Who has the best/worst jab in the game?

[Geou]

Falco's jab isn't actually that great. While it comes out fast, if Falco does anything but continue the jab combo, the opponent can interrupt it because its stun is so low.

 

[Nefarious B]

ZSS's isn't great because most characters can powershield the third hit. She also doesn't have any jab cancel tricksies. Really it's good only because it's frame one, but squirtles is definitely better.

 

[GwJ]

@gm jack - You're missing the point. This isn't a general move discussion, this is a jab discussion. Technically DTilt, Dsmash and Nayru's love aren't jabs. We're comparing jabs, not jabs and other similar moves.

 

[Seagull Joe]

wolf's jab rules.

 

[GwJ]

I sense bias.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I really never understood why Ike's jab is that good compared to anyone else.

Hitstun (+11 when the opponent doesn't jump, +7 when the opponent does), great range for a jab, combos into many things, ect.

 

[Hence]

I like using Jigglypuff's neutral a ground attack when the opponent is charging a powerful blow.

 

[GwJ]

That could be said with the majority of the cast. But most of them would probably say "I like using *character's* grab/fast attack when the opponent is charging a powerful blow."

 

[Affinity]

Best: Ike/Snake

Worst: MK

 

[GwJ]

Why do you guys really think MK's is the worst?

 

[Veggi]

It's slower than his down smash, he can be hit out of it even while he's hitting the opponent, it does very little damage, high lag, bad range, and can be beaten out easily.

 

[Matador]

Ike's jabs are considered good because they give him a far better frame advantage than anyone else in the game. The only problem have with this is Ike's so slow that he can't utilize this as much as nearly any other character can. He has options, of course...he's not THAT slow.

I'm just saying if Kirby or Marth (somebody with fast aerials/smashes) had his jabs instead, they'd be broken.

 

[Kitamerby]

What's always bugged me about MK's jab is if you're getting hit out of it, shouldn't you just be, oh, I don't know... ending earlier?

It doesn't have very much endlag at all in reality. It just keeps going after you release the button for awhile. So just time your release better.


Zelda's jab is the worst. Pitiful damage, no use at all, horrible speed, can't be canceled, etc.


Also, another reason Ike's jabs are good is because they do 16 ****ing percent.

 

[gm jack]

@gm jack - You're missing the point. This isn't a general move discussion, this is a jab discussion. Technically DTilt, Dsmash and Nayru's love aren't jabs. We're comparing jabs, not jabs and other similar moves.

My point was that her neutral A isn't even a jab. The only things it has on its side are decent range and cooldown lag. I think it is the slowest jab in the game, does very little damage and leads to nothing but a dash attack at certain decays and percents. And if you misjudge that, you get heavily punished.

It isn't like MK's jab, where it is good, but he always has better moves. Zelda's has a very limited potential as a defensive move, and other than that, it is useless.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Eh...It seems alright to me...

 

[Matador]

Also, another reason Ike's jabs are good is because they do 16 ****ing percent.

Yeah, the damage AND range are both nice, as well as where they position the opponent.

The frame advantage is what separates him from the rest though. I personally believe Luigi has the best jabs, mainly because he has so many amazing options out of jab cancel that it's always a dangerous position to be in.

Jab -> dthrow -> into Luigi's ridiculous aerials

Jab -> Dsmash

Jab -> Bthrow (15 or 16% I think)

Jab -> upB

Jab -> directly into one of his aerials

or you could simply complete the jab combo.

There was a thread awhile back that I agreed with. It generally stated that Ike's options from jab are more consistent than Luigi's, however Luigi's were more devastating. Even if Luigi's options AREN'T as reliable, they're all viable options at the highest levels of play; just not guaranteed.

 

[theONEjanitor]

relative to their movesets:

ike, luigi, peach, and sheik all have S-tier jabs

snake/falco/zss is close behind

and why are people saying "this jab is bad because [something about the third hit]"

lol I use snake's jab probably more than any other attack, and I almost never do the whole jab combo. the jab combo has little to do with why jabs are good lol

Falco's jab isn't actually that great. While it comes out fast, if Falco does anything but continue the jab combo, the opponent can interrupt it because its stun is so low.

half the entire purpose of jabs is for A. interruption and B. mindgames
not what auto combos they lead into
watch good falcos, they find plenty of things to do after jab

 

[lil cj]

My votes for S tier

Ike, Snake, Lucas, Falco, ZSS, Peach, and Sheik

Really i think the ones that can jab cancel and combo
have the best jabs
Ike, Lucas, and ZSS have very good jab cancel combos

F tier would have to be
MK, Ganon, Pikachu, ICs, and Olimar

Still no one mentions Lucas...his jab is just as good as Ike's
Has the same speed,priority, and combo capabilities(actually more than Ike)
It just doesnt have as much range as Ike's

 

[Veggi]

What's always bugged me about MK's jab is if you're getting hit out of it, shouldn't you just be, oh, I don't know... ending earlier?

