI WARS COWORKERS FO LIFE!

Also, I don't believe it should be banned. IC's aren't that great from what I understand, so banning it only makes them worse.

 

[Mokai]

It's funny how you still want to rag on people about their join dates while completely ignoring overswarm's posts which completely dismantles your entire arguments. Thats truly pathetic.

It's no use; you're not the first person to say that and you won't be the last. The best course of action is to just ignore him and leave him be.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Guess what, Xyro? Nobody gives two figs about when the hell you joined, and likewise you shouldn't either. Many of the 07-08 members have been FAR more helpful in the growth and development of the smash community than you EVER have.

I welcome you to be a complete douche or whatever the hell you want as long as you actually debate the right way. Start with every single sentence from Overswarm's posts in this thread.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

It's funny how you still want to rag on people about their join dates while completely ignoring overswarm's posts which completely dismantles your entire arguments. Thats truly pathetic.

who gives a **** you're 07-08 LOL AMIRITE

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Holy McJebus I joined 06'. That must mean I'm credible.

Reply to Overswarm's comments, or admit you're wrong. It's that simple.

Seriously, if you can refute most of Overswarm's comments, I bet you'd gain a lot of credibility back. Heck, its not just the 07/08 guys who think you screwed up, the SBR guys who have been playing longer than most of us are saying you screwed up to. At least give THEM the answers they are looking for.

 

[Hylian]

Holy McJebus I joined 06'. That must mean I'm credible.

Reply to Overswarm's comments, or admit you're wrong. It's that simple.

Seriously, if you can refute most of Overswarm's comments, I bet you'd gain a lot of credibility back. Heck, its not just the 07/08 guys who think you screwed up, the SBR guys who have been playing longer than most of us are saying you screwed up to. At least give THEM the answers they are looking for.

Seriously, reply to overswarm.


Also, think about what evo is doing right now. You are Evo TGM.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

in the words of the great chillindude829



"DAAAAAAAAMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN "



Overswarm beat the **** out of TGM's arguement

 

[whut?]

It's funny how you still want to rag on people about their join dates while completely ignoring overswarm's posts which completely dismantles your entire arguments. Thats truly pathetic.

join dates dont mean jack ****, people who started their accounts on 08 could have been here since the beginning. dont act elitist just because you dont ever change your ****. lmao.
ive been on here longer than the people he quoted..brawl is a new game and i started fresh, i dont try to become popular with post counts & join dates like...some people.

grow up noobs, you arent better because of numbers below your account (?)

 

[PassWurD]

Its funny how you rag on people who have joined in "07-08" , yet you continue to act like one by your "standards" of what people who have joined in 07-08

 

[Overswarm]

The guy's waiting for me to go out of town... which I am doing tomorrow morning. I'll be in Ireland for two weeks. That's plenty of time to form a reply, right?

Maybe I'll find a LAN café somewhere just for this...

 

[ArekExcelsior]

Just a comment: Xylo argued that in some instances player 1, a non-IC, is more skilled than but loses to a player 2 IC who gets lucky or good timing on a grab sequence.

So the hell what?

The very POINT of a tournament that doesn't devolve to everyone picking Akuma is that there's unpredictability. Underdogs who pull themselves together and leverage their strength against an overconfident opponent can and SHOULD pull out victories. Ice Climbers are very cool in their ability to make a last stand. Want a tournament where you can predict the finals in the preliminaries? Get rid of things that force more experienced players to keep their guard up.

 

[theguyfromlabyrinth]

I have a plan, guys! He's only reading 07-08 members' posts because he knows how necessarily dumb we are. I'll attract him with some xyro-bait.

NOOB TO BANS STUFF! ICs can't chain grab it's been disproven! all you have to do is when your BURST gauge is full press dust + any other button! Look xyro, look how dumb I am and roll on the floor, laughing all the while!

KAMEHAMEHAAAAAAAAA

UndrDog, as an 04 member you have seen and exprienced LOTS AND LOTS of things like i have. So i would think that you will understand where im coming from even though you may not AGREE with it. All my reasoning is in this section below. Every thing i have typed is TRUE. Some say i shouldnt ban it so early while othe say i shouldnt ban it at all. I say, i dislike a move that at be escaped out of unless the IC mess up.

This part isnt aimed at you UndrDog.

I declare that if any one responds to my posts in a way that shows they did not read the below section, i will respond to you with the same section you should have read.

I'm going to go ahead and say this:

You're an 04 member but.... who are you?


That didn't make you feel very good, did it? Someone who has traveled the country, been flown to New York to write about Ken and Azen playing head to head, won smash tournaments, been placed in the back room, laughed and played with M3D, Alpha Zealot, the Kishes, JV, and some of the other biggest contributers to the smash community saying that must either make you very depressed, embarassed, or angry.

Now, seeing as I can puff up my chest and ego with similar statements to the above, if I told you that Zelda shouldn't be allowed to change into Sheik because it was broken for her to have two characters, would my standing and experience make me any more or less wrong?

Experience is a big factor in any decision because experience = stimulated brain. Whether you picked up the lessons or not is a different story. Seeing as how you're banning IC chain grabs... well that just goes to show that some people need to take notes in class.


