Brawl-: Released. See the new thread up top in the sticky section ^^^^

[Budget Player Cadet_]

For whatever reason, we all agreed on no more official pre-alpha releases. Seeing as the OP stuff is waaaay outdated... Eh.

 

[K.Mac]

Cadet, remember to bug Kirk about the handicap = buffer thing.

I'd also want you to bug him to give Yoshi back his air mobility, just not to the same extent. He doesn't feel right... feels sluggish.

Change to Uair is agreeable though as I said ... stopped killing at 60% and kills at 90-100% now. I miss the hitlag on the sweetspot though (could that be put back just for aesthetics, you think?)


Falcon Punch = EPIC, btw.

 

[bsltiger]

For whatever reason, we all agreed on no more official pre-alpha releases. Seeing as the OP stuff is waaaay outdated... Eh.

yea, i understand. but if you ever change your mind, hit me up, yo.

 

[camzy]

I'm just waiting for a completed beta for Brawl- now. Kind of frustrating that the OP hasn't been updated in like months.

 

[Kirk]

I do believe we are not going to be releasing anything more until we have a stable alpha, which hopefully will be soon. We're working on it, mostly just small fixes and balancing.

Please be patient...it WILL be worth the wait.

 

[Frown]

Oh? So that means every character has a moveset now?

 

[Hozu]

Last I heard, they have every character done (except maybe ZSS and Peach) so they just need to balance stuff.

 

[2-2]

Last I heard, they have every character done (except maybe ZSS and Peach) so they just need to balance stuff.

ZSS and Pit, Peach is done.

 

[camzy]

Awesome guys!

I'm eagerly waiting for that Alpha release!

 

[bsltiger]

so... we can wavedash now.
http://www.youtube.com/group/brawlminus#p/c/2KPiiDytqh_Y/0/ztZR7G5euBc

 

[Laem]

so i herd brawl- is preh awsum

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh? So that means every character has a moveset now?

Almost. Pit and ZSS are the only ones that aren't really working.

so... we can wavedash now.
http://www.youtube.com/group/brawlminus#p/c/2KPiiDytqh_Y/0/ztZR7G5euBc

Keep in mind, this is only going to be on fox James McCloud, seeing as his theme is "remember when I was top tier?". It's also not quite as polished as Shanus's, but he won't let us use his until after the P:M alpha release.

so i herd brawl- is preh awsum

YOU BETTER ****ING BELIEVE IT.

 

[Depster]

So yeah, B- is rapesauce. Just thought you'd better be aware of that BPC.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Suggestion:
You guys should make B-stages. Broken halberd sounds great.

 

[[TSON]]

i believe this is what you are looking for:

http://www.justin.tv//hawky111#r=XjqLJkk~

streaming new chars

 

[2-2]

That ain't Falco

 

[Xyless]

Just going to mention, the B- team has developed a new logo for the mod.

 

[J4pu]

I think you need to add this link to the OP, videos section
http://www.youtube.com/group/brawlminus#p/c/2KPiiDytqh_Y/0/ztZR7G5euBc

can't wait for it to be released

 

[[TSON]]

nvm

10glyph

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well so I did some very serious testing with Mario and Ike, and I must say, I REALLY like the changes for these characters.

Mario is a balanced character in this game overall, but is probably "Mid" tier from my experience fiddling around with him. He's good and can do a lot of cool things, he doesn't however excel as extremely in areas as other characters do. He's a little more limited in terms of comboing into kill moves, but his impressive shield pressure game and solid gimp game help compensate.

One thing that annoys me a bit, the hitbox for F-smash is slightly smaller than the animation, which is deceptive, but besides that, I love the change. D-air and Fireballs are Mario's best attacks in Brawl-. D-air is so ridiculously versatile, and the power buff to this move makes it considerably threatening. At around 25%-30ish percent, I can U-throw people into double fullhop D-airs for really early gimp kills off the top. D-air also makes Mario's recovery go from average to amazing. Fireballs are also awesome, probably bordering on almost too good when you consider hitstun and shieldstun in this game. Cape I think polarizes Mario's matchups a bit, gimping predictable recoveries reeealy easily. The absence of stale moves also means Mario's Up-smash is quite spammable.

