Church plans Quran-burning event on 9/11

[Mr.Freeman]

So far everyone is operating under the assumption that Muslim Extremists were behind the destruction of the Twin Towers, World Trade Center Building 7, the Pentagon, and the crash of Flight 93 in Shanksville. The main arguments of the debate are about whether or not it is morally, legally, and ethically proper for an American to express his feelings about what he perceives is the cause for the loss of life on September 11th. This is an easy question to answer, of course he has the right to express his feelings, however, if you are going to broadcast your feelings to the whole nation, perhaps it would be wise to have your facts straight.

I will tell you all in good conscience that the FBI, CIA, and other intelligence agencies in the Department of Homeland Security never had direct physical evidence linking the events on 9/11 to Usama bin Laden. The only type of evidence the CIA was able to procur for the Bush Administration to be able to invade Afghanistan, was a video of Usama bin Laden in which he takes credit for the attacks. However, this tape was found by the CIA, the man in the film does not resemble Usama bin Laden, and Usama bin Laden in all other interviews and letters denies any involvement in the attacks. Any surfacing videos after this where Usama bin Laden praises the attacks were all found by the CIA.

So while I believe that it is everyone's inalienable right to protest, please don't look like a fool and protest the wrong things. Protest the original 9/11 commission and call for a reinvestigation of 9/11 by impartial authorities and with independent funding from Congress.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/1...nladen.denial/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6YgmhBvwCo
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

How many freaking times are you going to bring this up? Its off-topic and has nothing to do with the Quran burning.

 

[1048576]

Constructive: good
Destructive: bad

I guess we all need to be reminded of things sometimes.

 

[Ballistics]

How many freaking times are you going to bring this up? Its off-topic and has nothing to do with the Quran burning.

Please inform yourself of the real issues behind this debate. 6 of the supposed Hijackers are still alive and claim to have no idea why they were put on the FBI's list. If the people listed under the FBI created database known as "Al Qaeda" which translates to "the base" in Arabic was never wrongfully accused of this atrocity, then noone would be wanting to burn a Quran. Its ignorant people like yourself that fuel this lie and cause misdirected hate.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#docid=-4617650616903609314

Watch this video given by an ARCHITECT who is the head of the 1,000 ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS for the 9/11 truth and then tell me again that you believe "the Base" still blew up the WTC.

O yea I forgot.... Part of living in ignorance means that you give up looking for more information and cling to your story that you think makes sense because thats what your teacher and your mom told you. So you probably won't watch it anyway and call me a conspiracy theorist as if that means anything. Look at the evidence Mr. Freeman.

 

[1048576]

Occam's Razor.

Of course it's possible that the US govt. was competent for once and blew up its own building without anyone saying anything. It's also possible that Hitler accidentally that book and those jews. Usually though, the simplest explanation is the correct one. Angry Muslims were angry. Now can you please move on from this nonsense.

 

[Ballistics]

Occam's Razor.

Of course it's possible that the US govt. was competent for once and blew up its own building without anyone saying anything. It's also possible that Hitler accidentally that book and those jews. Usually though, the simplest explanation is the correct one. Angry Muslims were angry. Now can you please move on from this nonsense.

So you're basing the invasion of two countries and the loss of life on the scale of millions, on Occam's Razor? See in science we need this stuff called evidence , maybe you've heard of it?

 

[SkylerOcon]

Uh, no, he's basing it on the logical assumption that there's no way everybody in the operation would keep quiet. If they somehow managed to kill everybody that would talk, they would have killed anybody who figured it out before they could spread their ideas to the masses - before you say it, NO, normal people to not jump to the conclusion that everything is a conspiracy and that 9/11 was a false flag operation. If nobody were to have brought it up, I guarantee you, nothing would have seemed amiss.

 

[Geist]

Aw, this thread's degenerated into arguments about conspiracy theories?
Well derp my berp, if you honestly think the government is intelligent enough to pull off the superplan of the century when the man in charge couldn't string together sentences, the more power to you.

By the way, I came in here to see if anyone had news links of the aftermath of this, someone told me there were still some scattered burnings but I can't find information on it.

