Church plans Quran-burning event on 9/11

[~N9NE~]

It's obvious that such a course of action is highly inflammatory and serves no positive purpose. It will only incite anger and hatred and I would recommend that anyone who were to do this to sincerely evaluate their actions. I strongly disagree with their actions. I also near fear for their safety as a result of any repercussions.

I do however find it grossly hypocritical that the media regularly highlights these cases and brands anyone who criticises Islam as irrational Islamophobic fear mongers. No one can criticise Islam within a public forum without being branded Islamophobic. It's a conclusion that people overzealously jump to. Criticism of Christianity, Judaism and other religions is anyone's game though. We have to get rid of this fragile climate and allow for open, free discourse about Islam.

To those who deem such behaviour ridiculous, compare it to the reaction to the Danish cartoons of Muhammad in 2006, when at least 100 people were killed in retaliation. Remember the retaliation towards Salman Rushdie's book The Satanic Verses. Remember the murder of Theo Van Gogh for his film Submission.

Let's have a Bible burning day the next day. :D For as all of you know, many of the stories in the quran are derived from the bible.

Muhammad had a poor grasp of both The Bible and Christian theology. Most of his knowledge came from heretical Christian communities within Arabia and so the accounts told in the Qur'an are grossly inaccurate when compared to the corresponding Biblical accounts.

 

[1048576]

Oh please, you've got the president himself saying the mosquies are immoral, just totally within their legal rights. If that's not criticizing Muslims I don't know what is.

As a fat, gay athiest, it pisses me off to no end to hear stupid Christians scream persecution. It's like, what the **** else do you want?

 

[BBQTV]

are you really a fat gay athiest?

and obama is islamic

 

[Fuelbi]

So what do you think the Illuminati will think of this?

 

[Luigitoilet]

Oh please, you've got the president himself saying the mosquies are immoral, just totally within their legal rights. If that's not criticizing Muslims I don't know what is.

As a fat, gay athiest, it pisses me off to no end to hear stupid Christians scream persecution. It's like, what the **** else do you want?

Do you have a source for that?

Also, if you lose some weight you won't be so persecuted.

 

[Clownbot]

EDIT: Nv m

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

are you really a fat gay athiest?

and obama is islamic

No, no he isn't. It is well documented that Obama is a christian.

 

[Clownbot]

No, no he isn't. It is well documented that Obama is a christian.

That was what my last post was about actually, but then I noticed the and figured he was joking.

 

[BBQTV]

That was what my last post was about actually, but then I noticed the and figured he was joking.

and your absolutely right!

shame on you BPC!

 

[UberMario]

This is why I don't particularly like other Christians.

They tend to be ignorant and condemn other religions because of what they did.

Acceptance is just a hopeless dream I guess.

There are people like them in EVERY religion, and I'm sure the majority of Christians are at least slightly opposed to this, I know I am. Just because groups like Al Qaeda are Muslim [or mostly Muslim] does not mean that they [the religion's believers] are evil, though radicals like the aforementioned deserve to be stopped for their acts. Hitler was a radical Aethiest brought up on Catholicism, does that mean both of those groups should be considered evil too or should be stereotyped as such? Of course not. One bad egg should not spoil the whole carton.

 

[TL?]

I'm guessing these people don't have the quran just lying around their house. So, wouldn't they have to purchase a copy in order to burn one? Burning some paper will do absolutely nothing to such a large organization(or to any really). Money will be given to the very people they oppose so they can accomplish nothing.

 

[El Nino]

I do however find it grossly hypocritical that the media regularly highlights these cases and brands anyone who criticises Islam as irrational Islamophobic fear mongers.

Hello, N9NE.

We have to get rid of this fragile climate and allow for open, free discourse about Islam.

Well, here's what I think. I think the general public needs to spend less time nitpicking each other's personal religious doctrines and more time focusing on other things. I think religious criticism is better left to professors and students of theology, who may be able to engage each other in open debate in a calm rational manner, or devoted practitioners who have established rapport with each other.

