Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Well, I don't know the Zelda matchup too well...

...but I CAN contribute that Jungle Japes is a really good Falco stage. His phantasm goes between the various edges pretty much perfectly, and the fact that there are all of these gaps in the level into moving water make dair spikes into the water relatively common (compared to how often a Falco would usually get off-stage dairs).

Perhaps Zelda is one of the characters that can outcamp Falco from the middle platform... but unless you're really really sure of that, stay away from Japes against Falcos, most of them will love that stage and know it like the back of their hand.

hmm... if falco's lasers go to high from the side platforms, then we can just sit on the main platform and Din's all day. I suppose that wouldn't make the stage a problem then.

 

[J4pu]

The camping game isnt very fun but Falco still wins it, SHDL > shield Din's, or SHDL > Reflector will reflect it back and forth between Zelda and Falco until NL ends and Zelda takes the hit. There are some times where the laser just disappears but the majority of the time this has happened for me Zelda takes the hit.
Zelda does pretty well against Falco in the air because of Falco's short range aerial attacks and Zelda's high reward aerials. Falco doesn't normally fight on the ground but he has a quick long range Ftilt (if you don't believe me try it out, the range is deceiving). And of course Falco has his DACUS. Utilt is decent and Dtilt is situational, Dsmash is short range and Fsmash is slow to come out and probably outprioritized by Zelda's quicker Fsmash. Zelda has a mediocre Ftilt, bad dash attack. But Zelda's Dtilt, Fsmash, and Dsmash should be able to keep Falco at bay on the ground. Falco has a tough time DI'ing out of Zelda's smashes so we don't have that opportunity either.

All in all I'd say 60:40 in Zelda's favor is a good ratio.

 

[-Mars-]

Wow i'm just looking over Zelda's matchups and looking at it.............she goes close to even with a lot of the high tiers. I really can not bring myself to believe this, either she is just a solid overall character(not outstanding but effective, her moveset makes characters play differently, or she is being seriously overrated by us and other characters' mains.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Wow i'm just looking over Zelda's matchups and looking at it.............she goes close to even with a lot of the high tiers. I really can not bring myself to believe this, either she is just a solid overall character(not outstanding but effective, her moveset makes characters play differently, or she is being seriously overrated by us and other characters' mains.

I think metaknight is probably good enough to be bumped up to 60:40 in his favour. And I think peach and toon link have the advantage against us. otherwise, I think the matchups look pretty accurate. but that's nothing outstanding looking if you make those changes

 

[-Mars-]

I think metaknight is probably good enough to be bumped up to 60:40 in his favour. And I think peach and toon link have the advantage against us. otherwise, I think the matchups look pretty accurate. but that's nothing outstanding looking if you make those changes

I agree, I also think Diddy has an advantage over us no matter what anyone says otherwise. I don't think we have a **** matchup with the Ice Climbers either........at the very worst a 60:40. Just because we can keep them out of grab range doesn't mean we just destroy them.

I'm interested in how the Falco and ROB matchups are going to turn out. If people really do believe Zelda has an advantage on both of them, that means she beats 3 out of the 5 characters in the top tier............*squints*, I don't know so much about all that.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I agree, I also think Diddy has an advantage over us no matter what anyone says otherwise. I don't think we have a **** matchup with the Ice Climbers either........at the very worst a 60:40. Just because we can keep them out of grab range doesn't mean we just destroy them.

I'm interested in how the Falco and ROB matchups are going to turn out. If people really do believe Zelda has an advantage on both of them, that means she beats 3 out of the 5 characters in the top tier............*squints*, I don't know so much about all that.

Diddy I think is an even matchup.

I think we really DO do well against the ice climbers. I think the ICs are pretty bad without grabs and zelda negates that aspect of their gameplay.

I think we really DO beat out falco too, but no more than 60:40

ROB... people must be nuts. we beat a lot of what he's got, but we can't kill him.

so if we make those changes:
lose the advantage on diddy
accept the disadantage to MK
become disadvanataged to toonie
become disadvantaged to peach
go even with ROB at best

we don't look amazing. we look maybe a little underplaced, but not much

 

[GodAtHand]

^ That is what I love about Zelda, She is rarely at such a disadvantage that it is hopeless.

