Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[_Phloat_]

Hylian, he said "play", not get violently ********* in front of his peers.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, he said "play", not get violently ********* in front of his peers.

LOL It's ok I'll play random XD.


I almost never play GW in friendlies unless someone asks to play it or unless I'm getting owned.

So basically only when people ask .

 

[K 2]

Texas is way to far from where I live. I might go there in a few years once I can drive, but until then, I won't be able to stray out of stage.

 

[pockyD]

i beat hylian in melee

i might be the best

 

[prOAPC]

is there a vid where a G&W uses that donwB break in a real fight?

 

[zaf]

can someone link me to the thread which has the in depth list of all the chars that can
be dsmashed after a dthrow

 

[Gates]

It's in Omegablackmage's guide.

 

[jog]

can someone link me to the thread which has the in depth list of all the chars that can
be dsmashed after a dthrow

just use d-tilt after d-throw, it hits the whole cast. or tech chase and hit with up smash

 

[pockyD]

dtilt is not a move you WANT to hit with; it's just a move that's easy to hit with

if you can land dsmash, you'd definitely rather do that

 

[tRoll King]

I've been starting to learn G&W and trying to develop a decent edge game. So what I normally do is SH or FH frying pan and then spam d-tilt or chase them and up-b (depending on their position, of course). Are these good or bad habits to develop? I want to rid myself of as many bad habits as I can before I start to get too in depth with G&W. (He may very well be my new main FTW!)

 

[_Phloat_]

Fair is another good option, especially against recoveries that are easier to intercept..

Ledgehops are good for damage racking too.

More specific characters please?

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

frying pan is bad. terrible. worst projectile in the game. never use it.

 

[Cubone]

Seems like a popular habit is rolling quite a bit. With G&W you should hardly have to, up b instead. I've seen people dair (key) straight to their death too... on top of all that, learn to mix it up. G&W is predictable to begin with and if you aren't trying kind of hard all your moves can be read.

JKBUK, I really don't agree with that. The pan does have its -limited- uses. I throw out a food or two to approach, it can rack damage somewhat if someone approaches from the wrong angle since the food traps them, and some characters (DK for instance) just can't really get past it. Ohhhhh and ledgeguarding sometimes too (I try to use it against mk from the stage usually so I don't get SL'ed or w/e) Usually theres a better option but it is a decent way to mix things up.

 

[Hawk.]

G&W ftw!!!

 

[tRoll King]

More specific characters please?

My main problems are Diddy Kong, Peach, and other G&W's.

Edit: And possibly even Ganondorf.... 'dies on the inside'

 

[Daimonster]

Ok, I just finished reading this entire thread. Now I have a question.

What's a solid way to edgeguard? I can cover their options recovering onto the platform aka "high."
However, I have a problem edgeguarding when the opponent tries to recover via ledge aka "low." I have some ideas such as full hop b.air > reversal b-sticked chef > f.air > 2nd jump f.air > up.b (3rd jump). Anybody else have any solid edgeguards?

Against Ness, lucas etc those are easy. However characters like Marth, MK, RoB and kirby...some characters with better recoveries are the ones that give me problems.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

JKBUK, I really don't agree with that. The pan does have its -limited- uses. I throw out a food or two to approach, it can rack damage somewhat if someone approaches from the wrong angle since the food traps them, and some characters (DK for instance) just can't really get past it. Ohhhhh and ledgeguarding sometimes too (I try to use it against mk from the stage usually so I don't get SL'ed or w/e) Usually theres a better option but it is a decent way to mix things up.

Food very rarely traps unless the person doesn't know what they're doing. A smart player won't run directly into food, they'll either use a long range attack, spam their own projectile, or jump over and hit you from behind and laugh at you for using that stupid move. And even if you are spaced enough, they'll wait for it to fall. You can't bacon camp. Although I could see it working on DK, but that matchup isn't that hard anyways, i wouldn't waste it using bacon.

And bacon is terrible to use over the ledge. You can't use it too far from the ledge, and if you're too close, your opponents just going to recover, roll, and hit you. Edge guarding with bacon wouldn't work against: MK, snake, d3, falco, wolf, marth, etc. Anyone that can get somewhere fast/has a sweetspot you're just asking to be hit.