But for everyone else, it'd be better to respect personal boundaries and keep a clear divide between the public and the private.

"Good fences make good neighbors" and all that.

Edit:

Also, if you lose some weight you won't be so persecuted.

It helps when trying to outrun an angry mob.

 

[1048576]

Do you have a source for that?

Also, if you lose some weight you won't be so persecuted.

Sure, www.google.com

I could lose weight, just like a black dude could dye his skin. Alternatively, people could stop being stereotyping *******. If you want to say a black guy should wear light clothing while bicycling at night, fine. If you want to say I should pay more taxes for healthcare, fine (well actually that's sort of like taxing lung cancer instead of cigarettes, but w/e). But yall go way above and beyond. For example, name one fat smart guy on a TV show? Now name 10 dumb fat characters on TV.

 

[El Nino]

Sure, www.google.com

I guess you meant this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/

"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there," he said in response to a reporter's question after he spoke about efforts to aid the Gulf Coast region. "I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about."

If you want to say a black guy should wear light clothing while bicycling at night, fine.

I think most people in general should wear light clothing while bicycling at night. I've come close to hitting numerous white people at night.

And most of the time I ain't even tryin' to.

For example, name one fat smart guy on a TV show?

Rosie O'Donnell?

Oh wait.

Well, if it makes you feel better, you're definitely not alone. TV shows kind of gravitate toward the lowest common denominator. We all get shafted one way or another.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Sure, www.google.com

I could lose weight, just like a black dude could dye his skin. Alternatively, people could stop being stereotyping *******. If you want to say a black guy should wear light clothing while bicycling at night, fine. If you want to say I should pay more taxes for healthcare, fine (well actually that's sort of like taxing lung cancer instead of cigarettes, but w/e). But yall go way above and beyond. For example, name one fat smart guy on a TV show? Now name 10 dumb fat characters on TV.

Wait, so you mean to say you were born a lardass?

google.com isn't a source.

 

[Crimson King]

I could lose weight, just like a black dude could dye his skin. Alternatively, people could stop being stereotyping *******./QUOTE]

I really don't understand your argument here.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Sure, www.google.com

I could lose weight, just like a black dude could dye his skin. Alternatively, people could stop being stereotyping *******.

Err... No? Fat people may have slower metabolisms, but that does not mean they can't lose weight. There's more to being black than just skin color; also facial features and genetic makeup. There is nothing special to being fat other than personal choice to eat too much and not exercise enough (other than in very rare cases). You could lose weight, just like an ignorant redneck could educate himself and become a reasonable person. That's a more fair comparison.

Fat people are discriminated against because they are not only worse humans (like the mentally ******** or criminally misinformed/stupid), but they are able to do something about it and don't (unlike the mentally ******** but like the criminally misinformed/stupid). What you are saying is like asking teachers not to give the stupid kid in class bad grades just because he refuses to learn-oh wait they do that don't they... ****.

 

[Glöwworm]

Err... No? Fat people may have slower metabolisms, but that does not mean they can't lose weight. There's more to being black than just skin color; also facial features and genetic makeup. There is nothing special to being fat other than personal choice to eat too much and not exercise enough (other than in very rare cases). You could lose weight, just like an ignorant redneck could educate himself and become a reasonable person. That's a more fair comparison.

Fat people are discriminated against because they are not only worse humans (like the mentally ******** or criminally misinformed/stupid), but they are able to do something about it and don't (unlike the mentally ******** but like the criminally misinformed/stupid). What you are saying is like asking teachers not to give the stupid kid in class bad grades just because he refuses to learn-oh wait they do that don't they... ****.

edit: nevermind

 

[1048576]

I'm saying it's a matter of degree. Fat people don't have to be fat. Black people don't have to be black. Sure it takes less effort for fat people to not be fat, but either way we shouldn't have to do those things to not be assigned the negative characteristics which have no factual basis.

