Zelda's new tier list placement

[Elder Sister]

same here though i dont care about samus

 

[<π]

I think samus is better than zelda.

lagless aerials.
good range.
a real ftlilt!
zair.
a good recovery.
a variety of kill moves
good priority.
better projectiles.

if sheik transformed into samus I'd be the happiest man alive.

I like lists.

 

[Alphatron]

Sakurai's demon pet is never screwed.

I think Sakurai's just paying MK back for how much him and Dedede sucked in Kirby's Air Ride.

And I've seen Red Bandit play Zelda in Brawl+. She looks beast. But I fear other characters may catch my eye as well.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

<3, I´m not going to start argument with you about Samus but that list has few severe errors in it.

 

[<π]

better OOS options, better spacing tools, better recovery...

Your right though. Zelda boards, not samus boards.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda is the cuttoff for being in the bottom 1/3 of the characters. Discuss.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

She has lower placement number than her Melee counterpart but she´s still higher in relation to the number of characters in whole cast. Discuss.

Edit: Her position is also the number of characters in Melee. Coincidence? Discuss.

 

[Brinzy]

What are Samus's godly OoS options, again? Because last time I checked, Zelda's OoS options lose to MK, Marth, Bowser, DDD, ICs, and... who else? Actually, a lot of these don't completely beat her OoS game out in certain situations, like getting a KO at 60%. OoS basically negates movement, as in you're not really going anywhere unless you get pushed back a bit and need to move a little to reach with an attack. It also generally means your target is defenseless, and the way to be Zelda is to have your shield up, because otherwise you're getting hurt. I don't see what Samus has on that.

Samus has worse priority than Zelda except when it comes to zair. If she could zair the whole match unhindered, sure, but she can't. Then you have some fire attacks, and... that's it.

lol @ both of their ftilts.

Samus does NOT have a variety of killing moves, not over Zelda. This is not up for discussion.

I'll give you the rest of that stuff. Still doesn't make her better than Zelda. I would rather use Samus against Snake for sure, but that's about it.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

SoR, shhh. You´re right but did exactly what I tried to avoid: started an argument that doesn´t belong here.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

UpB OoS for Samus and lol SoR, i wanted to reply to that too, but Hss is right. we all know how <3 feels about Zelda anyway.

 

[Brinzy]

Sorry, I'm not used to Zelda being better than someone.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sorry, I'm not used to Zelda being better than someone.

now that she's Low Tier Tourney legal... you will be

 

[JigglyZelda003]

but what about the Ikes looking for free money? D:

 

[Brinzy]

Honestly, that's more of a player thing than it is a character thing. No way in hell does Ike give Zelda as much trouble as ZSS, Marth and above.

 

[-Mars-]

I think samus is better than zelda.

lagless aerials.
good range.
a real ftlilt!
zair.
a good recovery.
a variety of kill moves
good priority.
better projectiles.

if sheik transformed into samus I'd be the happiest man alive.

I like lists.

I think Zelda is better than Samus.

superior aerials.
good range.
a real usmash.
bair.
better kill moves that actually kill before 150%.
better priority.

I like lists.

 

[<π]

I hate samus >
I'm a sheik main though and I see the two as one I want to get more out of her. But that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore her weaknesses, that isn't what good players do. As I see zelda now at high levels of play she isn't much but still I'm hoping I'm not seeing the whole picture. Zelda's power is some that sheik needs so bad. It becomes very difficult to kill with sheik, even with ftilt usmash (espeacially since DI plays a role as well in it...) Luckily sheik can kill eventually with all of her moves... it just waiting till these ridiculous percents where your pokes kill give your opponent lost of chances to capitalize on your mistakes, incorrect predictions, and bad luck.
Zelda. I love her to death. but she is slow in all aspects. She plays like gannondorf with longer hit boxes. Pff... and thats fine! The problem is how easy that is to avoid. Despite Love she is easily camped, and her slow movement speed and lack of presuring tools (close range ones anyway) makes it hard to force errors and bad decisions. I'm not saying there is no way around these faults I'm saying I don't see them. I don't like... try and shut down ideas people come up with cuz I'm a jerk but because I see the fault pointing it out to people who don't will advance everyone. If I say something stupid prove me wrong! I love being proven wrong it means I learned something new about the game.

