Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[camelot]

How'd you find that one?

You know how Luigi "freezes" when you're holding his side-b at full charge? That's where I found it. The speed is set to 0x speed when it's fully charged.

 

[Dantarion]

Nice.
I wouldn't have thought to look there :D

 

[Shadic]

Now you just gotta do all those frame modifications to Roy, camelot.

Massive kudos on the find.

 

[camelot]

Quick question. Why was the first swing of Marth's side-b slowed down so much? Just curious, it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the change log.

 

[timothyung]

Dancing Blade (all hits): [0.750x Frame 0)
-Side Special is at 3/4 speed

It's actually only the first swing though. This change will likely drop in the next build.

And there's actually a script to do speed changes? I was wrong. I never expected that.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Has anyone else noticed that super/heavy armor on Bowser's attacks rather than just his crawl? A friend of mine and I swear that we saw Bowser jump, Fair, and completely absorb an attack by a Fox doing an aerial, though not sure which one. And at a few other non-crawling moments as well.

And one think I've thought of for awhile: has it already been tested on how well it'd work to give DK his Melee Up-B beginning strong hit hitbox back? I miss it so **** much, I probably played Melee DK for his awesome Up-B. Brawl DK doesn't have that one hard hit at the beginning, and I miss it so. =(

 

[shanus]

Good news: Footstool Meteor Cancelling now works :-)

Also might have a lead on how to re-map the footstool, not so sure on that one.

 

[timothyung]

Shield+Jump as footstool? If you're holding shield when jumping, you can perform a footstool. And most characters' AD invincibility starts on frame 4, except Marth's which starts on 5 and MK, which starts on 3. During the startup, also give the character the ability to footstool by pressing jump. If you can't perform a footstool, simply cancel the animation. This way, you won't do a whole AD if you miss the footstool, but you can't AD into a footstool either. Basically, make it like how grab works.

 

[Alphatron]

Gonna play Devil's advocate here.

Why does Ganon have his midair jump recovery with Wizkick? His onstage game was buffed and I don't see why his weak point was. Oli and Ivy don't get multiple UpB and niether does Ness. Link also recieves no aid in that field. Ganon's vbrawl recovery was reliable(in the sense that it does what an UpB is supposed to do) so why buff it? Because unless his recovery in brawl+ transition was stupidly bad or let him get gimped skillessly, I see no reason for it.

 

[timothyung]

Gonna play Devil's advocate here.

Why does Ganon have his midair jump recovery with Wizkick? His onstage game was buffed and I don't see why his weak point was. Oli and Ivy don't get multiple UpB and niether does Ness. Link also recieves no aid in that field. Ganon's vbrawl recovery was reliable(in the sense that it does what an UpB is supposed to do) so why buff it? Because unless his recovery in brawl+ transition was stupidly bad or let him get gimped skillessly, I see no reason for it.

lolwat.
Seriously, his recovery is so weak and predictable that you can just time an edgehog to get a KO. Also this makes his Wiztruck usable offstage to spike people. Only his horizontal recovery is buffed, but it's less predictable. It's still not too hard to gimp him now, just slightly harder.

Spoiler

And it's in Melee

 

[shanus]

I need someone to test this. I haven't tested these latest changes so I have -zero- idea if it will work.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a99ad2b8c7a06f936e7203eb873681297ed466db32dcaf66c95965eaa7bc68bc

It should allow you to meteor cancel a footstool after frame 4 as Fox. Remember, this will only work if the player being footstooled is fox in this test.

There should be two graphics when it occurs. The first GFX is during frames 0-4 and is the punishment window. If you are pressing jump or the B button during this time frame, you should not be able to meteor cancel (NEED CONFIRMATION).

Then a second GFX should happen frames 5-10 as a flash. This flash signifies the MC-on time in which if everything works correctly you should be able to double jump if you have one left (needs confirming), and upB during.

The elementary build of this worked yesterday when it had no deactivation window and no double jump check, so hopefully this will work. Feedback please!

 

[Shell]

Gonna play Devil's advocate here.

Why does Ganon have his midair jump recovery with Wizkick? His onstage game was buffed and I don't see why his weak point was. Oli and Ivy don't get multiple UpB and niether does Ness. Link also recieves no aid in that field. Ganon's vbrawl recovery was reliable(in the sense that it does what an UpB is supposed to do) so why buff it? Because unless his recovery in brawl+ transition was stupidly bad and got him gimped skillessly, I see no reason for it.

Looks like you answered your own question.

Additionally, Ivy, Prolimar, and Ness are completely different characters, and none of them can get combo'd (into gimps) quite as well as our man the Prince of Darkness. Furthermore Ivy actually did get a recovery boost in the form of more of a "hop" on his Up-B and Ness also got a small boost in the form of a pseudo-zap-jump, and Link also received a buff to his Up-B range... Olimar's just **** like that.

