Brawl+ Beta Build (GSH1) Discussion

[Rikana]

I disagree. By making tap stick + AD a habitual thing, it just brings everything back to square one. It's like L-Canceling, in a sense.

That's exactly what I've been thinking too. Its only a matter of time before it becomes a muscle memory. You just practice the timing to get out of tumble the moment hitstun wears off and that's where the muscle memory comes in. But then it does add options which is good for competitive games.

It's just L-cancel in the air basically. Although not as useful later on the game because not everyone is used to it right now, it's still got its purposes. No one can be frame perfect so getting the non-NADT-position person may get a few frame advantages to chain some combos.

It's like L-canceling. People say its useless but I would disagree. Although it is muscle memory, people make mistakes and when an L-cancel is missed, we punish it. Same applies for NADT.

 

[GHNeko]

I dont think its completely useless and personally, I think it's fun. It opens larger room for error with the same benefits causing more players to be slightly more weary of other options when in tumble, supposedly.

I just dont think it does what its intended to do plus, imo, its nothing more than filler tech-skill like L-Canceling.

It still allows ADing to be the best option at the cost of increasing the chance of you ****ing up escaping which will happen less and less as you become more skilled.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

But doesn't that apply to pretty much everything? The more skilled one becomes, the less they'll mess up on something?

 

[Shadic]

The question is, is the tapping the control stick so you can AD arbitrary tech skill?

It's not quite L-canceling in terms of importance, (Especially if you're playing like, Luigi, that jerk.) but it does seem to be just a simple command input that gives "skilled" (Or experienced) players an advantage.

 

[GHNeko]

But doesn't that apply to pretty much everything? The more skilled one becomes, the less they'll mess up on something?

Which is why I'm saying this is kinda...pointless. :V
People want to stop you from mindlessly mashing AD to escape strings.
This will stop working when people start getting used to Tap+AD

The question is, is the tapping the control stick so you can AD arbitrary tech skill?

It's not quite L-canceling in terms of importance, (Especially if you're playing like, Luigi, that jerk.) but it does seem to be just a simple command input that gives "skilled" (Or experienced) players an advantage.

Yes. It is arbitrary. <_<

And it's like L-Canceling in a sense that the better players will be able to abuse this escape more than worse players. It's a tech skill barrier.

 

[Dan_X]

That's the problem. IT DOESNT make it more difficult in the long run. It will become second nature for players to Tap+AD at the same time defeating the purpose, like ALR vs L-Canceling. I'm ALREADY doing it like 30% of the time and I just started playing GSH TODAY. Once I get it down and make it a habit, I'll be doing it 95% of the time and NADT will not apply to me any longer.

That's the point I'm making.

You can also jump + AD as well. :/

NADT is circumvented by the ability to input 2 actions at the same time within a few frames of each other.

Ok.

I dont think its completely useless and personally, I think it's fun. It opens larger room for error with the same benefits causing more players to be slightly more weary of other options when in tumble, supposedly.

I just dont think it does what its intended to do plus, imo, its nothing more than filler tech-skill like L-Canceling.

It still allows ADing to be the best option at the cost of increasing the chance of you ****ing up escaping which will happen less and less as you become more skilled.

I see what you're saying. Like I said, I'd still rather it be there than not.

Basically what this comes down to is... we need the code fixed (perfected), granted it's not garbage now.

+1 for perfecting NADT

 

[GHNeko]

How can you perfect it? It's doing what it's supposed to do. Disabling AD during tumble.

tbh, i'd rather the AD invincibility come out a few frames later and shorten the overall invincibility ....again

 

[Shadic]

What's the length of invincibility on an airdodge in Melee? I know they're totally incomparable, but uh.. I wanna compare.

 

[Dan_X]

How can you perfect it? It's doing what it's supposed to do. Disabling AD during tumble.

tbh, i'd rather the AD invincibility come out a few frames later and shorten the overall invincibility ....again

make it a full wiggle. make it so that you can't put two inputs in at once. i don't know.

I'm fine with it as is, because it allows room for error. I'm trying to appease you, really.

 

[GHNeko]

What's the length of invincibility on an airdodge in Melee? I know they're totally incomparable, but uh.. I wanna compare.

Air Dodge Ratings - measures the amount of frames you're ALWAYS invincible to ALL attacks when you dodge in air.