Ike as of the build I'm playing is seriously amazingly awesome. There is so little commitment on QD it might as well be Wario's mobility, and the reduced lag on his aerials is just great. Was this intentional? The wind effect on F-air at low to mid percents forces a tech trap situation. Ike can now legitimately Jab cancel to B-air or F-tilt in this game. The momentum boost on U-air also REALLY helps Ike juggle people and can do some really sick stuff for approaches. I'm not completely sure yet if there are matchups he has trouble in, but as of now, I don't think this character has many noticeable weaknesses. Also, I don't understand why QD sometimes fails to initiate when you use it at point blank range.

The first hit of DDD's Jab does not hit anything, is this a glitch? Also for some strange reason, DDD is able to D-smash out of Dash.

And Luigi really should get a tonedown on mobility. Like seriously...jumping around and N-airing with the mobility this character currently has is just too broken for words. It's okay if his ground mobility remains the same, but I think this character has way too much aerial mobility.

Expect some vids in the future. I have some nice Mario vs Falcon replays saved.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The D3 glitch is old and fixed. DDD's jab will usually do around 30 damage if you catch your opponent in it thanks to a speedup and autolink angle. :V

Luigi... nuuu. His mobility is great. If anything, we'll nerf his more potent options. People love this luigi.

 

[2-2]

Luigi is great. Nothing seriously is wrong with his buffed form in Brawl -.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I just got an idea. Why not for Ganon, Charizard, Snake, D3, Dk, and Bowser, 's trip animations have a weak hitbox on their backside when the screen shakes that trips whoever 's near them?
Also, when they roll form the trip, why not put a hitbox in the center of their bodies that sends the foe sideways?

 

[Kink-Link5]

That reminds me. Bowser should make the screen shake.

With EVERY SINGLE MOVE. Currently he only does it EVERY TIME HE LANDS, INCLUDING MID DASH ATTACK AND D-THROW, but that just isn't enough I'm afraid.

 

[Gyros Kirby]

Give mr. game and watch's b-air and d-air a huge shield damage so it can break shields easy as hell! Is should to be cool if DDD's smash attacks has a huge explosion hitbox on the hammer. Even Jiggly's rest needs to have explosion effects.

 

[[TSON]]

That would look too PSA-y.

And we decided to nerf all of the auto-shield-break moves to only break 3/4s of a shield, so you can't just throw the move out and break shields, it requires planning.

(Other than Warlock punch, cause, you know... It's epic.)

 

[K.Mac]

lol. I agree with that.

I'm a little angry because, I spent about an hour trying to install the drivers for my friend's EZCam video recorder (so I could record some B- matches) and ... well, it failed. I then tried to use it on his PC as it was already installed and working ... couldn't figure out how the buff to get the audio on or the display in colour.

So I gave up. Sorry guys. ._.

I have some freaking awesome matches though, including a couple of doubles matches (One of which, Jiggz kamikaze shieldbreaks twice. TWICE. and her team still won). I'll record them with my phone (decent enough quality) and upload them just for the sake of putting stuff up.

Anyway ... BPC, I remember you ranting in skype that Pika needed buffing.

HE DOES NOT NEED BUFFING.

He is......... he is more capable of camping than Samus. I'm not joking. All he needs to do is spam thunderjolt, forcing an aerial approach by the opponent (which he can either roll away from, reverse Bair into them or away from them, or catch them with any other attack) and then resume camping.

Aerial thunderjolt into sweetspot Nair is more of an annoying finishing combo than Falco's laser into upsmash combos. I really don't think Pika needs a buff. rofl.

I also succeeded in performing 0-deaths with the nerfed Yoshi ... a lot more reliant on short stage ceilings due to the fact the Uair doesn't have so much knockback, but when done at correct percentages is possible. Harder to do though (so that's good? ) I still think that his mobility could be rebuffed a bit, because so many other characters (Wario, Luigi, Jiggz .... PEACH.) have ridiculous aerial movement and are basically impossible to predict approaches from. =/ The Uair is fine as it is, but I do miss the electric hitlag on the sweetspot. Will Kirk add that back in? I just want the hitlag. it looks epic.


....Have you done anything to Yoshi's neutral-B yet? I need to think of something to do to break that.


Finally, I remember on an earlier build of Metaknight, his Usmash was literally a 4-frame long WoP that could be spammed like no end? The current MK jumps after the Usmash, but it's still possible to mash the c-stick enough that he repeats the Usmash over and over without jumping. Is that intentional? Just wondering.

 

[[TSON]]

the mk usmash spam will always happen since usmash is JC'd.

Yoshi's neutral B is gonna get interrupt into itself as long as you're in the air...You know that tipper grab AT where you can B into B combo and pull the foe to his death? Well yeah, basically that, but always D:

And Pika needs buffing because tjolt is too broken and has to be finetuned.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

lol. I agree with that.

