Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[DEHF]

An unsafe up b would be using it when it's not safe...In other words in a situation where falco will easily intercept.

It doesn't really matter if they just 'fall'. They're going to (or should) land on the stage regardless. A bit more percent isn't a kill, so it's really just your slightly above average edgeguard. Lasers and reflectors aren't huge damage rackers. You're usage of the word, 'almost always' is the same as saying 'not all the time'. Meaning it can be a bit of luck to it. Do we really want to rely on that? Is this slightly luck based option really something that is used to sway the matchup slightly?

Reflector isn't amazing. High lag and very little damage. don't kid yourself </3

In any case, we aren't going to be getting kills from our edgeguard options on Ice Climbers unless they're at say 130+ percent for an Fsmash or something. If they're dying below that it's because they've chosen the wrong recovery method.

You're saying all this as though we can't knock them further offstage with bair or something, ICs don't have many options offstage. The only thing they can do is IC block once, then nair, fair, or air dodge which isn't great to protect them if you're bairing them further offstage.

You wouldn't go for something just because there's a chance it won't work? The reward is very worth it, especially if it means you might gimp them and there's no risk to it. Even them, the it's very rare that it happens, this has only happened once in the many times that I've lasered an IC's side b.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Don't forget the squall hammer (SideB). With both characters they get added height making it a reasonable method of recovery since I believe it has enough range to it to beat out Bair or at the very least trade hits.

 

[DEHF]

If you a do a rising bair so that the bair always hit below ICs that will never happen.

 

[swordsaint]

Well the Ice climbers shouldn't use Squall Hammer that high above you anyway.

 

[Bloodcross]

Or you can use MK

 

[DEHF]

LOL Bloodcross is right

 

[AllyKnight]

LOL Bloodcross is right

ima 0-60 death you watch out yo.

 

[SSSnake]

ima 0-60 death you watch out yo.

i dont get it lol...

 

[mars16]

How do you pull off Falco's: Down grab, Dash atk, Up smash combo?

 

[Denzi]

How do you pull off Falco's: Down grab, Dash atk, Up smash combo?

Well you would down throw, and then Gatling combo (dash attack up smash) which is either done by dashing and hitting the Cstick down then up or by dashing and hitting down on the cstick and then up and Z.

Grab -> Dthrow -> Dash -> C-Stick Down -> Up + Z.

 

[Brickbox]

What's the best way to punish foxes fair boost jump when he is using it directly below the edge

 

[Still Alive]

Can South Americans SHDL?

 

[Denzi]

What's the best way to punish foxes fair boost jump when he is using it directly below the edge

I'd take a guess at runoff back air.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'd take a guess at runoff back air.

Why is every situation resolved by Bair?

 

[Brickbox]

I'd take a guess at runoff back air.

Any other options that don't involve getting behind him?

Getting behind him doesn't seem safe IMO.....but you guys are the experts

 

[Denzi]

Any other options that don't involve getting behind him?

Getting behind him doesn't seem safe IMO.....but you guys are the experts

Well if I understand the situation correctly, he should be right below the ledge heading upwards. a runoff bair would send him right toward/underneath the stage for a potential stage spike. I don't see how that's necessarily "getting behind him" or even how being behind Fox is a problem in the first place (utilt maybe?).

Anyway, if I have it wrong let me know, but otherwise I'm sticking with my answer.

 

[Brickbox]

I don't see how that's necessarily "getting behind him"

If fox is facing toward the stage trying to recover and you try to runoff bair him falco's leg would be hitting foxes back...that's what I mean by "behind him"

I'll try out your advice thanks

 

[Denzi]

If fox is facing toward the stage trying to recover and you try to runoff bair him falco's leg would be hitting foxes back...that's what I mean by "behind him"

Right I just don't see how that's a problem, as it completely avoids the hitbox of Fox's Fair and sets you up for a potential gimp.

 

[exdia_16]

i lost to a D3 this weekend he knew how to play against falco so wat do i do if he knows how to play against me?(i would like dehf to answer if he can.)xD

 

[Denzi]

i lost to a D3 this weekend he knew how to play against falco so wat do i do if he knows how to play against me?(i would like dehf to answer if he can.)xD

Well I'm no Larry, but I have a friend who's a D3 main so I know the matchup decently well anyway.

Basically we have the advantage because we have the CG (don't force it though), he's a huge target for lasers, and we outspeed him in the air and on the ground.

The chaingrab is a good 60-80% by itself. We get an extra grab before the spike because of his weight, and then edgeguard (or at least an aerial through his super armor) tacks on extra damage + a KO possibility. After CG %s you can Dthrow -> Jab for more potential followups.