---Especially for projectile attacks, Peach/Zelda dodge them longer than anyone (and 1 frame earlier than normal too), then the next best is Marth/Roy, then Falco/Fox, and then a tie for worst/normal is for the rest of the characters, who don't dodge extra long for projectiles as for normal attacks(too bad for them).

Also note that there are other factors as well, which include the fact that certain characters, like Mewtwo for example, "recover" from his dodge extremely fast. What I mean by this is that after he finished his air dodge, he can grab the ledge(if he's next to one) almost right away, while other characters, like Zelda/Peach/Fox/Falco/etc.etc.etc. don't grab the ledge right away, so they can't use it for recovering off the stage as easily as Mewtwo can. There's also how long the air dodge keeps them in air, like how Zelda/Peach's is MUCH quicker than the other characters, as when those 2 princesses air dodge they fall back down to the ground almost right away (I bet you didn't know that Zelda's Air Dodge goes FARTHER/HIGHER than Zelda's aerial jump, which is really weird)

Group A
Starting time - 3 frames (vulnerable frames 1 and 2)
Total time invincible - 17 frames (frames 3-19)
2 characters: Peach/Zelda

Group B
Starting time - 3 frames
Total time invincible - 27 frames (frames 3-29)
1 character: Bowser

Group C
Starting time - 4 frames
Total Time invincible - 26 frames (frames 4-29)
23 characters: the rest of the characters

From M2K's thread.

 

[Magus420]

Peach/Zelda are invincible on 4 not 3. The rest is accurate though.

 

[GHNeko]

LURKING AS USUAL I SEE.

:v

 

[jalued]

i think the main problem with the brawl airdodge is that it is instant... if it was given a few frames of starup, how would people take that? then tap-> AD wouldnt be so effective and people would have to judge situations accordingly

 

[JCaesar]

Tapping to get out of tumble can't be buffered while you're still in hitstun, right? If so, you can't do it frame perfectly, thus it will never be as good as mashing AD without NADT (though it will be close if you're really good).

That makes it not arbitrary tech skill, because it is not always the best option in every situation (like L-canceling). Jumping or moves like Wolf's shine or Luigi's nair will help you escape combos which tap+AD would not escape. Saving your jump is much more important with NADT than it is without it.

I have no problem with Brawl+ having a minor techskill barrier like this. If anything, we need more stuff like this. It isn't comparable to L-canceling (which we don't need).

Though it would be nice if it took just a bit more wiggling to get out of tumble...

 

[Alphatron]

We aren't playing the game with our minds. Button inputs will always be required.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I wanna ask one vital question before I go theory crafting on the NADT debate. IN GAMEPLAY it seems to have changed things quite a bit and allowed me to get away with a lot more strings, so I'm inclined to agree with JCaesar.

Can you buffer an airdodge out of hitstun? (without the NADT code of course) If so, then that's already one extremely underlooked point of this code. It would indirectly remove this buffering ability, forcing players to really know where the hitstun ends in order to escape a string.


Even if you couldn't buffer airdodges out of hitstun, it would still create a very important guessing game between strings and combos, and thus still be worthwhile to include. Sure you could make it a habit of always tapping the control stick before trying to airdodge, but what if it's NOT a string? If it's a real hitstun based combo, then you're just ruining your DI with this habit by not taking into consideration the situation that you're in. Previously you could have both the perfect DI for the combo AND an airdodge to escape the string. Now you only get one or the other, by simply forcing a simple tap of the control stick onto the other player. So this is NOT arbitrary tech skill, as there is an actual change in decision making as the result of this code. It's not that you don't always try to tap before airdodging (that much is true), it's that you no longer airdodge and DI at the same time.

First point only stands if buffering airdodges out of hitstun is true. Second point stands in either scenario.

 

[jalued]

We aren't playing the game with our minds

not yet anyway...

 

[Elefterios]

Either you have a player that can tumble out perfectly every time or you get a frustrated player on the verge of quitting the game. Frankly ,I don't understand why we need this. It doesn't add anything to the core of the game,. It only causes frustration amongst players. There's nothing worse than wanting to AD but forgetting to wiggle only to get comboed to 80%. The goal in this game is to outplay, outsmart your opponent., not having the ability of pressing 8 buttons to do a simple command.

 

[GHNeko]

Tapping to get out of tumble can't be buffered while you're still in hitstun, right? If so, you can't do it frame perfectly, thus it will never be as good as mashing AD without NADT (though it will be close if you're really good).