 

[Glöwworm]

ballistics, do you believe in reptilian overlords?

 

[Ballistics]

Uh, no, he's basing it on the logical assumption that there's no way everybody in the operation would keep quiet. If they somehow managed to kill everybody that would talk, they would have killed anybody who figured it out before they could spread their ideas to the masses - before you say it, NO, normal people to not jump to the conclusion that everything is a conspiracy and that 9/11 was a false flag operation. If nobody were to have brought it up, I guarantee you, nothing would have seemed amiss.

I'm sorry, an assumption is not enough to invade countries, please see evidence which is what is important in scientific theory.

ballistics, do you believe in reptilian overlords?

LOL... no. Show me some evidence and maybe I will.

 

[OizenX]

Its not even worth doing, Quran's are easy to come by so its not like the world is losing anything.

but the people who get butthurt about it would be too annoying.

and to my knowledge they didn't do it.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I'm sorry, an assumption is not enough to invade countries, please see evidence which is what is important in scientific theory.



LOL... no. Show me some evidence and maybe I will.

I don't really feel like watching a two hour video, that I think I already watched when I was 12 (and that I stopped believing when I was 13). You can go ahead and recap it for me, though

 

[Ballistics]

I don't really feel like watching a two hour video, that I think I already watched when I was 12 (and that I stopped believing when I was 13). You can go ahead and recap it for me, though

Got AIM? =D

 

[1048576]

So you're basing the invasion of two countries and the loss of life on the scale of millions, on Occam's Razor? See in science we need this stuff called evidence , maybe you've heard of it?

No dude, reread.

Science also has something called falsifiability. What, specifically would have to happen, that could be designed in an experiment, that would convince you that you're wrong? If the answer is: nothing, then you can never have evidence for your position.

 

[Ballistics]

No dude, reread.

Science also has something called falsifiability. What, specifically would have to happen, that could be designed in an experiment, that would convince you that you're wrong? If the answer is: nothing, then you can never have evidence for your position.

I'm not following your logic. There is evidence to support controlled demolition, there is no evidence to support a gravity driven collapse. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm saying there is no way muslims in caves had access to patented thermate, a type of nanothermite found on the ground zero site and in the dust. All the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth want is an independent investigation with subpoena power.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Stop replying to Ballistics, people.

 

[Ballistics]

Your willingness for ignorance astounds me Luigitoilet, please do not feed the lie.

 

[~N9NE~]

Were the attacks on London, Madrid, Bali and several others part of a conspiracy too?

 

[Ballistics]

Were the attacks on London, Madrid, Bali and several others part of a conspiracy too?

I am only concerned with the 3,000 Americans that were killed in the WTC and the overwhelming evidence of controlled demolition, I am not speculating as to who caused the controlled demolition, it could have been anybody. That is the job of the independent investigation that so many people are calling for. If other lives were lost in other countries then they should also request independent investigations if they haven't done so already.

Just because you challenge the theory immediately adopted by the Bush administration does not make you a conspiracy theorist.

 

[BBQTV]

Two things wrong with your 'brillant' statement:

1) I didn't realize that burning a holy text was primarily going to happen to bring people of different faiths together like the G0 mosque (especially considering it's neither a mosque nor on G0)

2) Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. That's appealing to law, which is a fallacy. By your logic, sodomy is morally wrong because it's illegal in Texas.

how many states is it legal to burn things in protest?

their is nothing wrong with burning stuff in protest



a youtuber called the amazing atheist burned in a video 3 books

the quran, the bible and some book of evolution or something with being an atheist


why was this not on the news? the florida guy didn't burn anything and this guy did

 

[Mr.Freeman]

It was a mass burning, BBQ, he was demanding that people should join him. If there's an intolerant and unsreasonable person trying to get people to do it, we should stop it.

Christ, did you even read about this? Does the whole 9/11, World Trade center being destroyed ring a bell?

Its not even worth doing, Quran's are easy to come by so its not like the world is losing anything.

but the people who get butthurt about it would be too annoying.

and to my knowledge they didn't do it.

