Church plans Quran-burning event on 9/11

[Mota]

Hasn't this been called off?

Although I still agree burning Qurans will just cause more conflict. Any religion would be pretty outraged if one of their symbols of faith was mass burned...

 

[Pluvia]

No it's "on hold".

(Click) This explains everything.

 

[Pikaville]

This is literally the worst idea in history.

What the **** man.

This is blatant pointless antagonization.

You'd also be arrested on the spot for this in Ireland, no matter who you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law#Ireland

 

[1048576]

Yeah, Ireland sucks cause its a theocracy.

 

[1048576]

I think a lot of you are seriously misinformed about both Islam and the causes of and solutions to terrorism. There are a few very (conceptually) simple ways to solve terrorism, but none of them involve antagonizing terrorists.

edit: I'll even give you a hint. Fixing terrorism has more to do with things like GDP per capita and internet access than it does with religion or ideology.

Wait, what. Poor people are terrorists? Sounds like something CK would say :/

 

[Thino]

I guess at this stage there's not much left except hoping he does get some sign of God , because on both sides , there are people not thinking logically as already mentioned in this thread

there are better ways to fight terrorism than butting on them head on with violence .

Wait, what. Poor people are terrorists? Sounds like something CK would say :/

more likely than you seem to think it is , the big heads of terrorist organizations are sitting in a cozy armchair in their palace , that sometimes may even happen to be in United States , smoking their 10 inches cigars.

the kind of people that are ordered around by these guys , do terrorist attacks , suicide bombings , and such are the poor people that have no access to education and such that for $1 or some food is easy to convince that "Islam is the only good religion , the rest are infidels , you'll go straight to Heaven if you blow yourself up serving our cause" and that have no other alternative but to accept that

the less poor people there is , the less terrorists there will be.

thats why its nothing related to Islam since you can replace that word in quotes by Christianism , and it would produce the exact same effect.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Wait, what. Poor people are terrorists? Sounds like something CK would say :/

He didn't say all poor people are terrorists. It's a large factor, though. just as the same way as being poor or growing up in poverty will more often lead to violent crime and gang activity.

 

[GreenKirby]

You don't see such extremism and terror from educated Muslims (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, US Muslims),

LOL

Wait, what. Poor people are terrorists? Sounds like something CK would say :/

No. But when you don't have enough money to feed your family let alone never receiving a decent education, you'll turn to desperate measures. Even if the guy who gave you the measure is a rich blowhard looking out for his own hide and not really giving a **** about you.

Hey, it worked for the American Revolution, the Confederacy during the Civil War, the rise of the Soviet Union, and the American two party system.

 

[theeboredone]

LOL

Rather than laughing at my post, care to enlighten me with some information or news sources that I am uninformed about? You don't make yourself look much better by not explaining yourself.

 

[~N9NE~]

It seems as though you're doing a balancing act, as though you have to mention the oppression of non-Muslims while talking about Muslim rights.

I've already stated I'm here to address Islamic doctrine and how it influences Islamic society. I was just trying to establish a sense of perspective. You were criticising the xenophobia you believe Americans are exhibiting. Xenophobia which you suggest arises from irrationality. On the same note you should acknowledge the xenophobic nature of Islamic society and how it derives directly from Islamic doctrine.

It's not about the physical burning of the book, it's the motive behind the burning.

No it is the burning. The Qur'an is believed to be the literal Word of Allah, front to back. That's why we are seeing such a response.

I think a lot of you are seriously misinformed about both Islam and the causes of and solutions to terrorism.

Please inform me and show me where I've gone wrong. I want to make sure I'm properly informed.

edit: I'll even give you a hint. Fixing terrorism has more to do with things like GDP per capita and internet access than it does with religion or ideology.

So how do we explain branches of Islamic terrorism within the US and Europe?

If you attribute it to fundamentalist extremism please inform me where and how they have inaccurately interpreted the Qur'an, Hadiths and Sirahs.

Oh, while we're at it, why not go back in history and look at how Christians stated Manifest Destiny was God's will? Or how about the treatment of African Americans as slaves since they were lesser than the white man? Ever heard of the KKK?

