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Glubbfubb
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  • Does anyone have examples of female heavyweight characters in fighting games from the top of their heads and their general playstyles, I am designing my own for my plat-fighter and want some good examples to better help me.
    Can someone give me the general checklist for a shotoclone character like Ryu and Ken, line their tropes, general moveset and kit, that sorta of thing
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    By definition, a shotoclone is generally a character with:
    • At least three specials, these being:
      • A basic projectile, such as your Hadouken (which usually uses a QCF input)
      • A rising anti-air, such as the Shoryuken (which usually uses a DP input)
      • An advancing move for pressure, such as the Tatsumaki (which usually uses a QCB input)
    And that's... basically it. Even the inputs don't necessarily have to be the same, and the functions of each can differ.

    If you're looking for something deliberately closer to Ryu/Ken, a lot of shotoclones generally act as the "main character" or "face" for the series, and utilise a form of karate as their listed fighting style (or at least their main inspiration.)

    It's worth noting that shotoclones can differ in a lot of ways, though. For instance - Sol Badguy's moveset is ostensibly more grappler-focused nowadays because of his much wider plethora of options, but he can still arguably be classified as a shoto because he has these three tools. Alternately, Kyo Kusanagi eventually replaced his fireball with his Aragami chain punch, but people do still argue he counts as a form of shoto.

    If you wanted to deliberately riff on Ryu and Ken, though - bear in mind that's been done a lot - even Street Fighter alone has, like, Dan (who I guess riffs on Ryo but shh), Sakura and Sean, then there's endless other parodies of the "they travel the world for the sake of fighting" character type, not to mention the moveset. There's certainly likely to be unique ways of doing it... but a lot of them probably have already been done.
    Would you want a fighters pass 3 in smash bros even if the first 3 fighters were Alear, Chibi Robo and Meowscarada in that order?
    Is it just me or do axe wielders feel underrepresented in fighting games, like there is Kliff Underson from Guilty Gear, Simon throws axes as one of his specials in Smash, and there are some are wielders in Soulcalobur, but otherwise the archetype is oddly sparse in fighting games
    I feel conceptualizing before coding is a smart choice when designing a game, gives you a clear goal you want to make.

    Say what you will about which Street Fighter game is the best, but I feel safe in saying that the Alpha games are the best-looking Street Fighter games in my opinion, so bright and colorful, making the characters so expressive. Would you like to see this aesthetic in a platfighter like mine, I am trying to make my artstyle distinct from Rivals
    Would you say Marth as a whole is a character with a low barrier of entry, meaning he is easy to pick up and play, but has a high skill ceiling, meaning he has a lot of potential when mastered?
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    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    I'd say this is true to an extent - but weirdly, I think the existence of Lucina makes this more apparent. Marth's tipper mechanic might not be something that a newcomer to the series would initially recognise, but it's a mechanic that does bring about a high skill ceiling due to it effectively transforming him from a basic disjointed brawler (ie, Lucina) into a footsies-focused character.
    Question, which name do you think is better for one of my character's down special in my platfighter. This character is called Zazz, a Fire Emblem esc swordy who has an ice-based twist to his gameplay. The move in question is a Fire Emblem esc counterattack but the counter itself is quite weak in power, rather the counter has the user freeze the attacker in ice and push them back. I can't decide between Deep Cold, Total Zero, or Frozen Retribution as attack names.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Honestly, all of them sound cool! I'd say Frozen Retribution works best, though - it feels like it's the best of the three at indicating the function of the move (ie, a counter.)
    Although if it were me, I'd probably go with Terminal Frost given the Pink Floyd reference
    Okay, Marth is more fun than I expected in Smash, may make them my secondary main in ultimate alongside Lucas, because I am the most mid player of all time using mid characters.
    Does a plat-fighter need a wave dash, I feel like sometimes companies slap wave dashing onto a plat-fighter to attract the Melee crowd. I mean Ultimate is still active to this day and that game doesn't have a wave dash. Maybe it's just me being peeved about how most plat-fighters just copy melee's control systems while not doing anything new with it.
    Does anyone wish warioware had higher blast zones so it could be tournament legal. I just like the way the platforms are set up and feel it would give competitive some variety.
    My favorite remix from each Smash game