My input: I don't think we should lose the slight advantage on Diddy, I think we should lose the advantage on Peach, I think Toon Link should be even. That is all...

 

[-Mars-]

^ That is what I love about Zelda, She is rarely at such a disadvantage that it is hopeless.

My input: I don't think we should lose the slight advantage on Diddy, I think we should lose the advantage on Peach, I think Toon Link should be even. That is all...

Toon Link........is hard. I have to agree with Sonic on this matchup, all of the mini walls he puts up and his ability to stay just out of our range makes the little guy extremely difficult.

I suppose Diddy might be even because of how dangerous Zelda becomes with a banana in her hands. Our moveset is also superior to Diddy's without bananas.

She is a good character, the only extreme counterpick she has is G&W, and Sheik even makes that more manageable.

I really can't wait until we discuss Pika and Kirby, i'm itching to see what everyone else thinks on those two.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I'll change it once you all agree on it ^-^

MK I can see it as 40:60
All the others I need you to agree on it
I'm also considering changing ZSS to 50:50 but, it's right?

Edit : >_> We don't have an advantage on Peach D=

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'll change it once you all agree on it ^-^

MK I can see it as 40:60
All the others I need you to agree on it
I'm also considering changing ZSS to 50:50 but, it's right?

Edit : >_> We don't have an advantage on Peach D=

as in give peach the advantage maybe? I think she's got one. allbeit not an extremely large one (55:45-60:40)

ZSS I don't have any trouble with, but I haven't played any truly amazing ones. they both fight for spacing. I just thing zelda has an easier time getting the right spacing, but maybe it's even.

the difference between 55:45 and 50:50 is not big. and I'd petition it be neutral, but all the diddy mains thought we were hard too. so I guess maybe we keep that one?

toonie is awful awful I can't stand him. he's as bad if not worse than marth to fight against. it's awful.

MK is 60:40 in my eyes.

ROB we haven't done yet

 

[RoyalBlood]

as in give peach the advantage maybe? I think she's got one. allbeit not an extremely large one (55:45-60:40)

ZSS I don't have any trouble with, but I haven't played any truly amazing ones. they both fight for spacing. I just thing zelda has an easier time getting the right spacing, but maybe it's even.

the difference between 55:45 and 50:50 is not big. and I'd petition it be neutral, but all the diddy mains thought we were hard too. so I guess maybe we keep that one?

toonie is awful awful I can't stand him. he's as bad if not worse than marth to fight against. it's awful.

MK is 60:40 in my eyes.

ROB we haven't done yet

XD THe peach part was for God at Hand

I have played some troublesome ZSS >_> they're hard (for me at least)

ALL should agree or a minority with proofs XD

MK yes 40 --> Zelda 60---> MK lol

 

[Kataefi]

I personally think:

- 55:45 Zelda's advantage against Diddy (they think it could be 60:40 on their boards to Zelda)
- 60:40 MK's advantage
- 50:50 even with Toon Link
- 50:50 or 55:45 Peach's advantage against Zelda
- 50:50 or 55:45 Zelda's advantage against Rob
- 65:35 Ice Climbers

Also, looking at it:

60:40 Falco
60:40 Dedede

Diddy is **** on a lot of characters, but Zelda has a wicked spotdodge, reflector, range on her attacks, killpower. She eliminates his aerial approaches, she causes his banana approaches trouble. She's light, but he lacks killpower... and she'll kill him far earlier than vice versa.

MK is standard. He ***** everyone.

Toon Link is debatable, but he can't WoP easily, his smashes are outranged, victim to fresh DSmash, cannot go aerial again because of our USmash, and he dies at low percents against her.

