Who has the worst grab game?

[Brinzy]

Hey guys, I just want to clear something up. By grab game, I don't mean just their grab, but also all their throws, their pummel and all that stuff.

Then the answer is Zelda.

Thread over.

Zelda's b-throw at least has some power, and d-throw can set up.

Her damage is really the only thing good about her throws. Also, d-throw is atrocious unless you use it by an edge. All you have to do is DI away from her; she can't do anything about it.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Then the answer is Zelda.

Thread over.



Her damage is really the only thing good about her throws. Also, d-throw is atrocious unless you use it by an edge. All you have to do is DI away from her; she can't do anything about it.

Zelda has more range, does more overall damage, and has more knockback in her throws, compared to some other characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Zelda has the best grab game because she has the coolest animations.

Oh, except for Charizard's down throw. Talk about visual ****.

 

[gm jack]

Zelda has more range, does more overall damage, and has more knockback in her throws, compared to some other characters.

However, her grabbing is very slow, and her throws have too little power to KO at anything reasonable. They also do too much to give reasonable follow ups. The best she can is throw up and hope they do something stupid and run into Usmash or Uair.

 

[Frown]

Link's.

I mean, it's just embarrassing to watch that clawshot fall to the ground and wait for Link to pull it up.

 

[Sukai]

Zelda has no set ups, unlike Samus (ZSS included), despite her apparently long range, the start up and cool down are forever, so she can barely shieldgrab unlike Toon Link, who can.
You can break out before she can pummel you. The throws may do decent damage, but she has far better options that are not only safer, but do about as much damage or more.

It's Zelda.

 

[Kataefi]

However, her grabbing is very slow, and her throws have too little power to KO at anything reasonable. They also do too much to give reasonable follow ups. The best she can is throw up and hope they do something stupid and run into Usmash or Uair.

jack don't forget that every time you dtilt trip, it's a free grab. It's also a free grab if they happen to throw their shield up from the lock. It's also a free grab if you hit dtilt fresh at later percents before they pop up. There's a large percentage window from jab where a grab is possible straight after providing they get a hard landing and that extra lag.

I'll agree she does have the worst grab in the game, but she has guaranteed setups into it as well as OoS. And they're also above average damage-wise. Dthrow is a good chase, Uthrow sets up for Uair... start chasing airdodges =D

She has the worst grab, but I don't think she has the worst grab game That's my $2

Spoiler

boy am I feeling optimistic today =D

edit: looks like I posted just in time for knuxrouge's post as well

edit: SoR she has a grab release on wario to lightning kick. But that's it lol. I think her actual grab has a different utility to conventional grabs in the game... I prefer landing it from an attack I hit such as dtilt or jab rather than conventional means. It does work OoS... just not against aerials that autocancel to quick jabs. I'd also like to point out that whilst Uthrow > Uair is a limited option, it's also a very powerful option. If it hits, you've probably just killed.

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda has more range, does more overall damage, and has more knockback in her throws, compared to some other characters.

More range at the cost of a slower start-up. Seriously, the range doesn't even mean that much because many characters have enough shieldstun and push on so many reliable attacks that she can't even dash grab anyone reliably unless it's on a trip. She's never gonna standing grab a competent player out of shield because they're either pushing her too far back for the grab or they're not in 11 frames of lag AND in range for the grab to work. Standing grab will never grab anyone unless they just make a huge mistake. Pivot grab is decent as a mixup, but even then you can punish it on reaction. All of her grabs can be beaten on reaction.

You get the grab, you pummel for 3% at best (which actually rarely happens in a real match - she's almost always doing 2%... so maybe 5% above 100%), and then you throw them somewhere. You might as well pick her most damaging throw. You get a total of, I'll say to be fair to her, 17% out of two pummels + b-throw. Her throws are very bad, and we're not really gonna go into more detail about that. All she can do is U-throw and hope to U____ someone.

She has no grab releases except for, what, ground-releasing a mother boy by the edge and then keeping them there, or using Dsmash.

All of this is part of why Zelda is so ridiculously easy to deal with. She's so easy to kill if you just shield anything of hers but an Fsmash at about max range. If she's trying to grab you, you can react to it either with a fast jab or a spotdodge. Grab range is ridiculously overrated when it comes to Zelda. If you're trying to space for a grab like that, you're better off using *anything else* she has. If you're trying to grab OoS, you're better off using her amazing OoS game that doesn't involve her grab in the slightest over a subpar option like grab. Unless you can legitimately catch someone off guard and unless you suck at lightning kicking or if you just don't know when you should be using that frame 6 Usmash, frame 5 dtilt, or frame 5 Dsmash, you really have no real reason to grab with this character because of how bad it is. The fact that it's her only option against shielding worsens things even more.

