Close this please.

[harpuia190]

off the top of my head i can only think of one ice climber player here in utah, i talked to him today about this news and how he has been practicing different chain-grabs with ICs and as annoying stupid i feel it is, i wouldn't ban it, cause then we would have to ban a lot of other things that have already been settled.

He can still win matches in tourneys sometimes with chain grabbing sometimes without, it merely something you got to look out for

Besides i still have nightmares about the day i fight his ICs or his Yoshi in a tourney,

 

[Dr. Hyde]

You are right, i could be. but then again, i might not be.

a response like puts me at a loss for words

 

[Undrdog]

Is it necessary to go down the list and rebut the ones that I feel are incorrect in their assesments? Most of them honestly seem like they're just name calling instead of an actual response.

All I will say is this. Their are other inescapable chaingrabs.

The Ice Climber chaingrab actually forces variety because they are a wildcard in tournaments.


In complete honesty the only point in your nine point approach that I can even agree with you with is number nine. But I'm just saying, it won't take much to blacklist your tournaments. You'll still be able to keep them running, but I sincerely doubt you'll get or keep any big name players. Of course this might not matter to you. I'm just saying.


Plus I'm not a mod, but maybe cut down on the n00b genocide talk? lol


Your join date means nothing. Sure some of the members from 07-08 have come in here green under the gills but many have contributed and made things better for all of us. I see no reason to treat them any different then any other member.

 

[Xyro77]

Is it necessary to go down the list and rebut the ones that I feel are incorrect in their assesments? Most of them honestly seem like they're just name calling instead of an actual response.

All I will say is this. Their are other inescapable chaingrabs.

The Ice Climber chaingrab actually forces variety because they are a wildcard in tournaments.


In complete honesty the only point in your nine point approach that I can even agree with you with is number nine. But I'm just saying, it won't take much to blacklist your tournaments. You'll still be able to keep them running, but I sincerely doubt you'll get or keep any big name players. Of course this might not matter to you. I'm just saying.


Plus I'm not a mod, but maybe cut down on the n00b genocide talk? lol


Your join date means nothing. Sure some of the members from 07-08 have come in here green under the gills but many have contributed and made things better for all of us. I see no reason to treat them any different then any other member.

The 08's that contribute i respect greatly but none of them are here in this thread.

My tournaments will not be black listed. too many people go and too many good players place very well. That part cant be ignored. Texas best player sethlon is still texas best player wether ICG is banned or not. people will come to play him and others no matter what. People will still go to OC4 even though at OC3 Arash and his pals stole/riped people off of thier money. Ive been doing tournies for a very long time. Ive been down this road before.

 

[Mokai]

Again with the so called experience, you could be playing smash brothers since 04 but you may still be inferior to others, including people that started after and before you.

Exactly. And he's yet to accept responsibility and apologize for his earlier comment directed at newer members that myself and some others called him out on clear back on page 3. I find it strange how Xyro's general attitude seems to be "Hey, come on! Put down your pitchforks for just a moment and hear me out. If you listen to what I have to say perhaps you'll understand." and yet he won't even give the time of day to anyone he deems to be "new".

I've been playing the series since 1999, but so what? It's just a number, not a representation of me as a person. It says absolutely nothing about who I am, what I think or how good I am at Smash Brothers Brawl. I hate saying unkind things to people, Xyro, but come down off your high horse. It's that condescending attitude of yours that's going to make you more enemies than you need. You can start by apologizing.

 

[Xyro77]

Exactly. And he's yet to accept responsibility and apologize for his earlier comment directed at newer members that myself and some others called him out on clear back on page 3. I find it strange how Xyro's general attitude seems to be "Hey, come on! Put down your pitchforks for just a moment and hear me out. If you listen to what I have to say perhaps you'll understand." and yet he won't even give the time of day to anyone he deems to be "new".

i refuse to answer your questions because they are answered in the section below. Thats one reason why i dislike 07-08 members. Want an apology? read and stop asking questions that are already answered and i will apologize and spit shine your shoes.

1. Lets talk melee for a sec. In melee wobbling/infinite chain grabbing(ICG) were never OFFICIALy banned. The back room took the easy way out(are were afraid of the backlash if they decided to ban it) and decided to let the tournament host create the rules. So in Brawl, I dont give a **** about backlash and i will take the stand of stoping the train wreck before it happens. And what i mean by that is this: i have seen time and time again(and most of you have to, although u wont admit it) that there have been matches in melee and brawl where player 1 is clearly better than player 2 (based of of previous tourney placings/MMs) but yet player 2 pulls off a wobble or ICG due to a single grab and take a match from player 1. Tell me is this "fair"?

