Zelda's new tier list placement

[MrEh]

Olimar vs. Sheik is actually a really close matchup.

If the Olimar is ********. He has too many options for it to be close.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If the Olimar is ********.

no...

Sheik is good at edgeguarding, Olimar is sensative to edgeguarding.

Sheik is also quite good at getting inside holes in defenses.


You're wrong.

 

[MrEh]

no...

Yes!

Sheik is good at edgeguarding, Olimar is sensative to edgeguarding.

Good luck getting the little guy offstage. He's a campy defensive wall.

Sheik is also quite good at getting inside holes in defenses.

Too bad you'll get grabbed in the process.

You're wrong.

Yup.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Good luck getting the little guy offstage. He's a campy defensive wall.

he's also very light weight. And, as said earlier, sheik doesn't have a WHOLE lot of problems getting inside of camping.

Too bad you'll get grabbed in the process.

to use Mr.Eh logic:
If the Sheik is retarted

 

[Alphatron]

Zelda sucks alot less than Link and Ganon and only slightly less than the koopa king.

 

[MrEh]

he's also very light weight

Olimar is super light, but Sheik is weak. So therefore, Sheik kills Olimar a bit later then most characters. (assuming no gimps)

Sheik is also light. And Olimar can actually kill things. That's not good at all.

And, as said earlier, sheik doesn't have a WHOLE lot of problems getting inside of camping.

If you get inside the camp, that's great. Now enjoy the pivot grabs.

to use Mr.Eh logic:
If the Sheik is retarted

Correct.

Zelda sucks alot less than Link and Ganon and only slightly less than the koopa king

Well, it's very hard to suck more then Link and Ganon. They're bottom tier for a reason. (poor guys)

As for Bowser, he's pretty much the cutoff for the crappy characters in the game. He's the most borderline of all the low tiers anyway. Consider everyone above Bowser to be average, while everyone below him to be terrible.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Olimar is super light, but Sheik is weak. So therefore, Sheik kills Olimar a bit later then most characters. (assuming no gimps)

Sheik is also light. And Olimar can actually kill things. That's not good at all.

Hence olimar prbably having an advantage. A small one.

If you get inside the camp, that's great. Now enjoy the pivot grabs.

Sheik will get inside those also. Not all of them, but enough.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Sonic, what exactly are you basing this on? I'm just curious. Do you go to tournies?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Sheik an oli aren't even. although if your not going Peach for that fight Sheik is a much better option than Zelda is.....

 

[-Mars-]

Olimar players will even tell you that Sheik has some stuff on Olimar.........including a very good approach option on him. Due to his grab not having grab armor or whatever it's called.......Sheik can nair through Pikmin and land into a jab which beats any attempts by Olimar to grab Sheik.

With decayed ftilt>usmash on Oli she has a viable means of killing without gimps and her tipper is one of the most lethal vertical killers in the game.

She also has little trouble dealing with Pikmin throws and she completely owns him offstage. Even Olimar players will tell you that Sheik is a pretty close to even matchup.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so like 57:43 or something like that?

 

[sniperworm]

Olimar players will even tell you that Sheik has some stuff on Olimar.........including a very good approach option on him. Due to his grab not having grab armor or whatever it's called.......Sheik can nair through Pikmin and land into a jab which beats any attempts by Olimar to grab Sheik.

I'm just gonna say that while this is true, nothing is stopping Olimar from using a retreating pivot grab to get you as you're landing or shielding the jab and grabbing/Usmashing OoS later.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sheik an oli aren't even. although if your not going Peach for that fight Sheik is a much better option than Zelda is.....

I'm normally going Sonic or Peach... but if they CP my zelda pick with an Oli, I'm going to press down B and attempt to make the best of it as sheik. It's NOT even, but he's not good enough against sheik to be a soft counter to her.

Sheik is so fast, she has the ability to stop Olimar from grabbing her all the time. She won't stop every attempt, of course, but speed's a nice thing.

get one low damage gimp against him and suddenly this matchup looks a lot better.

 

[-Mars-]

As for Bowser, he's pretty much the cutoff for the crappy characters in the game. He's the most borderline of all the low tiers anyway. Consider everyone above Bowser to be average, while everyone below him to be terrible.

Bowser isn't tournament viable so it really doesn't matter.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser isn't tournament viable so it really doesn't matter.