Most other characters gain something by throwing their opponent somewhere, either with a chaingrab, positioning that includes more than Zelda's gameplan of "throw them up and hope to hit someone with this obvious blast of fire", or resetting spacing so they can use their good projectiles to deal with their opponents. What you say is a fact, but it can potentially completely blanket its flaws.

jack don't forget that every time you dtilt trip, it's a free grab. It's also a free grab if they happen to throw their shield up from the lock. It's also a free grab if you hit dtilt fresh at later percents before they pop up. There's a large percentage window from jab where a grab is possible straight after providing they get a hard landing and that extra lag.

At the lowest damages, dtilt gives the opponent frame advantage.

At the locking percentages... it's a lock.

In a certain window, it doesn't give frame advantage and it's not a lock. That's the only time you should really be using her grab after a trip... well, that and if you trip them right before they SDI out of dtilt's range during the lock. That said, Dsmash provides far better positioning than all of her throws, ftilt is better at the lower window area because it's stronger than the throws and you don't risk your opponent getting out after a pummel, and on some characters, you are far better off with a lightning kick.

The shielding part during the lock is more or less fooling your opponent, and it works, but if they're SDIing away from you and dtilt is still reaching, they're probably looking to jab you or to get away from you. If they're moving away, the time it takes for a dash grab to come out is enough time for them to be out of dash grab range.If they're not moving anywhere, then by all means go for the grab, but a player not moving anywhere while getting hit by the dtilt lock is likely a bad player. As for the fresh dtilt right before they pop up, assuming that isn't a trip... you're better off dtilting and having another chance at a trip.

 

[Noa.]

Zelda has the worst grab game. You can avoid the grab on reaction. And in the likely case you do get a grab, not much comes out of it.

 

[Kataefi]

Successor... don't forget, the lock still trips... they will SDI most likely, but they're inevitably going to trip, and this is when the grab comes into play. Factoring this, you can get 30% damage and you haven't even begun to use the full extent of dtilt's locking properties because you've only hit like 3 times and refreshed those 3 times with a pummel(s) and throw that does 15-20% tops (thus increasing a trip chance of the next lock you decide to do). This is very possible. It may be gimmicky, but it does a hell of a lot of damage if you get it right.

You can also tech chase very well from a trip into a grab. Villi used to do this all the time iirc to success. And just to reiterate, whilst Uthrow > Uair is predictable, what exactly is the opponent going to do when you're right beneath them in the air? It's a death situation, and it's instinctive to airdodge. Zelda being horizontally faster in the air than more than half the cast allows her to chase well in this situation; it's a predictable but very powerful option. We as players just need to start chasing airdodges a tad bit better =p

edit:: I guess it's pretty much decided by everyone then that she has the worst grab game... I still disagree (I feel a bit rebellious lol hahaha!), I guess I'm just a bit overly optimistic =p

 

[Low Rider1717]

ZSS has a ******** grab imo
u miss and u take like a good 5 seconds to put it back, but i still think that Samus has the worst grab game

 

[zeldspazz]

Uuummm, I dont think Zelda's grab game is anywhere near good, but its not the worst. It has long range, and her dthrow can setup for a running upsmash or Lightning kick at low percentages if the opponent isnt expecting it. I've killed with a bthrow at times, but her other 2 throws I have to admit are utter trash >.< All u have to do is not throw out a grab every 2 seconds, do it when your sure it will connect. This is my opinion however.

As far as who I think has the worst, I'm going to be honest and say I have no idea. I'm leaning toward Samus and Jiggs.

EDIT: Gaah never mind her grab game DOES suck.....I hate you Raphael you are too smart >.<

 

[Ray_Kalm]

More range at the cost of a slower start-up. Seriously, the range doesn't even mean that much because many characters have enough shieldstun and push on so many reliable attacks that she can't even dash grab anyone reliably unless it's on a trip. She's never gonna standing grab a competent player out of shield because they're either pushing her too far back for the grab or they're not in 11 frames of lag AND in range for the grab to work. Standing grab will never grab anyone unless they just make a huge mistake. Pivot grab is decent as a mixup, but even then you can punish it on reaction. All of her grabs can be beaten on reaction.