2. Dont get grabed! Play smarter! Again, these are common counter attacks from people who most like-ly are 07-08 members (people who cant tell a apple from a rhinoceros). In brawl, shield stun has been reduced GREATLY or maybe even eliminated in some cases! This means that if the attack hits the IC shield, its a grab. Unless u space perfectly, and even then(since there isnt L canceling) u may still be grabed. WD and L-canceling are gone, those 2 things played a major roll in how people got out out of situations, now that its gone.....IC have an advantage here. If you even try to fight this, you have sheer poop for brains.

3. "Well if you ban/semi ban the ICG then u gotta ban XYZ that character XYZ can do." How about you STFU, stop smoking pot and realize that the MAIN REASON why i am banning this ICG. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ESCAPE IT UNLESS THE IC MESSES UP OR THEY ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO GET HIT BY THE LEVEL ENVIORNMENT. 2ndly, falco CG,dedede CG,marth CG on ness/lucas have all been PROVEN to be escape-able. If you want proof of this, go to ****ing youtube and look.

4. Arguments like "well a good meta/snake/marth/falco/ect would never lose to this ICG business". Do you know how easy it is to pull off a grab? Just one per stock is not hard. There isnt a pro or noob that does not get grabbed. Again, since the shield system is grab friendly, it makes it even more viable to grab. not to mention u can send out nana to grab well ahead of you. Also, think of it this way: YOU have to stop ALL grabs, THEY only need ONE.

5. Some might counter with "oh yea well what about tripping?!?! HA since there are 2 climbers that means there chances of tripping are double, so there IS a way around it". My retort is this: plz go drink iodine and die. Since tripping is EXTREMLY rare and the fact that you only need ONE grab per stock........who cares if u trip 3 times. All u needed was ONE GRAB. And please dont retort with "well practice on not getting grabbed", it doesnt work like that and ALL of you know it. THEY NEED ONE GRAB.

5a. Hylian, if you read this before u check out the houston thread, plz go read my post in the houston thread. Im willing to make a deal with you.

6. Some people claim that the ICG is EXTREMLY hard to do and its even harder cause its different per character. I FULLY AGREE!!!! Except when all u see is a max of 10 characters per tourney, its kinda easy to remember the timing for only 10 characters. I swear on anthing you want that if you sit down for 2-3 weeks and practice ICG it will become easier. So the arguement of "its super hard to do so it shouldnt be banned' is retared.

7. Just like our president(wether you like or dislike him) i am taking out the trash(ICG) BEFORE it starts to stink(cause problems or screw up tourney results). I am not claiming that the world will all pick up IC to win tournies. its not about winning tournies. Its about IC beating people who are clearly better than they are due to ICG.

8. When you people respond. I ASK that you PLZ take it from my point of view and at least ATTEMPT to consider how it feels for people who get 3 and 4 stocked from ICG hen in reality they may have been the better player.

9. I will run my tournaments how i see fit. if you cant handle that......plz commit suicide.

 

[Undrdog]

I really don't think you have unless you've done something this objectable during the Melee days. This rule isn't going to be mainstream and therefore will not be looked at kindly by the competitive community. It's going against the grain of competitive Smash and in all honesty, and player worth their salt will probably avoid your tournaments. I'm just concerned about the people who have no other outlet for competitive Smash. They will continue coming to your events and as a result will not develop through these events.

In the end you might discredit the opinions of the people who've chimed in thus far. But the SBR, a group of people who consist of only those who are respected in the Smash Community find this decision to be damaging to the Smash Community. This certainly goes for most people in between as well.

Oh and just to point out, King Dedede can infinitely chaingrab Samus. Zero to 999%... When people say "if you ban this you're going to be pressured into banning everything just as bad" are right on the button. There are easier and just as inescapable tactics in this game.

I joined here just one month after you did if your join date is correct. I just can't imagine such prejudice against certain people's opinions.

 

[grandmaster192]

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[Xyro77]

I really don't think you have unless you've done something this objectable during the Melee days. This rule isn't going to be mainstream and therefore will not be looked at kindly by the competitive community. It's going against the grain of competitive Smash and in all honesty, and player worth their salt will probably avoid your tournaments. I'm just concerned about the people who have no other outlet for competitive Smash. They will continue coming to your events and as a result will not develop through these events.

In the end you might discredit the opinions of the people who've chimed in thus far. But the SBR, a group of people who consist of only those who are respected in the Smash Community find this decision to be damaging to the Smash Community. This certainly goes for most people in between as well.

Oh and just to point out, King Dedede can infinitely chaingrab Samus. Zero to 999%... When people say "if you ban this you're going to be pressured into banning everything just as bad" are right on the button. There are easier and just as inescapable tactics in this game.