That said, you can't just take someone's join date as a give or take all method of debate. You use words and your brain.

So without further ado, I present wall of text:

1. Lets talk melee for a sec. In melee wobbling/infinite chain grabbing(ICG) were never OFFICIALy banned. The back room took the easy way out(are were afraid of the backlash if they decided to ban it) and decided to let the tournament host create the rules. So in Brawl, I dont give a **** about backlash and i will take the stand of stoping the train wreck before it happens. And what i mean by that is this: i have seen time and time again(and most of you have to, although u wont admit it) that there have been matches in melee and brawl where player 1 is clearly better than player 2 (based of of previous tourney placings/MMs) but yet player 2 pulls off a wobble or ICG due to a single grab and take a match from player 1. Tell me is this "fair"?

Good thing you know what goes on in the back room. Afraid of backlash? Backlash of whom? What would they do? The back room does what it does to make a better smash community and to make sure all the people that help it grow are on the same page and know all their options. We aren't afraid of "backlash".

That said, it was discussed. Thoroughly. At length. Over and over and over again.

It wasn't banned because it didn't fit the criteria. For one, it didn't win tournaments. There were two players that used Wobbling that placed well. Wobbles and Chu Dat.

TOs that were inexperienced or were afraid of low attendance numbers or just plain biased against it since they didn't play ICs went ahead and banned it in droves.

Wobbles and Chu Dat still went to tournaments.

Upon reviewing their placement in several tournaments, we discovered that they were, oddly enough, consistent! Surprisingly, Chu Dat actually placed LOWER at all tournaments that allowed Wobbling (and no, it wasn't because he didn't use it and/or got wobbled himself). Removing wobbling did little more than removing Fox's back throw to shine spike would. It was just a technique that added to the character, not the character itself, nor the player.

Sure, there were a few players out there that picked up ICs, learned to Wobble, and won a match or two. Where did they win these matches? At the bottom of the round robin. These players didn't even make it into brackets. The only reason they won their matches using wobbling was because they were playing against equally inexperienced opponents that didn't know what to do.

So far, we've already determined

1. Melee's history shows, with evidence in tournament placing as well as circumstantial evidence through friendlies and months of discussion with the SBR, that an infinite after a grab does not equal a tournament win. You cannot use this as backing.

2. You assume things, because you assumed what happened in the back room when you yourself are not a member. I am, so take my word for it.

2. Dont get grabed! Play smarter! Again, these are common counter attacks from people who most like-ly are 07-08 members (people who cant tell a apple from a rhinoceros). In brawl, shield stun has been reduced GREATLY or maybe even eliminated in some cases! This means that if the attack hits the IC shield, its a grab. Unless u space perfectly, and even then(since there isnt L canceling) u may still be grabed. WD and L-canceling are gone, those 2 things played a major roll in how people got out out of situations, now that its gone.....IC have an advantage here. If you even try to fight this, you have sheer poop for brains.

Wait a minute. For one, this is an assertion. YOU might get grabbed. I don't. I'm good.

Second of all, if you attack someone's shield you deserve to get grabbed and destroyed. Who attacks someone's shield and lands in front of them? Learn to play Brawl. That's like saying Captain Falcon's forward-b should be banned because if you jump out to edgeguard him you get spiked; you just don't do stupid things that put you in those situations. Try, I don't know, not getting grabbed? It's not that difficult, people did it in Melee all the time. It's EASIER in Brawl. I'm not going to go into how, because I don't give out free lessons. Just believe me when I say I'm not worried about Ice Climbers grabbing me.

3. "Well if you ban/semi ban the ICG then u gotta ban XYZ that character XYZ can do." How about you STFU, stop smoking pot and realize that the MAIN REASON why i am banning this ICG. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ESCAPE IT UNLESS THE IC MESSES UP OR THEY ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO GET HIT BY THE LEVEL ENVIORNMENT. 2ndly, falco CG,dedede CG,marth CG on ness/lucas have all been PROVEN to be escape-able. If you want proof of this, go to ****ing youtube and look.

Actually, D3 can chain grab you against a wall forever and kill you. Did I also mention that 3/4 of the cast have infinites that can be done against a wall up to ~120%? You're as good as dead here anyway, so why not ban these too?

I'm gonna go ahead and throw this one out there though... did you come from the future? Because you seem to know that this is inescapable. It may very well be, and that doesn't matter in the slightest to be honest, but how will we know if paranoid TOs start banning it?

What do you mean "stupid enough" to get hit by the level? If I'm playing an Ice Climber, I'm picking a level that prevents them from chain grabbing on my counterpick. If I need to, I'll counterpick with my character. Good luck chain grabbing me when I have a grenade in my hand, keep throwing a gyro/banana/turnip in the air whenever you approach, stand above you on platforms, etc., etc.

4. Arguments like "well a good meta/snake/marth/falco/ect would never lose to this ICG business". Do you know how easy it is to pull off a grab? Just one per stock is not hard. There isnt a pro or noob that does not get grabbed. Again, since the shield system is grab friendly, it makes it even more viable to grab. not to mention u can send out nana to grab well ahead of you. Also, think of it this way: YOU have to stop ALL grabs, THEY only need ONE.