    64

    Melee

    Brawl

    Smash 4

    Ultimate

    Tell me what your favorite remix from each Smash game is


    I find it odd most plat fighters, or games in general, don't balance their game like Clash Royale. I mean conceptually I feel like directly telling the players which aspect of a character will be changed will help them understand the game better and have them pay more attention to the stats of each character.
    So one of my fighter concepts I have is essentially a vampire insect. She fills the role of a "penultimate boss" being the second-to-last fight in arcade mode and close to the final boss. Her gimmick I have in mind is that she has a dagger that she can stab people with and absorb their blood, she gets the most blood by performing command grabs, acting sorta like a more fragile but speedy grappler. This blood meter is how you fill up her Overmax meter and she is the only character with a different method of meter filling than the other members of the cast. For Overmax Attacks she has a command grab that has her latch on and sucks the blood of the opponent and heals herself for a small percentage of the damage dealt, she can enter a hyper mode to make her moves faster and knock back harder, and summon a swarm of smaller insects that is good at pushing opponents off the ground. Does that concept sound "fun" to you, any suggestions to expand that concept? I want to include design elements of several blood-sucking insects like mosquitos and ticks, in fact, she is female since only female mosquitos suck blood. Currently, I am having trouble between choosing G'nat, Weevle, and Secta as her name as all three are names I equally like.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yes, I am taking the time to learn the tutorials and such, and development has been going good, I fixed a major issue I had where the game kept freezing and now I am in development to try and make the game control properly, so there is progress and such
    Venus of the Desert Bloom
    Venus of the Desert Bloom
    I mean, are you able to code the ability for her to absorb opponent's blood and how that factors into command grabs and having a meter tied to it? I ask because I was apart of a development team for a long time that had a character laid out but had next to zero idea of how to code it. Nor could they figure out how to code it. By then, I had the lore written out as well as dialog which I hired someone to come to voice for. As they couldn't figure out how to code it (and it was easy from what I gathered many years later), they scrapped it and decided just to make the character a "female wrestler" trope which completely clashed with my lore and I was out of money having hired someone to voice her after being told to.

    It's better to have a vague idea of what you want to do and then figure out if it is possible before laying everything out.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, I have backup ideas, if I can't make the blood meter mechanic work I could maybe have some properties of her dagger-based attacks change after getting the blood needed, like maybe extend their range or allow her to shoot beam swords, again this is just concepts and I am mindful of my limitations, I just wanted to find a way for the vampire angle of her character to influence her moveset since I notice a lot of other vampires in fighting games, like Racheal from Blazblue, and Slayer from Guilty Gear, don't take advantage that they are vampires to give their movesets unique mechanics since there are a lot of ways being a vampire can give moveset potential.
    Man I have a massive issue and I don't know how to fix it, the plat-fighter I am working on in Godot is technically working, but every time I open it the game will just freeze, basically making it a static image, I know its frozen since I programmed a frame counter that counts every frame that passes in the game and that also freezes too. This is a massive issue I don't know how to fix and its really stressing me out since I don't wanna give up on this project, so does anyone have the knowledge of Godot to help me.
    Here is another moveset for another character I made, LAMBDA
    Gimmick:
    Nitro Dash
    LAMBDA is incapable of dashing normally, rather they use the jets on their backside to dash in set increments. You can cancel the dash early by dodging which not only ends the dash prematurely but also creates a small flame burst that deals weak damage and medium knockback, however, it also has notable end lag. This fact gives LAMBDA poor ground traction, which is compounded by their slow initial walk speed, in fact they have the slowest walk in the game. However with proper control over the Nitro Dash you can move in ways other characters can't allowing LAMBDA to become the only character with a built-in wavedash.