I joined here just one month after you did if your join date is correct. I just can't imagine such prejudice against certain people's opinions.

unless there is a wall, dedede will run out of space to continue CG. this is how u get out of it.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

i refuse to answer your questions because they are answered in the section below. Thats one reason why i dislike 07-08 members. Want an apology? read and stop asking questions that are already answered and i will apologize and spit shine your shoes.

Well being a tournament tycoon has made you quite a bigot eh? wanna start counting post to see who has been contributing more to the boards next?

I really don't think you have unless you've done something this objectable during the Melee days. This rule isn't going to be mainstream and therefore will not be looked at kindly by the competitive community. It's going against the grain of competitive Smash and in all honesty, and player worth their salt will probably avoid your tournaments. I'm just concerned about the people who have no other outlet for competitive Smash. They will continue coming to your events and as a result will not develop through these events.

In the end you might discredit the opinions of the people who've chimed in thus far. But the SBR, a group of people who consist of only those who are respected in the Smash Community find this decision to be damaging to the Smash Community. This certainly goes for most people in between as well.

Oh and just to point out, King Dedede can infinitely chaingrab Samus. Zero to 999%... When people say "if you ban this you're going to be pressured into banning everything just as bad" are right on the button. There are easier and just as inescapable tactics in this game.

I joined here just one month after you did if your join date is correct. I just can't imagine such prejudice against certain people's opinions.

^^ I think has the right idea even if Xryo won't listen to him.

Also the reason he has such high prejudice are because people aren't think the way he wants them to and wants them to die. That way he doesn't have to point to his 9 flawed reasons to live you life guide he won't put down.

 

[petrie911]

i have seen time and time again(and most of you have to, although u wont admit it) that there have been matches in melee and brawl where player 1 is clearly better than player 2 (based of of previous tourney placings/MMs) but yet player 2 pulls off a wobble or ICG due to a single grab and take a match from player 1. Tell me is this "fair"?

I've seen a lot of matches, and I'll admit I've never seen that. So could you post a video of an IC player in Brawl who steals the match from a clearly more skilled opponent because of the chain grab? Or even better multiple videos?

 

[Mokai]

i refuse to answer your questions because they are answered in the section below. Thats one reason why i dislike 07-08 members. Want an apology? read and stop asking questions that are already answered and i will apologize and spit shine your shoes.

Funny thing though. I don't recall ever asking any questions. No disrespect intended, but perhaps it's you who needs to read a little more clearly.

 

[Undrdog]

Actually no... Dedede doesn't even have to move against certain characters. He can grab Samus again before she gets out of range without ever having to move.

Honestly as a TO I'd expect you'd know these things.

 

[Sundown]

its ok guys, the SBR wont ban this, (and if they do, they will in 2 years or more, when 5 of the top 6 in every tournament is IC using this technique... just like now with snake hehe), so you IC mains go ahead and keep training ur CGs, it WONT be banned at any big tournament that matters.

Sucks for the texas players, im sorry for you guys, your metagame will suck .

This wont be banned by the SBR until it proves IN PRACTICE (and not in theory... "i stand by stoping the train before the wreck"... lmao dude) that it is broken, and that wont come in at least one year or more.

Dont worry

 

[Xyro77]

Funny thing though. I don't recall ever asking any questions. No disrespect intended, but perhaps it's you who needs to read a little more clearly.

i responded to your post assuming u actually read some thing in this thread. If you did you would see there have been many posts where i do not respond too.

To petrie: lucky for you i have 15 vids of sethlon winning majority on hylian then hylian busts out IC for ICG and wins the match....and even if i didnt have the vids. you KNOW this is happening all across america. tourney or not.

to Hyde: i dont want every body to think the way i do. i want people to SEE the way im coming from. You dont have to agree, just UNDERSTAND where im coming from.

to sundown: texas is probly the 3rd best state right now.

 

[Undrdog]

I really am curious though now Xyro. I didn't really care before but it's been eating away at me. Did you really not know about the King Dedede chaingrab on Samus? You seem to main Samus and King Dedede is a very popular tournament character.

 

[Nintendogs]

Originally posted by XYRO:

6. Some people claim that the ICG is EXTREMLY hard to do and its even harder cause its different per character. I FULLY AGREE!!!! Except when all u see is a max of 10 characters per tourney, its kinda easy to remember the timing for only 10 characters. I swear on anthing you want that if you sit down for 2-3 weeks and practice ICG it will become easier. So the arguement of "its super hard to do so it shouldnt be banned' is retared.

Try and do more than 4 or 5 forward throws in a row on Meta or Snake and put it on Youtube lol.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Where you are coming from is fine and all but even if I try my hardest to force my self to see everything you have been through watching vids now, I still would not be able to deny myself a difficult fight. The only difficult fight for me is on Skyworld. Then and only then do I see how you feel and understand your belief.