I'm a little angry because, I spent about an hour trying to install the drivers for my friend's EZCam video recorder (so I could record some B- matches) and ... well, it failed. I then tried to use it on his PC as it was already installed and working ... couldn't figure out how the buff to get the audio on or the display in colour.

So I gave up. Sorry guys. ._.

I have some freaking awesome matches though, including a couple of doubles matches (One of which, Jiggz kamikaze shieldbreaks twice. TWICE. and her team still won). I'll record them with my phone (decent enough quality) and upload them just for the sake of putting stuff up.

Anyway ... BPC, I remember you ranting in skype that Pika needed buffing.

HE DOES NOT NEED BUFFING.

He is......... he is more capable of camping than Samus. I'm not joking. All he needs to do is spam thunderjolt, forcing an aerial approach by the opponent (which he can either roll away from, reverse Bair into them or away from them, or catch them with any other attack) and then resume camping.

Aerial thunderjolt into sweetspot Nair is more of an annoying finishing combo than Falco's laser into upsmash combos. I really don't think Pika needs a buff. rofl.

I also succeeded in performing 0-deaths with the nerfed Yoshi ... a lot more reliant on short stage ceilings due to the fact the Uair doesn't have so much knockback, but when done at correct percentages is possible. Harder to do though (so that's good? ) I still think that his mobility could be rebuffed a bit, because so many other characters (Wario, Luigi, Jiggz .... PEACH.) have ridiculous aerial movement and are basically impossible to predict approaches from. =/ The Uair is fine as it is, but I do miss the electric hitlag on the sweetspot. Will Kirk add that back in? I just want the hitlag. it looks epic.


....Have you done anything to Yoshi's neutral-B yet? I need to think of something to do to break that.


Finally, I remember on an earlier build of Metaknight, his Usmash was literally a 4-frame long WoP that could be spammed like no end? The current MK jumps after the Usmash, but it's still possible to mash the c-stick enough that he repeats the Usmash over and over without jumping. Is that intentional? Just wondering.

The issue with pika is that he just doesn't have that much going for him other than TJolt, and has pretty lousy combos, especially since Kirk nerfed the **** out of Dair's landing. Pretty much all he does is sit around and spam TJolt, and follows up with it when it connects. Probably needs a nerf; more startup, same endlag IMO, so that it's a momentum move. Slow to start, but you can still combo out of it nicely.

MK should not be able to mash usmash. >.>

the mk usmash spam will always happen since usmash is JC'd.

Yoshi's neutral B is gonna get interrupt into itself as long as you're in the air...You know that tipper grab AT where you can B into B combo and pull the foe to his death? Well yeah, basically that, but always D:

And Pika needs buffing because tjolt is too broken and has to be finetuned.

 

[K.Mac]

the mk usmash spam will always happen since usmash is JC'd.

Yoshi's neutral B is gonna get interrupt into itself as long as you're in the air...You know that tipper grab AT where you can B into B combo and pull the foe to his death? Well yeah, basically that, but always D:

And Pika needs buffing because tjolt is too broken and has to be finetuned.

Ah. Makes sense.

Yoshicide? lol.


Btw do you guys have a list of working custom stages that work over normal stage slots (such as distant planet, 75m, spear pillar, every banned stage)? I'm still using the old snaploader codeset because it has PW's custom stage engine and I prefer most of the SSE maps over what the game normally has. I tried Tabuu's stage a while back and it wouldn't load ... didn't try any others, but just wondering if certain maps work over normal slots or whether there's a particular way to do it.

Can't find the stage thread btw. hence why I'm asking here. Need moar B- neutral / CP stages.

 

[Hozu]

Try this thread. If you want to change the stages, you'll have to match the .rel file in pf/module with the stage in pf/stage/melee. In the non-replace pack, stages 1-4, and 6 use the WiFi Waiting Room .rel file, stage 5 uses Battlefield, and the last 3 use FD (I believe). So if you want to put in a stage that goes over the WWR you'll have to replace one of custom stage 1-4 or 6. Or you could just copy the .rel file and rename it if you don't like the other 4 stages.

 

[B!squick]

Still stoked about this and are waiting for it patiently.