Nothing except for the S and A tiers are tournament viable.

 

[-Mars-]

Nothing except for the S and A tiers are tournament viable.

I'll give you that.

 

[<π]

If you say Zelda is like Ganondorf you honestly have never played him...

Zelda is slow, that´s true, but she actually has some fast and relatively safe options like D-smash and D-tilt. Ganondorf, on the other hand, doesn´t have a single move that could actually be called fast and safe. His fastest attacks are grab, Nair and Uair with hitboxes coming out on frames 6, 7 and 7, but grab has horrible range and the two others are not safe because of their long cooldown times.

Edit: Oops, now I´m the one starting an argument... forget this.

Lol, without turning this into a zelda vs Gannon
A fast move isn't a safe one persay. I wasn't trying to say they have the same attack speeds though I was talking about play style.
With both of them you have to play a defensive/punishment game to be effective. their moveself don't exactly allow for very all out aggressive approaches because of their over all slow start ups and lack of viable pressure tools.
Range and shield stun also play huge roles in safety and zelda's move while having range more often than not lack the shield stun to even be worth using for anything except confirmed hits ftilt usmash dsmash jab... zelda has no real attacks she can' throw out without fear of punishment. Even the almighty Fsmash is easy to punish and easier to avoid for most characters. Coming here as a sheik wolf bowser main it is very debilitating not being able to safely apply pressure to my opponent.


On the current issue.
I've played a few Oli's with my sheik I haven't had much issue. he is too slow for sheik, she can punish the tinyest holes and It's really easy to force mistakes.

 

[Oh Snap]

wow I just remembered when people were suggesting Zelda on high tier when Brawl first came out...

 

[-Mars-]

Ya before people discovered multiple airdodges.

 

[M@v]

Nothing except for the S and A tiers are tournament viable.

I wouldnt quite say that. S,A, and B tier imo.

C tier also, but with a B or higher secondary.

 

[Ochobobo]

It's really ridiculous how quickly Zelda can crouch down to a full kneel and then quickly stand back up, and do it again multiple times with no lag.

With all that exercising you'd think she'd be a faster runner.

 

[KayLo!]

It's really ridiculous how quickly Zelda can crouch down to a full kneel and then quickly stand back up, and do it again multiple times with no lag.

With all that exercising you'd think she'd be a faster runner.

Maybe her boots are made of bronze or something. Or it could be the dress.

I swear I trip more with Zelda than with any other character.

 

[Brinzy]

I've started walking with Zelda. There's basically no difference... right?

 

[Ochobobo]

I've started walking with Zelda. There's basically no difference... right?

Actually might not be a bad idea. It could stop dash attacks which are way too laggy for Zelda.

 

[KayLo!]

Walking with Zelda is a top tier mindgame. People just feel the need to run after you, at which point you reverse fsmash them to the face.

I've had people run into it 2 or 3 times in a row, lol.

 

[MrEh]

Walking with Zelda makes Fsmash and Dtilt approaches more viable.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Walking with Zelda makes Fsmash and Dtilt approaches more viable.

Interesting.

I generally walk with Zelda anyway.

I always jump with Din's too.

Do you think Zelda will go down again next time?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Zelda loses her hyphen U-smash, fast dash attack and slow dash grab when walking but it´s not a bad trade for actually getting more options. Besides, all of those can be done without actually running from the initial dash.

Also, I personally think she´ll keep falling in tier list. Not that anyone cares my predictions though...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda loses her hyphen U-smash, fast dash attack and slow dash grab when walking but it´s not a bad trade for actually getting more options. Besides, all of those can be done without actually running from the initial dash.

Also, I personally think she´ll keep falling in tier list. Not that anyone cares my predictions though...

What's a Hyphen U smash?

It's not like Zelda running makes her significantly faster in the first place. lol

And yeah, Zelda is destined to fall unless people start placing with her. Since that's not going to happen...


E Tier here we come!

Zelda for last place! xD

 

[MrEh]

It's not like Zelda running makes her significantly faster in the first place. lol

And yeah, Zelda is destined to fall unless people start placing with her. Since that's not going to happen...


E Tier here we come!

 

[Half-Split Soul]

What's a Hyphen U smash?