That makes it not arbitrary tech skill, because it is not always the best option in every situation (like L-canceling). Jumping or moves like Wolf's shine or Luigi's nair will help you escape combos which tap+AD would not escape. Saving your jump is much more important with NADT than it is without it.

I have no problem with Brawl+ having a minor techskill barrier like this. If anything, we need more stuff like this. It isn't comparable to L-canceling (which we don't need).

Though it would be nice if it took just a bit more wiggling to get out of tumble...

When is it ever good to miss an L-Cancel? When do you ever see a player purposely missed an L-Cancel? You don't in today's gameplay.

Also, the tap doesn't NEED to be buffered. It can simply be spammed. Like Airdodging.

Over time, the difference will become minuet.

Also, even during ADT. ADing was not always the best option because you could bait an ADs as well. <_<

I wanna ask one vital question before I go theory crafting on the NADT debate. IN GAMEPLAY it seems to have changed things quite a bit and allowed me to get away with a lot more strings, so I'm inclined to agree with JCaesar.

Because players havn't learned to habitually tap+AD yet. So of course you see results now.

Can you buffer an airdodge out of hitstun? (without the NADT code of course) If so, then that's already one extremely underlooked point of this code. It would indirectly remove this buffering ability, forcing players to really know where the hitstun ends in order to escape a string.

If you can buffer. That's great. This works better now. Let's hope that's the case. If not, then lol @ NADT failing MORE

Even if you couldn't buffer airdodges out of hitstun, it would still create a very important guessing game between strings and combos, and thus still be worthwhile to include. Sure you could make it a habit of always tapping the control stick before trying to airdodge, but what if it's NOT a string? If it's a real hitstun based combo, then you're just ruining your DI with this habit by not taking into consideration the situation that you're in. Previously you could have both the perfect DI for the combo AND an airdodge to escape the string. Now you only get one or the other, by simply forcing a simple tap of the control stick onto the other player. So this is NOT arbitrary tech skill, as there is an actual change in decision making as the result of this code. It's not that you don't always try to tap before airdodging (that much is true), it's that you no longer airdodge and DI at the same time.

Which is why you tap in the best direction for DI while trying to AD. Tapping in random directions is what gets you bad DI. Tapping in the direction you think you'll need for good DI is what you should be doing. If you're tapping in the best direction for DI, then if you're hit, you'll get that direction.

First point only stands if buffering airdodges out of hitstun is true. Second point stands in either scenario.

Not really. A lot of what NADT does is circumvented and practically nulled by turning how you tap and what button you press along with the tap into a habit of tapping in the right direction and spamming tap+AD to AD spam, me thinks.

EDIT: Also, you know when you're out of hitstun. You're in tumble. That's a visual cue you're out of hitstun, so its really not even a guessing game. It's more or less of a "watch for a specific animation and react in time" game. <_<

 

[shanus]

There is one situational case to miss an L-cancel:

Peach's fair. She can duck down during his landing lag and actually duck below some characters grab range.

--------------------

You also assume that your taps are going to be frame perfect Neko. Even if you spam it, you will most likely not be frame perfect. In fact, in most cases, the action of spamming it will mostly hurt you more than help as you will have to reset the joystick to neutral, and then to the side direction (not gentle, has a high threshhold for joystick offset) for it to work which will come at the penalty of frame count. (Examining the code property in tumble of fighter.pac shows this).

So yeah, your points are pretty much wrong.

You can spam it, or learn / practice the timings. Regardless, its better to weight the decision of jump, attack, or eat the possible extra frames. However, if you have more experience, you might become better at micromanaging your characters position, hitstun time, and judging these options. Just because you mash and try and air dodge doesn't mean its your sole option.

 

[JCaesar]

When is it ever good to miss an L-Cancel? When do you ever see a player purposely missed an L-Cancel? You don't in today's gameplay.

wtf are you talking about?

I was using L-canceling as an example of arbitrary, unnecessary techskill. You never want to not L-cancel. Thus it serves no purpose.

NADT is not the same thing. You don't always want to tap+AD because you have better options in some situations, especially when the timing is going to be tight.

Also, the tap doesn't NEED to be buffered. It can simply be spammed. Like Airdodging.

Over time, the difference will become minuet.