And I have a problem with being labeled as a 'worse human.' Are black people worse because they're harder to see at night?

I could lose weight, but I really like not being hungry. I choose to live a shorter, happier life, and I don't see why you get to pass judgment on me for that, since it hardly affects you at all. Lemme put it this way, Christians are way worse for the utility of society than fat people are, you know with their arbitrary moral intolerances and whatnot. Yet you can't give one example of mistreatment or negative stereotyping of Christians in a fictional setting. We literally just work with what you give us.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Black people don't have to be black.

...

This is wrong on so many degrees. "Not being black" when you were born black is just simply not possible. Black people do have to be black.

Look, I'm fat too. I weigh about 230. But I recognize that I can do something about it. I recognize that it's my own **** bad habits, and lack of exercise that put me in this disgusting body shape. And I am doing something about it. I'm jogging, lifting weights, and cutting down on the sweets. But until I reach a "normal" weight, I expect to be mocked because of it. Mocking a person for being fat is like mocking a person for believing that Global Warming is a myth propagated by the liberal conspiracy theorists looking to tax away every dollar you earn to fund their communist agenda (or, to tie in with your statement, being a christian-wow, I didn't have to edit that at all :V)-it's their choice for believing that ******** bunk, and they are worse people for it.

 

[1048576]

10char .

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

10char .

"He's white, Jim..."

Why don't you like me?
Why don't you like me?
Am I really that bad?
HE'S BAD, HE'S BAD
HE'S BAD, HE'S BAD


"I thing you're a jerk! I'm moving from you!"
"Make me a sandwich."
"I'm moving back to Venice."
"I'll be black."
"Still white, Jim..."


I hate my mother
I hate my father
I hate my sister
And Germaine is a negro!
A NEGRO! A NEGRO!
A NEGRO! A NEGRO!


"I thought he looked good -- what happened to you?"
"Please read this pamphlet."
"I'm so BAD!"


You take the monkey, I'll take the llama,
We'll have a party: get me a Pepsi --
Michael is Janet, Janet is Michael --
I'm so confused now --
Who is Diana?


He's oxygenated
His nose is deflated
And he thinks he looks good to you
And he thinks he looks good to you

But really, MJ is still black. He's just black with a skin condition. Albino negros are still black.

 

[1048576]

Are you blind? He was black. He's now white.

I don't mean that cultural nonsense. That whole black culture thing and Bill Clinton being the first black president and whatnot is exactly the kind of stupid stereotyping I'm arguing against.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm saying it has nothing to do with culture, it has to do with genetics. MJ is still black because of his genetic material. Reread post please, albino negros are STILL BLACK. No amount of plastic surgery can change that.

 

[1048576]

Fine, just change all the above posts from "be black" to "look black." I hate arguing semantics, and I hate arguing minutia.

Edit: Oh and black people to black-looking people. Or hell, just change black to dark-skinned.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

And now I've really lost the string of conversation completely.

Excuse me, I'm drunk

 

[Luigitoilet]

That was one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read in my entire life.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

"And this is the part... Where I name people who are not the illegitimate son of Michael Jackson.
...Bob is not the illegitimate son of Michael Jackson."
"BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT MR. BOB! BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT MR. BOB! "
"Arnold Sylvestry"
"BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT SIR SYLVESTRY! BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT SIR SYLVESTRY!"
"Jean Kirkpatrick"
"BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT KIRKPATRICK! BILLIE JEAN! IS NOT KIRKPATRICK!"
"WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME, WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME, WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME, WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME?"

 

[1048576]

That was one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read in my entire life.

Uh huh. Care to try a rebuttal?

 

[Luigitoilet]

Uh huh. Care to try a rebuttal?

Why would I want to? I just said it was one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read.

 

[1048576]

Wow, had I known that was a legit debate tactic all along I would have skipped all that logic and reasoning.

