Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[Gimpyfish62]

so... are people seriously implying that sonic isn't horrible or what

the fundamentals of his overall character are just dreadful in every respect

o.O

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh he's bad. But he fares okay in tournaments.

 

[Browny]

so... are people seriously implying that sonic isn't horrible or what

You're not funny, we know sonic is bad, we are looking at how he fares in tournaments.

Why are you acting like such an idiot Gimpy. Even when told what is going on, you just choose to ignore it. Which might have been bearable if it was actually funny, which was the case with the panda Vs dtilt video.

 

[Kinzer]

He's horrible, it's just nobody else wants to bother with the matchup to put Sonic in his place.

We're outta control, man!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Oh he's bad. But he fares okay in tournaments.

that's illogical

He's a bad cahracter - if he's doing well in anything that means the quality of player at that particular tournament is likely fairly low.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltqgP-Xgceg

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

And besides. Don't you play Sheik and Bowser? Sonic outplaces both of them. ^_^


1. Lain (Ice Climbers, D3)($198.00)
2. Omniswell (Ice Climbers, Metaknight)($99.00)
3. Shugo Senpai (Sonic)($33.00)
4. King Chaos(Samus, Rob)
5. NOJ(GnW)
5. Bowyer(MK)
7. Falco400 (Diddy, Wolf, Donkey kong)
7. JoeS (Snake, Metaknight)

Joel and Bowyer need to stop being so bad.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i dont play this game

edit: let it be known character loyalty is a stupid concept.

 

[Browny]

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltqgP-Xgceg

so... are people seriously implying that sonic isn't horrible or what

You're not funny, we know sonic is bad, we are looking at how he fares in tournaments.

Why are you acting like such an idiot Gimpy. Even when told what is going on, you just choose to ignore it. Which might have been bearable if it was actually funny, which was the case with the panda Vs dtilt video.

WE HAVE ACCEPTED HIS WEAKNESS, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. WE ARE DISCUSSING TOURNAMENT RESULTS

holy hell how many times does it have to be said

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Indeed. But I'm saying statistical data says that Sonic is better than people give him credit for.

Edit: lol. That video is what made me do so well with Sonic too.

sonic runs fast but isn't fast at the same time

he's alright i guess - only the best of the best sonic players will ever accomplish anything because of his extremely low priorities...

underrated by the better players i think

I agree with this. XD

 

[EdreesesPieces]

For the record I do not hate Sonic. I own DVDs of the entire SatAM series, I own the archie comics 1-100, i've beaten every sonic game known to man include Sonic R on the Saturn. I love Sonic. I just don't think he's good, so just clearing that up

 

[Napilopez]

Gimpyfish, we all know Sonic sucks(we have this thread afterall, even if its slightly outdated: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196545) . People just say he sucks for the wrong reasons imo. Sonic being outprioritized or outranged in moves is rarely the issue with good Sonics. He gets around that wayyyy too easily. Its like saying mk is bad because his smashes have subpar knockback usually. He just cant kill, andhe doesnt have any dominating moves. He doesnt have any "get out my face" moves either. Again, "priority" doesn't matter if you spend most of your time grabbing people. Not to mention he does have "priority" people just don't know where to find it >_>.

EDIT: Oh I never thought you hated Sonic Edrees, your argument wasn't pointless afterall XD.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

We don't think he's good. We think he's about average. He'll NEVER break middle of mid. I just think he's viable to an extent. He won't win an FC(or PROBABLY place) I just think he's viable enough to win or place well in like. 60 man tourneys. He's better than people give him credit for but he's not THAT good. People underrate him too much I guess is the overall point.

 

[OlimarFan]

Chill...fighting isn't going to get us anywhere...

 

[Napilopez]

Your sig is amazing OlimarFan, and it negates everything I disagree with that gimpy has posted about Sonic lawl.

 

[lain]

Only fools think Peach has an advantage against IC's.

