Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Kataefi]

Well there's a lot of misconception about the tier list towards the bottom half. Luigi for example is very low but is deserving of higher for example, as is possibly Zelda and many many other characters. Aside from the top top tiers, all the characters have some sort of a chance against each other, it becomes a lot more balanced when you take out the top tiers from the game.

But I'm convinced now it's not that much of Zelda's advantage. But I don't think it's Wario's either. 50:50? Range and priority is quite a big deal, if she's not letting wario in, he's not getting the damage. If Zelda starts to latch onto Wario's baits she has a move that will stop him one way or another. It's whether her player can utilise that move of hers in time and not whiff it.

 

[sniperworm]

Ha, yeah, I used to think that this was easily in Zelda's favor till I actually faced a decent Wario.

I love grabbing, despite Zelda's gimp grab speed. In fact, I often grab at higher percents even when I could've killed someone (bad, I know). And to be honest, Wario is one of the few match ups where I feel like my grab is handicapped.

Man, for a fat guy he can really move.

 

[Villi]

I'll never underestimate a fat man ever again since this one time I saw a guy do a two platform dance dance. Top 10 most surreal moments of my life.

 

[PhantomX]

We are by no means claiming that we have advantage (DMG thinks so, but he says it's very slight), we just don't think we're disadvantaged either, assuming the matchup is played correctly by both. I say leave it neutral for now, until the likes of DM plays DMG or something and they discuss otherwise XD

 

[DMG]

We are by no means claiming that we have advantage (DMG thinks so, but he says it's very slight), we just don't think we're disadvantaged either, assuming the matchup is played correctly by both. I say leave it neutral for now, until the likes of DM plays DMG or something and they discuss otherwise XD

Lol ok neutral is cool, I STILL think that he pulls out ahead but that is suitable for now.

 

[Villi]

Are any of you going to Winter Game Fest in San Diego?

 

[PhantomX]

Fiction is, and he's good rep for our "people." Haha.

 

[DMG]

Are any of you going to Winter Game Fest in San Diego?

I am trying, everyone in Texas that I know of cancelled their plans. I doubt I would be allowed to travel on a plane to Cali without at least 1 other person my family knows, so I doubt I will be able to make it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so were settling on 50:50 then? sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Villi]

Well if you can go, let's play some matches! I'd be willing to rep the Zeldas. I wonder if Doppleganger might be there too. I hear he's good with Zelda.

 

[Kataefi]

Excelenté! Okay well I kind of anticipated it would settle to neutral so I placed this in the matchup chart thingy. Wario vs Zelda really isn't a very common matchup I should imagine :/

 

[MrEh]

Neutral sounds fair to me.

btw, I love both characters.

 

[PhantomX]

And we love YOU, MrEh, for being a Hawaiian dude that doesn't overestimate grab releases on Wario, and for playing Boozer rather than surfing or lazing on the beach.

 

[DMG]

And for having an epic Sig and Avatar that I don't quite understand fully yet but rest assured it is epic.

 

[Takumaru]

Did we just reach a sort of agreement with another group of players about a match-up? Someone save the previous 5 or 6 pages so we can remember this moment forever!

And I feel like a moron for just now realizing that DMG = dr. mario guy...

 

[DMG]

Did we just reach a sort of agreement with another group of players about a match-up? Someone save the previous 5 or 6 pages so we can remember this moment forever!

And I feel like a moron for just now realizing that DMG = dr. mario guy...

It's fine, there are a lot of people out there that hear of DMG the Wario player and don't even know what DMG stands for lol.

I think we agreed to 50:50, I think Wario can go past that with camping, some of the Zelda's think 55:45 or more for Zelda, but we'll probably just wait until the two sides clash in Brawl.

 

[Takumaru]

Er... do you mean "poking" when you say camping? He doesn't really have anything to camp with.

 

[Brinzy]

He probably means something about forcing Zelda to approach and attack while making her make mistakes... but I dunno if that's what he means or not. Either way, that's not camping.