Correction: I don't get grabbed.

We're allowed to just spout off whatever we want, right? Because that's what you're doing. Just because YOU get grabbed all the time means nothing... especially since you obviously don't have Ice Climber experience. I played Ice Climbers in Melee, and it is hard as hell to get grabs off when you're playing someone that knows what they are doing.

5. Some might counter with "oh yea well what about tripping?!?! HA since there are 2 climbers that means there chances of tripping are double, so there IS a way around it". My retort is this: plz go drink iodine and die. Since tripping is EXTREMLY rare and the fact that you only need ONE grab per stock........who cares if u trip 3 times. All u needed was ONE GRAB. And please dont retort with "well practice on not getting grabbed", it doesnt work like that and ALL of you know it. THEY NEED ONE GRAB.

You do realize that tripping only occurs on the dash animation? The Ice Climbers walk when they chain grab. They can't trip. You don't even know the basic fundamental information about this tactic, yet preach like an authority.

6. Some people claim that the ICG is EXTREMLY hard to do and its even harder cause its different per character. I FULLY AGREE!!!! Except when all u see is a max of 10 characters per tourney, its kinda easy to remember the timing for only 10 characters. I swear on anthing you want that if you sit down for 2-3 weeks and practice ICG it will become easier. So the arguement of "its super hard to do so it shouldnt be banned' is retared.

Evolution in the tournament scene is big. If the Ice Climbers get popular and people realize "oh hey, this guy can chain grab Snake, ROB, Metaknight, and G&W al day", then perhaps they'd learn to play someone else? Why would you WANT only 10 characters in the tournament scene anyway? You're banning one of the only things that is speeding up the process! That's irresponsible as a TO.

7. Just like our president(wether you like or dislike him) i am taking out the trash(ICG) BEFORE it starts to stink(cause problems or screw up tourney results). I am not claiming that the world will all pick up IC to win tournies. its not about winning tournies. Its about IC beating people who are clearly better than they are due to ICG.

You just used the Iraq war to defend your banning of a tactic in Brawl.

...

Problem is, you aren't a genius. You aren't a savant. Hell, you can't even type properly. You don't KNOW that something bad will happen; you're guessing. Problem is, you're going to ruin Texas' tournament scene if this picks up because no one else that is worth their salt is going to ban something like this. Texas, the state that COULD have had some of the first players that can IC chain grab and beat the IC chain grab, will now be the state that loses to them due to inexperience.

Congrats.

I thought I might add... beating people who are clearly better than they are? What are you smoking? You win games, you're better. End of story. I could be super technical with Pichu in Melee all I want, but if you come in with Sheik and destroy me by chain grabbing, that makes you better. Just because I'm doing something special or different means nothing. Just because what you do is easy means nothing. It just means I picked the wrong path to improvement. Play the game you are given, and play the best you can. Don't give out freebies because people picked the wrong character. So Ness has trouble with Marth grabs him and mashes Z. Big whoop, sucks for Ness. ICs can infinite? Sucks for everyone else. They can deal with it, or we'll see ICs everywhere in tournament really soon. You ban it then; not before, but after. That's what good TOs do. Bad TOs cripple their tournaments with ignorant rules.

8. When you people respond. I ASK that you PLZ take it from my point of view and at least ATTEMPT to consider how it feels for people who get 3 and 4 stocked from ICG hen in reality they may have been the better player.

Looks like someone needs to learn to play against Ice Climbers and revise their strategy. Just because your friend's Snake is a beast playing Metaknight and G&W doesn't mean that he's going to be a beast playing Ice Climbers.

9. I will run my tournaments how i see fit. if you cant handle that......plz commit suicide.

The common trend with ban-happy TOs is this:

Step 1. They are ridiculed
Step 2. People suck it up and go to their tournaments anyway, hating the rules, because they want tournaments
Step 3. People complain at said tournament about how stupid the rule/s is/are.
Step 4. Someone says they are hosting a tournament without said rule
Step 5. People go to new tournament
Step 6. People don't have to deal with old TO anymore.
Step 7. Old TO is now a joke and a footnote.


Don't be that guy. Be the wise TO that tells people who scream "BAN THE CHAIN GRAB" to calm down, and look closely at those using the chain grab. "Well see, he lost to that guy. Why'd he lose to him and not you? Go ask him. He knows something you don't."

Actually, you should do that. Ask people that know something you don't.

 

[choknater]

all you have to do is when your BURST gauge is full press dust + any other button!

LOL that's funny, you're a funny man

and thanks OS for being too good and taking the time to write all that out. tgm isn't seeing the obvious. there was never a good reason to ban an infinite combo in smash. ESPECIALLY a difficult one.