You don't see such extremism and terror from educated Muslims (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, US Muslims), but it resides more in the poor countries. Go to any of these countries and you'll see several homeless or poor Muslims begging on the streets for money or a job. Enter Al Qaeda that offer them such things along with the basis of their own radical view on the religion, and a terrorist is easily born. It's simple brainwashing, and they are using religion as a means to continue their gains.

I'm not going to go tit for tat about what Christians and Muslims have done in the past but you can not hold up Saudi Arabia and Egypt as moral leaders within the Islamic world.

How is it brainwashing by something other than religion when all their beliefs and ideals are directly from the Qur'an, Hadiths and Sirahs?

the less poor people there is , the less terrorists there will be.

The less people adhere to Muhammad's teachings advocating violence and deeming Non Muslims inferior, then and only then will there be less terrorists.

thats why its nothing related to Islam since you can replace that word in quotes by Christianism , and it would produce the exact same effect.

When Muslims use violence or act with hostility towards Non Muslims, they act in complete accordance with Muhammad's teachings. To say it's ''nothing related to Islam'' is inaccurate.

 

[Pluvia]

Just to mention here people:

Islamic Fundamentalism is actually quite a recent thing.

 

[Thino]

The less people adhere to Muhammad's teachings advocating violence and deeming Non Muslims inferior, then and only then will there be less terrorists.

that is assuming terrorism only come from people that adhere to Muhammad's teaching , advocating violence and deeming Non Muslims inferior

When Muslims use violence or act with hostility towards Non Muslims, they act in complete accordance with Muhammad's teachings. To say it's ''nothing related to Islam'' is inaccurate.

that is an entirely other debate and I don't really want to digress here , it has to do with Muhammad's teaching or just Quran ,to say it bluntly , being ambiguous enough to be interpreted in many different ways.

so I consider saying "in complete accordance to Muhammad's teaching" to be the inaccurate part

 

[~N9NE~]

Just to mention here people:

Islamic Fundamentalism is actually quite a recent thing.

Thanks for posting, I'll give everything they linked a read tomorrow. But just off the top of my head, the 1950s is a poor marker when we consider the genocides committed by the Ottoman Empire against Assyrians, Armenians and Greeks around the First World War.

Of course we can't forget Muhammad himself spread Islam by warring with the indigenous Arab pagan Quraysh tribe and the Jewish Quynuqa, Qurayzah and Nadir tribes of Arabia and participating in massacres himself.

that is assuming terrorism only come from people that adhere to Muhammad's teaching , advocating violence and deeming Non Muslims inferior

Naturally being on topic, I'm referring to terrorism within Islam.

that is an entirely other debate and I don't really want to digress here , it has to do with Muhammad's teaching or just Quran ,to say it bluntly , being ambiguous enough to be interpreted in many different ways.

so I consider saying "in complete accordance to Muhammad's teaching" to be the inaccurate part

I'll highlight my post in another thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11090306#post11090306

If I've made any inaccuracies please inform me so I know where I've gone wrong concerning Muhammad's teaching. If you don't wish to derail this thread, even though I think it's relevant, please don't hesitate to PM me.

 

[Namaste]

The quaran does not command it's followers to kill infidels, any quote that says as much is taken out of context, generally from an event where Allah is specifically telling Muhammed what to do to an army of pagans that are fighting him (and in the quaran it's they who broke the peace).

 

[El Nino]

You were criticising the xenophobia you believe Americans are exhibiting. Xenophobia which you suggest arises from irrationality. On the same note you should acknowledge the xenophobic nature of Islamic society and how it derives directly from Islamic doctrine.

I criticize American xenophobia because I am an American, living in the U.S. I hesitate to make assumptions on other societies; I would need more secondary sources, and I haven't researched that particular topic.

If you find Islamic society xenophobic, I can only let that comment stand. I can't agree or disagree with you.

The topic of this thread, however, is (or was) a planned event in the U.S., an event planned by an American. That's why I criticized him and commented on American xenophobia as a whole.

 

[5ive]

The quaran does not command it's followers to kill infidels, any quote that says as much is taken out of context, generally from an event where Allah is specifically telling Muhammed what to do to an army of pagans that are fighting him (and in the quaran it's they who broke the peace).

I really dislike Quran/Bible/etc apologists.