 

[DMG]

Er... do you mean "poking" when you say camping? He doesn't really have anything to camp with.

Camping as in playing very defensive when you get a % lead while still semi approaching.

He probably means something about forcing Zelda to approach and attack while making her make mistakes... but I dunno if that's what he means or not. Either way, that's not camping.

Camping doesn't have to be with projectiles (even though it usually is), but more about resetting the stage position over and over.

 

[Brinzy]

I know you don't need a projectile to camp. Never really said you did...

I think it's better to say playing defensive instead of camping. Your definition of camping suits "defensive" better, in my opinion. Camping would be more or less forcing an approach regardless of whether or not you have the lead, in my opinion, but whatever, I don't want to start any semantics crap.

Anyway, as for the actual tactic, it can be effective, but I don't see why Zelda would be significantly hurt by this... though I haven't played Wario enough to get a good feel for this fight, hence why I've stayed out of this for the most part.

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, not camping as in stalling the timer. Camping as in forcing approach, which puts us in complete control. Our airdodge is so broken that we avoid Din's Fire without any trouble, so what option do you have as the timer runs out and we're not attacking?

 

[Snakeee]

Yeah, not camping as in stalling the timer. Camping as in forcing approach, which puts us in complete control. Our airdodge is so broken that we avoid Din's Fire without any trouble, so what option do you have as the timer runs out and we're not attacking?

Zelda really shouldn't use Din fire that much in general. Most characters have an aerial that can stop it, and at the times that she can do it safely she might be better off doing something else. She's not a character that's very strong in approaching. If Wario has the lead he can camp the match out if he wants and force the Zelda player to approach.

Zelda's out of shield options really help her in this match up IMO. She can deal with pressure, unlike most people probably think. I'd agree that the match up is about even too.

 

[PhantomX]

Yes, I know. I meant that Din's is of no use, meaning she has to approach, where she is weak... which you clarified XD

What are Zelda's good OOS options? Generally as Wario players we try to not let players use any OOS options via bite.

 

[Takumaru]

Dsmash, usmash, naryu's (sometimes...), dtilt, utilt, fsmash... you see where I'm going with this. It depends on where the opponent is when they hit her shield. I dunno about what her good options are against wario though. If he lands close enough for a bite she should be able to dsmash him. If he lands just outside of her range she can stutter step fsmash. Granted these are just ideas, I haven't had a chance to test them myself.

 

[Snakeee]

That sounds right to me.
Also, speaking of f-smash, I was curious if this was a known thing among other Zelda players.
-You can often follow up the weak hits of the move (when they DI it) into an up smash.

Sorry, if I'm sounding like a noob, but I've been playing Zelda from my own (and some of Ryoko's) knowledge. I haven't been on the Zelda boards, so I'm not sure where the rest of you are at, so I'm going to browse around here a bit. Btw, my style involves a lot of f-airs and b- airs lol.

 

[PhantomX]

That sounds right to me.
Also, speaking of f-smash, I was curious if this was a known thing among other Zelda players.
-You can often follow up the weak hits of the move (when they DI it) into an up smash.

Sorry, if I'm sounding like a noob, but I've been playing Zelda from my own (and some of Ryoko's) knowledge. I haven't been on the Zelda boards, so I'm not sure where the rest of you are at, so I'm going to browse around here a bit. Btw, my style involves a lot of f-airs and b- airs lol.

The funnest way to play her Yes, her OOS options are good, but not against Wario... as you don't really want to sit in shield against him.

Bite has this weird property whereby any move that involves physically leaning in towards Wario will get them sucked into it, while Wario takes some damage, but doesn't get knocked back (so it's like permanent grab armor). This works for things from Kirby's Fsmash to Ganon's Warlock Punch to MK's Shuttle Loop. Dsmash may be safe, as it's tiny, no (the leg)? It might avoid bite's huge radius. I think your uptilt may be safe as well, or a very well spaced fsmash (so only the sparkles hit Wario). If they are close and have missed, and you trust your timing, you can go for a grab after the missed bite, or attempt to hop over and backair. Generally bite forces people to never go into shield, unless of course you have something VERY quick and abusable.. preferably with a huge hitbox or some type of superarmor like Watch's/Marth's/Bowser's up b.