    Up Special
    Nitro Jet
    Another unconventional move, unlike most moves which can only be performed once before freefalling, Nitro Jet has a special fuel meter that allows LAMBDA to use the attack as many times as they want as long as they have the fuel. The Nitro Jet has small but noticeable end-lag when performed and is affected by LAMBDA's horizontal momentum, so if they are moving left the jets will be shoot upwards with a left arch. The underside of LAMBDA can damage other fighters when this attack is used, dealing small chip damage and is one of their best choices when breaking shields. Careful maneuvering is needed as with mastery this can become a potent recovery tool.

    Nuetral Special
    Pyronite Fist
    A powerful but slow attack, comparable to Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, however it has much more utility than that move. The move can be cancelled halfway through by performing a grab, meaning you can trick players expecting a Pyronite Fist with a sudden grab known as the Pyronite Grasp. As the go-to grappler of the game, this procedure lets LAMBDA perform serveral command grabs, most notably their Scorched Earth, performed by using the command for a Nitro Dash, this a powerful forward blast that leaves behind burning ground as a trap.

    Side Special
    Untested Prototype
    Their sole ranged attack, a flying metallic hunk of space junk that slowly hovers over the ground, it will explode when it either collides with a fighter or a projectile, allowing LAMBDA some keepaway tactics. When they use a Pyronite Fist into Untested Prototype, the projectile is launches as a fast fireball with impressive range.

    Down Special
    Hadron Collider
    A standard downward stomp, when done in the air they create an earthquake that trips anyone around them. When they can chain this after Pyronite Grasp to create Pyronite Asteroid, which has them launch them and their foe in the air and crash like a meteor, a powerful attack but one that also deals notable recoil damage to the user.

    Overmax Attacks
    Super Nitro Krasher
    Full Rotation + :GCB:
    LAMBDA's body radiates an orange glow, increasing their walk speed and gives them a normal dash. They also gain partial super-armor, meaning they can't be knocked out by weak attacks, though more powerful ones can knock them down. Finally Pyronite Fist and Untested Prototype become faster and stronger. This effect lasts for 6 seconds and is very it is very powerful when mastered.

    Pyronite Nova
    This attack is performed by using the same command as Pyronite Asteroid while pressing :GCU:, it is a more powerful and deadly Pyronite Asteroid, and it removes that move's recoil damage, making it a straight up upgrade to the move.

    Core Buster
    :GCDL::GCUR::GCDL::GCB:
    A powerful supernove, this attack deals massive damage and knockback, up to 200 damage, if used in point blank range, however this also deals either 200 damage to you as well. And by point blank range I mean this move has the same range as Rest point blank range. [, /SPOILER]

    How does this moveset look so far, I tried to make them the difficult to learn rewarding to master character, I am quite proud of it.
    Do you think despite Ganondorf being low tier in Ultimate, would you consider him "fun" to use, and would you mind if a character if low tier if they are still fun to use?
    osby
    osby
    He's not really along my faves but yeah, I think he's fun.

    A lot of my most-played characters are not very well regarded in competitive play which doesn't really affect my enjoyment of them. Zelda is always low-tier but I still love her playstyle.
    GolisoPower
    GolisoPower
    Not just Ganondorf, there are lots of characters in even other fighting games I love to play that are seen as competitively trash, yet despite that are the most fun you could have playing them.

    Like, when's the last time you got a dopamine rush landing a Zangief piledriver?
    Janx_uwu
    Janx_uwu
    Ganondorf's really fun because Ultimate really rewards hard reads and center stage control, especially if you play someone beefy like Ganondorf. So landing attacks with him just feels immaculate.
    Here are Aremi's base moveset so far, how does it look, quite proud ofit if I do say so myself. As a "mascot" character, what vibes do you get from this moveset so far?
    Neutral Special
    Arching Thunder
    An electrical projectile that moves in an arching zig-zag pattern. The arch of the zig-zag can be widened by pulling the :GCUR:, likewise, she can straighten the arc by pulling the :GCDR:.