It doesn't have very much endlag at all in reality. It just keeps going after you release the button for awhile. So just time your release better.


Zelda's jab is the worst. Pitiful damage, no use at all, horrible speed, can't be canceled, etc.


Also, another reason Ike's jabs are good is because they do 16 ****ing percent.

MK's jab leaves him devoted to doing that action for a set period of time. If you don't hit them, he's stuck in that animation for a good amount of time. While the character is inside MK's sword swings they can shield and punish you. When you end it is irrelevant because you are still punishable and the move has ending lag that makes it unsafe.

 

[Dragoomba]

My votes for S tier

Ike, Snake, Lucas, Falco, ZSS, Peach, and Sheik

Really i think the ones that can jab cancel and combo
have the best jabs
Ike, Lucas, and ZSS have very good jab cancel combos

F tier would have to be
MK, Ganon, Pikachu, ICs, and Olimar

Still no one mentions Lucas...his jab is just as good as Ike's
Has the same speed,priority, and combo capabilities(actually more than Ike)
It just doesnt have as much range as Ike's

I would replace Ganon with Jiggly for F-tier.

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda jab is pretty bad. Hits on frame 9 I think which is only 1 frame faster then a game and watch dsmash. Doesn't combo into anything, and the damage isn't too much nor is the range. Also because of it's cool down and priority it's not very good at being spammed either.

It's not all that great, but some corrections...

It's frame 11 (and not even disjointed then).

It combos into dash attack and ftilt at certain %s.

The cooldown on it is amazing. It is great for many SH approaches because of the hitboxes and the priority. I don't think we should be basing a Jab off of how well it can be spammed.

Zelda's Jab isnt' that bad. It might be slow for a jab, but it's still fast and little cool down time. It's a great get out of my face move.

It's a horrible get out of my face move. It's a defensive move designed to combat aerial approaches that Usmash can't reach. If you want someone to get out of your face, you better use Dsmash or Usmash. Jab, Dsmash, and Usmash are pretty much all just as punishable on block, so you might as well go with the faster option.

Zelda's jab is the worst. Pitiful damage, no use at all, horrible speed, can't be canceled, etc.

Honestly, who cares about the damage of a defensive JAB? I would rather do 2% to you and not get hit than to try to do something stupid to block an approach that Usmash won't get and get hit.

"No use at all" is wrong. It's her best option to go with Usmash for ground-to-air combat. You just use the one that the opponent is in range for.

Horrible speed and can't be canceled is true. Good thing it's meant to fight assaults from a distance and not when you could be using Usmash instead.

 

[B!squick]

Jab Tier List:

1.) Ike?

Best tier list evar.

 

[Melfice z]

My votes for S tier

Ike, Snake, Lucas, Falco, ZSS, Peach, and Sheik

Really i think the ones that can jab cancel and combo
have the best jabs
Ike, Lucas, and ZSS have very good jab cancel combos

F tier would have to be
MK, Ganon, Pikachu, ICs, and Olimar

Still no one mentions Lucas...his jab is just as good as Ike's
Has the same speed,priority, and combo capabilities(actually more than Ike)
It just doesnt have as much range as Ike's

Lucas' jab also has less knockback and about half the range XD
thats why id put it at bottom S or high A

.......

I think our foundation should start with the mid/most basic jab, and then build upward and downward from there

 

[Snail]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmNU0b9L_8

Food for thought

This >_>

To the people saying Olimar's jab, it deals 15%, comes out in 4 frames and hits behind him. Grab is always better but it's a decent GTFO move.

Also, no more best/worst or tier list threads please.

 

[Nestec]

::: Jab Tier List! :::

Wow, dude, you really love ranking things, don't you?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Pikachu's jab is decent. It hits on frame 2 (I think), and often hits multiple times before the opponent can DI out of it. In addition, pikachu can jab lock with it if the opponent misses a tech (when their damage is above 70%). Add this to the fact that pikachu can force a missed tech with the footstool combo, and that makes his jab a very useful move. In addition, pikachu also has an excellent spotdodge (the after-lag is a mere 2 frames), which means spot-dodge to jab can be used to dodge other attacks and hit the enemy quickly.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

The best jab, Ike, Snake, Link, Toon Link.