The same could be said for Ganon and maybe Falcon (Falcon's grab is just like Ganon's, but with more range, more chance of follow-ups, faster pummels, and could actually grab small characters). The speed doesn't even mean that much if the shield pushback is enough to keep the opponent out of his pathetic grab range. He's never going to be able to grab a competent player because of the same reason as Zelda as well, the pushback.

You get the grab, you pummel for 3% at best (which actually rarely happens in a real match - she's almost always doing 2%... so maybe 5% above 100%), and then you throw them somewhere. You might as well pick her most damaging throw. You get a total of, I'll say to be fair to her, 17% out of two pummels + b-throw. Her throws are very bad, and we're not really gonna go into more detail about that. All she can do is U-throw and hope to U____ someone.

Zelda's pummels are both faster and do more damage than Ganon's, enough said. Ganon doesn't have any true follow-ups either.

She has no grab releases except for, what, ground-releasing a mother boy by the edge and then keeping them there, or using Dsmash.

The only decent grab releases Ganon has are on Warios, but then again, Warios could always smash DI away from his slow moves.

All of this is part of why Zelda is so ridiculously easy to deal with. She's so easy to kill if you just shield anything of hers but an Fsmash at about max range. If she's trying to grab you, you can react to it either with a fast jab or a spotdodge. Grab range is ridiculously overrated when it comes to Zelda. If you're trying to space for a grab like that, you're better off using *anything else* she has. If you're trying to grab OoS, you're better off using her amazing OoS game that doesn't involve her grab in the slightest over a subpar option like grab. Unless you can legitimately catch someone off guard and unless you suck at lightning kicking or if you just don't know when you should be using that frame 6 Usmash, frame 5 dtilt, or frame 5 Dsmash, you really have no real reason to grab with this character because of how bad it is. The fact that it's her only option against shielding worsens things even more.

Once again, the same could be said for Ganon. Though, unlike Zelda, his smashes, or OoS options don't come out on frames 6, 5, and 5. His fastest move is, well, his grab. Frame 7. His fastest smash comes out on frame 15.

Most other characters gain something by throwing their opponent somewhere, either with a chaingrab, positioning that includes more than Zelda's gameplan of "throw them up and hope to hit someone with this obvious blast of fire", or resetting spacing so they can use their good projectiles to deal with their opponents. What you say is a fact, but it can potentially completely blanket its flaws.

Most other characters, Ganon's not one of them. The best he could do is 1 pummel due to how slow it comes out (which will most likely do 1%-2%) to a F-throw, it'll do around 14% damage. That's about what most other characters get out of their grab.

At the lowest damages, dtilt gives the opponent frame advantage.

At the locking percentages... it's a lock.

In a certain window, it doesn't give frame advantage and it's not a lock. That's the only time you should really be using her grab after a trip... well, that and if you trip them right before they SDI out of dtilt's range during the lock. That said, Dsmash provides far better positioning than all of her throws, ftilt is better at the lower window area because it's stronger than the throws and you don't risk your opponent getting out after a pummel, and on some characters, you are far better off with a lightning kick.

Ganon can't grab a trip if he's even slightly away from the opponent, AT ALL. He's probably the only character that can't techchase a roll away from him. Pair up his crappy grab range, and his running speed, he's just too slow. All of his grabs are 1 frame below average.

 

[Sosuke]

How can you guys not easily see Toon Link has the worst grab? lol
It's pretty like, CLEAR.

 

[Tien2500]

ZSS has a ******** grab imo
u miss and u take like a good 5 seconds to put it back, but i still think that Samus has the worst grab game

ZSS also has chaingrabs on several characters a decent pummel attack and her throws put enemies in the air where you want them. The length also can help at times. Its not a good grab (although 5 seconds is quite an exaggeration) but it has its uses. Unlike some other characters...

 

[UberMario]

Olimar without Pikmin.

Samus' a close second.

 

[smashkng]

Ray Kalm, can characters really DI a grab release?

 

[Hence]

The worst grab or the worst throws after they grab?

Worst grab: Samus, Ice Climbers, Zelda, and Zero Suit Samus.

Worst grab follow ups: Zelda, Samus, ZSS. (IMO)

 

[Hence]

Ray Kalm, can characters really DI a grab release?