No, he didn't. But he said it himself he doesn't regret trying.

You don't seem aware about WHY he was trying to burn them in the first place either.

 

[Thino]

how many states is it legal to burn things in protest?

their is nothing wrong with burning stuff in protest

stop seeing only legislation to judge if something is right or wrong

a youtuber called the amazing atheist burned in a video 3 books

the quran, the bible and some book of evolution or something with being an atheist


why was this not on the news? the florida guy didn't burn anything and this guy did

because of media of course

how many views did that vid have? if you upload a random vid about you burning a Quran if its not on a channel that is known and that only a handful of people know about it , it wont have the same effect

the pastor did his best to have that event he was planning to do HEAVILY advertised so that the whole world knows about it , maybe he wasnt even planning to burn the Quran in first place and was just grabbing attention over him , maybe he even made some money over this

 

[Crimson King]

I am only concerned with the 3,000 Americans that were killed in the WTC and the overwhelming evidence of controlled demolition, I am not speculating as to who caused the controlled demolition, it could have been anybody. That is the job of the independent investigation that so many people are calling for. If other lives were lost in other countries then they should also request independent investigations if they haven't done so already.

Just because you challenge the theory immediately adopted by the Bush administration does not make you a conspiracy theorist.

Because you don't have a solid answer that fits into your theory? Seriously, this isn't the topic for it. As I've said, take it to the DH.

 

[Namaste]

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm saying there is no way muslims in caves had access to patented thermate, a

Maybe you should do your own research. Al'Quida has been buying and using soviet weaponry for years. The terrorist camps are straight up boot camps, they learn how to correctly use and repair weaponry, how to resist torture/interrogation, how to make bombs out of everyday objects, and how to use the high grade military weaponry they have. They're not cave men

edit: Also you can say "i have 1,000 architects and engineers that don't believe the story", that's cool. I got several million more who actually have degrees in civil engineering that say "Bull****, you don't know what you're talking about". The 9/11 truth movement has been put to rest a long, long time ago.

 

[OizenX]

It was a mass burning, BBQ, he was demanding that people should join him. If there's an intolerant and unsreasonable person trying to get people to do it, we should stop it.

Christ, did you even read about this? Does the whole 9/11, World Trade center being destroyed ring a bell?



No, he didn't. But he said it himself he doesn't regret trying.

You don't seem aware about WHY he was trying to burn them in the first place either.

Of course I know why he wants to burn them. Qurans make great kindle for camp fires.

 

[Ballistics]

Maybe you should do your own research. Al'Quida has been buying and using soviet weaponry for years. The terrorist camps are straight up boot camps, they learn how to correctly use and repair weaponry, how to resist torture/interrogation, how to make bombs out of everyday objects, and how to use the high grade military weaponry they have. They're not cave men

edit: Also you can say "i have 1,000 architects and engineers that don't believe the story", that's cool. I got several million more who actually have degrees in civil engineering that say "Bull****, you don't know what you're talking about". The 9/11 truth movement has been put to rest a long, long time ago.

Actually we created the group known as Al-Qaeda
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20907

I hope your joking with that edit.

 

[Luigitoilet]

HI I'M A TRUTHER

Because you don't have a solid answer that fits into your theory? Seriously, this isn't the topic for it. As I've said, take it to the DH.

If you bring it up in here again I'm gonna start infracting.

 

[hemlock]

I burned a Quran, I don't see what the big deal is.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8jlw7vt8r1qzpqudo1_500.jpg

 

[Ballistics]

I burned a Quran, I don't see what the big deal is.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8jlw7vt8r1qzpqudo1_500.jpg

LoL simply amazing

 

[BBQTV]

stop seeing only legislation to judge if something is right or wrong

because of media of course

how many views did that vid have? if you upload a random vid about you burning a Quran if its not on a channel that is known and that only a handful of people know about it , it wont have the same effect

the pastor did his best to have that event he was planning to do HEAVILY advertised so that the whole world knows about it , maybe he wasnt even planning to burn the Quran in first place and was just grabbing attention over him , maybe he even made some money over this

that guy is well known

try looking for it i cant go on youtube in school


why is it so wrong to protest something anyway?


and i dont have any problems with them building their thing just so you know because they have a right to build their thing just like we have a right to burn the quran

 

[Evil Eye]

and i dont have any problems with them building their thing just so you know because they have a right to build their thing just like we have a right to burn the quran

Sorry bud, your wording gives you away.