Peach is debatable, I mean you'd think Zelda would be great against her because of USmash, but she has great mindgames. But if Zelda is on the ball and isn't easily baited, I reckon 50:50 easily, possibly even 55:45 Zelda (but that's seriously pushing it >.>)

Rob is like a harder D3, but only slightly harder. Susceptible to dair spikes, below average killpower, projectiles that are easy to see coming. Plus he's an easy target for LKs I find. I have no serious problems with Robs, then again I don't play many that often. He's just really clunky, clumsy and easy to bait with din's and catch in USmash...

Ice Climbers is her advantage.

She's definitely anti-falco.

And she's definitely anti-dedede!

LOVE IT! These are just personal thoughts from my own experience, but I still I don't think she does all that badly!

 

[GodAtHand]

Yes, I meant that Peach should be listed as having a slight advantage on Zelda.

Diddy= Either 60-40 or 55-45 Zelda
Meta= I think it should stay the way it is, but I don't really care
Toon Link= I think personally that it is even, but I don't have a lot of experience in this matchup
Falco= I think it should be even, but I don't have a lot of experience again.
DDD= Zelda definate advantage prob 60-40
Rob= I think it is even

 

[Bandit]

ROB... people must be nuts. we beat a lot of what he's got, but we can't kill him.

go even with ROB at best

What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, this has to be a joke.

ROB has 3 kill moves. Nair, Bair, USmash. Nair and Bair are both beat by our Dair and can be seen coming from a mile away. Nair is extremely easy to DI and weakens quickly. Bair is most likely to kill you. Usmash is his most powerful, but it should never hit with its start up time. If you bring up full charged gyro, then I say you're not paying attention at all. You can see it coming, just like the Usmash.

ROB eats Dins all day off the ledge because he can't air dodge after he UpB's. Dins disintegrates his gyro. *** and dtilt stop the gyro. NL > Gyro. Dtilt beats his FTilt. Our ground game has more speed. He has Fair in the air, and that's it.

If you are having problems beating a ROB with Zelda, then you are not paying attention to anything he is doing. Get off the stage and go attack him in the air. He may seem strong, but he at a disadvantage the moment he upB's or starts charging his gyro.

One last thing, he has no answer for Usmash. If he is in range for it, he gets hit by it.

This match-up is 60-40 Zelda.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4805684&highlight=zelda#post4805684

If you want to know the credibility of my statements... I play vs JCaesar all the time and am also in Nacker's region. They are only the two best ROBs on the east coast. (JCaesar just got 9th at C3). In fact, he was right here when I made this post, so that's why Zelda beats ROB.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

robs nair and dair both go through Usmash. but we'll talk on him more once it's his turn.

It sounds like Pika, Kirby and ROB (especially ROB) have the most interest for the next character.

*wonders where the pic of ROB dressed like Ridly saying "Do you love me now?" went*

 

[saviorslegacy]

I say the match up is about even. Both have reflecters and good smashes. However, Zelda is a big target.... and light. So I grab her often and laser her, even though I always seem to miss her with my laser . (That sentence sounds sick wouldn't you agree? :/ )

I she also has that up smash so all is not lost foe her. I found F
Djins Fire to be the muscle behind this match up.

So yeah, I say even.

 

[Kataefi]

I'm still saying a solid 60:40 advantage against Falco for reasons already stated. No one's really given anything of great substance to back Falco in this matchup.

Din's should always be avoided. It's rare he'll ever get hit except maybe during recovery, but she'll be going for the gimp then anyways rather than build up damage. Zelda's difficult to grab. She's tall, not fat xD plus Falco's grab isn't all that great.

Falco has FSmash, USmash and Dair as his main kill moves. Bair and Uair can be seen as secondary kill moves. Practically the majority of Zelda's moveset are main kill moves against him. Might I also add that this is one of the few matchups where Zelda's Fair and Bair are extremely handy and outrange and often trade hits with some of his aerials.

I'd love to do kirby or pika next!

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Riot. If Zelda does that good against ROB, which I never realized, help me work on my Zelda at MM. Or whenever. Please. I have so much stupid trouble against ROB.