Hey Luigi, your argument is dumb so I'm not going to respond to it.

 

[BBQTV]

this thread is getting derailed

 

[Neverbound]

Good job on the wonderful derailment but seriously I'm at a lost of words on the issue.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Wow, had I known that was a legit debate tactic all along I would have skipped all that logic and reasoning.

Hey Luigi, your argument is dumb so I'm not going to respond to it.

I'm not arguing anything, I'm straight up making fun of you. And if this isn't a response to my post, then what is it?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Uh huh. Care to try a rebuttal?

I don't think he's saying that any part of our individual arguments are dumb, he's saying the actual dispute is stupid. Which I agree on. Vodka does terrible things to a man's sensibility.

 

[1048576]

Yeah me too. How'd that go again?

A. Look at all these crazy people. They must be Christian.
B. Christians are soooo totally the victims all the time.
C. Nuh-uh, fat people have it worse
D. That's cause fat people are worse
C. Yeah, just like black people, but you shouldn't hate.
D. Black people don't have dark skin

That would have been fun trying to take it back up the chain if one of us eventually conceded something at that level.

Also lol at me getting trolled by Luigi

 

[~N9NE~]

Hello, N9NE.

Hello El Nino, how have you been?

Well, here's what I think. I think the general public needs to spend less time nitpicking each other's personal religious doctrines and more time focusing on other things. I think religious criticism is better left to professors and students of theology, who may be able to engage each other in open debate in a calm rational manner, or devoted practitioners who have established rapport with each other.

But for everyone else, it'd be better to respect personal boundaries and keep a clear divide between the public and the private.

I appreciate your sentiments, but ultimately I think your argument is redundant. Discussion will always permeate throughout society.

I think open discourse, conducted in a manner of mutual respect, needs to be encouraged. Too often people have decided to tread lightly on issues concerning Islam and the West and have opted to be politically correct as to avoid either provocation or retaliation. We need to do away with this mentality and address the issue openly. Blame for this climate lies on both sides. In the West people are overzealous in branding critics of Islam as Islamophobic and are eager to be politically correct, while within Islamic states the powers that be are extremely reluctant to engage in discourse.

Of course such discussion is best suited to those with extensive knowledge on the subject. However, by excluding the general public from this discussion, you would be muting the voice of the people that would stand to gain the most from open discourse. Knowledge is essential, too many people are either ignorant, misinformed or both.

Discourse is encouraged within certain settings. Speaking from experience, universities allow for such discussion, but this needs to be extended.

Finally, let's extend your argument to politics.

Well, here's what I think. I think the general public needs to spend less time nitpicking each other's personal political perspectives and more time focusing on other things. I think political criticism is better left to politicians and students of politics, who may be able to engage each other in open debate in a calm rational manner, or devoted political campaigners who have established rapport with each other.

But for everyone else, it'd be better to respect personal boundaries and keep a clear divide between the public and the private.

Politics would be meaningless if the public were denied their voice. In reality, I understand that at times the public's voice is ignored, but to keep the public in the dark over political issues can not be encouraged. Why is religious debate so different? Both institutions are built and thrive on the engagement of the public.

Out of curiosity, what did you mean by

spend........more time focusing on other things.

On a final note, it would be really refreshing if the media in our countries decided to highlight the intense persecution that non Muslims are continually subjected to within Islamic states. A little knowledge and perspective would be welcome.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This 'ceremony' is so stupid on so many levels. I don't think some people realize the consequences of their actions. Ignorance is so prevalent in this country it's ****ing ridiculous.

 

[El Nino]

Hello El Nino, how have you been?

Same ****, different day.

In the West people are overzealous in branding critics of Islam as Islamophobic and are eager to be politically correct

Not where I am.

But then, I am an American.

Politics would be meaningless if the public were denied their voice. In reality, I understand that at times the public's voice is ignored, but to keep the public in the dark over political issues can not be encouraged. Why is religious debate so different? Both institutions are built and thrive on the engagement of the public.