 

[Undrdog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KirbyandSonicrock14
All, I have to say is a move is move, and it has ways to be broken out of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corner-Trap
Why is this thread still alive? The TO obviously lacks a brain and won't listen to reason, so why bother arguing. I'm just glad this scrub doesn't run any tourneys in NC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Ice
This will probably get ignored (again) because I'm an 07 user *gasp*. But people don't seem to see why you wait before banning a tactic unless it is obviously for the intent of stalling. If you ban everything instantly you have no time to find a way around it. One tournament is not enough to deem a tactic as unbeatable. I spent a grand total of about 2 minutes looking for a way out of their chain grab and I've already found why it isn't as infinite as people make it out to be. Many people think that once you get grabbed it is over, which is simply not true. I spent about 2 minutes going to training mode, grabbing someone and then trying to mash my way out and at 1/4 speed I could get out before nana recovered form the dash grab animation at 150%. At normal speed I could get out at 65% and that's with the time I have to spend to grab the other controller. People could easily learn to react fast enough and get out 80% and maybe even more, at which point a charge smash can usually kill you. And also, this is considering that the IC start the infinite right after they can, which is very hard considering the timing and Nana's habits of sliding around to get behind you. Try learning to deal with something instead of crying for a ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy_Eagle
Would you mind stop spouting about 07-08 members lacking intelligence and ignoring posts like owerswarm's and try to refute some of their arguments.

It also gets to me how it's ok banning it because of few players using IC's, seriously, what kind of argument is that?

What I don't get at all though is how you have to hold on to that ban you made when the IC's have better and easier zero deaths (i woudln't know btw) as you claim. Where's the logic in that.

I don't even need to argue against this ban myself as other posters have already brought up grear arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corner-Trap
TGM's reputation just went down the toilet.


ROFL at 07-08 member posts

And yet they all make far more sense then you... Go figure.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

And yet they all make far more sense then you... Go figure.

not to mention that I joined in '06 <_< he can't even use his broken logic properly.

How about posting why you still insist on enforcing the ban instead of "lol noobs" xyro? We're already aware that you don't consider 07-08 members credible

 

[Xyro77]

Seriously, reply to overswarm.


Also, think about what evo is doing right now. You are Evo TGM.

Now now hylian, dont be dumb. What i just did compared to the new EVO rules is completly different.


And i just said im done with this thread. BUT IF U MUST HAVE A REPLAY TO OVERSWARM....give me a sec to learn how to multiquote since his was freakin huge.

 

[PassWurD]

Stop johning

 

[CorruptFate]

So after reading what the Back room has said about this and points that I can't make a good argument against. I think that I'm going to change my mind about the IC's z grabbing I still think its cheap and retarted, but not banable. No matter how many times I lose to billy the goat I know that he is better then me and that beats being cheap right there.

 

[Xyro77]

_______________________________________________________________________________________

I'm going to go ahead and say this:

You're an 04 member but.... who are you?


That didn't make you feel very good, did it? Someone who has traveled the country, been flown to New York to write about Ken and Azen playing head to head, won smash tournaments, been placed in the back room, laughed and played with M3D, Alpha Zealot, the Kishes, JV, and some of the other biggest contributers to the smash community saying that must either make you very depressed, embarassed, or angry.

Now, seeing as I can puff up my chest and ego with similar statements to the above, if I told you that Zelda shouldn't be allowed to change into Sheik because it was broken for her to have two characters, would my standing and experience make me any more or less wrong?

Experience is a big factor in any decision because experience = stimulated brain. Whether you picked up the lessons or not is a different story. Seeing as how you're banning IC chain grabs... well that just goes to show that some people need to take notes in class.


That said, you can't just take someone's join date as a give or take all method of debate. You use words and your brain.

Does it make me angry/sad/mad/ect that you dont know me? Nope. This is not what im here for.

Plz dont use zelda to shiek example. That transformation does NOTHING even slightly close to what IC can do with their ICG. I would expect that comment from an 07- 08 member.

As for me needing to take notes. Thats your opinion. i gave solid reasons why i ban ICG and and u will see it AGAIN below. if you dont think so....then thats your OPINION

And the SBR is afraid of backlash, if you did something the majority of people disliked(even though you guys were right) they would ignore you and do what they want. You know this to be true.

Good thing you know what goes on in the back room. Afraid of backlash? Backlash of whom? What would they do? The back room does what it does to make a better smash community and to make sure all the people that help it grow are on the same page and know all their options. We aren't afraid of "backlash".

That said, it was discussed. Thoroughly. At length. Over and over and over again.

It wasn't banned because it didn't fit the criteria. For one, it didn't win tournaments. There were two players that used Wobbling that placed well. Wobbles and Chu Dat.

TOs that were inexperienced or were afraid of low attendance numbers or just plain biased against it since they didn't play ICs went ahead and banned it in droves.

Wobbles and Chu Dat still went to tournaments.

Upon reviewing their placement in several tournaments, we discovered that they were, oddly enough, consistent! Surprisingly, Chu Dat actually placed LOWER at all tournaments that allowed Wobbling (and no, it wasn't because he didn't use it and/or got wobbled himself). Removing wobbling did little more than removing Fox's back throw to shine spike would. It was just a technique that added to the character, not the character itself, nor the player.