    Up Special:
    Aremi's Shadow
    Aremi summons a shadowy clone of herself that quickly dashes upwards; she can aim and manipulate the shadow and wherever it ends up when it disperses will cause her to warp to the end location. This state occurs when the shadow either collides with solid ground, a ledge, or a ceiling.

    Down Special:
    Gravity Well
    Aremi spins around, manipulating the dark energy around herself to faintly control gravity. While the attack does weak damage, it is able to slow down Aremi's decent, pull items towards herself, and spin opponents around one side of her to her other side, meaning if she uses this while next to a fighting to her left side, they will instead be placed on her right side. When :GCR: or :GCL: is used shortly after this move, she can faintly twirl in one of those directions, giving her some horizontal recovery.

    Side Special:
    Soul Pyre
    Soul Pyre is an extremely short-range projectile shaped in the shape of a star. This seething hot flame damaged based off ticks, meaning it does multiple hits of weak damage and does extra damage to shields.

    Overmax Attacks:

    Doppleganger
    :GCR: :GCDR: :GCR: :GCB:
    Aremi summons an afterimage of herself directly in front of her and follows her around, with the initial summon pushing back any foes. This afterimage is good on offense and defense. It can block weak projeciles for Aremi, however it also copies all the attacks Aremi performs, so with some configuration you can use the doppleganger to form powerful jugles and chain grabs.

    Eye of the Reaper
    :GCU::GCUR::GCA::GCB:
    A large skull-shaped orb, can be manipulatedup or down diagonally with :GCUR: or :GCDR: respectively. After some time, the orb explodes into a spectral fire explosion.

    Wheel of Hades
    Full Circle + :GCB:
    Aremi creates a great wheel of flames around herself, think of this as a souped up Soul Pyre, an attack that does many ticks of weak damage that is great at breaking shields and armor, the wheel can also destroy projectiles and items placed by other characters.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yes, there will be command inputs that improve certain moves, as well as completely original ones. Overmax Attacks can be chosen from the character select to ether be manual, meaning you have to input the command to use them, or automatic by just pressing :GCB: , however as trade-off when you do have an Overmax usable you are unable to use your Neutral Special in automatic mode until you use the Overmax, unlike manual mode where you can use your Neutral special alongside the Overmax Attack.

    One command move I have so far is Vlad's Bane and Devil Flare. Vlad's Bane is activated by :GCR::GCDR: Grab :GCA::GCA::GCB: and releases a mighty pillar of dark energy that launches the foe much more than a standard forward throw. Devil Flare meanwhile is activated by using the command for Ryu's Shakunetsu(←↙↘→+AorB)and launches a bubbled flame that crahses down into a flaming floor.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Oooh, looks fun! Sorry for the inquisition, btw - just wanna get to know your thought process. They sound like a lot of fun!
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, I imagine Aremi to be one of those fast but heavy characters, like Fox. She can run and jump fast but sinks like a rock and is quite squishy, fittingly for a witch-esc character, a bad combo when you have a character lacking major horizontal recovery. While her vertical recovery is excellent, the best she can have in horizontal recovery is using a command input for a small midair twirl to the left or right.
    I think for my arcade mode boss, I am going to have it be essentially a 1v1 fight between you and the "villain" of the game, said villain is very buffed, has more power and knockback than their playable counterpart, has the ability to use all three of their Overmax/Final Smash attacks instead of just one, and has super armor that can only be broken by fully charged Smash Attacks or your own Overmax/Final Smashes. I think a fight like that sounds pretty fun while not making it go over the edge into SNK Boss territory if you are good at dealing with the playable counterpart and are effective at using Smash Attacks/Overmax Attacks.
    Do you think due to Steve being quite hard to master compared to other fighters that he deserves to have massive reward when played well, or do you think he is still too strong despite that?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I see, personally my philosophy is that if a character has a very high skill ceiling, they are more justified in having a higher power cap, that just means your being rewarded with being skilled. That is why I love Melee Fox and Jigglypuff and they are quite technical as characters compared to the rest of the cast, but that is compensated by having a high potential power. That is also why I dislike Brawl Meta Knight , he has a low skill floor, meaning he is very easy to learn, and for such a low bar of entry you get so much reward from him.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    See, I personally differ a little - my own philosophy is that while a character having a higher skill ceiling can justify a higher power cap, I feel like this would then kind of just force more mechanically complex characters to eventually become higher tier. After all, over time, their mechanics will be mastered and refined - and then you get, akin to Steve, a conceptually weak character with powerful mechanics, who gets labbed enough to the point that his (limited) powerful tools utterly decimate a lot of the roster.

