Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[PKNintendo]

What do you plan on doing in the next tourney Edreese? Get some more points for Peach, bust out a Ness or two. Maybe even go medieval with TL (didn't know you used him)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach is my main, and I'll use Ness when counterpicked on dumb stages mostly, because he's good on them IMO. I just picked up Toon Link and I love him =)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Four weeks of data doesn't mean a right lot. However, the Sonic mains can say that Sonic was in B rank. And they wouldn't be lieing. Much like Peach was in A rank

If Sonic's results are skewed by the amount of them (it's certainly arguable that they are. Last time I counted, Sonic had about 36 results on Ankokus list in the past list, whereas lower characters and ever some of the characters above him had much less) then that must be taken into consideration. Simply ignoring them is a big no no though.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Sonic is placing reasonably well in large tourneys as well as small ones with the help of a secondary. This shows currently, he's tourney viable to an extent. It wouldn't surprise me that if later on, people learnt the match up and Sonic's results dropped

 

[slikvik]

my poor poor 2-D companion. i have failed you

 

[Dark.Pch]

IC's ***** anyone. Neither of you have played a godly IC's; Hylians or Lains

I suggest you hop off thier balls and keep it serious with match ups and not fanboish

Peach ***** IC, it is not on thier favor. Learn match ups before you speak like you know it all all because your heros **** with the character as you say. And I have played some beast IC's so before you get on me, ask before you assume. You think you can just grab a good Peach that easy? If you seriously think that, then you know nothing.

Peach>IC, nuff said.

 

[Skyshroud]

I suggest you hop off thier balls and keep it serious with match ups and not fanboish

Peach ***** IC, it is not on thier favor. Learn match ups before you speak like you know it all all because your heros **** with the character as you say. And I have played some beast IC's so before you get on me, ask before you assume. You think you can just grab a good Peach that easy? If you seriously think that, then you know nothing.

Peach>IC, nuff said.

QFT. "Don't get grabbed!" would probably be a pretty good explanation. The ICs are just like Dedede with more powerful but harder grabs (I recognize that this is probably a poor analogy because the rest of their respective games are different, but you get the point). If the ICs have difficulty getting in range and setting up a grab, and good player can take advantage of that and not get punished as often.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Poor Toon Link. Maybe I'll start trying to give him some points ;D



How does this argue with what I'm saying? This data doesn't prove anything. 1. For all you know a million sonic players did enter the tournament and all got last place at all these tournaments, Anokoku's list only records top 7. Let me rephrase my wording. Sonic can be played well but the reason he has a much better position on Ankoku's list over the tier list is because Sonic users tend to report their results more 2. (such as small 15 man tournaments) 3. and there are more sonic users than users of other low tier characters due to character fandom. That's what I'm saying.

thats dumb and you didnt acutally look at what djb posted.

if you lookat the section of the list that dj posted youd see that,
1. sonic only has 11 results compared to robs 21, peachs 13 and g dubs 16. if there were soooooooo many sonics out there dont you think we would have more individual result than ROB? becuase we all know sonic is a more popular character than ROB.
2. once again, if sonic had 11 placings at all 15-16 man tourneys he wouldnt have the points necessary to be at the same level of characters like rob that at this point have twice the tourney representation as sonic does.
3. maybe theres more people playing him because hes a GOOD CHARACTER. I have had plenty of low tier mainers say that there are/were just as many low tier mainer for every other character as there were for sonic. maybe the reason you think sonic has more people playing him is the fact that the tons of people who played low tiers at the beginning realised that characters like link and lucas are not viable for tourneys and dropped them for better characters. whereas the sonic mainers continued to improve the character and come to the realisation that he is good and is tourney viable and that we didnt have to switch characters to get tourney results, like all the other low tier mainers did...

but its just as possible that 50% of every tourney is sonic fanboys, thats TOTALLY possible...

 

[Skyshroud]

1. sonic only has 11 results compared to robs 21, peachs 13 and g dubs 16. if there were soooooooo many sonics out there dont you think we would have more individual result than ROB? becuase we all know sonic is a more popular character than ROB.

I believe Edrees was pointing out that this is faulty logic, since Ankoku only looks at the top 8. Sonic may only have 11 results, but if 44 people were playing him, only 25% were making top 8 (the better players). Now, if ROB has 21 results, but was only accounted for 42 times, we can easily see that 50% would be making top 8. This doesn't prove or disprove anything; it just points out that we don't rightly get any information by number of placings.