JKBUK is right and speaks with knowledge on this matter. If an ice climbers at a heightened metagame were to play a peach of the same, the IC's would **** simple because they are so well covered in their options, their grab game is of course gay, and desynced blizzard ***** things and there's not a whole lot of characters that can deal with it (namely peach).

This isn't about tiers. Ice Climbers are just ridiculous at a high level of play.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*sticks up flame shield* Couldn't Peach simply Toad/get higher than the Blizzard?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Desynching should take care of that.

 

[Zankoku]

Blizzard? They don't even touch turnips...

Yeah desynched Blizzard ***** things, forget I said anything about Peach actually having an attack. Or any character in the game, because Ice Climbers are totally unstoppable at this mystical level of the heightened metagame.

 

[Zodac]

2 Falco (12 top8, 12 top4, 4 top2, 1 win) - 311.4 - 4

3 Snake (19 top8, 16 top4, 6 top2, 4 wins) - 192.3 - 2

4 King Dedede (15 top8, 7 top4, 3 top2, 6 wins) - 145.6 - 3

?

snake beats falco at all the stats, explain...

 

[Kinzer]

Falco has placed in tournaments with more people in them...

 

[Zodac]

30%+ more points though?

 

[Kinzer]

Math is an exact Science, my good chum, it won't lie when it's calculated...

 

[Shaya]

Use your brain then Zodac. FALCO WON A LARGE TOURNAMENT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE.

Snake won 4 tournaments with 14 entrants (guess). If Falco's one tournament win had 100 entrants it would blow snake's 4 wins out of the water...

 

[Zodac]

Base values are then multiplied by number of entrants and entry fee, then divided by 160.

fail formula

 

[Kinzer]

I never understood why 160, but it works! ^_^

 

[Browny]

160 was because it used to be 16 minimum entrants, assuming an average entry fee of $10

 

[dainbramage]

30%+ more points though?

TOURNAMENT: So Cal Smash Alliance: West Coast Circuit #1
LINK: http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=3403
DATE: December 6th, 2008
LOCALE: Pacific West
ENTRANTS: 108
ENTRY: $15.00
1 DEHF (Falco)
2 SK92 (Falco)

Blame that tourney.

 

[Drizzt6195]

Lucario and Dk are way down

 

[MK26]

160 was because it used to be 16 minimum entrants, assuming an average entry fee of $10

So then it should be divided by 130 now?

Blame that tourney.

17*108*15/160=172.125

Yes, you can blame that tourney

 

[Tenki]

Idunno I think Sonic is at mid-tier status. He can become quite tricky and technical if in the right hands...........but looking at Sonic's properties, it's obvious he's low.....seriously his priority and range really do suck

I just say he's mid because i'm just that Biased...........oh well at least I admitted it

For the record I do not hate Sonic. I own DVDs of the entire SatAM series, I own the archie comics 1-100, i've beaten every sonic game known to man include Sonic R on the Saturn. I love Sonic. I just don't think he's good, so just clearing that up

WE HAVE ACCEPTED HIS WEAKNESS, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. WE ARE DISCUSSING TOURNAMENT RESULTS

holy hell how many times does it have to be said

I think Sonic mains and fanboys need never speak of this again.

>_>

<_<

Blame that tourney.

lol.

So then it should be divided by 130 now?



17*108*15/160=172.125

Yes, you can blame that tourney

That raises an interesting point ._.;

Though, everything's being divided by 160, so unless you're truncating values I don't think it would change much, ranking-wise. The only places where 1-2 points would make a difference would be in the middle/low tiers/rankings.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Only fools think Peach has an advantage against IC's.

JKBUK is right and speaks with knowledge on this matter. If an ice climbers at a heightened metagame were to play a peach of the same, the IC's would **** simple because they are so well covered in their options, their grab game is of course gay, and desynced blizzard ***** things and there's not a whole lot of characters that can deal with it (namely peach).

This isn't about tiers. Ice Climbers are just ridiculous at a high level of play.