If it says it, it says it. Why does that God have to be so hidden about his messages, as so much to confuse everyone? Why not just spread his message clearly? All I know is the Quran says things like this (don't worry, the Quran isn't alone ),

".... And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful...(2:190-193)."

Good thing most Muslims have societal based morals that allow them to...not practise what this book says? In this case, apologists are alright, they're smarter than the illogical people.

In the end, it's the fight against irrationality, not Islam.

 

[BSP]

So supposedly, the dude that started this is changing his mind.

I sure hope so, so we can avoid some giant fiasco that doesn't need to happen at all.

 

[Thino]

well hopefully this debate comes to an end today , possibly without burning any Quran anywhere ( anywhere where media can see it because thats when it matters obviously)

Naturally being on topic, I'm referring to terrorism within Islam.

I was talking about terrorism in general , but even in case just terrorism within Islam your statement is still arguable

I'll highlight my post in another thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11090306#post11090306

If I've made any inaccuracies please inform me so I know where I've gone wrong concerning Muhammad's teaching. If you don't wish to derail this thread, even though I think it's relevant, please don't hesitate to PM me.

alright since you believe its related , I'll sum up my opinion about it here:

first off , I'm atheist

In my opinion when talking about anything that has to do with the scriptures that are in any of the Holy Books of the 3 main monotheists religions , there are too many factors that make them ambiguous , leaving the debate of their divine origins aside :

-losses from original language translation
-scribes errors
-human mistakes in general
-alterations ( voluntarily or not )
-loss/change of sense from translation in other languages
-context
-and last but not least , interpretations

from all that, assuming their divine origins are true , I believe none of theists has an objective idea of what is called the Word of God in each of these religions , and that all of them act , judge and interpret how they want to , that includes taking them literally too.

from that point , I believe its too easy to make either of those religions look good or bad.

therefore I believe your statement starts being inaccurate from the very moment you start quoting a verse from the Quran

 

[Namaste]

I really dislike Quran/Bible/etc apologists.

If it says it, it says it. Why does that God have to be so hidden about his messages, as so much to confuse everyone? Why not just spread his message clearly? All I know is the Quran says things like this (don't worry, the Quran isn't alone ),

".... And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful...(2:190-193)."

Good thing most Muslims have societal based morals that allow them to...not practise what this book says? In this case, apologists are alright, they're smarter than the illogical people.

In the end, it's the fight against irrationality, not Islam.

Well like I said, that's taken out of context. The full verse is this

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.



002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.



002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful



002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

It's actually just saying "Fight those who fight against you/God, but don't do it if they stop and don't get taken away". Not to say the Quran has no bad verses, it obviously does (slavery, women's rights and so forth), but it doesn't say "kill infidels".

Also, notice the law clearly stating "do not fight in the holy mosques". Lol terrorists, nice job

edit: Just saw on the news that the pastor showed up in NYC today. Maybe he's going to suicide bomb the community center

 

[Lore]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning
So, apparently he has called it off.

This event and the ground zero mosque "debate" have made me realize that I'm surrounded by idiots down here in southern GA.

Yesterday at school, we had a class argument about both topics. It didn't go so well because all the other side (pretty much everyone except for myself and four people) would say is that Obama is a muslim and shouldn't be president because of his reactions to this. :/

It's bad when you actually look up sources and put them on the tv (the teacher's comp is connected to the tv), but everyone then calls you an idiot and an "obama-lover" for "not seeing the truth."

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Georgia is like Alabama-if you're smart, get the hell out of there. People are ******** there.

 

[Jim Morrison]

obama is such a muslim

 

[Ballistics]

This story hurts my feelings and my intelligence because muslims were not responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Please end your ignorance.

http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Loose Change

 

[freeman123]

Georgia is like Alabama-if you're smart, get the hell out of there. People are ******** there.

I actually live in Georgia. We have our share of idiots, but I think that there are a lot of reasonable people here. Also, wasn't this event taking place in Florida? What's Georgia got to do with anything?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I actually live in Georgia. We have our share of idiots, but I think that there are a lot of reasonable people here. Also, wasn't this event taking place in Florida? What's Georgia got to do with anything?