Because of how effective our lasers are in this matchup, it's pretty much possible to just camp him (not necessary at all however). Just make sure you're careful with the timing and placement of your phantasms, because he can shield and punish with his ridiculous grab range, or just Utilt you out of it at kill %s. Same thing applies for recovery, just mix up going for the stage and the ledge.

On the ground we win out pretty clearly. Jab is a must use/abuse in this matchup, as Dedede doesn't have anything that can compete with it. You can use double jab cancels into themselves/ftilt/grab/etc, and even just full jab combo because of D3's hugeness. The only thing you have to watch out for is Ftilt, because it outranges everything we have. At that distance and farther you should be lasering, just make sure he doesn't catch you on landing or anything.

In the air is where we need to be careful. His back air is quite obviously absurd, and his other aerials are nothing to scoff at either. Fullhop Dair can beat out a lot of our ground options and it has little end lag, making it hard to punish. If he hits shield I would suggest rolling and then coming in from the side with an aerial. If you get caught in it you should be able to SDI + aerial him. His Uair is pretty similar to his Dair, and I'm pretty sure it beats our Dair, so your best bet is to airdodge through it.

Even though he has better air game than we do, it's still possible to catch him in juggle setups (usually started off by dair or utilt). You basically just have to be smart and know what he's going to do, and know what aerials to use. Our best overall aerial in this matchup is probably nair, as it outspeeds all of D3's aerials and land cancels into things like jab.

In terms of killing, it isn't uncommon for D3 to live to crazy high percents, but it doesn't matter, as we can basically sit back and laser until we get an opening for the kill. From D3, you need to watch out for utilt and back air mainly, as his other kill moves are easier to see coming.

Finally, if you're having any sort of problems getting techchased, you can just techroll backwards and that's to fast for D3 to do anything about it. Just be careful when he dthrows you near the ledge so you don't get caught in the dsmash trap.

 

[swordsaint]

I don't believe lasers to be as effective as you think on D3 Denzi.

D3's run speed is better than you'd expect and paired with his grab range, it makes punishing SHDL's a fairly consistent and reasonable choice. He can run under the first laser (yes D3 is short enough to do this) and shield the second for a grab.

So laser a bit, but mostly single lasers. SHDL should only be a mix up, especially when you think they might jump. You probably meant this when you said lasers, but I think we should clarify that is all.

Everything else you said I completely agree with. Jabs and nair are easily our best moves in this matchup outside of chain grab percent.

(BTW, I think reflector is longer than D3's Ftilt, could be wrong though.)

Anywho though, don't force the kill on D3 despite him living forever. Play patient and wait for the bair/uair/dair kills on recovery. Trying to force the kill on D3 or any character really will really just result in you losing your cool and losing the match.

Also, a good idea is to deliberately hit D3 in his super armour. Extra percent if you can hit him again.

---------------------

I have a random lesser question. Is there a way to apply a single font colour to everything you write without having to add it to every post? It's the only reason I don't write in another colour. Cbf doing it every post.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

DeDeDe isn't actually THAT bad against Falco. It's like 60:40. It's not any worse than any other disadvantaged matchup, really. If the DeDeDe knows how to play Falco, it can definitely be a challenge.

He can sometimes grab Falco out of jab-grab setups at certain percents and he also makes it through lasers fairly well because of his huge shield. He can tech chase and b-throw you to kill percent in a few good reads, and if he throws you off-stage he can keep you there by reading your recovery and kill with b-air or uptilt.

It's definitely 60:40 Falco's favor, but people who say it's an "auto-win" will be sorrily mistaken when they fight a DeDeDe who knows the matchup.



Laser, Phantasm, Jab, CG if you get it... just make sure he's at ~200% before you even try to kill him.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Here is what I would advise. To put it simply, never try to kill DDD when he is grounded. That I believe is the best piece of advice one could ever get when facing DDD.

If you ignore trying to kill DDD on the ground, then it's a very easy manner to rack up damage on him using jab, AAA, grabs, lasers, phantasm, etc. all the sorts of moves DDD cannot punish very easily. It is when you start trying to get aggresive that DDD will punish you by grabbing you first, then hurl you offstage into an aggresive edgeguard.

Anyway, with that method you will find DDD gets airborn quiet often when you rack up enough damage that simple moves like phantasm send DDD airborn fairly high into the air. From there, I would say it's a simple matter of waiting for the right chance to finish him off with Bair/Uair or an upsmash attempt at DDDs landing.