 

[-Mars-]

Zelda doesn't play like Ganondorf. She has a few fast moves and has the ability to actually punish OoS........traits that Ganondorf doesn't possess.

Dtilt is a decent pressuring tool.......granted not the best but it is adequate enough for a power character. I think the thing that really holds Zelda back is her lack of a good jab. If she had a frame 5 jab or something she would be a lot tougher to handle.

 

[Brinzy]

Or a frame 5 grab.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah and also you it's safer to dtilt behind their shield so you can catch them in their turnaround with another.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

If you say Zelda is like Ganondorf you honestly have never played him...

Zelda is slow, that´s true, but she actually has some fast and relatively safe options like D-smash and D-tilt. Ganondorf, on the other hand, doesn´t have a single move that could actually be called fast and safe. His fastest attacks are grab, Nair and Uair with hitboxes coming out on frames 6, 7 and 7, but grab has horrible range and the two others are not safe because of their long cooldown times.

Edit: Oops, now I´m the one starting an argument... forget this.

 

[gm jack]

Zelda doesn't play like Ganondorf. She has a few fast moves and has the ability to actually punish OoS........traits that Ganondorf doesn't possess.

Dtilt is a decent pressuring tool.......granted not the best but it is adequate enough for a power character. I think the thing that really holds Zelda back is her lack of a good jab. If she had a frame 5 jab or something she would be a lot tougher to handle.

Possibly a natural combo ending with her current jab? That would give her so many more options.

Or, you could swap one of her lightning kicks out of a move that can actually be used to approach. A fair with low knock back but someone usable speed and range in addition to a decent jab would probably push her options massively.

While her grab is slow, it has pretty good range. Aside from the tethers, only DDD, Charizard and one or two others actually beat it. Sadly, it means you really have to predict them to use the range on it.

 

[sniperworm]

I think the thing that really holds Zelda back is her lack of a good jab. If she had a frame 5 jab or something she would be a lot tougher to handle.

Yes, this is so true. Why couldn't Sakurai give Zelda a faster jab?

While her grab is slow, it has pretty good range. Aside from the tethers, only DDD, Charizard and one or two others actually beat it. Sadly, it means you really have to predict them to use the range on it.

Third longest non-tether grab range, yeah (too bad Zelda's grab is the same speed as Link and TL's grab and is slower than Yoshi's running and pivot grabs).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236133

 

[mountain_tiger]

I have to say, this character board is quite possibly the most pessimistic out of all the character boards. A lot of you (SoR in particular) keep going on about why she's bad. Why can't you guys talk more about why she's good, like the other character boards do? Take the Fox boards for example. Fox has horrific matchups agaisnt some of the high tier characters, yet they don't go on about them all the time. Hell, even the Jigglypuff and Yoshi mains talk about how their character is good. Yet most of the Zelda mains here just look at how she's bad. You guys need to build on her good points more, like her broken DSmash, or tricks with her reflector and Din's Fire and stuff, and that way maybe she won't have such bad matchups against all the top tier characters. How does saying Zelda is awful all the tme make you happier. Stop looking at the clouds and start looking at the silver lining.

(BTW, if you find this insulting rather than encouraging, then I apologise. )

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yes, this is so true. Why couldn't Sakurai give Zelda a faster jab?

Umm... to keep her jab elegant and magic-based?

But she´d really need either good jab or good grab in her arsenal.

Edit: At the above post: we all know that she´s really awesome and easily the best character in the game, much more broken than metaknight. It´s just this giant mindgame we have to make everyone believe she´s absolute garbage.

No, but really, right now we´re just mostly accepting the fact that she isn´t very good. After we´ve gone past that follows a short phase of everyone just moping around in misery before we start owning everyone and become happy again.

 

[Kataefi]

To be honest, I'm much more interested in finding ways to land lightning kicks and kill setups than mope about why she's so low on the tier list. The fact she has a multitude of tools to kill anyone at low percents and quite a few interesting setups into those kill moves is motivating enough for me to main her.