Bacon used to work well, back when the game first came out. It used to really mess with people, and yeah, would cause weird hits. But now, its too easy to punish, too easy to get around, and just overall a godawful move. Even the pan itself doesn't do enough. I'd much rather jab mix up.

 

[A2ZOMG]

My main problems are Diddy Kong, Peach, and other G&W's.

Edit: And possibly even Ganondorf.... 'dies on the inside'

Diddy Kong, keep control of his Bananas. At all costs. As long as you are holding a Banana, you have some pretty **** good options. Glidetoss -> anything is ridiculous with G&W. If Diddy tries to knock you offstage with a KO move, you can Bucket Brake easily.

Peach, Up-B out of shield if she does float D-air. D-tilt outranges most of her attacks pretty solidly. U-smash can outprioritize her D-air with good timing. I dunno, I don't play this matchup enough though.

Other G&Ws, you only have four attacks. B-air, F-air, Up-B, and D-air. Seriously.

Vs Ganondorf, space B-airs so that he can't get inside your range with autocanceled D-airs or Flame Chokes. Simple matchup really. Just requires really **** good spacing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

My main problems are Diddy Kong, Peach, and other G&W's.

Edit: And possibly even Ganondorf.... 'dies on the inside'

Diddy Kong, keep control of his Bananas. At all costs. As long as you are holding a Banana, you have some pretty **** good options. Glidetoss -> anything is ridiculous with G&W. If Diddy tries to knock you offstage with a KO move, you can Bucket Brake easily.

Peach, Up-B out of shield if she does float D-air. D-tilt outranges most of her attacks pretty solidly. U-smash can outprioritize her D-air with good timing. I dunno, I don't play this matchup enough though.

Other G&Ws, you only have four attacks. B-air, F-air, Up-B, and D-air. Seriously. G&W dittos just suck.

Vs Ganondorf, space B-airs so that he can't get inside your range with autocanceled D-airs or Flame Chokes. Simple matchup really. Just requires really **** good spacing. Btw, don't feel bad. Ganondorf is G&W's worst low tier matchup. It's only 6/4 in G&W's favor. I know this by maining both G&W and Ganondorf.

 

[gameandwatchmewin]

In omegablack's g&w guide he said something like,

" if you do your up b before using your double jump, you can jump again in the air after you up b."

I copied and pasted that. Why is he lying? Has anyone done this beside getting lucky after hitting a ledge?

 

[pockyD]

you can do it if you cancel the up-b at its peak with an aerial... i don't know if there are other ways to ensure you have the jump, but there's at least one way

 

[gameandwatchmewin]

Thanks a trillion.
It seems like there's a lot more to it. it always works straight off the up-b, but if you do one jump then up-b, there seems to be a timing to it.
I'm funna make a guide when i get back from publix.(its a grocery store in the south, i'm funna work there).
If anyone else wants to do the guide that's fine, but it will be done.

I hate lucario, and ness. <---thats my sig,
Right there ^

 

[Flamingo]

In omegablack's g&w guide he said something like,

" if you do your up b before using your double jump, you can jump again in the air after you up b."

I copied and pasted that. Why is he lying? Has anyone done this beside getting lucky after hitting a ledge?

Thats pretty interesting, I didnt know that

 

[pockyD]

Thanks a trillion.
It seems like there's a lot more to it. it always works straight off the up-b, but if you do one jump then up-b, there seems to be a timing to it.

if you have tap jump on, you're probably accidentally using your double jump immediately before the up-b

up-b out of your grounded jump should still leave you with your double jump

 

[K@0S]

That second jump is very situational since you will almost allways touch the ground before you can use it (it can be useful for edgeguarding with up b btw).

 

[Daimonster]

I'm guessing that nobody here edgeguards with g&w. Off the main platform that is.

 

[pockyD]

why would you guess that

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I'm guessing that nobody here edgeguards with g&w. Off the main platform that is.

how I edgeguard: Stand over the ledge and charge a smash. Usually not up, either forward or down. Tends to work a bit. Either that or down tilt the ledge.

 

[Daimonster]

why would you guess that

Not many responses to my question regarding edgeguarding.

how I edgeguard: Stand over the ledge and charge a smash. Usually not up, either forward or down. Tends to work a bit. Either that or down tilt the ledge.

