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[Strong Badam]

light shield removal is holding in your shoulder button while plugging your controller in. you then cannot light shield.

 

[Beat!]

@Warhawk
The matches weren't recorded.

@MT
Laser patterns/timings are fairly irrelevant because you can react to lasers anyway, so as long as you're grounded you're fine (and you don't really have to jump all that much when you can PS 8/10 lasers).

As for PSing being "incredibly hard"... not really. leffen is insanely good at it and he doesn't even main Marth.

 

[JPOBS]

nevermind.

 

[ChinesePanda777]

Aww Leffen, hope you continue your analysis soon. I'm not at the point of being able to understand a lot the subtleties yet.

About Powershielding: I've really been favoring watching Ice on various vids and noticed that a lot of the time, he intentionally slows down (perhaps to bait the laser?), crouches, and powershields. May not work for everyone but I think slowing down with the intention of ultimately breaking the opponent's momentum is interesting.

 

[leffen]

Ice is, honestly, much worse than me at powershielding. He doesn't really do it on reaction and it looks like he doesn't know much of the tricks I'm using to get it to 100%.

He is a much better marth overall tho ;o


I'm leaving for Epita soon. I'll try to get some Marth vids recorded

 

[Bones0]

What do you do after powershields? I stopped being so afraid of it once I learned the high and low laser mixups (where I run under or jump over it).

 

[Tee ay eye]

Ice is, honestly, much worse than me at powershielding. He doesn't really do it on reaction and it looks like he doesn't know much of the tricks I'm using to get it to 100%.

What do you mean

 

[leffen]

hehe should I tell? ;>

its pretty easy to figure out lol, considering how marths shield is special.

basically, never try to forward dash ->powershield since your shield is super far behind you.
You can use this when it BARELY goes over you though and you'll get a powershield (people get this one sometime and then they start failing when falcos shoot low lasers)

mainly, just go look at marths shield during his different animations and use those to your advantage.

then go look at falcos laser startup frames so you're reacting to that instead of him jumping

and then theres a billion mixups out of powershield with their own little tricks and nuisances

but im not gonna do all of this for ya lol, you should fkn be experimenting this yourself.
the fact that I mastered this before anyone of you did is pretty sad tbh =/

also: I have very high successrate even with lightshield on (maybe 80%? I always use the lightshield **** but sometimes I forget LOL). Im sure that if I practiced it more I could get 100% even with lightshield available but I need it for Yoshi and I use R to lightshield anyway.

 

[Bones0]

"Hey guys, I'm probably the best in the world at powershielding. I have a bunch of tricks to make it effective."

"Like what?"

"NOT TELLING. NANA NANA NAAANAAAA!"

 

[leffen]

I did tell you stupid.

I can't really explain it more thoroughly without posting pics.
Just fkn look at marths shield and wheres hes at compared to it during different animations. You'll learn that every animation changes your timing in some way and then you need to practice that.

and again, im trying to record vids for you guys to learn off

lol helping the marth boards sure isn't rewarding at all

 

[Dr Peepee]

the only thing I am curious about is how marth's shield changes with his animations....I never even knew about that lol. I'll look at it though.

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to post that. =)

 

[clowsui]

leffen that's the story of smashboards

you give people specific information

and then they demand that you give them your brain

think about it this way tho, at least you're not giving advice in the brawl forums

 

[Niko45]

lol helping the marth boards sure isn't rewarding at all

can't argue with that

 

[ShroudedOne]

the only thing I am curious about is how marth's shield changes with his animations....I never even knew about that lol. I'll look at it though.

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to post that. =)

It's probably related to Marth's shield-to-hurtbox ratio, and how, when you're in certain animations, his hurtboxes change, and so do the ratios, and thus his powershield mechanics very slightly?

That's my best guess. I wish he'd elaborate more, though. But it's good nonetheless.

 

[mers]

I did tell you stupid.