It will never be as fast as spamming AD was without NADT. The more skilled player will escape combos better. That's a good thing imo.

Also, even during ADT. ADing was not always the best option because you could bait an ADs as well. <_<

Welcome to Brawl?

We're talking about tightly timed combos/strings. Without NADT, mashing AD was extremely effective at removing strings from the game. With NADT (+ small hitstun reduction), there are more options because mashing AD isn't always the best option for ending tight strings. There are more guessing games involved and the whole combo/string system feels more fleshed out, rather than black and white like it was in 5.0.

Not really. A lot of what NADT does is circumvented and practically nulled by turning how you tap and what button you press along with the tap into a habit of tapping in the right direction and spamming tap+AD to AD spam, me thinks.

It will never be as fast as spamming AD was without NADT. The more skilled player will escape combos better. That's a good thing imo.
/copypasta

EDIT: Also, you know when you're out of hitstun. You're in tumble. That's a visual cue you're out of hitstun, so its really not even a guessing game. It's more or less of a "watch for a specific animation and react in time" game. <_<

Watching for that and reacting takes time. Precious frames which make a big difference in tight combos/strings. You never had to watch for tumble without NADT because you just mashed AD and it either worked and you escaped, or it didn't and you got hit again.

 

[ThatGuy]

But according to the changelist, hitstun was reduced in this build as well. Wouldn't that essentially give the exact same effect as we had in the last build? Why bother adding it in then? If, even with the reduced hitstun, it takes longer to get out due to NADT, you can still achieve an identical result of gameplay with ADT with a higher rate of hitstun than what we had in RC1.

We know that airdodge is not the best option for some people in some situations (i.e. Wolf Shine and Luigi Nair as mentioned before), but that doesn't mean they never used it when we had ADT! That is simply an irrelevant argument for this discussion. I mean hell, you can wiggle and then choose what you want to do anyways, it's not like as soon as you wiggle you HAVE to airdodge.

All we're saying is that comparing to RC1 and GSH, it may take a couple extra button presses, but you can achieve the exact same gameplay result. That's where the correlation with L-cancelling and Auto-L-Cancelling comes in. It is arbitrary tech skill used to instill a penalty for those who mess up on their inputs for a desired action. You are not adding any options whatsoever; you have the exact same amount of options as you did with ADT in RC1, just with a mandatory slam of the stick every now and then.

EDIT: Actually, my hitstun argument is a bit hollow, as adding more hitstun would change the game vastly in areas that don't induce tumbling.

 

[shanus]

If you said that lowering hitstun resulted in say, 2-3 less frames of time, and a perfect wiggle to air dodge would take that long in additional start-up (realistically more like 5 for a seasoned player), you could envision that the system would be more advantageous for offense than before.

However, thats simple ignoring the fact that now players will have 2-3 more frames of time to either enter an aerial, special, or jump to alter the course of the string. This net result adds a new level of prediction and variety into strings whereas before no such heightened disparity existed between ADs and attacks. Jumps will become far more prevalent encouraging the attacker to predict and bait a jump, etc.

The same result would be achievable if say, the start-up of an air dodge was increased. However, this would discourage other forms of utilizing an AD, as well as not encouraging more micromanagement on behalf of the player (imagine a day where you couldn't spam a button!).

Additionally, your point about spamming wiggle and then do your option of choice is not valid due to my post above about how spamming wiggling can cost you frames (unless when you spam wiggle and have the speed to go to neutral and back - akin to having the techincal skill to always perfect moonwalk in melee - frame 1 one direction, frame 2 the exact opposite without it registering your neutral input)

 

[JCaesar]

It does add new options though. With reduced hitstun, you can jump or shine or nair sooner than you could before. They are all more effective relative to ADing with NADT. That was the entire point of this change. It makes combos less black and white, because you have more solid choices.

Edit: dammit Shanus

Though I still think one more essential change is to increase ugrav on most characters. It would keep the same combos that were in RC1 (maybe even create a few new ones), but make the timing tighter and make them a little more challenging to pull off, and make the game feel faster.

 

[Alphatron]

If characters are still living to 150%+, the game won't truly feel that fast.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

I don't mind characters living to 150%+. When I think of speed I think of the speed of gameplay not the speed of dying.

Honestly, and I might get flamed for this but ... what is the problem with EZ Mode? Technically ALR is kind of like EZ mode. We could have had L canceling, but instead someone said "hey, people are doing this anyway, lets just make it automatic."