Thanks for the tip. Does the d.smash extend below g&w in order to hit the opponent?

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Not many responses to my question regarding edgeguarding.



Thanks for the tip. Does the d.smash extend below g&w in order to hit the opponent?

erm, i believe so... but I can't be sure about the hitbox.

It also sends then at a great trajectory, so theres that.

 

[pockyD]

just get out there and fair if they're way off, or maybe dair if they're close

honestly though, aggressive edgeguarding just isn't super effective in brawl against a lot of characters, and a lot of times, you're better off conceding the edge and trying to punish them when they get off of it

autosweetspot kills most conventional edgeguarding from the stage =\

 

[K 2]

Edgeguarding isn't always trying to kill/gimp your opponent. It's free damage you can rack up, since your opponent has few options to defend him/herself with.

Whether you should use aggressive edgeguarding or not depends on your opponent. If they are MK or any other character with a good recovery with fast/high prioirty aerials, its better to play it safe and do onstage edgeguarding, but if they have poor recoveries or few aerial options, its better to do offstage edgeguarding.

 

[Daimonster]

Thanks K2. I'll keep that in mind. So in general...

On stage=d.tilt pressure and d.smash/f.smash the ledge jump/stand/roll options.
Off stage=try to bait an air dodge into f.air or auto sweetspot the 3rd jump. Got it.

 

[K 2]

Don't forget about chef when ledgeguarding. If you stand at the right distance, the frying pan will hit them if they roll, the food will hit them if they do attack up, normal getup, or jump (maybe, it depends on the random trajectories of the pieces of food). That severely limits your opponents options and frustrates them a lot... ^_^

 

[Daimonster]

I try to limit the use of chef due to the buffered chef glitch (if I'm not mistaken). In addition, I believe G&W has a better aerial moveset that shouldn't be limited to main platform usage. I've been trying to bait airdodges into d.air spikes. If the attempt fails...then I can then resort to d.tilt +smashing the ledge in attempt to get them to jump.

 

[DMG]

Use Upb Offstage for edgeguarding, works wonders and gives you invincibility frames for extra protection against attacks. Nair works well too since it usually either forces them to airdodge and get hit afterwards or they get hit by the initial Nair.

Bair for Edgeguarding is kinda Iffy, Maybe if you intercept their DJ and purposefully miss with the last hitbox, otherwise they probably won't really be phased by it.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Don't forget about chef when ledgeguarding. If you stand at the right distance, the frying pan will hit them if they roll, the food will hit them if they do attack up, normal getup, or jump (maybe, it depends on the random trajectories of the pieces of food). That severely limits your opponents options and frustrates them a lot... ^_^

no no no no no! chef is the worst move you could use in that situation. as someone said earlier, you're much better off punishing your opponent when they try to get off the ledge. Bacon is terrible, why doesn't anyone believe me when I say that? I feel like I'm on the wolf boards, listening to how "nair is good"

 

[Neb]

Not everyone plays the same.

/rant

 

[Daimonster]

I think Neb makes a very good point. Jumpman (a wolf player from TX and #1 every season on GB) uses n.air from time to time in order to setup shield pressure crossups. He doesn't use the move every 4 moves...however he does incorporate it on average of every 14th move. I believe by adding this in, he is keeping in mind of the 9 move refresh list. Doing certain moves outa G&W's moveset should be used for % racking purposes, KO purposes and move refreshing purposes.

As you can see there are many reasons to use certain moves. I'm beginning to see that landing f.air off the ledge is an incredibly hard task. If the move doesn't sweetspot...then you just racked up a small % of damage and placed them on the ledge. There isn't a single move that I'd rather hit my opponent off the ledge than d.air. That brings us to the main platform. Perhaps it is a better idea to edgeguard from the main platform. Instead of waiting for the opponent to grab the ledge and begin d.tilt/d.smash/f.smash/react to jump > n.air/ etc. Using chef in the attempt to hit the opponent so that our better moves are refreshened is a very good idea in the overall game plan.

 

[K@0S]

I tested Chef for ledgeguarding recently, it works very well with dtilt and fair especially against big characters, if they jump -> fair, if they do anything else -> dtilt (if they aren't already back on the ledge). I start to do it more now.