 

[GodAtHand]

Unless White Mage is there I don't know if I will be able to help you against ROB because I have only played a good one once. ****ty ones a couple of times but they really shouldn't count. I will try though 0_0

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

This is more a make my Zelda less crap request. Since, y'know, you're easily the best Zelda main in Ma and all. That way, the next time I have to go up against a Rob I'll be confident enough to potentially have a decent counter pick option.

 

[RoyalBlood]

So is Falco done? >_> <_<

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

you could give it another day but so far it looks 60:40 Mansion

 

[JigglyZelda003]

they might as well call luigi mansion Zeldas at this rate. lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

well it's clear why: it denys most projectile spam. she has a hard time dealing with projectile spam. it also hinders most KOs but leaves her Dsmash untouched.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

also with the exception of her retro colors she blends in well with the stage.

back on tipic. so after Falco who are we planning to move onto next?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

pika, ROB, Olimar and Kirby would all be fine for me.

those are my votes!

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well Olimar has Zelda as 75-25 their advantage and DANgr?? runs the match-up thread so i guess he made that change, after all Olimar is no worse than Mr. G&W right? RIGHT?!?! :3

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Well Olimar has Zelda as 75-25 their advantage and DANgr?? runs the match-up thread so i guess he made that change, after all Olimar is no worse than Mr. G&W right? RIGHT?!?! :3

not at all. he's not easy. but I find snake, peach, meta knight, toon link, marth and game and watch harder

 

[-Mars-]

not at all. he's not easy. but I find snake, peach, meta knight, toon link, marth and game and watch harder

I'd much rather fight any of those characters than Olimar.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i'd actually like to do Olimar, seeing as i have trouble fighting him as Zelda.

 

[RoyalBlood]

There you go girls ;3 whoops i mean guys ;3

 

[TigerWoods]

Be Peach.. Oli-"gRAPE!!

U'm the blasted yellow pikmin can survive the lightning kicks. Multihit smashes = other pikmin death though...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

al least nair, nayru's and farore's knock them off fine.

I'm currently a bit busy. I might say more later.

 

[Kaffei]

I don't find Olimar too hard.

Don't use Nayru's if his Pikmin get stuck on you, because Nayru's end lag leaves you vulnerable.
Use something faster. I'm not sure if SHFFNair works, so I'll experiment with it later..

Don't get too close, or too far; sounds tricky, but it's possible.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

but if you use nayru's BEFORE they latch, they might latch on HIM. which is very nice.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

I just have a specific quick question for my own general knoweldge.

Why is it I can't seem to reflect Pikachu's Thunder without taking the hit? Is the only way to do it safely to reflect it so the sides of Naryu's hits the thunder but her body doesn't?

It seems that since it passes through Naryu's Love it should be hers before it touches her but that doesn't seem to happen in practice. The only other thing I can think is that it's not one beam but a series of them like Bowser/Charizard's flame and I'm only reflecting parts and the hits me as the Naryu's ends.

Just wondering on that one thing, not trying to leap ahead, and this seemed better than making a seperate thread.

EDIT: I just saw the Naryu's Love vs. Projectiles thread. I don't know how I never noticed it before. Le sigh. I'll have to read through there, before I ask in there but I guess since I already wrote this I might as well leave it here if someone can answer it.

::shame::

I feel like such noob now.

 

[Villi]

Nair is a good move to get Pikmin off of her. Dtilt is also decent. Be sure not to be distracted cuz he might just be Pikmin throwing to bait a punishable response. Keep your eye on him. Fire attacks won't get red Pikmin off. Upsmash won't get yellow Pikmin off (lightning elemental attack... she has a couple more that I can't remember aside from lightning kicks... I think it's fsmash and maybe jab but those hitboxes are pretty meh for this purpose anyway).

If you can predict when he will Pikmin throw you (he has a white or purple coming up) Naryu's is great to throw in to reflect them. Being able to count Pikmin works very well against certain meticulous Olis.

Here's some info to keep in mind...

There's not much to know about Olimar's Pikmin from the other side except for better predicting what Olimar will do depending on which Pikmin is/are coming up.