Sure, there were a few players out there that picked up ICs, learned to Wobble, and won a match or two. Where did they win these matches? At the bottom of the round robin. These players didn't even make it into brackets. The only reason they won their matches using wobbling was because they were playing against equally inexperienced opponents that didn't know what to do.

So far, we've already determined

1. Melee's history shows, with evidence in tournament placing as well as circumstantial evidence through friendlies and months of discussion with the SBR, that an infinite after a grab does not equal a tournament win. You cannot use this as backing.

2. You assume things, because you assumed what happened in the back room when you yourself are not a member. I am, so take my word for it.

Again you fail to READ MY POSTS! I am not saying ICG or wobbling will win tournaments. Im saying how many times has a wobble or ICG beat some on in tourney when the player who was wobbled or ICG could have won the match if it was banned? Dont relate wobbling to a foxs bair to shine, its completely diff and u know that.........07-08 members do that(if they even played melee).

Wait a minute. For one, this is an assertion. YOU might get grabbed. I don't. I'm good.

Second of all, if you attack someone's shield you deserve to get grabbed and destroyed. Who attacks someone's shield and lands in front of them? Learn to play Brawl. That's like saying Captain Falcon's forward-b should be banned because if you jump out to edgeguard him you get spiked; you just don't do stupid things that put you in those situations. Try, I don't know, not getting grabbed? It's not that difficult, people did it in Melee all the time. It's EASIER in Brawl. I'm not going to go into how, because I don't give out free lessons. Just believe me when I say I'm not worried about Ice Climbers grabbing me.

Are you sure you didnt steal an 06 account? Because that was pretty d@mn ******** what u said. I dont need to know you or see any of your matches to know u get grabbed. every one on earth gets grabed. YOU CANNOT PREVENT YOUR SELF FROM GETTING GRABED IN BRAWL. ESPECIALY WHEN MOBILIT HAS BEEN GREATLY REDUCED FROM WHERE IT WAS IN MELEE. I thought you knew that but maybe you didnt take notes in class.

Actually, D3 can chain grab you against a wall forever and kill you. Did I also mention that 3/4 of the cast have infinites that can be done against a wall up to ~120%? You're as good as dead here anyway, so why not ban these too?

I'm gonna go ahead and throw this one out there though... did you come from the future? Because you seem to know that this is inescapable. It may very well be, and that doesn't matter in the slightest to be honest, but how will we know if paranoid TOs start banning it?

What do you mean "stupid enough" to get hit by the level? If I'm playing an Ice Climber, I'm picking a level that prevents them from chain grabbing on my counterpick. If I need to, I'll counterpick with my character. Good luck chain grabbing me when I have a grenade in my hand, keep throwing a gyro/banana/turnip in the air whenever you approach, stand above you on platforms, etc., etc.

wall infinites are always banned.

I am from the future. Its inescapable. The end.

You cant ALWAYS hold an item. and ive seen chain grabs from kids in lubbock texas that require 1-2 steps forward or backward. So platforms are nothing to fear.

Correction: I don't get grabbed.

We're allowed to just spout off whatever we want, right? Because that's what you're doing. Just because YOU get grabbed all the time means nothing... especially since you obviously don't have Ice Climber experience. I played Ice Climbers in Melee, and it is hard as hell to get grabs off when you're playing someone that knows what they are doing.

you DO get grabed. We all do. This whole thing isnt about you. its about the other ones out there that get ***** unfairly by this.

You do realize that tripping only occurs on the dash animation? The Ice Climbers walk when they chain grab. They can't trip. You don't even know the basic fundamental information about this tactic, yet preach like an authority.

im sorry, when i posted that i assumed you were smart. thats what i get from trusting and 07-08 member who might have stole an 06 account.

IC will not walk to grab a foe at all times. there are times where they may need to dash grab.

Evolution in the tournament scene is big. If the Ice Climbers get popular and people realize "oh hey, this guy can chain grab Snake, ROB, Metaknight, and G&W al day", then perhaps they'd learn to play someone else? Why would you WANT only 10 characters in the tournament scene anyway? You're banning one of the only things that is speeding up the process! That's irresponsible as a TO.

there is no need to force those Metas/snakes/rob/g&w to use different chars because of a move that u cant escape from. u ban the move. simple.

no matter what happens here, the scene will shrink to about 5-6 characters like melee did.

Problem is, you're going to ruin Texas' tournament scene if this picks up because no one else that is worth their salt is going to ban something like this. Texas, the state that COULD have had some of the first players that can IC chain grab and beat the IC chain grab, will now be the state that loses to them due to inexperience.

Congrats.

I thought I might add... beating people who are clearly better than they are? What are you smoking? You win games, you're better. End of story.

You dont know about texas, so plz dont try to act like you do. I have held/ran/help run more tournaments in texas than anybody else. People will stop going when my rules become "screwed up". So STFU and GTFO while i LMAO.

Im banning a tech that VERY FEW people use with a character that VERY FEW Its called PREPARING for what MIGHT happen. Plus, any GOOD ic will know that ICG isn the only thing u can do to decimate ALL characters.