 

[Overswarm]

UndrDog, as an 04 member you have seen and exprienced LOTS AND LOTS of things like i have. So i would think that you will understand where im coming from even though you may not AGREE with it. All my reasoning is in this section below. Every thing i have typed is TRUE. Some say i shouldnt ban it so early while othe say i shouldnt ban it at all. I say, i dislike a move that at be escaped out of unless the IC mess up.

This part isnt aimed at you UndrDog.

I declare that if any one responds to my posts in a way that shows they did not read the below section, i will respond to you with the same section you should have read.

I'm going to go ahead and say this:

You're an 04 member but.... who are you?


That didn't make you feel very good, did it? Someone who has traveled the country, been flown to New York to write about Ken and Azen playing head to head, won smash tournaments, been placed in the back room, laughed and played with M3D, Alpha Zealot, the Kishes, JV, and some of the other biggest contributers to the smash community saying that must either make you very depressed, embarassed, or angry.

Now, seeing as I can puff up my chest and ego with similar statements to the above, if I told you that Zelda shouldn't be allowed to change into Sheik because it was broken for her to have two characters, would my standing and experience make me any more or less wrong?

Experience is a big factor in any decision because experience = stimulated brain. Whether you picked up the lessons or not is a different story. Seeing as how you're banning IC chain grabs... well that just goes to show that some people need to take notes in class.


That said, you can't just take someone's join date as a give or take all method of debate. You use words and your brain.

So without further ado, I present wall of text:

1. Lets talk melee for a sec. In melee wobbling/infinite chain grabbing(ICG) were never OFFICIALy banned. The back room took the easy way out(are were afraid of the backlash if they decided to ban it) and decided to let the tournament host create the rules. So in Brawl, I dont give a **** about backlash and i will take the stand of stoping the train wreck before it happens. And what i mean by that is this: i have seen time and time again(and most of you have to, although u wont admit it) that there have been matches in melee and brawl where player 1 is clearly better than player 2 (based of of previous tourney placings/MMs) but yet player 2 pulls off a wobble or ICG due to a single grab and take a match from player 1. Tell me is this "fair"?

Good thing you know what goes on in the back room. Afraid of backlash? Backlash of whom? What would they do? The back room does what it does to make a better smash community and to make sure all the people that help it grow are on the same page and know all their options. We aren't afraid of "backlash".

That said, it was discussed. Thoroughly. At length. Over and over and over again.

It wasn't banned because it didn't fit the criteria. For one, it didn't win tournaments. There were two players that used Wobbling that placed well. Wobbles and Chu Dat.

TOs that were inexperienced or were afraid of low attendance numbers or just plain biased against it since they didn't play ICs went ahead and banned it in droves.

Wobbles and Chu Dat still went to tournaments.

Upon reviewing their placement in several tournaments, we discovered that they were, oddly enough, consistent! Surprisingly, Chu Dat actually placed LOWER at all tournaments that allowed Wobbling (and no, it wasn't because he didn't use it and/or got wobbled himself). Removing wobbling did little more than removing Fox's back throw to shine spike would. It was just a technique that added to the character, not the character itself, nor the player.

Sure, there were a few players out there that picked up ICs, learned to Wobble, and won a match or two. Where did they win these matches? At the bottom of the round robin. These players didn't even make it into brackets. The only reason they won their matches using wobbling was because they were playing against equally inexperienced opponents that didn't know what to do.

So far, we've already determined

1. Melee's history shows, with evidence in tournament placing as well as circumstantial evidence through friendlies and months of discussion with the SBR, that an infinite after a grab does not equal a tournament win. You cannot use this as backing.

2. You assume things, because you assumed what happened in the back room when you yourself are not a member. I am, so take my word for it.

2. Dont get grabed! Play smarter! Again, these are common counter attacks from people who most like-ly are 07-08 members (people who cant tell a apple from a rhinoceros). In brawl, shield stun has been reduced GREATLY or maybe even eliminated in some cases! This means that if the attack hits the IC shield, its a grab. Unless u space perfectly, and even then(since there isnt L canceling) u may still be grabed. WD and L-canceling are gone, those 2 things played a major roll in how people got out out of situations, now that its gone.....IC have an advantage here. If you even try to fight this, you have sheer poop for brains.

Wait a minute. For one, this is an assertion. YOU might get grabbed. I don't. I'm good.

Second of all, if you attack someone's shield you deserve to get grabbed and destroyed. Who attacks someone's shield and lands in front of them? Learn to play Brawl. That's like saying Captain Falcon's forward-b should be banned because if you jump out to edgeguard him you get spiked; you just don't do stupid things that put you in those situations. Try, I don't know, not getting grabbed? It's not that difficult, people did it in Melee all the time. It's EASIER in Brawl. I'm not going to go into how, because I don't give out free lessons. Just believe me when I say I'm not worried about Ice Climbers grabbing me.