I look at NADT the same way. Yes, sometimes, SOMETIMES there are better options but its very rare, and those options could be taken if you could air dodge during tumble anyway, and were taken when you could air dodge during tumble. In fact, the only thing that NADT does IMHO is force you to work harder for your AD ... which ... kind of sucks.

Personally, I don't have a problem with EZ Mode. A well designed game should be simple to learn and hard to master. Melee was not simple to learn. Sure you got smashes and recoveries and blah really quick, but you only got into real playing when you learned L canceling and SFFLing and whatnot and that was difficult. Then once you picked up those skills it was a whole OTHER problem to master them.

I like the trend that Brawl+ has set with ALR. It keeps us from jumping through hoops that we would be doing anyway. Hell, I might be radical enough to say remove wiggling to get out of tumble all together. Just make every character recover from tumble at an avergae speed based on how quick you can get out by wiggling. I am fairly certian there is never a reason to not wiggle out of tumble.

I'd rather be focused on playing the game rather than inputting arbitrary button commands that allow me to play the game in the first place.

 

[GHNeko]

NADT doesnt add new options. It just shifts some of the importance and potency of AD with ADT to other options that were always there but were barely used. <_>

Nothing new is added except a layer of artificial difficulty. You have the same options as before.

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

NADT doesnt add new options. It just shifts some of the importance and potency of AD with ADT to other options that were always there but were barely used. <_>

Then by that logic, it already accomplishes something interesting by making more options valid, even if it doesn't actually add new ones.

NADT is like recoverable stun/stagger. Sure there's a generic BnB combo, but watch out for the time to break the stun/tumble or you're gonna eat a reset/even longer string. People were complaining about the fact that longer hitstun = passivity for the player on the receiving end of the combo/string. If they have to pay more attention to this, that problem's solved.

 

[GHNeko]

My issue with it is that it doesn't do the job well. It does it. But not well. I think its nigh pointless.

I'm not saying it doesn't work.

Of course it's having an effect now, but as time goes on. I predict will have less and less of an effect, bringing us back to where we started. But that's just me.

If it doesn't, then I'm wrong. whoohoo, I'm wrong. Brawl+ is better for it.

If it does, then........lol.

 

[leafgreen386]

NADT doesnt add new options. It just shifts some of the importance and potency of AD with ADT to other options that were always there but were barely used. <_>

Nothing new is added except a layer of artificial difficulty. You have the same options as before.

The options given are the same, however, their relative effectiveness is not. That's the difference.

Also, @RPG: We can't make characters automatically exit the tumble, since that would mess up teching. Not exiting the tumble can actually be advantageous sometimes.

 

[GHNeko]

I don't think the change in effectiveness is that different atm. :\

 

[Bandit]

Of course it's having an effect now, but as time goes on. I predict will have less and less of an effect, bringing us back to where we started. But that's just me.

If it doesn't, then I'm wrong. whoohoo, I'm wrong. Brawl+ is better for it.

If it does, then........lol.

All this ranting and raving over something you just started playing (by your own admission) and are simply trying to predict how it will affect the game.

Instead of theory crafting the whole thing, why don't you actually see how it plays out? Otherwise, this is just nonsensical mudslinging taking up space that we can talk about things that actually matter.

 

[Dan_X]

Tapping to get out of tumble can't be buffered while you're still in hitstun, right? If so, you can't do it frame perfectly, thus it will never be as good as mashing AD without NADT (though it will be close if you're really good).

That makes it not arbitrary tech skill, because it is not always the best option in every situation (like L-canceling). Jumping or moves like Wolf's shine or Luigi's nair will help you escape combos which tap+AD would not escape. Saving your jump is much more important with NADT than it is without it.

I have no problem with Brawl+ having a minor techskill barrier like this. If anything, we need more stuff like this. It isn't comparable to L-canceling (which we don't need).

Though it would be nice if it took just a bit more wiggling to get out of tumble...

I agree.

I wanna ask one vital question before I go theory crafting on the NADT debate. IN GAMEPLAY it seems to have changed things quite a bit and allowed me to get away with a lot more strings, so I'm inclined to agree with JCaesar.

Can you buffer an airdodge out of hitstun? (without the NADT code of course) If so, then that's already one extremely underlooked point of this code. It would indirectly remove this buffering ability, forcing players to really know where the hitstun ends in order to escape a string.