Ok, So you are gonna sit here they are crazy.......over grabs? What the heck you gonna do when one shuts down your grab game like idk..........Peach? All they have left is desyncing?And with that, they will be forced to fight more than depending on grabs. If that is the case what up with DeDeDe? Why is he not dominating tournaments. and most importantly, why is IC not dominating tournamets? If they are that godly why arent they winning as much as Meta/snake and now Falco.

Oh wait, no that many IC players? That gonna be your excuse? ok then. How about this one. Why arent YOU talking all tournaments you enter. I just crushed this debate a few pages back. your friend was even right to realize it. And what you have to say?

"If an ice climbers at a heightened metagame were to play a peach of the same, the IC's would **** simple because they are so well covered in their options, their grab game is of course gay, and desynced blizzard ***** things and there's not a whole lot of characters that can deal with it (namely peach)."

You can't really back anything up at all. And I have. And from how you talking, you seem to be going on about craps as the main thing to do bring the true hurt. And just how the hell you gonna do that when Peach is hard to grab? You are the only IC player on this site that things they have an advantage over Peach. And this is the dumbiest thing I have ever her with this. You getting to hyped all for the fact that one grab with them can equal a stock.

Their meta game aint **** compared to others cause it is mostly around chaingrabs to deaths. OMG that is so ground breaking. Get out of here with this crap. Just incase you missed what I told your boy:

- Peach seperates them easy
- Her air game pwns thiers and her ground game is also better.
- She edguard them for days if done correctly and even gimp
- Peach is just a hard character to grab
- Peach has more range than then.
- Her spacing game is better then thiers.

And what do they have?

-chain grabs
-Desynce

2 things in this fight with her. Be serious with this. And Peach's meta game is much better than IC. And dude don't you come here telling me otherwise. There is so much stuff on this character it is insane. And I would say she is one of the most technical characters in this game. She has so many styles. So much stuff you can do with just turnips alone. And omg, don't even get me started with the many things with her floating.

Seriously man, don't do it to yourself.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

If that is the case what up with DeDeDe? Why is he not dominating tournaments.

he can't CG MK, G&W, Falco, some of the top (maybe excluding G&W as of late) characters. IC's can CG everyone.

and most importantly, why is IC not dominating tournamets?
Oh wait, no that many IC players? That gonna be your excuse? ok then. How about this one. Why arent YOU talking all tournaments you enter.

And besides. Don't you play Sheik and Bowser? Sonic outplaces both of them. ^_^


1. Lain (Ice Climbers, D3)($198.00)
2. Omniswell (Ice Climbers, Metaknight)($99.00)
3. Shugo Senpai (Sonic)($33.00)
4. King Chaos(Samus, Rob)
5. NOJ(GnW)
5. Bowyer(MK)
7. Falco400 (Diddy, Wolf, Donkey kong)
7. JoeS (Snake, Metaknight)

Joel and Bowyer need to stop being so bad.

*cough*

And what do they have?

-chain grabs
-Desynce

Both of which IC's excel at. No other character has the advantages of desyncing. And no other character can CG as well as IC's. You said it yourself.

"Meta games are based around CGing"

well IC's are the best at CGing. Period. So wouldn't IC's have one of the best meta games?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok, so you say excluding G&W. So 2 characters. Meta and Falco. With that raito out of the rest of the cast, He should be just hacking it up. Yet people are not stupid. People know what the character is about. Smart players know what to do and expect. This is what seperates the pros from everyone else below. Thats my point, people who can get change grabbed by them, the players behind it are smart and don't fall for that crap so easy.

Bum (one of the best DK's in the USA, fights DDD, and he allows them to go for his chaingrab to death, and he beats them. Why?, cause he is freaking smart and knows what to expect. with something like that against them, he still hacks it.

And the dude won one tournament......one. That does not mean anything. I won one tournament with Peach in CT. So I guess I should go on and saying I am godly and Peach ***** all played right all because of that one tournament win. let lain keep doing that or him come to VA/MD and win a tournament there, the best region for smash.