 

[Adapt]

Hey Ankoku

Can you post the ranking list for fall+december, or maybe Oct, Nov, Dec. You don't have to post all the points and wins/losses, mainly just the relative rankings

I think that would give us a better idea what is really going on. Seeing as a lot of people are complaining about not enough results.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I suggest you hop off thier balls and keep it serious with match ups and not fanboish

Peach ***** IC, it is not on thier favor. Learn match ups before you speak like you know it all all because your heros **** with the character as you say. And I have played some beast IC's so before you get on me, ask before you assume. You think you can just grab a good Peach that easy? If you seriously think that, then you know nothing.

Peach>IC, nuff said.

Ok, first off, i have disagreements with hylian. I respect his opinion, but disagree with 99% of what he says. I'm boasting lain because hes a smashfriend, just sticking up for his characters.

You think ICs can only use grabs? You can dair all you want, when you get de-synced blizzard to the ground we'll see where you go.

I'm not saying peach is bad, i'm saying a meta game IC's are the best thing in this game, and theres nothing Peach, nor any other character, could do about it. I could care less what IC's you've played. I've never seen a good ICs outside of Lain or Hylians, video or @ tourneys. Do they exist? Maybe. Fact is, Lain is one of the best, therefore closer to the meta game then anyone else you've played.

In your ignorance you assume I'm ignorant, you think I don't know match ups, you think I don't know this game. Lets not resort to childish attacks.

God, people need to know their tiers placements and keep to them.

 

[Hylian]

Uh, peach beats IC's imo. Edreese wrecked my IC's with peach. I beat him with GW...

Peach is really really really hard to grab :/.

Also, IC's at top level still have no reliable grab options. If I could get 3 grabs every time I played someone I would win every tournament I went to because of how good I am at CGing lol. Sadly I don't though :/. I'm lucky to get one grab off on Roy_R's marth.

In match-ups where IC's can neutralize their opponent into a bad stage position often they kind of **** though. They can create openings for grabs through stage control vs certain characters(even characters like GW). Peach's float resets this though :/.

Then again you disagree with 99% of what I say JKBUK so lol.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I have zero fear facing IC. She has one of the better matchups against him in the game IMO. Peach can't be de sycned blizzarded to the ground because Peach doesn't have to approach IC, he has to approach her because of turnips. There are lots of ways to bait out blizzard and punish IC for it so if you think you can go desycned blizzard happy on a good Peach it won't work. It's pretty hard for IC. I wouldn't say Peach ***** IC but she has a solid advantage.

 

[Zankoku]

JKBuK, in this case I'd have to agree that Peach has a favorable matchup against Ice Climbers. Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, and to some degree Meta Knight give Ice Climbers trouble as well. Saying that ICs are unbeatable because you play with lain is not really strong reasoning.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

JKBuK, in this case I'd have to agree that Peach has a favorable matchup against Ice Climbers. Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, and to some degree Meta Knight give Ice Climbers trouble as well. Saying that ICs are unbeatable because you play with lain is not really strong reasoning.

To add to that list, apparently Ike can give IC's some trouble as well with Jab Canceling.

At least, according to one of the few ICs to post in our match-up topic so far. >_> The other one hasn't denied this....

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm gonna have fun with this one.

Ok, first off, i have disagreements with hylian. I respect his opinion, but disagree with 99% of what he says. I'm boasting lain because hes a smashfriend, just sticking up for his characters.

So you already saying you are bais lain all cause he is your friend. If he was to get his azz kicked 100 times by me and Edreese, you still say the same thing, all cause he is your friend. Alreadly you screwed yourself over just by saying this.

You think ICs can only use grabs? You can dair all you want, when you get de-synced blizzard to the ground we'll see where you go.

Oh man, you know nothing. if they are not near each other or get desynced.....better for us? Also good Peach players are not stupid to just go for that BS and then get grabbed. you have no clue the many ways Peach can shut thier game down. And she can easily seperate them. Peach's upclose game is better than ICE. and beats them both in the air and ground. And Peach has so many good options to approach, more than you. Dude lets be for real with this.

I'm not saying peach is bad, i'm saying a meta game IC's are the best thing in this game, and theres nothing Peach, nor any other character, could do about it. I could care less what IC's you've played. I've never seen a good ICs outside of Lain or Hylians, video or @ tourneys. Do they exist? Maybe. Fact is, Lain is one of the best, therefore closer to the meta game then anyone else you've played.

Ok now you really on lains nutz. If he is that godly with them, tell me.how many tournaments has he won? Also, I don't care what he is. Put the best Peach in the USA Vs Best IC in the USA, Peach is taking it. You are relying on this so much just cause you see lain doing his **** with them. Ok, get a dude that ***** with ganon..does this make ganon in general godly, No, He is still bottom and there is a reason for it. The biggiest Part of thier game is grabs. And Peach is hard to grab. Thats how it is with Peach vs DeDeDe, and thats why that fight is even You clearly know nothing of the match up at all, and you are just saying all this stuff like you know the deal all cause of lain?