Even if you couldn't buffer airdodges out of hitstun, it would still create a very important guessing game between strings and combos, and thus still be worthwhile to include. Sure you could make it a habit of always tapping the control stick before trying to airdodge, but what if it's NOT a string? If it's a real hitstun based combo, then you're just ruining your DI with this habit by not taking into consideration the situation that you're in. Previously you could have both the perfect DI for the combo AND an airdodge to escape the string. Now you only get one or the other, by simply forcing a simple tap of the control stick onto the other player. So this is NOT arbitrary tech skill, as there is an actual change in decision making as the result of this code. It's not that you don't always try to tap before airdodging (that much is true), it's that you no longer airdodge and DI at the same time.

First point only stands if buffering airdodges out of hitstun is true. Second point stands in either scenario.

This...

Either you have a player that can tumble out perfectly every time or you get a frustrated player on the verge of quitting the game. Frankly ,I don't understand why we need this. It doesn't add anything to the core of the game,. It only causes frustration amongst players. There's nothing worse than wanting to AD but forgetting to wiggle only to get comboed to 80%. The goal in this game is to outplay, outsmart your opponent., not having the ability of pressing 8 buttons to do a simple command.

It does add something to the game though. It makes it more difficult to AD. AD was to easy, you could just spam AD DI and everything was just fine. This is stupid and shallow. It's easy and mindless. God forbid you have to think through some aspect of Brawl+, right?

The effects of NADT are obvious, even if only because it's new. The fact that it becomes more thoughtful and difficult to AD adds a ton to the string game. It's simple. If you messed up you get trapped in the string longer. You could also mess up your DI. Neko, as you said you have to watch for the animation, that's already enough reason right off the bat. You can't always be frame perfect. You have to do one more thing than you did before... Pay attention to an animation... It's not as pointless as you make it out to be.

It's so obvious that it effects gameplay. That only should give it merit. Even if people get more skilled at NADT who cares? It makes a deeper game. There's nothing wrong with this. It's not a pointless tech barrier as it legit adds to gameplay. It adds a switchup to the combo/string game... for in the event that the enemy messes up NADT the string can continue. Without NADT the enem spams AD and DIs and escapes the string at the same point each time.

Really guys... For those of you who've been playing Brawl+ from the beginning I don't understand how you can't see the positive that NADT has brought tothe game, especially the string game. The fact that people will get better at NADT is irrelevant. Good for them, skill should be rewarded.

@Shanus: I also agree with our points.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey. That's theorycrafting for you.

 

[Willz]

Will the European version of B+ ever get updated....

 

[GHNeko]

We have no one to code for PAL. Get us a PAL coder/porter and we'll get you B+.

 

[Dan_X]

All this ranting and raving over something you just started playing (by your own admission) and are simply trying to predict how it will affect the game.

Instead of theory crafting the whole thing, why don't you actually see how it plays out? Otherwise, this is just nonsensical mudslinging taking up space that we can talk about things that actually matter.

Exactly, let's stop theorycrafting what could happen. That's pointless, and as you said nonsensical. Based on hard facts (gameplay with NADT as we see it now) NADT unquestionably adds to the game. It is exciting, really. I know I mess up my DI with NADT, I need to practice more. It's hard to recognize when you're out of hitstun. That's a good thing though. If I'm messing up I deserve to be kept in a string longer. Conversely, I deserve to keep an enemy in a string if he messes up. Before there was no chance to mess up. That depth was lacking entirely. Instead that opponent could just spam AD and there ya go... Free of the string, talk about variety in the string game, right? You can't buffer the tilt like you can the AD (I don't think) as such, the fastest you can tilt and AD is to wait for hitstun. Hitstun varie upon damage attack, etc.. So it's not a consistant entity. You can't always know when hitstun will end. As such, you will always have room to mess up even if you are good at it.

/topic of discussion. NADT stays.

 

[Willz]

We have no one to code for PAL. Get us a PAL coder/porter and we'll get you B+.

Almas should do it :'(

 

[GHNeko]

Almas is busy as well. :/

JP is lucky that they have an active coder.

 

[Revven]

If characters are still living to 150%+, the game won't truly feel that fast.

This set doesn't have the adequate physics for some characters we want to have... fixing the physics WOULD fix this problem, it's been brought up before already.