3. "Well if you ban/semi ban the ICG then u gotta ban XYZ that character XYZ can do." How about you STFU, stop smoking pot and realize that the MAIN REASON why i am banning this ICG. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ESCAPE IT UNLESS THE IC MESSES UP OR THEY ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO GET HIT BY THE LEVEL ENVIORNMENT. 2ndly, falco CG,dedede CG,marth CG on ness/lucas have all been PROVEN to be escape-able. If you want proof of this, go to ****ing youtube and look.

Actually, D3 can chain grab you against a wall forever and kill you. Did I also mention that 3/4 of the cast have infinites that can be done against a wall up to ~120%? You're as good as dead here anyway, so why not ban these too?

I'm gonna go ahead and throw this one out there though... did you come from the future? Because you seem to know that this is inescapable. It may very well be, and that doesn't matter in the slightest to be honest, but how will we know if paranoid TOs start banning it?

What do you mean "stupid enough" to get hit by the level? If I'm playing an Ice Climber, I'm picking a level that prevents them from chain grabbing on my counterpick. If I need to, I'll counterpick with my character. Good luck chain grabbing me when I have a grenade in my hand, keep throwing a gyro/banana/turnip in the air whenever you approach, stand above you on platforms, etc., etc.

4. Arguments like "well a good meta/snake/marth/falco/ect would never lose to this ICG business". Do you know how easy it is to pull off a grab? Just one per stock is not hard. There isnt a pro or noob that does not get grabbed. Again, since the shield system is grab friendly, it makes it even more viable to grab. not to mention u can send out nana to grab well ahead of you. Also, think of it this way: YOU have to stop ALL grabs, THEY only need ONE.

Correction: I don't get grabbed.

We're allowed to just spout off whatever we want, right? Because that's what you're doing. Just because YOU get grabbed all the time means nothing... especially since you obviously don't have Ice Climber experience. I played Ice Climbers in Melee, and it is hard as hell to get grabs off when you're playing someone that knows what they are doing.

5. Some might counter with "oh yea well what about tripping?!?! HA since there are 2 climbers that means there chances of tripping are double, so there IS a way around it". My retort is this: plz go drink iodine and die. Since tripping is EXTREMLY rare and the fact that you only need ONE grab per stock........who cares if u trip 3 times. All u needed was ONE GRAB. And please dont retort with "well practice on not getting grabbed", it doesnt work like that and ALL of you know it. THEY NEED ONE GRAB.

You do realize that tripping only occurs on the dash animation? The Ice Climbers walk when they chain grab. They can't trip. You don't even know the basic fundamental information about this tactic, yet preach like an authority.

6. Some people claim that the ICG is EXTREMLY hard to do and its even harder cause its different per character. I FULLY AGREE!!!! Except when all u see is a max of 10 characters per tourney, its kinda easy to remember the timing for only 10 characters. I swear on anthing you want that if you sit down for 2-3 weeks and practice ICG it will become easier. So the arguement of "its super hard to do so it shouldnt be banned' is retared.

Evolution in the tournament scene is big. If the Ice Climbers get popular and people realize "oh hey, this guy can chain grab Snake, ROB, Metaknight, and G&W al day", then perhaps they'd learn to play someone else? Why would you WANT only 10 characters in the tournament scene anyway? You're banning one of the only things that is speeding up the process! That's irresponsible as a TO.

7. Just like our president(wether you like or dislike him) i am taking out the trash(ICG) BEFORE it starts to stink(cause problems or screw up tourney results). I am not claiming that the world will all pick up IC to win tournies. its not about winning tournies. Its about IC beating people who are clearly better than they are due to ICG.[/quo[te

You just used the Iraq war to defend your banning of a tactic in Brawl.

...

Problem is, you aren't a genius. You aren't a savant. Hell, you can't even type properly. You don't KNOW that something bad will happen; you're guessing. Problem is, you're going to ruin Texas' tournament scene if this picks up because no one else that is worth their salt is going to ban something like this. Texas, the state that COULD have had some of the first players that can IC chain grab and beat the IC chain grab, will now be the state that loses to them due to inexperience.

Congrats.

I thought I might add... beating people who are clearly better than they are? What are you smoking? You win games, you're better. End of story. I could be super technical with Pichu in Melee all I want, but if you come in with Sheik and destroy me by chain grabbing, that makes you better. Just because I'm doing something special or different means nothing. Just because what you do is easy means nothing. It just means I picked the wrong path to improvement. Play the game you are given, and play the best you can. Don't give out freebies because people picked the wrong character. So Ness has trouble with Marth grabs him and mashes Z. Big whoop, sucks for Ness. ICs can infinite? Sucks for everyone else. They can deal with it, or we'll see ICs everywhere in tournament really soon. You ban it then; not before, but after. That's what good TOs do. Bad TOs cripple their tournaments with ignorant rules.