Also no disrespect to IC's players at all, seriously. But thier meta game is typical and not muched evoled. Lets be serious here with this.

- Peach seperates them easy
- Her air game pwns thiers and her ground game is also better.
- She edguard them for days if done correctly and even gimp
- Peach is just a hard character to grab
- Peach has more range than then.
- Her spacing game is better then thiers.

In your ignorance you assume I'm ignorant, you think I don't know match ups, you think I don't know this game. Lets not resort to childish attacks.

God, people need to know their tiers placements and keep to them.

From how you talking here......No, you don't know this match up. And then you make this stupid tier comment. You must rely and go by tiers and not skills. Skills play a big part in this.

But if you wanna make a stupid tier comment like that, if I am not mistaken, isnt olimar higher than Peach? And she beats the **** out of olimar. don't bias stuff cause of your friend. Just by doing this alone shows you know nothing at all. stick to your character and don't post about others or matches you know nothing of.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Poor Toon Link. Maybe I'll start trying to give him some points ;D



How does this argue with what I'm saying? This data doesn't prove anything. For all you know a million sonic players did enter the tournament and all got last place at all these tournaments, Anokoku's list only records top 7. Let me rephrase my wording. Sonic can be played well but the reason he has a much better position on Ankoku's list over the tier list is because Sonic users tend to report their results more (such as small 15 man tournaments) and there are more sonic users than users of other low tier characters due to character fandom. That's what I'm saying.

That's clearly WRONG though. Sonic reported 11. The only one's with less are Lucario with 10 and Peach with 7. Pika tied. This proves that Sonic is placing either BETTER or at LARGER tournaments than most of his competition.

Also who cares how many Sonics LOST? I'll bet there are tons of tier whores playing MK and losing. That doesn't lower his value. It looks like you're trying to say that Sonics are making up 8 of 15 man tourneys at least thus being guaranteed a spot. Since he has less reports than many others this is clearly not the case.

Not going to get more into it because this list is inaccurate at the moment. Arguing seems kind of pointless right now. Boo Sonic bias. On both sides. Look at dataz.

 

[cj.Shark]

truth is. only sonics are reporting their scores

 

[Sigrid Fiinikkusu]

Lol @ Naruto reference. Don't worry about this for a couple of months though since this is only about a month's worth a data. Or so I hear anyways.

 

[Noraa]

My poor lucas =[

 

[Browny]

This proves that Sonic is placing either BETTER or at LARGER tournaments than most of his competition.

QFFT

Take your pick Edresses.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Wow, people just really hate Sonic.. There were 34 or 35 entrants at Final Smash 08. Me and 2 others used Sonic. There were plenty of MK's and Snakes. All 3 Sonic's placed in the top 10 =/

 

[da K.I.D.]

truth is. only sonics are reporting their scores

man, people will say anything not to give sonic his due, kind of upsetting really...

 

[Gimpyfish62]

hey you guys know who's bad?

sonic.

this guy seems to know what he's talking about

 

[Browny]

You're not funny, we know sonic is bad, we are looking at how he fares in tournaments.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I agree Gimpy. But he's certainly good enough that it's okay. Most other people suck. Sonic MAINS are just elite and can win anyway. XD

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Hmm...

JKBUK just got the legendary triple mod combo used on him. I'll have to try that sometime.

EDIT: Wait that really cool guy a couple pages back was you Gimpyfish.

Very suspicious.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

OMG! IT WAS?!?!?!?

I knew his username couldn't be that long. I ****in' knew it.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Wow, people just really hate Sonic.. There were 34 or 35 entrants at Final Smash 08. Me and 2 others used Sonic. There were plenty of MK's and Snakes. All 3 Sonic's placed in the top 10 =/

Dude, seriously, that doesn't mean anything... and before you go saying I'm just against sonic, realize that I'm not taking any sides in this and haven't... but seriously, that doesn't mean anything, so stop getting upset when you aren't getting the reaction that you were hoping for.

 

[Ayaz18]

Idunno I think Sonic is at mid-tier status. He can become quite tricky and technical if in the right hands...........but looking at Sonic's properties, it's obvious he's low.....seriously his priority and range really do suck

I just say he's mid because i'm just that Biased...........oh well at least I admitted it

 

[da K.I.D.]