    I personally think every character should feel high-tier, albeit in different ways - for instance, if you have a really simple character going up against a more complex character, the latter might need some more labbing to be able to work, but I don't think the "reward" should be that the latter is higher-tier - because otherwise, that kind of makes playing the simpler characters pointless, while making the game more inaccessible for newer players as a result.

    There obviously has to be balance - a skill floor that's too low results in an unfair top-tier like Brawl Meta Knight (like you mentioned) but I don't think that making complex characters objectively more powerful is (usually) a good way to balance things. Just my take though!
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Hmm your right, balance is complicated, like if a easy to learn fighter is just as good as a very technical fighter, then what is the point of using the more technical fighter if you can get the same reward at lower cost, but I do think making each character feel powerful is something to strive for. This dichotomy is best shown with Ultimate's Shiek and Ganondorf. while the former is MUCH better than the former tier wise, I see that she is generally unpopular of a choice by the general audience due to her low initial damage and perceived squishiness, making her not the most popular choice by casual players despite her solid tier placement, Ganondorf on the other hand is one of the worst charatcers in the game competitively but his sheer immediate power makes him a popular choice to causal players due to his kill potential. Shiek is a character with a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling, meaning she is hard to use but powerful when used well, while Ganondorf has a low skill floor and low skill ceiling, he is immediately powerful but his plethora of flaws keeps him from actually being viable.
    Are there any examples on the top of your head of a powerful tier-wise character in a fighting game who is very strong but very hard to control, sorta like a very hard character to master but very high reward?
    osby
    osby
    I have two:

    Vatista from Under Night In-Birth is commonly considered one of the best characters in the game but also one of the hardest. She has charge specials in all four directions, meaning there are times when you have to charge two moves at the same time during combos. She's slow and has no consistent way of close-range combat or traditional zoning. But once you get the hang of her moveset, you have a character who can control almost the entire screen and has extremely long and damaging combos.

    Akira Yuki from Virtua Fighter is another example. He can zero-to-death the entire cast in VF2 without any way of counter... however, the timing required for the inputs was so strict that literally no one was able to use his best combo. In later games, he's easier but still has only a few combo strings that naturally go beyond two hits and the longer ones were really hard to use. However, if you perfectly time his attacks together while also reading your opponent like a book, Akira can obliterate them.