Now as I said they have the chaingrab and desyncing. thats 2 things they have against Peach. Now look at the list that Peach has on them. She has more **** that she can do to to them. I have lots of options. Also your chaingrab percent gets cut in half or even lower just cause Peach is just to hard to grab, even for DeDeDE, and his grab is broken.

Also they would not have one of the best meta games. Cause thats one thing they have. Now look at other characters that have many options and evoled meta games. All the player has to do is shut thier grab down. then what. The other stuff they have such as desyncing is not as great as thier cg for wins. Having a metagame based on one thing is not that great. You need more options. shut down thier grab game and thats 50% of thier game gone over one thing.

So yea. Also idk what he can do to the other characters and how they deal with it. but I am talking about Peach vs IC. She has the advantage. Nuff said. And I really don't wanna waste my time having to get into more detail about Peach in genral to prove this. I can go on for days about this. there is just to much with peach alone. But I don't think I have to resort to that. it will just be over kill.

60-40 Peach

 

[Flayl]

So is this list still including tournaments where infinites are banned?

 

[Kinzer]

To be fair, Shugo didn't know the matchup between Sonic & ICs, if the others are saying he is good as they make him look, I'm sure he wouldn't be in third.

 

[Napilopez]

Question, how can you compare two different character's metagame in terms of which is "better"? Not rhetorical, simply asking. I understand how you can say when one character's metagame is advancing more quickly than the other's, but saying one metagame is "better" than the other, I can't make sense of.

Anyways, I have to agree with Dark Peach and the rest in Peach's favor here. He's not even saying that Peach totally destroy or obliterates or even hard counters the ICs. He is stating a 60-40 advantage, which just seems totally reasonable to me. Simply put, CGs are hard to do if you're a hard character to grab, which peach most definitely is against the ICs. This issue is further exacerbated by the fact that peach separates them quite well. Desynching is great and all, but it's not a near guaranteed kill like one of their chaingrabs could be. Therefore peach has a notable advantage, but not huge humongoliscious MK vs CF huge.

Again, "don't get grabbed". Peach has skizzles at that, yo.

EDIT: Well, it was agreed across the boards that Sonic Vs. ICs is about 50-50, and lain is one of the best ICs players, so i'm not sure about that.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh I forgot to mention one of them had to go MK >.>

ICs are rare... at least AFAIK.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Joel and Bowyer need to stop being so bad.

Oh ... But I've never played against a sonic and then I faced Lain in losers... I swear *tear*

To be fair, Shugo didn't know the matchup between Sonic & ICs, if the others are saying he is good as they make him look, I'm sure he wouldn't be in third.

Are you kidding me? Get real son, if I had the smallest knowledge of how to fight against Sonic or what sonic was capable of doing or punishing, if Shugo knew how to fight against ICs, and if Lain even played IC's vs Shugo's sonic, then Shugo never would have beaten me in winners and wouldn't have beaten Lain in losers... getting 5th place... shugo was by far the best sonic I've ever seen, but that's probably because I had no clue of what was even capable with sonic... and it's seriously hard to read people if you've never seen half the stuff they are about to do.

Drk Peach: The problem with IC's isn't the grab, it's getting around blizzard while being careful not to get grabbed. I seriously don't think Peach is very capable of getting around blizzard if the IC player is smart with desynchs... and nobody better bring up toad because that's a really easy way to get grabbed... and even if IC's never get a grab. Having to be extremely careful for 8 minutes leads to the positions where grabs are easy to avoid but taking a little bit of damage is not so much, and if that goes on for long enough, they'll be able to just kill you without a grab.

 

[Zankoku]

No, seriously, turnips don't get stopped by Blizzard. Why does nobody believe me?

 

[Kinzer]

Gah no need to get angry just because somebody doesn't know somebody! I know no more than 150 would possibly know who I am, and if Shugo is the same, he wouldn't mind...