Politics, in a democracy, falls in the public domain. This is because of the roles voters and taxpayers play in the decision-making process (though indirectly). That's why discussions on political issues are (theoretically) productive and why they receive the media spotlight.

In the U.S., there is a problem with the topics we choose to debate. And on this topic, the one this thread is focused on, we are talking entirely too much about religion.

I'm not against what you seem to want, but I do have a problem with the disproportionate amount of media focus that is given to religion on this issue.

When Americans discuss Islam, we are not discussing religion. We are discussing terrorism and politics. That's the problem.

The U.S. has another issue with the general lack of respect for personal boundaries. Discussions on subjects like religion and sexual orientation begin and end as attacks on individuals rather than dissections of a topic.

I know it's going to happen whether I agree with the media focus or not, and I'm not about "denying" anyone a voice. I do see it as a derailment of the public discussion. There's just nothing I can do about it.

Edit: N9NE, you've said previously that you don't hate Muslims. But what is your opinion of the religion of Islam?

 

[~N9NE~]

Not where I am.

But then, I am an American.

It happens in America too.

Bill Clinton, talking in 2006 about the Danish drawings of Muhammad:

"So now what are we going to do? ... Replace the anti-Semitic prejudice with anti-Islamic prejudice?

In your opinion, is criticism of Islam and associating Muhammad with violence equivalent to the mistreatment of Jews purely because of their race?

It may not happen regularly on ground level, and it is apt to call bigots Islamophobic, but when people rationally criticise Islam then let's just accept it as that, rational criticism.

Also, just a quick observational issue: how many times has the word Islamophobic been tossed around in all these threads we've been debating with each other about Islam?

In the U.S., there is a problem with the topics we choose to debate. And on this topic, the one this thread is focused on, we are talking entirely too much about religion.

I'm not against what you seem to want, but I do have a problem with the disproportionate amount of media focus that is given to religion on this issue.

Religion is intrinsic to the issue within this thread. I understand that we can't look at things in isolation though.

When Americans discuss Islam, we are not discussing religion. We are discussing terrorism and politics. That's the problem.

Both are issues within Islam, so their discussion is unavoidable. We need the full perspective.

I think you're suggesting that religious debate should just be about doctrine and the theological aspect? Even then, both are issues within Islamic doctrine, so again their discussion is unavoidable.

The U.S. has another issue with the general lack of respect for personal boundaries. Discussions on subjects like religion and sexual orientation begin and end as attacks on individuals rather than dissections of a topic.

Attacks on individuals obviously has no place within rational and respectable discourse. Unfortunately, people allow emotions and motives to dictate their actions.

Edit: N9NE, you've said previously that you don't hate Muslims. But what is your opinion of the religion of Islam?

I don't hate anyone. As far as my opinion of Islam, I disagree with practically every aspect of it.

-I disagree with the idea that it is a peaceful religion.
-I disagree with Muhammad's teachings and principles, including the justification of violence and deceit.
-I disagree with the concept that Muhammad was the pinnacle of mankind and that should be emulated.
-I disagree with Islam's belief of Muhammad as a prophet, not merely because I'm Christian, but because of simple theological scrutiny of what a prophet is.
-I find it difficult to grasp how Muhammad's supposedly divine revelations seemed to benefit him both financially and sexually.
-I disagree with the ideology in Islam that Non Muslims are inferior to Muslims and should be subjugated.
-I disagree with the gross inaccuracies concerning Christian theology as presented in the Qur'an.
-I disagree with the implementation of Sharia law.
-I disagree with the suggestion that Islam advocates unitarian monotheism.
-I disagree with the subjugation of women within Islam.
-I disagree with the Islamic ideology that heaven is, to put it bluntly, an orgy.

I could go on, but think I went into too much detail. What is your opinion concerning Islam?