I can't really explain it more thoroughly without posting pics.
Just fkn look at marths shield and wheres hes at compared to it during different animations. You'll learn that every animation changes your timing in some way and then you need to practice that.

and again, im trying to record vids for you guys to learn off

lol helping the marth boards sure isn't rewarding at all

here's a somewhat more specific question.

which of marth's animations are the best/easiest, in your opinion, for powershielding? now i know i shouldn't be dashing forward. should i be dashing away? standing? crouching?

 

[Tee ay eye]

then go look at falcos laser startup frames so you're reacting to that instead of him jumping

do you have this online/on your computer? or are you just using training mode in the game?

 

[knightpraetor]

70-80% without the light shield trick is about what i was going back when i practiced it...I just can't bear not having lightshield and it seems like it would be ridiculously hard to get used to sometimes shielding with L and sometimes shielding with R when you want a light shield.

 

[Beat!]

Dashing away makes powershielding easier, because it puts the shield behind you (like leffen said). Other tricks include ducking, or just standing there. Basically don't DD too much unless you've already conditioned him to not lasering, because DDing makes PSing harder.

leffen has shown a lot of the PS tricks he speaks of to me, so I know what he's talking about, but I'm still working on implementing all of it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

DDing makes PS harder? wtf? I never had trouble powershielding in DD. Maybe im just that amazing

 

[Beat!]

Only if you try to PS while dashing towards them. Dashing away makes it easier. Because, as leffen said:

basically, never try to forward dash ->powershield since your shield is super far behind you.
You can use this when it BARELY goes over you though and you'll get a powershield (people get this one sometime and then they start failing when falcos shoot low lasers)

Also, I never said it was impossible. Just harder.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Only if you try to PS while dashing towards them. Dashing away makes it easier. Because, as leffen said:




Also, I never said it was impossible. Just harder.

I actually have better success PS when I dash into the laser. I always thought that since you're holding forward, the shield would begin already tilted in that direction so you get some of the same benefit as crouch shielding.

I'm guessing you're saying it starts behind marth because of how far he's leaning forward during his run animation then?

 

[leffen]

if they shoot the laser low and you dash towards it, you CANT powershield it with marth since his and roys shield are unique. They are in the same place regardless of what animation you're in, so its waaaay behind you when you dash.

how can you guys not know this after 10 years lol

really shows how terrible and unreasonably whiny most marth players are

esp those who whine all the time about falco, often play with one and still can't powershield for **** (hi niko;D)

lol

 

[.Chipmunk.]

if they shoot the laser low and you dash towards it, you CANT powershield it with marth since his and roys shield are unique. They are in the same place regardless of what animation you're in, so its waaaay behind you when you dash.

how can you guys not know this after 10 years lol

really shows how terrible and unreasonably whiny most marth players are

esp those who whine all the time about falco, often play with one and still can't powershield for **** (hi niko;D)

lol

like a year and a half bro. I dont have AR either otherwise i'd study this crap.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Leffen reminds me of a teacher I had who loved to prove how inept his students were.

Anyway, good to know that this won't work ever. Although, wavedash -> shield hmm... not sure now.

 

[Dr Peepee]

if they shoot the laser low and you dash towards it, you CANT powershield it with marth since his and roys shield are unique. They are in the same place regardless of what animation you're in, so its waaaay behind you when you dash.

how can you guys not know this after 10 years lol

really shows how terrible and unreasonably whiny most marth players are

esp those who whine all the time about falco, often play with one and still can't powershield for **** (hi niko;D)

lol

Do you have any recommendations for testing these different shield animations? Like can I pause when I press shield during an animation and figure it out, or is that misleading in some way?

 

[leffen]

R+Pause after 1 frame and you'll pretty clearly see how the shield looks during the first frame its out

you dont need AR for this, just a tiny bit of common sense.

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, it's easy to check. Shield + pause immediately.

 

[Niko45]

(hi niko;D)

lol

Sup bro.

Somehow I manage.

Oh, and **** Falco.

 

[Dr Peepee]

R+Pause after 1 frame and you'll pretty clearly see how the shield looks during the first frame its out

you dont need AR for this, just a tiny bit of common sense.