I agree Gimpy. But he's certainly good enough that it's okay. Most other people suck. Sonic MAINS are just elite and can win anyway. XD

word, our character is soooo bad, that you have to be better than mew2king to even place with sonic at a tournament.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

at a major that actually has a lot of very good players that's probably absolutely true

 

[Sinz]

2 Falco (12 top8, 12 top4, 4 top2, 1 win) - 311.4 - 4

A Rank 36.43%
3 Snake (19 top8, 16 top4, 6 top2, 4 wins) - 192.3 - 2

Just a bit confused here. Falco has more points but Snake has more of everything overall? I am lost. :D

 

[da K.I.D.]

reread the first post dude...

 

[momochuu]

Late response to the ICs vs Peach Matchup Discussion that happened a while back:

Peach beats ICs, sorry Guy Whose Name I Forgot. Too many options to shut down chaingrabs and desynchs.

 

[cj.Shark]

its funny
pit has crap range too
Its just his attacks have alot of priority and his aerials are disjointed and come out fast.

 

[M@v]

Just a bit confused here. Falco has more points but Snake has more of everything overall? I am lost. :D

The size of the tournaments comes into play too. Falco is placing better in larger tourneys. Snake is placing more numerously in smaller tourneys.

 

[Napilopez]

Well, on one note, I think Edrees is having an intelligent debate with us, so we shouldn't be rude Not saying anyone was, but I guess just as a waring.

EDIT: Deleted sooooo much cuz this thing was just humongous.

TL;DR
I don't think there is significant proof more Sonics are entering tourneys than other chars, it is more of a personal observation or opinion that can quite easily refuted with a dissonant opinion or observation. However, even if there were several Sonics participating in tourneys, very few of them are actually proficient with the character, and those who are proficient are the only ones that should matter towards representing the character anyways. You can't look at a character by anyone who plays him, they have to at least show some semblance of proficiency with said character; if you look at those who arent truly proficient as well, it would almost be as if you were siimply looking at a shadow of the actual character. Since Sonic is one of the most difficult characters to pick up and play to his potential in brawl, this becomes all the more important.

We also have no "national-level" players playing Sonic except for Anther, and he still has alot to learn about Sonic, as great as he is, so that must be taken into account when bringing up his results in cross-regional tourneys. He may in the top8 of those, but neither is he be played by the top players in said tourney.

Some notes I thought about after writing the previous stuff. If there are so many Sonic mains entering tourneys and that fact is consequentially skewing his data, then why are Sonic's results typically consistently from the same few people? If Sonic's data is skewed by more people playing him, then wouldn't we also see more random people placing with Sonic? Furthermore Edrees, had you not said most of Sonics results come from small 15 man tourneys? Then I believe some of your points contradict themselves. You say most of Sonics results come from tiny tourneys, yet also argue that there may be several Sonics entering said tourneys. Besides the fact that 15 men tournies count less, one must note that if its only 15 people in a tourney, then there cant be a gazillion other Sonic players at said tourneies. At these small tourneys, there is usually one Sonic alone. You also can't argue the point that Sonic has more placings than other low tier chars who are less popular, when he places better than other higher tier characters who are likely more popular than he is. Again, there are very few Sonics that actually represent the character accurately.

Bah, sorry for the jumbly mess this post is.

More Editness: To Ayaz, I know you play Sonic, but since I know you're actually good with him, I think you would know by now that range isn't an issue at all for Sonic, and to a slightly lesser extent neither is "priority". His problems come from not having a uber reliable kill move and/or a single or couple of overpowering/spammable moves like virtually all the better characters do.

Double Edit:

I think sometimes we go too in depth into this argument. I think that as much as we can go back and forth on the details, the big picture is that Sonic is doing well. Better than 5th worst place. A consistent #22 or something like that. He hasn't slowed down at all from there. Yea, the details matter, but these details aren't even concrete. They're just opinions and unintentionally biased observations. The numbers are there. If Sonic deserved to be so low, he would not consistently be performing so low.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Edreeses points are:

1) Sonic mains report more small tournaments


1) This may be true to some extent, but I've seen plenty of posts with small tourneys where Sonic isn't in the top 8. And small tourneys are still small tourneys, they don't count so much.

But they AREN'T. 11 compared to like 21 from ROB. He's placing higher than GaW with 5 less reports.

Sonic does NOT report more and if scrubs are playing and losing that should NOT be counted for. I'm sure there are TONS of horrible MK's entering. That doesn't discredit the ones that win. No matter HOW much people want to argue it the NUMBERS say Sonic is doing well.

 

[Napilopez]

Oh no, I agree with you. I meant to say "if it were true". I deleted that part of my post anyways I think my TL;DR version does a better job XD.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

alright fine, i'll admit defeat. I still don't think the match up is unplayable for ICs. But you've convinced me that maybe it is in Peach's favor.

But back to the original thing: Snake dominates G&W, and is still, IMO, the most asinine matchup as far as top tiers