No, although it is possible to SDI ground releases a very small ammount.

 

[mountain_tiger]

The worst grab or the worst throws after they grab?

Worst grab: Samus, Ice Climbers, Zelda, and Zero Suit Samus.

Worst grab follow ups: Zelda, Samus, ZSS. (IMO)

A combination of both.

And can't ZSS chaingrab some characters to 60%?

 

[Frown]

Girls suck at grabbing.

Especially Nana.

 

[Hence]

Yes, but it is rather impractical because her grab is so terrible.

...and it is difficult to pull off because it must be buffered.
As Steeler said previously, she also has air release and grab release cominations. Both of these are less damaging than most other character's throws, though.

Girls suck at grabbing.

Especially Nana.

Nodnod.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Dedede has the worst grab game.

 

[AnDaLe]

Oli without piki

 

[AnDaLe]

Dedede has the worst grab game.

trolllllllllllllllllllll

 

[lil cj]

Lucas/ZSS because its very laggy if it misses and they can be punished for it
Also Pit and Zelda because its extremely slow

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Dedede has the worst grab game.

This.

I mean, come on people, think about it.
First, you've got this awful grab range. I mean, if Snake perfectly spaces his ftilt, you can't shieldgrab him out of it. Then there's the terrible grabs. I mean, come on. What can you do? The 25+ damage you get with the dthrow chaingrab is pathetic in comparison to what some other chars can do (many can 0-death with throws!), and the 16 damage bthrow is pathetic. All the other throws don't lead into anything worth doing (uthrow to uair is just not enough damage to make grabbing worthwhile, and fthrow doesn't do ****). Combine that with the massive 3-5 frame lag on the normal grab and massive rapeable lag on the dashgrab and DDD's throw game is just awful. TBH, I don't see what people see about this character. His recovery sucks too, as does his range... he's terrible.

@an8676: How dare you call the truth a troll? I mean, it's pretty obvious and you must be a TOTAL noob to think otherwise.

 

[:mad:]

This thread is horrible.

 

[smashkng]

Lucas

But Lucas has very powerful throws, it can't be the worst.

 

[Supreme65]

The links, ZSS, Lucas, olimar and anyother character with tethal grabs. If they grab and miss they'll be exposed to any attack. Be real creative and confuse your opponents w/ attack patterns before a grab.

 

[kirbywizard]

The links, ZSS, Lucas, olimar and anyother character with tethal grabs. If they grab and miss they'll be exposed to any attack. Be real creative and confuse your opponents w/ attack patterns before a grab.

I died a little inside. . . . .

 

[mountain_tiger]

This thread is horrible.

In hindsight, this probably should have gone in general discussion (though why it got bumped I don't know). Could someone lock it please?

 

[GGrandhustle305]

I'll say ZSS it is a good grab indeed. But if you miss that's just a nice free hit for you to get o_O
My friend mains ZSS though he uses that grab like a beast o_O

 

[Supamahn]

Definitely Ice Climbers. Like seriously, you can't do anything with their grabs. No chaingrabbing or nothing. It's ICs. :D

 

[djm111]

Seriously if IC's couldn't CG theirs would be one of the worst with their god awe full grab range, and throws that don't do anything and can't be followed up on much except d-throw at low %'s.

But otherwise, Zelda and ZSS have terrible grabs, but ZSS's throws are actually quite good and Zelda's b-throw at least has some power, and d-throw can set up. Samus just has a bad grab game overall, and TL does too.

IC's could still put in a smash or two from a grab, and you have tons of followups from a Nana grab release. People just never look into their grab releases because CGing is always a better option.

 

[GGrandhustle305]

Definitely Ice Climbers. Like seriously, you can't do anything with their grabs. No chaingrabbing or nothing. It's ICs. :D

Yeah that's why when i play i never fight ground wise. I usually just do air attacks till i can get nana away then go hurry up and **** her xD

But when you get grabbed....its so gay T_T

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Lucas/ZSS because its very laggy if it misses and they can be punished for it
Also Pit and Zelda because its extremely slow

You can Pivot grab to reduce the lag.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Ice Climbers has the best grab game no doubt. Who could ask for a better grab game then zero to death?
I don't know people are saying Samus for...her grab range balances out and copes for the lag, but I believe Sheik has the worst grab game.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Martha Stewart.

 

[UncleSam]

Martha Stewart.

A drunk man...



no really probably lucas