Hyphen smash means the same as running U-smash: simply doing U-smash when running which results into a sliding U-smash.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Maybe her boots are made of bronze or something. Or it could be the dress.

I swear I trip more with Zelda than with any other character.

her boots are clearly made of lightning....

Spoiler

harvested by making leather out of the finest pikachu hides.

 

[Microbe]

Walking with Zelda is a top tier mindgame. People just feel the need to run after you, at which point you reverse fsmash them to the face.

I've had people run into it 2 or 3 times in a row, lol.

I believe it was Mr. Eh who once said, "Walking is the new wavedash" (If it wasn't Mr. Eh, then I appologise to whoever it was who DID say it :embarrass).

 

[Half-Split Soul]

her boots are clearly made of lightning....

Spoiler

harvested by making leather out of the finest pikachu hides.

Oh no, don´t go there Sonic! You don´t want to make Mamachu angry at us!

 

[KayLo!]

her boots are clearly made of lightning....

Spoiler

harvested by making leather out of the finest pikachu hides.

WUT?!?!?!?!?

Come on now, the finest Pikachu hide would give her a speed boost.... there's no way she'd be 3rd slowest in the game with those babies on.

Besides the fact that hunting Pikachus for their precious skin & fur is illegal. Arrest Zelda! ARREST HER NAO!!!

Or maybe Link did it and gave them to her as a gift.... he is pretty well-equipped..... and those shady features......

Liiiiiink..............

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

WUT?!?!?!?!?

Come on now, the finest Pikachu hide would give her a speed boost.... there's no way she'd be 3rd slowest in the game with those babies on.

Besides the fact that hunting Pikachus for their precious skin & fur is illegal. Arrest Zelda! ARREST HER NAO!!!

Or maybe Link did it and gave them to her as a gift.... he is pretty well-equipped..... and those shady features......

Liiiiiink..............

Isn't Zelda tied for 2nd slowest in the game.

but she's a princess. She can do what she wants, screw what's illegal in Kanto, Johto or Sinoh

as if link could beat a pikachu...

 

[sniperworm]

I've started walking with Zelda. There's basically no difference... right?

You mean you always used to run, lol? Walking definitely has it's uses for most characters.

However, there is a difference between walking and running. From Mew2King's posts on gamespot about walking and running speed:

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-42222051&pid=928518

Walking vs Running Speed Increase - how many times your speed increases when you run instead of walking. Note that things like Sheik and ZSS they both increase by the same amount but due to things like rounding, only doing 1 stage to test it on, and walking speed acceleration compared to other characters especially, results might vary slightly from what they truely may be, but this is a fairly accurate list given the frames I have tested.

2.62 Charizard
2.55 C.Falcon
2.36 Sonic
1.97 Bowser
1.85 Lucas
1.64 Ness
1.62 Ganondorf
1.61 Wario
1.61 Snake
1.59 Olimar
1.58 Ike
1.58 Jigglypuff
1.58 Peach
1.54 Metaknight
1.53 Zelda
1.51 ZSS
1.5 Sheik
1.48 Yoshi
1.48 Ivysaur
1.46 Fox
1.46 ICs
1.46 Pikachu
1.45 Kirby
1.44 GW
1.43 Lucario
1.42 Diddy
1.4 Toon Link
1.4 Mario
1.39 Samus
1.39 DK
1.38 ROB
1.34 Pit
1.32 DDD
1.27 Luigi
1.2 Marth
1.17 Squirtle
1.15 Falco
1.13 Link
1.12 Wolf

Zelda's actually pretty high on the list, meaning that the difference between her walking and running speed is noticable (although she's still really slow either way).

 

[Brinzy]

I mean that I've started to run a lot less. The second sentence wasn't a real question - I know there's a difference, but like you said, she's slow either way. That's why I dropped running... along with the fact that tripping is stupid.

 

[<π]

Zelda's run is like 1.53 times faster than her walk!

I don't walk with wolf no point. you are better off jumping to move with wolf...

Running isn't that bad I just never run towards my opponent unless it for a hopeful punish.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I mean that I've started to run a lot less. The second sentence wasn't a real question - I know there's a difference, but like you said, she's slow either way. That's why I dropped running... along with the fact that tripping is stupid.

And this is the reason that I like to approach through the air; IIRC it's about the same speed as dashing, and there's no risk of tripping.