Devil's advocate can be a good way to question and re-affirm the logic of changes, but it helps to check your facts more first.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Yeah unless your as **** on-stage as Olimar you shouldn't be ridiculously easy to gimp

Spoiler

unless you're Ivysaur

.

 

[MK26]

I complained about the down-b jump recovery before, but now i realize it doesnt really protect him from gimps much. As it's a horizontal gain at the cost of vertical, it covers for his laughable air speed-fall speed ratio, but prevents you from just hitting him off the edge once and calling it a day.

Now, his jab, on the other hand...

 

[timothyung]

...is still slower than its Melee counterpart.

 

[Shadic]

Link also received a buff to his Up-B range..

Link only got one because the gravity changes severely nerfs his recovery. He still recovers worse than his VBrawl counterpart.

 

[5ive]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive
with PaintedGhost and Eugene

 

[CountKaiser]

Good news.

I got JC+ grabs to work, cooldown and everything. :D

 

[PKNintendo]

HUZZAH!!!

Good job CK.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Good news.

I got JC+ grabs to work, cooldown and everything. :D

Dowload+Video or i don't believe it. :V

 

[CountKaiser]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c8d125abced84dd0d1014a7a667fa2b4af94b99eafb21292b8eada0a1ae8665a

Try it yourself, don't have time to make a vid.

Get at me. :V

 

[cookieM0Nster]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c8d125abced84dd0d1014a7a667fa2b4af94b99eafb21292b8eada0a1ae8665a

Try it yourself, don't have time to make a vid.

Get at me. :V

sounds awesome lol, id try it if i wasnt sick of videogames lol

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What's a JC+Grab?

 

[Plum]

Jump canceled grab. The + standing for its now Brawl+ rendition.
In Melee a JC grab preserved your running momentum but used a standing grab animation. It was basically always the best option when going for grabs, so the + version has some trade offs to balance it. I haven't tried it yet, but basically its supposed to enrich the grab game and not polarize it like Melee JC grabs.

 

[Rudra]

Canceling your grab with a jump (during a dash) to do a standing grab.
Ninja, ninja, on the wall, who's the fastest one of all?

 

[grim mouser]

CK, what are the specifics of your JC+ grab? As in, wind-down time longer, etc.?

 

[CountKaiser]

Wind down is 85% normal speed.

Just try it already, and tell me if it works. :V

 

[CloneHat]

Wind down is SHORTER?

 

[leafgreen386]

Wind down is SHORTER?

No... 85% speed means .85x speed >_>

 

[CloneHat]

No... 85% speed means .85x speed >_>

...OK, that makes sense.

But wouldn't the only point of it mean to be to use during the initial dash, seeing as you can do a full-speed dash cancelled grab once you get going?

 

[leafgreen386]

...OK, that makes sense.

But wouldn't the only point of it mean to be to use during the initial dash, seeing as you can do a full-speed dash cancelled grab once you get going?

Pretty much. Yeah.

 

[Valuno]

Using it out of the initial dash is pretty useful for a lot of characters. Is this going to be included in the next build?

 

[shanus]

JC grab works well.

Also got Meteor Cancelled footstools working perfectly.

 

[CloneHat]

Sorry about the devil's advocate, buuut-

You can do dashgrabs out of your initial dash, and they (generally) have more range than standing grabs, right?

And wouldn't their duration be pretty close seeing as JC grabs have more lag?

Sorry if I got something wrong there, but I'm wondering what the advantage to JC grabs is.

 

[Valuno]

Hmm? JC grabs have more lag than dash grabs? If this code works like JC grabs do in melee then it shouldn't...

And about the range thing, I would assume it really depends on the character, and their traction. For example, Pit's dash grab range is pretty terrible, and I would assume that a JC grab would be a better option out of a dash and have more range than a dash grab.

I should really test this code out so I don't assume... xD

 

[SymphonicSage12]

the jc grabs are being altered from melee to be balanced. learn to read the thread please.

 

[Valuno]

If it's .85x speed I don't think that changes too much. The lag would still be less than most character's dash grab.

 

[CloneHat]

Valuno, they now have extra endlag.

I too need to test this to see how they stack up with dash grabs.

Maybe once I stop playing Metroid Prime Trilogy.

 

[shanus]

If it's .85x speed I don't think that changes too much. The lag would still be less than most character's dash grab.

I changed it to .6x and its very noticable lol

 

[grim mouser]

What is the advantage of JC+ over DC grabs? I know that regular dash grabs have less lag and range than JC+, but I don't see how JC+ compares to DC.