Worst jab, probably Jiggz, Sonic, idk

 

[MurdaMoe]

if your actually using mk's jab, then ur a scrub.

 

[gm jack]

Honestly, who cares about the damage of a defensive JAB? I would rather do 2% to you and not get hit than to try to do something stupid to block an approach that Usmash won't get and get hit.

If it doesn't do much damage, it isn't much of a deterrent. If it was quicker, it would be more useful, but it is so slow it can be dealt with on reaction. Admittedly, the cooldown is low enough that that shouldn't get you in too much trouble, but it isn't a good jab. That said, I do think there are worse after reading your points. It is still just a poor move, but it does have a bit of use.

For ZSS, the fact the 3rd hit can be powershielded is not much of an issue, as you can use the fast first hit to interrupt what they are doing to reset spacing, which within her game is brilliant.

 

[phi1ny3]

My votes for S tier

Ike, Snake, Lucas, Falco, ZSS, Peach, and Sheik

Really i think the ones that can jab cancel and combo
have the best jabs
Ike, Lucas, and ZSS have very good jab cancel combos

F tier would have to be
MK, Ganon, Pikachu, ICs, and Olimar

Still no one mentions Lucas...his jab is just as good as Ike's
Has the same speed,priority, and combo capabilities(actually more than Ike)
It just doesnt have as much range as Ike's

You might as well add lucario if you're going to mention jabs that have jab canceling (and go unmentioned). It's a decent jab people sometimes overlook, it has great range for a jab (can stop lots of aerial approaches), but it's retardedly slow (frame 6) for a jab.
I'm certainly not saying he's got the best one (by far I think it gets overshadowed by plenty others), but it's still got some good stuff that nobody has mentioned (including the obvious fact it jab cancels, goes into grab/FP, and his aerials decently, and at high aura cap it does 14 percent, not amazing considering you could be doing more useful things at that percent usually, but it's still pretty good).

These threads are pretty stupid, I think someone mentioned they wouldn't mind if we asked politely whether these threads annoy people, but they kind of do.

Oh, and obviously ike jab for uber tier. You also didn't mention squirtle, who's also pretty overlooked (1 frame jab like zss, and practically can always do ftilt->AAA).

 

[theONEjanitor]

and why is everyone saying ganon's jab sucks

its a solid move

 

[Ray_Kalm]

and why is everyone saying ganon's jab sucks

its a solid move

9 frames start-up, 25 frames of lag, non-multi (meaning, no jab cancels), and does as low as 5% damage.

Yeah, if that's what you want to call a "solid move", then go ahead.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

9 frames start-up, 25 frames of lag, non-multi (meaning, no jab cancels), and does as low as 5% damage.

Yeah, if that's what you want to call a "solid move", then go ahead.

Ray Kalm Niam,

Ganondorf's Jab is very Laggy and Bad, but can be a little bit useful if you use Correctly. Look at the Sonic and Pikachu's Jab. The Jab of Ganondorf isn't the Real Worst Jab, unless someone don't know how to use.

Anyway, You're Pretty Right...

Nice Explanation Ray Kalm Niam.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I had an aneurysm when I saw this thread.

 

[Rayku]

Metaknight's jab is good in one situation, ever.

On pictochat, the one with the blocks and stairs and such, if you manage to trap yourself and your opponent in the smallest little box at the bottom right, you can get about 80% done to them without them able to do anything to you until the boxes disappear.

That is all I've ever used Metaknight's jab for.

 

[Nestec]

I had an aneurysm when I saw this thread.

lol, yeah seriously, this can stop now.

 

[SuSa]

9 frames start-up, 25 frames of lag, non-multi (meaning, no jab cancels), and does as low as 5% damage.

Yeah, if that's what you want to call a "solid move", then go ahead.

Isn't Jab guarenteed after a side-B on certain characters? That being your only guarenteed follow up?

I'd call that pretty ****ing useful.

 

[:mad:]

Isn't Jab guarenteed after a side-B on certain characters? That being your only guarenteed follow up?

I'd call that pretty ****ing useful.

Jab, Dtilt, and Ftilt can be possible followups against certain characters. There's a list somewhere down in the bowels of the Ganon boards that tells what you can do to each character.

Choke -> Jab is guaranteed on Meta Knight, Snake, Kirby, and a few others iirc. Kalm can point you in the right direction.

 

[B!squick]

iDA is guaranteed on more characters and is better. I think. I only lurk the Ganon Board. >.> The only cool thing about Ganon's jab is that it's the only one I ever seen kill.

 

[DanGR]

Falco has the best jab. Period. It's really no contest.