8. When you people respond. I ASK that you PLZ take it from my point of view and at least ATTEMPT to consider how it feels for people who get 3 and 4 stocked from ICG hen in reality they may have been the better player.

Looks like someone needs to learn to play against Ice Climbers and revise their strategy. Just because your friend's Snake is a beast playing Metaknight and G&W doesn't mean that he's going to be a beast playing Ice Climbers.

9. I will run my tournaments how i see fit. if you cant handle that......plz commit suicide.

The common trend with ban-happy TOs is this:

Step 1. They are ridiculed
Step 2. People suck it up and go to their tournaments anyway, hating the rules, because they want tournaments
Step 3. People complain at said tournament about how stupid the rule/s is/are.
Step 4. Someone says they are hosting a tournament without said rule
Step 5. People go to new tournament
Step 6. People don't have to deal with old TO anymore.
Step 7. Old TO is now a joke and a footnote.


Don't be that guy. Be the wise TO that tells people who scream "BAN THE CHAIN GRAB" to calm down, and look closely at those using the chain grab. "Well see, he lost to that guy. Why'd he lose to him and not you? Go ask him. He knows something you don't."

Actually, you should do that. Ask people that know something you don't.

 

[Xyro77]

i know about it and have escaped it before. if you UP+B right as dedede grabs u(and u are over 102%) u get out of it. its easier if he just runs out of space to grab you, of course he will f tilt you but its better than being grabed 40 more times. I have placed better than any samus in the USA(as far as i know) and i have beaten dedede as a part of that.



Edit: just saw your response overswarm. ill respond in the morning. good night guys.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Sorry Xryo, you just lost the game.

Overswarm is right on the money.

 

[petrie911]

To petrie: lucky for you i have 15 vids of sethlon winning majority on hylian then hylian busts out IC for ICG and wins the match....and even if i didnt have the vids. you KNOW this is happening all across america. tourney or not.

That's great. But I'm having a bit of trouble finding them on your youtube account. Could you link me to them? (specifically the ICs ones)

 

[Overswarm]

i know about it and have escaped it before. if you UP+B right as dedede grabs u(and u are over 102%) u get out of it. its easier if he just runs out of space to grab you, of course he will f tilt you but its better than being grabed 40 more times. I have placed better than any samus in the USA(as far as i know) and i have beaten dedede as a part of that.



Edit: just saw your response overswarm. ill respond in the morning. good night guys.

lol @ Xyro


Sir, the mere fact that you said "and u are over 102%" proves you are wrong off the bat.

Dedede's chain grab is set knockback. That means you do not, nor will you ever, move differently based on percentage. That means you could up+b at 0% if you could at all. I don't know how you picked that arbitrary decision, but stop trying to pull a fast one on us.

 

[Undrdog]

And you're wrong about the Dedede chaingrab. That stunned DI is always long enough to be grabbed.

 

[Mokai]

i responded to your post assuming u actually read some thing in this thread. If you did you would see there have been many posts where i do not respond too.

Yes, I've read most of the posts here. Going back to my original post here you can see that I actually agreed with you initially on the original banning of the chain grab; I actually supported your case. It's when I began to look at another thread and discovered some of your stances on other chaingrabs that your logic began to confuse me. I'm very much in the middle at the moment and I'm fairly objective to weighing both sides, but your general attitude towards me and other members are turning more people against your cause that would otherwise be willing to listen.

If you want to be heard calm down, take some deep breaths, speak calmly and don't get your blood boiled by others who throw insults at you. Just assuming that I asked you a question and saying I'm a perfect example why you don't like 08 members is a prime example of how not to behave.

But nevermind that; I'm just an 08 member. It's not like I matter.

 

[BarDulL]

It sounds like there has only been one tournament where the Ice Climber's CG has proven to be the prominent factor attributing to a player's success.

Being that there has only been one tournament where this has happened, it should be largely evident that banning said tactic without further testing would clearly be treading on the grounds of prematurity.

Xyro, allowing the players of the tournament scene to try beating the Ice Climber's CG would be most beneficial to the community. If the technique proves to be the most dominant and consistent winning strategy for multiple tournaments to come, then that will be sufficient-enough evidence supporting what is, currently, mere conjecture (Ice Climber's CG is a "broken" and an unbeatable tactic). I'm sure the SBR, as well as the entirety of the competitive smash community, will support your claims fully once we've seen the results.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Sir, the mere fact that you said "and u are over 102%" proves you are wrong off the bat.

Dedede's chain grab is set knockback. That means you do not, nor will you ever, move differently based on percentage. That means you could up+b at 0% if you could at all. I don't know how you picked that arbitrary decision, but stop trying to pull a fast one on us.