Looks like someone needs to learn to play against Ice Climbers and revise their strategy. Just because your friend's Snake is a beast playing Metaknight and G&W doesn't mean that he's going to be a beast playing Ice Climbers.

looks like some one still doesnt understand that it takes ONE grab to take away a stock no matter how god or bad both players are. I have seen HORRIBLE players PERFECT the wobble or ICG and beat good players off of just getting 4 grabs in a match.

The common trend with ban-happy TOs is this:

Step 1. They are ridiculed
Step 2. People suck it up and go to their tournaments anyway, hating the rules, because they want tournaments
Step 3. People complain at said tournament about how stupid the rule/s is/are.
Step 4. Someone says they are hosting a tournament without said rule
Step 5. People go to new tournament
Step 6. People don't have to deal with old TO anymore.
Step 7. Old TO is now a joke and a footnote.

good thing this has never happened to me and it never will. ive hosted/ran/help run over 50 smash events.......and im still going strong.

Don't be that guy. Be the wise TO that tells people who scream "BAN THE CHAIN GRAB" to calm down, and look closely at those using the chain grab. "Well see, he lost to that guy. Why'd he lose to him and not you? Go ask him. He knows something you don't."

Actually, you should do that. Ask people that know something you don't.

How about i ban somthing that cant be escaped from and dont worry about questions.


















PS: my spelling is bad. sorry.

 

[PassWurD]

You have failed, because you have acted like a "07-08" member by your standards, again

 

[Tank McCannon]

If he's running the tournaments, why shouldn't he be allowed to make the rules?

If you don't like his rules, then just run your own tournaments.

 

[Xyro77]

If he's running the tournaments, why shouldn't he be allowed to make the rules?

If you don't like his rules, then just run your own tournaments.

i like you

 

[Azuro]

When he's the one running a great deal of the Texas tournaments, then it becomes an issue.

Thing is, until it is shown that their ICG is winning tournaments, what other reason do you have to ban it? Potential? Potentially it can end up being escapable. You never know.

 

[Xyro77]

i do know u cant escape it. ive seen vids, read documents and talk to people who do it.

 

[Tank McCannon]

When he's the one running a great deal of the Texas tournaments, then it becomes an issue.

Thing is, until it is shown that their ICG is winning tournaments, what other reason do you have to ban it? Potential? Potentially it can end up being escapable. You never know.

If people in Texas care about their smash scene, they'll run their own tournaments instead of depending on one guy.

If his decision becomes so unpopular that he gets a no show at his next tournament, then I'm sure he'll stop or change the rules again. However, if his turn outs continue to be successful, he should keep doing what he's doing.

I don't care if he bans Marth because he looks like a girl. He's going through the trouble of running it, he makes the rules.

 

[Lightning Ice]

i do know u cant escape it. ive seen vids, read documents and talk to people who do it.

If you would stop looking at people's join dates instead of their posts you would notice that you can escape the grab at around 80% and lower after they grab you and if you are fast enough and at a low enough percent you can even escape whiles they are doing it because of the lag from throwing and grabbing

 

[Xyro77]

thats the exact thing as saying "dont get grabed". its something that wont happen.

and i hate to be off topic but i cant hold this to myself. Een though u guys may dislike like me. Plz read this. truly funny ****!!!

A 13-year-old boy from Texas who stole his father's credit card and hired two prostitutes has been convicted of fraud.

Ralph Hardy confessed to ordering an extra credit card from his dad's existing credit card company and taking his pals on a US$30,000 spending spree after which they ended up playing Halo on an Xbox with the hookers in a Texas motel.

The $1000-a-night prostitutes were released without charge but Ralph was given a three year community order upon his conviction on May 9, money.co.uk reported.

The prostitutes told police they grew suspicious when the kids said they'd rather play Xbox than play with them.

Authorities were alerted to the motel by a delivery clerk who, after delivering supplies of Dr Pepper, Oreos and Fritos, was asked by the kids where they could hire some escorts.

They young lotharios explained they'd just won big at a World of Warcraft tournament and wanted to relax.

The delivery clerk called the police who arrived to find $3,000 in cash, electronic gadgets, an Xbox console and games, plus the two prostitutes.

Ralph reportedly told the oficers his dad wouldn't mind, because he'd turned 13 the previous week and he'd forgot to get him a present.

Ralph and Co. told the working girls they were people of restricted growth working with a traveling circus.

They added that State law did not allow discrimination against the disabled so they had no right to refuse them.

Explaining why he ordered two escorts, Ralph said he thought it was the done thing when you win a "World of Warcraft" contest.

The prostitutes ended up playing "Halo" with the kids instead of having sex with them.

 

[salaboB]

thats the exact thing as saying "dont get grabed". its something that wont happen.

So urm...from reading the rest of the thread, does join date give credibility in your eyes or something? Cause I'm going to side with the MBR opinion here and say your logic is screwy and better off not banning if that's all you've got.

I am not saying ICG or wobbling will win tournaments. Im saying how many times has a wobble or ICG beat some on in tourney when the player who was wobbled or ICG could have won the match if it was banned?

Let me swap this for you:
"I'm not saying Fox's bair to shine won tournaments, I'm saying how many times a Fox bair to shine beat someone in a tourney when the player who was baired and then shined would have won the match if it was banned."