Red Pikmin have the strongest aerials. They'll probably be thrown or repositioned if you're not in aerial range.

Yellow Pikmin have the biggest hitboxes and priority so watch out.

Blue Pikmin have long grab range and strong back and forward throws. Nothing special you can do except have good DI if you get grabbed.

Purple Pikmin... It's kind of difficult to guess what someone wants to do with them. Usually, they go for smash attacks because they're powerful. If it's second in line, they might turn around and use a down smash so they don't have to waste time switching and it's a fast attack. If you get grabbed by a purple Pikmin (lolwhut?), DI horizontaly cuz he'll do an up throw. I just play defensively until it's gone.

White Pikmin he'll likely throw if you're not in grab range. They have the fastest grab, long range, and strong grab pummels, so he'll wanna grab you with them.

Order of Pikmin after a whistle is red, yellow, blue, white, purple. Usually I just count how many attacks (count 2 for dsmash) he needs to do before the white or purple one arrives. If he has a favorite Pikmin not white or purple, like if he's partial to yellow for priority I'll watch out for that too. If he whistles and throws Pikmin away (or at you knowing you'll kill them), try to figure out which Pikmin he seems to like.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

not that Villi's post isn't in depth enough, but here's the olimar board's official info on pikmin thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185696

 

[Half-Split Soul]

The most dangerous to Zelda are usually yellow Pikmin, because they can go through her U- and F-smashes and all aerials except Uair, cause a bit more damage when latched on you, have good priority and cause the longest hitstun.

The reasons why Olimar is hard are his good range, his ability to cause lots of damage quickly and his good KO moves. If he has yellow Pikmin, he can grab or smash through Zelda´s F-smash and F-tilt and his purple Pikmins kill very early.

Good thing for Zelda is that she is almost impervious to Olimar´s spikes, so he loses one of his best ways to kill. Her Uair is also wonderful for killing Olimar, because it´s disjointed and Olimar is floaty. Olimar also has only tether recovery so he usually doesn´t have to many choices to recover. If he has purple Pikmin next in the line, he can throw those, but otherwise he´s vulnerable to spikes or edgehogs. If he´s coming down he can use D-b´s ruper armor to protect himself from an attack.

In the air he can use multible Fairs or Bairs into spike or just to cause damage, but if they get shielded, he can be U-smashed. His ground game is good against Zelda, because it´s wonderful for damaging from afar and he can kill with his OoS options if he blocks your forced approach.

His grab range is excellent and his throws are strong enough to kill, so he can use grabs after an attack to both damage or kill. Good thing is that his grab can sometimes be stopped with attack (D-tilt or -smash for example) by hittting the Pikmin.

Zelda´s downsmash is good in killing him, because he can´t adjust his U-b timing when recovering from it, making edgehogging easy. LKs are hard to land on him due to his small size. Nayru is good for getting him further away, but that isn´t as useful against Olimar as it is against many other chars. It also can reflect Pikmins, but often it just hits them. If olimar is close enough, he can punish with throw. The most important thing to remember is not to panic when he throws Pikmins.

I´d say 65:35 or 70:30 Olimar´s advantage, because he can make Zelda approach and punish it very well while making her gain damage almost continuously. Propably 65:35 due to the possible early stock loses for Olimar.

 

[Kataefi]

I'm just in the clouds with what to do as Zelda against Olimar. I find this a really hard matchup for her. I find it hard spacing myself because of pikmin spam, and his attacks are quite confusing.

Her only saving grace is DSmash. It's perfect at killing him. The only problem is racking up the damage to kill him in the first place. He just seems to outrange everything I have on the ground whilst being able to latch pikmin and build up tons of damage fast. When I use Nair, he normally dives in to use his Uair and continue to try and juggle me about.

What I do know is that his pikmin attacks have some of the lowest priority in the game. Maybe Zelda's dtilt is great at knocking them away or clashing?

I'd say Zelda does great with Sheik, or just use Sheik alone. But Zelda alone it's defiinitely over 60:40, no worse than 70:30 for me =(