Well, thats not exactly true. For some odd reason, D3's infinite CG does stale when he uses it on Samus, Mario, and Luigi. But my friend was the one that discovered if you throw a punch in during the grab before doing the down throw then it actually does infinite.

i know about it and have escaped it before. if you UP+B right as dedede grabs u(and u are over 102%) u get out of it. its easier if he just runs out of space to grab you, of course he will f tilt you but its better than being grabed 40 more times. I have placed better than any samus in the USA(as far as i know) and i have beaten dedede as a part of that.

Uh... D3's infinite CG does NOT require him to move forward. He stands in place. He can infinite CG without even moving from where he initially grabbed you (well, technically he has to move slightly forward for Bowser). Only 5 characters in the game suffer from that infinite CG, and it sucks to get hit by it because there is nothing you can do about it. Whatever D3 you were playing must have absolutely sucked at the infinite CG, since you should NOT be able to escape it.

You know what? Why am I explaining this? Here is the video my friend made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UyrHXK36A
Yeah, after he made that I forgot when I was playing him and I used DK against his D3. It... wasn't pretty.

 

[Mr.C]

Dedede's chain grab is set knockback. That means you do not, nor will you ever, move differently based on percentage. That means you could up+b at 0% if you could at all. I don't know how you picked that arbitrary decision, but stop trying to pull a fast one on us.

And you're wrong about the Dedede chaingrab. That stunned DI is always long enough to be grabbed.

Like the above poster said when trying to ICG Mario, Samus, and Luigi you have to throw in a punch or two to remove the stale move negation or you will only be able to get five throws off, this usually only becomes a "ICG" at higher percents when your opponent can't break your grabs fast enough.

It's also pretty silly to compare DDD's ICG to Icy's when it can only work on a total of five characters, while Icy's ICG is on every character in the game if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Hylian]

I am on my wii, so I won't post much now, but I want to adress a few things.

You called Sethlon the best in texas. Why? I have knocked Sethlon out of tournament the past two tournaments in Texas that we both attended. I am 3-2 in sets against him. He has won one tournament that had 30ish participants. I won the most recent which had 80+ participants. By tournament wins, T-rex has the most alongside Mr.3000. But recently, they have been getting lower places. 9th even. I have never placed below 7th in any brawl tournament.

I don't even think I am better then Sethlon. I think we are pretty much dead even in skill. Sethlon is a very skilled and smart player.

Also, I placed 5th at the first Houston Tournament going almost all Samus, with a little GW. Have you even broke top 10?

And please. Post the videos of me vs Sethlon. All 15 of them. Then we can see how you are bad at math, because I only used ICs a total of 3-4 matches in them. I beat Sethlon going almost ALL GW. Not ICs. Please explain to me how that is Sethlon winning the majority? I have beaten sethlon with GW way more then ICs.


Sorry this post was so disorganised. I am posting from my wii =/.

 

[Mr.C]

I **** everyone.

GAME OVA

 

[Waddle]

I am on my wii, so I won't post much now, but I want to adress a few things.

You called Sethlon the best in texas. Why? I have knocked Sethlon out of tournament the past two tournaments in Texas that we both attended. I am 3-2 in sets against him. He has won one tournament that had 30ish participants. I won the most recent which had 80+ participants. By tournament wins, T-rex has the most alongside Mr.3000. But recently, they have been getting lower places. 9th even. I have never placed below 7th in any brawl tournament.

I don't even think I am better then Sethlon. I think we are pretty much dead even in skill. Sethlon is a very skilled and smart player.

Also, I placed 5th at the first Houston Tournament going almost all Samus, with a little GW. Have you even broke top 10?

And please. Post the videos of me vs Sethlon. All 15 of them. Then we can see how you are bad at math, because I only used ICs a total of 3-4 matches in them. I beat Sethlon going almost ALL GW. Not ICs. Please explain to me how that is Sethlon winning the majority? I have beaten sethlon with GW way more then ICs.


Sorry this post was so disorganised. I am posting from my wii =/.

Leave Sethlon outta this. This fool is 2 good.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Wow...this is srcubness. You know what? This is stupid. =/ I'm not a big fan of infinites but ICs can't infinite every single brawl character right?

And DDD infinite is weird. o.o; You have to time it just right, it works best with a wall though. But DDD can't infinite everyone. Plus the ICs infinite need actual skill and de-synch. You can't just do it. =/

I think TGM is being a bit pre-mature. Unless it starts to win tourneys then....You can ban it, but I see no evidence in that,

This is banning at least one Ice Climber. Wtf? Ban Pokemon Trainer and Zelda because they use multiple characters.

This is stupid.

 

[S2]

I said it in another topic but...

You don't ban something over what its theoretical impact might be. Unless IC's start dominating every tournament due to chaingrabs and stifle the rest of the game's competitiveness... then there is really no point in discussing whether it should be potentially banned.