 

[K.Mac]

Try this thread. If you want to change the stages, you'll have to match the .rel file in pf/module with the stage in pf/stage/melee. In the non-replace pack, stages 1-4, and 6 use the WiFi Waiting Room .rel file, stage 5 uses Battlefield, and the last 3 use FD (I believe). So if you want to put in a stage that goes over the WWR you'll have to replace one of custom stage 1-4 or 6. Or you could just copy the .rel file and rename it if you don't like the other 4 stages.

Interesting. O_o

So, if I want to replace one of the normal stages with a custom stage (just going with distant planet here because I know its pac filename) then how would I do that? Let's just say I want to replace it with SSE Stadium (which replaces WWR from what I remember). Someone on Skype said they've done it, so it must be possible o.x

The latest build of Brawl- doesn't have PW's stage engine and I don't really want to replace Battlefield or FD as I like the two stages, and replacing WWR wouldn't work because I have about five or six stages that I want to add to the stage list (hotswapping = fail). Like I said, a while ago I tried it with Tabuu's stage and it just crashed. I should have tried more stages.
:/


......gay. I'm staring at the .rel files now and I've just realised that I was doing what I thought to do 100% correctly (renaming tabuu's stage to STGEARTH.pac and its related .rel file to st_earth.rel.) but it not working. O_o I'm guessing the .rel files I have for Brawl- don't work on normal slots XD (they're all WWR .rel files, I believe...)

 

[Sinz]

Cadet, I made a post in the Snake in Brawl- thread. I think you should read it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Seen and replied to.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Any idea what you guys eventually decided to do with ZSS?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, kirk made a basic build that he claimed "was not quite done".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgvekjjydxE

Keep in mind, ZSS is really hard to work with. She has the lowest file size limit-actually adding virtually anything to her .pac is almost enough to make it too big for the game to work with.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

That's terribly disapponting.

That made sense... Speed it up a good bit and dear god... what have we done... :V

Is there a full changelist for it?

Over here.

Horizontal air movement increased
Running speed slightly increased to raise range of boost grab
Jab 1 does slightly more damage and is 1.5 times the normal speed
Jab 2 is also slightly faster and does more speed.
Jab 3 has aura effect, does more damage and is faster after the hitbox is gone
Ftilt 1 hitboxes slightly bigger, has a 50% chance of tripping and does more damage(about 12%)
Ftilt 2 has electric effect added, does more damage(about 15%) and has slightly more range.
Utilt hitboxes mirrored behind him, given fire elemental, and raised knockback gain slightly
Dtilt does more damage and is 1.5 time the normal speed.
Dash attack knockback reworked to make it easier to connect to followup
Fsmash does a horizontal wave, does more damage
Usmash animation 1.5 times faster
Mortar shell does more damage and knockback
Dsmash faster
Mine does slightly more knockback
Nair 1.35 times faster
Dair 1.5 times faster
2nd and 3rd hit use the "Falco angle"
4th hit spikes Melee marth dair tipper style
AC window placed earlier to be usable.
Bair AC window placed earlier to be useful
Bair Hitboxes slightly bigger and has more knockback
Fair change pending.....
Choking speed 3 times normal speed at frame 2, hitbox moved to frame 1
Fthrow and Bthrow given more knockback base and gain to be KO throws
Dthrow now does 15% damage
Uthrow knockback reworked to lead to an utilt
Trip rolling and ledge roll animations have weak hitboxes to send foes out of Snake's space
Cypher does more damage, has a bigger hitbox, and does significantly more knockback
Cypher hitbox angle changed to send foes upwards.  
All C4 animations 1.4 times faster
C4 air detonate animation 1.7 times faster
C4 does 17% damage
Grenade pull animation is 2 times faster
Grenade summoning
Nikita launch and cancel animations 2 times faster
Nikita weak hitbox does more damage and a tad more kncokback
Nikita strong hitbox has double hitlag and does more knockback

Quoting so that you see this.

A DL for the fair tweak will be here soon.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

O.O

27 DAMAGE FTILT??? WHAAAAAAAAAT?

Other than that, most of that seems pretty legit. Grenade Summoning will probably end up going to make room for motion sensor bomb spawning, but I imagine we can probably coopt that with Kirk's stuff. I especially love the sound of that fsmash.

 

[Sinz]

O.O

27 DAMAGE FTILT??? WHAAAAAAAAAT?

Other than that, most of that seems pretty legit. Grenade Summoning will probably end up going to make room for motion sensor bomb spawning, but I imagine we can probably coopt that with Kirk's stuff. I especially love the sound of that fsmash.

I actually didn't notice the 27 damage ftilt. Its not as bad as Sonic bair. =/