Getting camped? Start powershielding.

 

[mountain_tiger]

To be honest, I'm much more interested in finding ways to land lightning kicks and kill setups than mope about why she's so low on the tier list. The fact she has a multitude of tools to kill anyone at low percents and quite a few interesting setups into those kill moves is motivating enough for me to main her.

Getting camped? Start powershielding.

See, why can't you lot be more positive like this poster?

 

[Kataefi]

LOL! well to be honest I don't think anyone's really that bothered about her tier position that much. It might seem drab here but it's all pantomine.

Unless you're MK or top tier you really stand no good chance of winning national tourneys imo. It's possible to win, it's very much possible to win with every character in the game but it will take a lot to achieve this, so you just need to accept your character is disadvantaged yet still go in with a fighting spirit.

 

[Brinzy]

stuff

You really don't know me or this board that well. Nobody is seriously maimed or anything about her tier position. In my case, however, I'm tired of people in that tier thread that I've never seen before talk about how great she is or whatever keeps getting brought up. I have also posted many positive things about her in that thread, but of course you never saw that, right?

It's annoying to have to be cutthroat with people because they overrate her severely (or say she's worse than a certain character without any reasoning (not directed at <3)) while at the same time get told that I'm being too negative or whatever. Please do not comment about my actions, let alone my feelings, when it comes to this character; you are probably misguided.

 

[KayLo!]

Words.

I agree with this, but like others have said, most of us here aren't seriously butthurt over her tier list position.

Getting camped? Start powershielding.

Trufax, my friends. Against some characters (Fox.... ), it's nearly impossible to pshield consistently, but most projectiles are relatively slow and easy enough to powershield if you work on it.

Trust me, as a Pikachu player, it's a huge "wtfwhatdoido?!?!" moment when you find out your opponent basically negates your camping ability. ;-; Then it's time for epic combos!!!!!

-- Oh wait, Zelda doesn't have those.

Please do not comment about my actions, let alone my feelings, when it comes to this character; you are probably misguided.

I think he was just trying to be helpful, SoR. His perception of the Zelda boards was a little off, but he was just trying to encourage us to look at the positive. Nothing wrong with that. It came from a good place.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Sorry for any misunderstandings to anyone here. As I said before, that wasn't meant to be insulting.

 

[Brinzy]

I figured as much and didn't make that clear earlier, but regardless, I'm sorry for my response.

 

[MrEh]

Zelda sucks. It's that simple.

Being overly pessimistic is better then being overly optimistic. At least that way, you accept that you need to counterpick if you want to place in tournaments.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda sucks. It's that simple.

Being overly pessimistic is better then being overly optimistic. At least that way, you accept that you need to counterpick if you want to place in tournaments.

I'm pretty dedicated to Zelda/Sheik... only character I've CPd really has been Olimar because he rawks Zelda so hard, and sheik only does okay against him. Plus I can play sonic and peach well enough that they do better against him for me.

 

[M@v]

Samus better than Zelda, thats a good one.

 

[Ochobobo]

Is it just me or are low tier mains usually pretty proficient with high tier characters

 

[MrEh]

Is it just me or are low tier mains usually pretty proficient with high tier characters

Not Zelda. lol

 

[-Mars-]

I don't think Zelda is good in this game......but I do feel that she has some room for improvement while other characters have reached their maximum capabilities already.

I also feel that her moveset is a good one(excluding her recovery) and can give several characters in the game problems. Sue me.

I think combined with Sheik we will see some very competitive Zelda players before Brawls conclusion. Snake and MK will give any character in the game trouble and G&W is the only real hard counter besides those two.

 

[MrEh]

I don't think Zelda is good in this game......

This never occurred to me.

Zelda actually sucks? My entire world is turned upside down!

Snake and MK will give any character in the game trouble and G&W is the only real hard counter besides those two.

Olimar says hi.

 

[-Mars-]

Of course I was talking about Sheik and Zelda together.......and olimar certainly does not hard counter Sheik.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Olimar says hi.

Olimar vs. Sheik is actually a really close matchup.