Just making sure. Thanks!

 

[Tee ay eye]

@leffen:

Marth's powershield while walking forward is okay, right? I just looked in-game, and it looks like it's almost the same as his standing powershield. I did see the difference for dashing PS, too, so thanks for pointing that out.

Do you have any tricks for making powershields easier? For example, do you usually do powershields while running backwards? Or is the point of this knowledge just to know that dash forward powershields are bad? Additionally, do you have anything you do in particular to assist you in timing?

 

[ArcNatural]

@leffen:

Marth's powershield while walking forward is okay, right? I just looked in-game, and it looks like it's almost the same as his standing powershield. I did see the difference for dashing PS, too, so thanks for pointing that out.

Do you have any tricks for making powershields easier? For example, do you usually do powershields while running backwards? Or is the point of this knowledge just to know that dash forward powershields are bad? Additionally, do you have anything you do in particular to assist you in timing?

I'm just summarizing here and based off Zoso (another really good Powershielder).

Leffen's already stated that he uses the startup animation for falco's lasers over reacting to the lasers themselves.

Backwards is easier, so is just ducking. Standing and walking are about the same. Turn around PS is very safe but rather hard to time (IE turn around so your facing away as laser hits).

 

[knightpraetor]

just for the record, tried dash away powershield today from standing and you freaking suck at this game if you can't get > 80% powershield from neutral with room to dash backwards...honestly i feel like i can get 100...i mean you have a freaking massive barrier between you and your opponent with probably some ridiculous like 3 frame window for powershielding it (just estimating)..but yeah, I got it 100% of the time in the matches i played..that said, you don't want to always be dashing back or you will lose stage control, but if you have room and are outside range and don't dash away and take your free power shield it's just dumb...

btw thanks leffen, glad someone told me this for the first time...and I don't think it's unreasonable for marths not to know this..I don't typically pause while playing ever.

also, this seems really imbalanced leffen...but on the down side this is also the reason why people pierce marth's shield with attacks so easily, so I feel like we deserve to get something good out of it

 

[crush]

Would it be even easier if you moonwalked into a sticky walk towards them and then powersshielded?

 

[knightpraetor]

PS- i started using this to powershield normal attacks too..i mean if you have an invincible barrier behind you anyway why not

 

[Mew2King]

LOL leffen is so funny

"I DID TELL YOU STUPID"

LOOOLLLLOLOL

 

[stelzig]

I actually have better success PS when I dash into the laser. I always thought that since you're holding forward, the shield would begin already tilted in that direction so you get some of the same benefit as crouch shielding.

I also always found dashing towards and powershielding better/easier. If the low lasers thing is true though, then I guess that explains why my dashing powershields sometimes fail. I already find it easier to powershield lasers over slow projectlies so I guess me finding it easier just have to do with the projectile essentially getting faster.

Edit: It does work on standing lasers (that CPU practice, LOL) so they don't have to barely go over you at least.

Edit2: Because I like to test stuff after I post... I coincidentially have alot of trouble doing dashing powershields with marth now and can totally see why you would say the just barely above thing (paused after shielding). I did hit it though so it *is* possible. Ah, but good to know. Guess I should go for more standing powershielding when I play marth.

 

[Strong Badam]

I actually have better success PS when I dash into the laser. I always thought that since you're holding forward, the shield would begin already tilted in that direction so you get some of the same benefit as crouch shielding.

Shield tilting doesn't occur until after Powershielding would occur i.e. your shield comes up neutral then moves if you're holding a direction.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Shield tilting doesn't occur until after Powershielding would occur i.e. your shield comes up neutral then moves if you're holding a direction.

copy that, SB

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah i used to think shield tilting occurred when i dash powershielded..but i realized I was just good at timing it from ages of practice and still couldn't do anything about the low lasers...but dashing away is like perfect and free for powershielding..messing up is difficult

 

[knightpraetor]

New question:

who can marth lightshield edgehog if anyone? i heard he can do it to luigi? i thought maybe it might be possible against the marios? i was just curious