    I believe the reason they are well-designed characters is that even when you master them, you still won't be automatically superior to every other character and have to work for victory like everyone else. (Unlike, say, Melee Fox, whose existence renders a sizeable portion of the roster obsolete.)
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    If that is the case, how should I give players the proper reward for mastering the controls of a difficult-to-use character without invalidating the cast?
    osby
    osby
    I'm not a game designer but as I said, maybe give them strong combos that are risky to start or limit some of their best options with a meter (that they don't have mediate access to).
    Kinda find it weird that despite Mega Man's custom moves in Smash 4 all referencing different weapons he could use across the series, the Pokemon reps just get variations of existing moves rather than using different moves they could learn. Charizard's Rock Smash could be replaced by a move like Brick Break or Bulldoze, while Lucario's Aura Sphere could be replaced by Focus Blast or Vacuum Wave. I feel like that was a missed opportunity cramming in more references.
    Okay, very VERY minor question, what is a better name for my main "mascot" character for my fighting game, Aremi or Aremni, yes the main difference is the addition of a single letter but I don't know if it makes the name better or worse, I am trying to make my main character's aesthetic be that of a cloaked practitioner of dark magic and necromancy, most of her attacks are shadow and lightning-based, and playstyle wise can be seen as a mix of Fox, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo, so I wonder which name would be better.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I like that, she can also use a command input that allows her to quickly summon one of her shadows forward and and can cancel that attack midway to warp to the shadow's current location. The command is :GCCD::GCCDR::GCCR::GCB:, and by pressing :GCB: midway through the projectile's run, she can cancel it and warp to that shadow's location; however the downside is some notable end lag.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Random thought - given a lot of newer players would probably come in with the expectation for a Ryu-styled moveset (not a necessity, but probably what they're expecting) - I feel like a QCF input should be more offensive (ie, some kind of projectile or powerful special). I'd personally maybe suggest this being a QCB might make more sense - it's less attack-focused, more movement-focused.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    That could work, though in technicality the move by itself is offensive, but you also have the ability to convert it into a mobility maneuver as well, so its a bit of both
    What is everyone's opinion on Ness/Lucas' PK Thunder, like do you like it as both a move and recovery, and do you think a move like that would work well on my "mascot" character
    Would you say 14 fighters would be a good enough starting roster for an indie plat-fighter game? That is the amount I am aiming for, not too big or small.
    Here is an interesting question, what do you think is the WORST DESIGNED CHARACTER you have ever seen in a fighting game, they are not just bad but DISFUNCTIONALLY bad, and tell me why
    I think each character in my Platfighter can have one of 3 selectable Overmax Attacks, basically the Final Smash equivalents, instead of Smash Balls you can use Overmax Attacks by filling up a meter, sorta like a normal Hyper Attack you see in a typical fighting game. Aside from picking on which Overmax Attack you want to use out of 3, you also have the option of performing it manually or automatically; manually means you have to use a combo input to use the attack, while automatically means you just need to press the Special button to activate this. The choice is less one-sided as once you have your Overmax Attack ready in automatic mode, you are locked out of your Neutral Special until you use it, which can lock some characters out of potential combos, especially if said Neutral Special can be a good lead into the Overmax Attack you chose. Each Overmax Attack also takes a certain amount of meter energy to be usable, some taking more meter than others. Overmax Attacks are not solely offensive moves, you can also have defensive Overmax Attacks such as ones that temporarily give you super armor, ones that heal you a specific amount, and ones that improve your mobility. How does that sound so far?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Selected before you start, sorta like Street Fighter Alpha/4/Etc, you have 3 different Overmax Attacks you can choose from, but only one of those can be used as your actual attack in battle
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    This kinda reminds me of how SFIII handles this actually, it looks hella interesting - though, one thing to note is that you'd need to ensure all of your Overmaxes are, like, balanced. Otherwise you end up with Remy's Blue Nocturne Super Art which - on the one hand, conceptually makes some sense (as a defensive super for a defensive character), but on the other hand, sucks ass (being a counter move, so like, nobody's going to hit you, then your meter drains, and you're back at square one.)

    With that in mind, while defensive Overmaxes could totally work, it's essential to make sure they work well.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    The two defensive Overmax attacks I have in mind so far were going to have one fighter gain an afterimage in front of herself, like Zero's afterimages in Mega Man X5 to those who played the game, not only can it absorb projectiles but it also copies your exact movements, and attacks, and so with some maneuvering, you can use this move to juggle combos onto opponents. The other defensive Overmax attack is for my "final boss" character, normally when you fight them as a boss they have super armor and act as an SNK boss, but with this Overmax attack you can become that SNK boss, and gain super armor, but only for like 6-7 seconds, since this character is a slow bulky grappler, this move allows them to go and close the distance more easily.
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