COME TO NEW ENGLAND

we're sane here

I just have major bias against the south. Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Texas especially.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I live in Florida. it sucks big time. The further North you go in Florida, the more it becomes like the stereotypical South.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

didn't read some of the earlier posts, ignore this.

 

[RATED]

that guy is ********... he needs to respect others "beliefs"

I am not into religion( I am not atheist) but I dislike the idea of following another idea that probably will not do something until " I die and I go to some heaven or stuff" I am dead... what else can happen.

Sometimes I wish I was a little of a believer on any religion but the though of the atrocities caused by religions( almost every religion has them) makes me not.

I still respect religious people since they can believe in something that have so much "meaning" and defending and practicing it.

 

[pickle962]

obama is such a muslim

Correction: obama IS a muslim....

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

obama is such a muslim

Just a word of mention. I saw your sig. If you're trolling, I recommend that you stop now, because this is blurring the line between "obvious troll" and "genuinely stupid person". Make that "ridiculously stupid person". If you really are that stupid... ugh.

 

[Luigitoilet]

No, Santo is just "really obvious troll". I think he's new at it.

 

[BBQTV]

your allowed to burn stuff in protest are you not?

 

[Thino]

your allowed to burn stuff in protest are you not?

of course , but thats not the point here.

 

[BBQTV]

if we can burn their book and they can build their thing then why are we having problems?

 

[Thino]

if we can burn their book and they can build their thing then why are we having problems?

because even though Americans can burn their book , it would create anti-American behavior that would put American troops and Americans in general that are in countries that are in majority run by radical/terrorist muslims in danger

along with making more muslims join Al Qaeda and other terrorist stuff


thats why we having problems

same effects goes for moving the thing elsewhere

 

[Luigitoilet]

Because while it's legal to do those things, that doesn't make it a good idea. It's needlessly inflammatory and causes nothing but more drama.

 

[GreenKirby]

your allowed to burn stuff in protest are you not?

And we're allowed to call them stupid if they go along with it.

Contrary to popular belief, freedom of speech doesn't mean you're protected from any possible negative consequences of your outcome.

 

[BBQTV]

Because while it's legal to do those things, that doesn't make it a good idea. It's needlessly inflammatory and causes nothing but more drama.

your anti american?

palin said something just like that


"just because they can build it does it mean we should?"

remeber that?


if it's legal it's ok just like it's ok to build the mosque thing

 

[Ballistics]

So far everyone is operating under the assumption that Muslim Extremists were behind the destruction of the Twin Towers, World Trade Center Building 7, the Pentagon, and the crash of Flight 93 in Shanksville. The main arguments of the debate are about whether or not it is morally, legally, and ethically proper for an American to express his feelings about what he perceives is the cause for the loss of life on September 11th. This is an easy question to answer, of course he has the right to express his feelings, however, if you are going to broadcast your feelings to the whole nation, perhaps it would be wise to have your facts straight.

I will tell you all in good conscience that the FBI, CIA, and other intelligence agencies in the Department of Homeland Security never had direct physical evidence linking the events on 9/11 to Usama bin Laden. The only type of evidence the CIA was able to procur for the Bush Administration to be able to invade Afghanistan, was a video of Usama bin Laden in which he takes credit for the attacks. However, this tape was found by the CIA, the man in the film does not resemble Usama bin Laden, and Usama bin Laden in all other interviews and letters denies any involvement in the attacks. Any surfacing videos after this where Usama bin Laden praises the attacks were all found by the CIA.

So while I believe that it is everyone's inalienable right to protest, please don't look like a fool and protest the wrong things. Protest the original 9/11 commission and call for a reinvestigation of 9/11 by impartial authorities and with independent funding from Congress.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/1...nladen.denial/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6YgmhBvwCo
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

 

[GreenKirby]

your anti american?

palin said something just like that


"just because they can build it does it mean we should?"

remeber that?


if it's legal it's ok just like it's ok to build the mosque thing

Two things wrong with your 'brillant' statement:

1) I didn't realize that burning a holy text was primarily going to happen to bring people of different faiths together like the G0 mosque (especially considering it's neither a mosque nor on G0)

2) Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. That's appealing to law, which is a fallacy. By your logic, sodomy is morally wrong because it's illegal in Texas.