So where's the difference? You present this as if it's a fact of some kind, but it's more of a facepalm imo. If you ban a character's move that could be used to finish or heavily damage an opponent, then opponents that would have lost to that move can't lose to it any more. That's all you said, and it proves nothing.

Edit: You are of course welcome to ban whatever you want at your tournaments, but your logic for banning it fails. I'd suggest you stick with "I don't like IC's chaingrabs so I'm banning them".

 

[Lightning Ice]

thats the exact thing as saying "dont get grabed". its something that wont happen.

It's not that hard to predict a grab since most of the time you can see it coming but can't do anything because of the lack of L cancelling or if you get caught in a desynced Nana blizzard(which actually gives you more time to realize what is going on). This chain grab makes the game much more interesting, if you know you're defenseless you have to consider DI if an attack comes and quickly breaking out if it is a grab. Someone who always grabs will not be able to do anything because they are too predictable.

 

[Hylian]

_______________________________________________________________________________________


Does it make me angry/sad/mad/ect that you dont know me? Nope. This is not what im here for.

Plz dont use zelda to shiek example. That transformation does NOTHING even slightly close to what IC can do with their ICG. I would expect that comment from an 07- 08 member.

As for me needing to take notes. Thats your opinion. i gave solid reasons why i ban ICG and and u will see it AGAIN below. if you dont think so....then thats your OPINION

And the SBR is afraid of backlash, if you did something the majority of people disliked(even though you guys were right) they would ignore you and do what they want. You know this to be true.

You completely missed his points. You are bashing 07-08 members because of their experience. He has much more experience then you do. I know he does. I have played overswarm. I don't recall you ever even leaving the state of Texas for a tournament TGM. He has more experience then you. Why should 07-08 members care what you think of them when you contributed very little to the smash scene?

Again you fail to READ MY POSTS! I am not saying ICG or wobbling will win tournaments. Im saying how many times has a wobble or ICG beat some on in tourney when the player who was wobbled or ICG could have won the match if it was banned? Dont relate wobbling to a foxs bair to shine, its completely diff and u know that.........07-08 members do that(if they even played melee).

Apparently, you fail to read his posts. He addressed that. ICG will NEVER make the lesser skilled player win, and you have never seen it happen. I know you haven't, because I am the only person in the world who can 0 - Death with Alt throws consistently and has done it in tournament. Are you saying all of texas is better then me? You don't even mention the fact that I only used IC's 4-5 matches the entire tournament.

Are you sure you didnt steal an 06 account? Because that was pretty d@mn ******** what u said. I dont need to know you or see any of your matches to know u get grabbed. every one on earth gets grabed. YOU CANNOT PREVENT YOUR SELF FROM GETTING GRABED IN BRAWL. ESPECIALY WHEN MOBILIT HAS BEEN GREATLY REDUCED FROM WHERE IT WAS IN MELEE. I thought you knew that but maybe you didnt take notes in class.

Do you realize you keep saying the same thing over and over again?

You obviously lack skill and understanding of this game. It is much harder for IC's to get a grab in brawl then in melee. You want reasons?

IC's have a really short grab range. One of the shortest in the game. In melee, they had the wavedash to compensate for this. It allowed them to follow up their moves well enough to land grabs on people who were not being extremely careful. You cannot wavedash in brawl. This means that the IC's just lost one of their best methods of obtaining a grab.

Another thing. You CANNOT shieldgrab a good player with IC's. You just can't. Almost every single character has a move with considerably more range then IC's grab. It's very easy to space so that they cannot grab you. And now that the IC's can't wavedash, they have no way to make up that range to obtain the grab. They have a very slow running animation, and cannot just drop their shield and run and grab. It doesn't work.

You can't even powershield with IC's. You know what happens if you do? Nana get's hit. She still lags 6 frames (we assume) behind popo. If you powershield, nana get's hit. This eliminates any powershield to grab option the ICs have. So they actually have LESS grab options then any other character.

Maybe you should take your notes in class. Because you are wrong.

wall infinites are always banned.

I am from the future. Its inescapable. The end.

You cant ALWAYS hold an item. and ive seen chain grabs from kids in lubbock texas that require 1-2 steps forward or backward. So platforms are nothing to fear.

Wall infinites have never been banned? Why are you not banning them at your tournaments if they "are always banned."?

And, tell me exactly where you saw the lubbock texas players chaingrab? Did you drive all the way to lubbock to play with them? Basically, you are lying. The only tournament the lubbock players have been to outside of lubbock was trashday, and you were not there. I was however, and I can tell you the method he tried to use to infinite would NOT work on a platform. Nana would fall through it when he hit down. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

you DO get grabed. We all do. This whole thing isnt about you. its about the other ones out there that get ***** unfairly by this.

Uh no, we don't all get grabbed by IC players. We know you do, because you told us. But how could you possibly know if we do or not? I have already explained why it is hard for IC's to get grabs, and even harder to get them under the situation that they could infinite. OS, DOESN'T get grabbed. Thats why he wins tournament and you don't. Because he understands this game.