But yeah, no SHDL I would say onstage if you are gettng punished for it quiet easily. Resort to SHs, read the situation and feel if it is safe to get away with a laser if not, you could easily airdodge, Nair, or jump to safety.

I have a random lesser question. Is there a way to apply a single font colour to everything you write without having to add it to every post? It's the only reason I don't write in another colour. Cbf doing it every post.

Sorry, you have to do it manually. Really, it's not that bad. Once you get into the habit of doing it you only spend like an extra 5 seconds to add color. You just highlight everything, go up to the color menu, select a color and your done.

 

[DEHF]

i lost to a D3 this weekend he knew how to play against falco so wat do i do if he knows how to play against me?(i would like dehf to answer if he can.)xD

Beginning of the match DDD is going to try to avoid the chain grab, if he doesn't it's pretty much a 0-50+.

Most DDD players will approach with shield in order to land a grab. Most DDD players won't exepect their opponent to go for a grab, so walking up to DDD and grabbing them is a great mindgame. You could also start your full jab a little early when DDD is slightly out of range to grab you, only do this if you see DDD running at you. DDD doesn't have a lot of good punishes for full jab so you can abuse it.

If you ever have a DDD offstage, pressure him with bairs and lasers to use his up b. If DDD does up b he should almost always be put in a bad situations. If he does up b on stage you can land an aerial when has super armor, then land another aerial or smash on him. If the DDD tries to up b close to the edge you can grab him out of it and grab release him, if he has no jumps he's in a horrible situation since his only choice is to up b again.

Be careful when you're offstage vs DDD since he can u tilt Falco out of his side b easily and he has a chance of throwing out a gordo. If you have your second Jump you're usually fine, since DDD is a slow character and can't really chase your side b well if you long cancel over him. If you're forced to recover low that could be bad, try to side b to ledge or do a tricky up b.

Laser camping DDD is probably what most of the match is going to com down to, since DDD can have trouble getting in. If you happen land a low shl into DDD's shield when he's near you keep in mind that have frame advantage, so if you both grab you're grab will come out first.

Try not to be too predictable if you side b into DDD in this match up, u tilt will you destroy you if you do. Jumping over DDD and doing a long cancel side b is probably the easiest way to get away from DDD, but you should only use it if DDD has you in a corner.

As long as you don't play too predictable this match up shouldn't be that hard. If you don't Gimp DDD's recovery he's probably not gonna die until about 170 from an u smash.

 

[SlashTalon]

Great info vs DDD guys, thanks.

My question is there any tricks to regenerating shields faster? Like grabbing the edge or anything? I find vs Marth I use the shield a lot when I see the Dancing Blade coming, his tip just ***** shields, not to mention the occasional Dancing Blade 1->Sheild Breaker.

More tips vs Marth would be great too actually. There have been quite a few of them in my area including Kadaj. Lets just say i prefer Falco vs MK over Falco vs Marth. At least MK doesn't have a potential 0-Death on me if I make a mistake

I often camp with mixed SHL and SHDL, but when in Marths range or "tipper" I find my best option is to shield or powershield-then react accordingly: grab, roll, jump, run...
but doing that all match wrecks my shield, and staying airborne vs Marth is scary.

 

[Yarumo]

How do you guys play against Ice Climbers?

 

[DEHF]

If you're at tipper range you could dash attack or jump air dodge to get a reaction, try not to stay in that range for too long.

Your best bet is to try to get in a little closer so that you can you're in f tilt range, if you're at low % you can spam jab as well.

Marth can't put up his shield very fast when he's running, so you can a dash attack or f tilt pretty easily if you read a dash.

Do you know how to chain grab Marth? if not you should practice that, you get him to 0-43%. In order to do it you have to dash grab the first 4 grabs, then boost grab the last 2.

 

[SlashTalon]

If you're at tipper range you could dash attack or jump air dodge to get a reaction, try not to stay in that range for too long.

Your best bet is to try to get in a little closer so that you can you're in f tilt range, if you're at low % you can spam jab as well.

Marth can't put up his shield very fast when he's running, so you can a dash attack or f tilt pretty easily if you read a dash.

Do you know how to chain grab Marth? if not you should practice that, you get him to 0-43%. In order to do it you have to dash grab the first 4 grabs, then boost grab the last 2.

Did not know about the last two boosts, will definitely master that. I usually bait the UpB after the 3rd because most Marths try and UpB immediately after you successfully land 3 grabs.

DEHF, what's your best response to the dancing blade side B variations? I know Shield grab after 3rd hit, anything better?