Currently, it's not making a significant impct on the tournament scene. So why does it even need to be banned? Because theoreticaly it could get out of hand?

Overswarm said it best in his very long post. Wobbling was a hugely discussed infinite in Melee, not only did it not make the game devolve into IC dittos only, but good IC players like Wobbles and Chudat still did well despite the techniques banning (in some venues).

Unless IC infinites are dominating touranments and ruining competition, there's no real point in banning anything. Things shouldn't get banned unless they are game ruining and so far, this hasn't proved to be that way.

 

[DarkKnight077]

^^
I agree with the post above. There are some infinites in some fighting games and you never see them getting banned. Unless the ICs start to win tournaments everywhere and not just in Texas you have a large problem otherwise it's nothing.

If you want to ban something there is needed process that needs to put in place.

Well the ICs infinite needs de-sync to work and that's not actually easy to pull off. And the ICs actually take skill to de-sync.

So why are you punishing actual META-GAME?

BECAUSE YOU WANT YOUR SCRUBS TO WIN OR WHAT?

 

[Hylian]

Leave Sethlon outta this. This fool is 2 good.

I <3 Sethlon. He is way too good. He is also my teammate .

I only brought him up, because TGM said I only beat him because I "Busted out the Climbers", which is not true at all.

 

[mlgc4]

so,if you play smart this won't effect the match much.
=]

 

[Smasher89]

Brawl is a game of infinite combos, what make one infinite more imbalanced then an other, both should be 0-KO in theory. Some infinites are harder then others and IC's is defeneatly one of the ones that´s harder then like the shine "infinite" against a wall, or just laserlocking...

People haven´t really practised this game nearly as much as melee, so people haven´t nearly the same skill in avoiding grabs, and landing/manipulating them in, IC´s grab "infinite" is just one of the ways people use this for an advantage, that the metagame is new so people don´t know the matchup/what they should counterpick.
I know of snakeplayers becoming totally ruined because of falcos dthrow> dairspike chain and that is much more rewarding and resulting in low% KO's...

 

[da K.I.D.]

please apologize to the ppl you've offended

please stop being so close-minded and hard headed

please put up any videos that you have or know of, brawl or melee, that had a less talented person playing iceclimbers and beating a more skilled person SOLELY because of chain-grabbing

please explain how you came to this desicion, seeing as the person that influenced you the most to make this decision DOESNT EVEN MAIN THE ICE CLIMBERS

DDD has a chain grab that is simple and infinite on 5 characrers d-throw, repeat until bored, f-throw. its the same every single time no matter the character or the DI
the IC ICG has to be memorised differently not only for every different character, but for just about every single damage percentage, the moveset needed to infinite, is different depending on their damage every time. lets say that only 10 chars. were viable for tourneys, and that the CG had to be performed differently for every 10 of damage. (10-19, 20-29, ect.) that would make a total of 100 option that the player had to be thinking about at all times while playing the game. now i was being generous, theres almost an infinite number of variants that have to be taken into consideration when even attempting this move, it makes no sence to ban something that difficult, the ppl that can do this efficiently should be rewarded and not punished.

also if you continue to post without taking the opinions of others into consideration. i will respond by quoting overswarms wall of text to you.

 

[Sike119]

Don't think banning a player is ok, Xyro, it's completely ********. This is the first step to destroying Brawl tourneys. Deal with it, characters weren't made to be banned.

 

[Mokai]

Don't think banning a player is ok, Xyro, it's completely ********. This is the first step to destroying Brawl tourneys. Deal with it, characters weren't made to be banned.

He didn't ban a character. He banned a technique.

Some quick thoughts on the matter -

Ultimately, if it's Xyro's tournament it's Xyro's choice. We don't own Brawl, we can't tell someone what they can and can't do. Hell, if someone wants to make a tournament in which Mario is the only selectable character and his Forward B is the only legal move allowed than what right of it is ours to stop them? If people like those sort of rules than great; let 'em sign up and enter. If not, nobody's forcing you at gunpoint to attend.

I'd say this would be an excellent opportunity for another Texas-based player to start organizing tournaments of his own. Granted the brawling scene there will become divided, but if people prefer your rules over Xyro's than they're bound to begin attending yours instead. If people are as hurt and outraged as some of you make it sound, you'll eventually take charge of the scene and Xyro will be left with those who like his rules.

Yelling at Xyro, calling him stupid, and slinging insults simply isn't the answer. He has a right to host his tournaments by his rules, and I would rather that be the policy of tournament holders everywhere rather then follow a set of rules provided to them without any understanding why they are what they are.

If there's any mods out there floating around, you may just wish to close this. It'll only keep repeating in circles with no resolution and only more flared tempers.