And no one will be "***** unfairly" by this. Only really bad players, who would of lost anyways. The same kind of players I can beat by just spamming Fsmash. Because they suck. It's only fair that they lose. They haven't put in as much dedication to the game as I have. They are less skilled. Why should they win?

im sorry, when i posted that i assumed you were smart. thats what i get from trusting and 07-08 member who might have stole an 06 account.

IC will not walk to grab a foe at all times. there are times where they may need to dash grab.

They need to dash grab in some variations of the infinite, but you can do it without ever dash grabbing.

there is no need to force those Metas/snakes/rob/g&w to use different chars because of a move that u cant escape from. u ban the move. simple.

no matter what happens here, the scene will shrink to about 5-6 characters like melee did.

Thanks for letting us know the future, Mr. God.

You dont know about texas, so plz dont try to act like you do. I have held/ran/help run more tournaments in texas than anybody else. People will stop going when my rules become "screwed up". So STFU and GTFO while i LMAO.

But I do know texas. I have been smashing competitively in Texas since 2003. I also know, that the houston smash scene was a joke to the rest of texas for a very long time. Most people just made fun of houston at tournaments, because all the trash talk coming out of houston with no one actually ever doing good in tournament. Near the end of melee, houston gained much more respect with players like Sideeffect and Roy_R showing how good they were. But you cannot deny that Houston was the laughing stock of texas of for several years.

Im banning a tech that VERY FEW people use with a character that VERY FEW Its called PREPARING for what MIGHT happen. Plus, any GOOD ic will know that ICG isn the only thing u can do to decimate ALL characters.

How would you know what a good IC would know? Are you a good IC player?

looks like some one still doesnt understand that it takes ONE grab to take away a stock no matter how god or bad both players are. I have seen HORRIBLE players PERFECT the wobble or ICG and beat good players off of just getting 4 grabs in a match.

He understands that perfectly. What you don't understand is that good players don't get grabbed often. And no you have not seen horrible players perfect the ICG and beat good players. You are lying out of your ***. I can do the ICG's better then any one else in the world, and I cannot even do them perfectly. And I am by no means horrible.

Also, I would destroy any IC player in melee in houston. There were NO GOOD IC PLAYERS IN HOUSTON. If someone there lost to wobbling then LOL.

good thing this has never happened to me and it never will. ive hosted/ran/help run over 50 smash events.......and im still going strong.

It's not hard to get attendance when almost no one else is holding tournaments because the rest of texas pretty much hates brawl. Good this Lee Harris is going to start holding Biweeklies near Austin ^_^. This is the perfect reason for other TO's to start up.

 

[Alou]

ROFL at 07-08 member posts

Seriously, please stop with this "07-08 are worse than me" crap. Yes we joined the forum at a date that was later than you, Yes some of us may very well be new to the game, but no that doesn't give you the write to ignore our posts or be a complete jerk towards us just because we may not have been here as long as you. The fact that you continue to act as if we are insignificant means you will probably always be insignificant. Grow up and learn that the numbers below a person's name mean nothing. Grow up and learn that your a complete idiot for banning IC chain grabs. Grow up and understand the concept that you've lost so much credibility and respect in this thread alone.

 

[Ace83]

owned 10char

 

[Binx]

After having read most of this thread I am going to have to agree with Hylian, if you are bad enough to be grabbed by ICs in Brawl ever then you should be chain grabbed to death, their grab is awful in this game except for the damage/kills they can get when they finally do land them, when wobbling was allowed in tournaments the best IC in the entire world still placed the exact same as he did without it, this game is going to be the same, the best IC in the world will lose anyways because their range, speed, and options suck. You are single handedly deciding that one decent move they have out of a grab should be banned just cause, this game is WAY easier to space in than melee, don't get grabbed.

And I am not an 07-08 member so you should believe me. Oh I have lots of posts too, oh and I have a sticked IC match up faq in melee so I am even decent at the game and everything.

 

[Xyro77]

Hylian, im going to stop now. This is going in circles and i dont want our friendship to get f-ed up(your too cool of a person to lose) over a simple banning(or reduction) of the ICG. This was fun at first but now i feel its going too far. Some going to stop.

 

[full_95]

i stopped reading after page 6, but there is a real easy way stop this f@ggotry. simply find a new tournament organizer, and ban the douchebag that is xyro. this dude seems like the new hitler of smash tournies to me. the only thing that matters to him is his opinion and hes obviously on a power trip. so take away the power that he has and get a different tourney host. it cant be that hard.

and xyro, i dont care how good at the game you are, you are still a scrub in principle and a real tough guy over the internet. and **** straight i signed up in 07.

 

[Xyro77]

i stopped reading after page 6, but there is a real easy way stop this ***ottry. simply find a new tournament organizer, and ban the douchebag that is xyro77. this dude seems like the new hitler of smash tournies to me. the only thing that matters to him is his opinion and hes obviously on a power trip. so take away the power that he has and get a different tourney host. it cant be that hard.

and xyro, i dont care how good at the game you are, you are still a scrub in principle.

thanks for your retort!

*throws it in trash can*