 

[Takumaru]

That's why I think dsmash might work because it's very quick (front hit on frame 4) and abusable. But bite could catch it. I'm not sure though. I'm not too experienced in the match up so I was just throwing an idea out there.

 

[DMG]

She's not a character that's very strong in approaching. If Wario has the lead he can camp the match out if he wants and force the Zelda player to approach.

^^^ This is what I was getting at with saying Wario could camp. She does indeed have a hard time catching him once he starts running.

 

[GreyFox86]

^^^ This is what I was getting at with saying Wario could camp. She does indeed have a hard time catching him once he starts running.

Well Zelda's approach isn't as good as others. Wario camping is kinda weird cause I've seen it. But against Zelda, I kinda see where its going. The only thing we have is Din's to knock Wario out of his camping and he can avoid it. But, if he doesn't go back to avoiding Zelda, he can be in our attacks for a while.

 

[Kataefi]

lmao it took me ages as well to realise who DMG was!

 

[Takumaru]

I dunno, I think I agree with the warios on this one. Zelda has to do a little guessing and be careful when wario starts to camp. I might agree with DMG that it's 45/55 wario's favor. But I suppose we did say just to leave it at 50/50 for now.

 

[Kataefi]

Yes for now. Because Wario causing Zelda to do mistakes is not her fault, it's whoever's playing her ^^ The more this matchup is played out, the more baiting he will have to do because Zelda's going to catch on eventually.

 

[DMG]

lmao it took me ages as well to realise who DMG was!

Lol. I do have a Wario avatar, and I was kinda talking about Wario a lot... But it's cool.

 

[Kataefi]

Yes but you're the doctor MARIO guy!
See the confusion??? haharrrr!!!

I was stupid enough to think DMG was an advanced tech of some sort until I read everything carefully. How stupid I felt <.<

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

bah. I suppose I'll give in some. if wario were lighter and zelda were heavier this would be our advantage, but I suppose that that is enough to even it up some.

I still always feel an edge against wario with zelda so, regardless of what the chart may say, I will always feel the matchup is at least 55:45 for us, but do as you wish with what you place as the oficial numbers... 55:45 and 50:50 will show up the same on most charts anyway

 

[MrEh]

And we love YOU, MrEh, for being a Hawaiian dude that doesn't overestimate grab releases on Wario, and for playing Boozer rather than surfing or lazing on the beach.

Haha. Hawaii is a pretty boring rock in the middle nowhere. What better place to spend time playing games all day?

Seriously though, as isolated as we are, there's a pretty big smash scene here. I know what crap Wario can do, and I know how hard the guy is to grab.

And for having an epic Sig and Avatar that I don't quite understand fully yet but rest assured it is epic.

My sig and avatar are here for everyone's entertainment.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Posted my summery of the matchup, hope its good enough, it is Wario biased though, sorry to say.

 

[sniperworm]

Posted my summery of the matchup, hope its good enough, it is Wario biased though, sorry to say.

Well you do main Wario, not Zelda. These things are to be expected.

Nice summary by the way.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Which were the preferred stages?

 

[-Mars-]

bah. I suppose I'll give in some. if wario were lighter and zelda were heavier this would be our advantage, but I suppose that that is enough to even it up some.

I still always feel an edge against wario with zelda so, regardless of what the chart may say, I will always feel the matchup is at least 55:45 for us, but do as you wish with what you place as the oficial numbers... 55:45 and 50:50 will show up the same on most charts anyway

If we're going to have Sonic as a 50-50 matchup, there is no way in hell that Wario is our advantage. Wario is like Sonic pumped up with HGH.