 

[DEHF]

You can u smash out of shield after the 3rd hit

 

[swordsaint]

Okay Larry. I can't remember what thread I was discussing the Ice Climbers match up with you, so I'll do it here.

Since talking to you about it, I had begun to use Falco a little more on Ice Climbers in friendlies using all the tips and tricks you mentioned. I must say I'm really impressed with how much easier they can make the matchup. I still feel like it's disadvantaged, but for sure it's no worse than 60:40.

The chain grab on popo is fairly consistent with nana rubberbanding back to popo for more lasery dthrow goodness, and the potential this has for a 1hko astounds me. I say potential because popo can use nana in his up b from huge distances, so there's a chance for him to still recover like this if you're playing safe and waiting for him on the ledge, but I can see that with practice, a second dair spike after the cg and spike or a bair stage spike become viable options, or even just turning around and grabbing nana so popo can't recover.

The only hitch with this is when the Ice Climbers player knows nana really well. In situations I've got a chain grab on popo and nana is shielding, it's a simple matter of the Ice Climbers player to shield drop jab, but if the dthrow lasers hit nana it's a fairly simple subject here. Aside from the occasional accidental grabs on nana (**** the fact she gets in the way when you try and grab popo) it's fairly safe, and because you've grabbed one, you won't be getting chain grabbed for it.

As for spiking their up b, it's an incredible option, but I think it takes a bit of practice. It's not something where knowing about it is all you need. However it won't take much to get this consistent.

Also, for lasering or reflecting their Squall Hammer. Amazing. I had no idea this was so good. The screams the IC's player sometimes makes me all warm and fuzzy. <3 Seriously though, the options you get from this stuns me. Free smashes all day son, or if they get lasered slightly further offstage, edgehog.

Once I work reflector back in to my game, their desynch's will die out, and the matchup is definitely starting to look less bad than Pikachu.

However with Pikachu I still think a semi-aggressive first 21% and then platform camping or normal camping make this matchup no worse than 60:40. Aside from the chain grab, Pika imo has nothing on Falco. They get beat out by our jabs speed too easily, our chain grab is fairly good here and they have nothing that's particularly good at killing. Full hop nair is apparently safe, but we should be shielding that no problem and aerialing it out of shield. imo

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Any particular methods come to mind to seperate the two? I mean, if you can seperate the two and kill off nana before Popo, then the match-up is signficantly easier. Probably 60-40 falco favor once nana is dead. I believe I heard a method with Dthrow was a good way to stun one and throw the other.

 

[Tommy_G]

More tips vs Marth would be great too actually.

I loled.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

How worth do you guys think it would be to pick up Falco as a D3 main? Tired of using Snake and there's a million of them here in Michigan. There's no D3s besides me and one Falco here <_<

 

[Denzi]

How worth do you guys think it would be to pick up Falco as a D3 main? Tired of using Snake and there's a million of them here in Michigan. There's no D3s besides me and one Falco here <_<

I'm going to say it isn't very worth it, as two of D3's hardest matchups are Falco's hardest, and a third is the Falco ditto (i.e. a 50/50 shot at winning). The best non Snake 2nd you could pick would have to be marth, and you would need someone (Falco could work) to deal with MK. I just don't know if it would be worth learning 2 characters because you're tired of using Snake though.

 

[Bloodcross]

At least MK doesn't have a potential 0-Death on me if I make a mistake

RUFIO sonnnnnnn

 

[Attila_]

However with Pikachu I still think a semi-aggressive first 21% and then platform camping or normal camping make this matchup no worse than 60:40. Aside from the chain grab, Pika imo has nothing on Falco. They get beat out by our jabs speed too easily, our chain grab is fairly good here and they have nothing that's particularly good at killing. Full hop nair is apparently safe, but we should be shielding that no problem and aerialing it out of shield. imo

aggressive for the first 21%? now way jose. he can do 3xfthrow then start a dthrow cg. stay near the edge or stay on platforms.

 

[swordsaint]

aggressive for the first 21%? now way jose. he can do 3xfthrow then start a dthrow cg. stay near the edge or stay on platforms.

of course we can. Don't fight him when you're on the inside of the stage, do it when you're on the outside of the stage. (he's closer to the middle than you. So the fthrow chain grab doesn't work)

getting aggressive like that hurts no one <3

 

[DEHF]

You can hold full jab near the edge facing the stage, it clashes/beats all of Pikachu's grounded moves except for his smashes.

 

[~Aqua~]

which is the best stage for Falco?

 

[MulticolorShyGuy]

Final Destination