 

[1048576]

Lets try once again to explain this in the simplest possible way.

Building a church is just as dickish as building a mosque
Not burning a holy book is not as dickish as burning a holy book.

 

[BBQTV]

Sorry bud, your wording gives you away.

gives what away?


by "we" i mean antbody just to clarify

 

[Thino]

that guy is well known

try looking for it i cant go on youtube in school


why is it so wrong to protest something anyway?


and i dont have any problems with them building their thing just so you know because they have a right to build their thing just like we have a right to burn the quran

I dont think he mediatized it as much as Terry Jones did for it to have the same worldwide impact , especially since the video is flagged for controversy on youtube , while Terry Jone could be heard and seen everywhere on the news

this very video proves it , nobody gives a **** if you burn a Quran and only a few people know about it

but rubbing it in the face of Islam is a bit pushing it , whether its legal or not , protesting
doesnt mean going out of one's way and forget about tact

the problem with both those events are purely moral , rights and laws problems were fixed a long time ago

 

[OizenX]

Why are people calling this illegal? Its 100% legal, hell its the first amendment.

Why the world got so butthurt about it is beyond me.

 

[Namaste]

I don't believe anyone here said it was illegal. I agree that it shouldn't have been given media attention, the guy runs a cult-like church of barely 20 people, he shouldn't have been given a public spotlight for this.

gives what away?


by "we" i mean antbody just to clarify

But in your actual post you referenced "them" and then later switched to "we" in a way that implies "the rest", casting them as not being part of the "we". Not saying that's what you mean, but I do believe that's what Evil Eye was trying to say.

But either way, the 9/11 mosque controversy is based on fabrications. It's blocks away from the site, and is more of a community center then a mosque. Only reason people would be against it is if they buy into the lies that Islam instructs their followers to murder Christians and Jews and believe all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, something pushed by the religion right who so desperately want America to wage a holy war.

 

[Pluvia]

I like the fact that people are still saying "Oh yeah we have the right to do this etc".

Anyone that says that is completely missing the point. Yes you do have the right to do that etc but the extremists don't give a ****. Pointing out their hypocrisy or illogic isn't going to achieve anything.

Quite literally the best thing to do in this situation is not unnecessarily (and stupidly) antagonize the people that hate your guts and are in a position to attack your troops.

 

[Xianglian]

I like the fact that people are still saying "Oh yeah we have the right to do this etc".

Anyone that says that is completely missing the point. Yes you do have the right to do that etc but the extremists don't give a ****. Pointing out their hypocrisy or illogic isn't going to achieve anything.

Quite literally the best thing to do in this situation is not unnecessarily (and stupidly) antagonize the people that hate your guts and are in a position to attack your troops.

Not necessarily. The very fact that they do have the right to do it is what makes the extremists angry. You are 100% correct when you say that pointing out the flaws in their logic wont accomplish anything. The religious right are like 5 year old kids. They will scream and shout and annoy you until you look at them and give them your attention. This whole issue about burning Qurans would not have been an issue if they guy did not have the media planting his face on TV screens across America.

However, just being an American antagonizes extremists. We have the freedom to say what we want. The women in this country have the freedom to do whatever they want to. The fact that our president does not have th power to tell the church to not burn Qurans, irks them as well. The best thing to do is to eliminate the leaders so the numbers for these terrorist groups do not increase any more than it has already due to this blown-out-of-proportion situation.

 

[Pluvia]

Taking out the leaders of religious terrorist organisations wont get rid of religious extremism sadly.

 

[Xianglian]

True, but it will disorganize them.

 

[Pluvia]

Temporarily. They'll just reorganize themselves sooner or later.