WEEKLY Matchup Discussion :: ROUND 4: FALCO (8/7/08)

[stealthsushi]

For Sheik, there are a handful of levels where she has a nice advantage (discussed in a different thread), but against certain matchups her advantage pale in comparison to the advantage the opponent has. I was thinking we compile a set of counterpicks for Sheik's common and unfavorable matchups by looking analyzing her opponents strengths to help out her metagame.

Stages:
Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island
Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Pokemon Stadium 1/2, Delphino Plaza, Castle Siege, Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, Corneria

For Sheik, there are a handful of levels where she has a nice advantage (discussed in a different thread), but against certain matchups her advantage pale in comparison to the advantage the opponent has. I was thinking we compile a set of counterpicks for Sheik's common and unfavorable matchups by looking analyzing her opponents strengths to help out her metagame.

Stages:
Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island
Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Pokemon Stadium 1/2, Delphino Plaza, Castle Siege, Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, Corneria

ROUND 4: FALCO
Just when you thought that the space animals were contained by Sheik's debilitating F-Tilt Lock, Falco rises to the occasion and gives Sheik a run for her money. Armed with an inescapable chain-grab until ~40%, annoying lasers, and a high priority Forward-B, Falco has the option of quickly going from offense to defense, and vice versa. While the match-up is slightly unfavorable with the Sheik/Zelda combination, Falco's been making a splash in the competitive scene and the number of blue-bird users have been on a steady rise. While Falco's recovery isn't that stellar and he lacks having a variety of kill moves, there is just something about the match-up that gives him the edge over Sheik/Zelda.


Falco Strengths:
- Quick, spammable laser with slight hitstun.
- Chaingrab typically results in a guaranteed 40% damage, and about 50% with a follow up D-Air.
- Can DLX Hit-Cancel for a quick and easy 25% damage. (Dash Attack > Up-Smash)
- Can Boost Smash.
- Reflector can trip and has great priority.
- Can Laser lock.
- Difficult to force an approach given laser spam and his reflector.
- Forward-B is quick, has high priority, and has semi-spike properties.
- Jab has good range and priority.
- Good aerials: Reliable and damaging B-Air, U-Air with KO potential, F-Air and N-Air are multi-hitting with potential to shield stab and punish spotdodging. N-Air has little ending lag compared to the F-Air.

KO Moves:
F-Smash, D-Smash, U-Smash, U-Air, D-Air (Spike), B-Air

Best Moves:
Lasers, D-Air, B-Air, F-Tilt

GUIDELINES
Sheik or Zelda?

What to Do:
Expect:
What NOT to DO:

Counterpick(s):
Reason(s):

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ROUND 3: ROB
For the two previous matchups, Sheik played a counter-defensive game that forced them to approach, giving you time to exploit an opening. However, ROB is an interesting match-up. He's a heavyweight with above-average recovery, a few disjointed aerials, two highly versatile projectiles, and a comprehensive defensive game. Can Sheik/Zelda break down this brickwall defense and awesome recovery to swing the match in their favor?

ROB Strengths:
- Highly disjointed N-Air with KO potential that can be difficult to predict and dodge.
- Up-B recovery allows him to recover and attack.
- Has two strong projectiles that deal good damage and have KO potential.
- Gyro (Down-B) is a highly versatile projectile that allows him to Glide Toss, pressure, rack damage, and edge-guard below the stage.
- Laser (Neutral-B) is a damaging projectile with a ridiculous amount of range. Can be angled in ways that can be difficult to predict.
- D-Smash is quick and multi-hitting. A defensive move that is used by nearly all ROBs to punish spotdodging and stab shields.
- D-Tilt has a high chance to trip, giving ROB a frame advantage.
- F-Air is quick with low knockback, allowing for easy follow ups and efficient edgeguarding.
- Deceptive hitbox on his Jab allows him to poke, disrupt attacks, and quickly create space.
- Very heavy and good recovery make him difficult to KO at the usual percentages.
- Great at edgeguarding given his good projectiles, F-Air, N-Air, and Up-B.

KO Moves:
N-Air, B-Air, D-Air, U-Smash (not used so much)

Best Moves:
D-Smash, Gyro, Laser, N-Air, D-Tilt

GUIDELINES
Sheik or Zelda? Zelda or Sheik. If using Sheik for the match, transform to Zelda for the KO. If using Zelda, you won't really need to change to Sheik.

What to Do:
As Sheik:
- Use your jabs, F-Tilts, and U-Tilts. Jabs and have decent priority over ROB's tilts and his D-Smash. F-Tilt acts as a good spacer and can open for a 2-3 F-Tilt > finisher. U-Tilt acts as a good way to rack up quick damage and is a very nice offensive maneuver when ROB is slightly in the air.
- Keep ROB in the air and then proceed to stay below or behind him. Take advantage of the lag on his B-Air and D-Air. Sheik's speed should make this a relatively easy task. His F-Air comes out the quickest, so avoid staying in front of him while he's up there. Punish with rising N-Airs, U-Tilts, U-Airs, U-Smash.
- Be somewhat aggressive and stay near ROB. This will limit his camping and make him think twice about using his projectiles. You obviously won't outcamp with needles.
- Approach diagonally from the air with RAR B-Airs for spacing, range, and to soft-hit if he spot-dodges.
- Edgeguard with a passion: ROB can't airdodge while he's using his Up-B, so try to take advantage of this with your quick aerials, needles, and Vanish. You don't have to go for the outright kill, but every percent you can deal makes the KO easier.
- F-Smash and D-Smash to punish any frequent spotdodging.
As Zelda:
- D-Tilt, D-Smash, Neutral A come out quickly to counter ROB's quick D-Smash.
- Use Nayru's Love to help deal with ROB's projectiles. Din's Fire can be used to stop a moving gyro and can also hit ROB.
- Use your smashes as ROB's large size makes it easy to land the hits.
- U-Air is a viable kill move from underneath given ROB's weakness underneath him. The large disjointed hitbox can outprioritize his N-Air.
- Punish spotdodging with U-Tilt, Nayru's Love, Shield > D-Smash. Zelda can definitely hold her own in up-close combat with ROB.
- Use D-Tilt and N-Air to help with the occasional setup.
- F-Air/B-Air is much much easier to land given ROB's size

Expect:
FF'ed N-Airs, Spotdodge > D-Smash, Gyro Glide Toss, Lasers on the ground and during recovery, F-Air "Wall of Pain", Gyro/Laser edge-guarding.

What NOT to DO:
- Make poor approaches or mindlessly jumping in with F-Air. ROB's defensive game is quite good, so there isn't too much room for error. You will be punished with a D-Smash, F-Tilt, or D-Tilt.
- Try to force approaches with needles. Its obvious that ROB has the superior camping game.
- Get impatient. Makes for silly mistakes and some easy punishes for ROB.
- Forget that Zelda probably has the upperhand in this matchup. Use her to your advantage.
- Forget to DI his D-Smash. By doing so you can at least avoid the last hit which has all the knockback.

Counterpick(s):
Small, platformed stages. Lylat Cruise, Battlefield, and Yoshi's Island are all solid choices. Avoid Final Destination and Smashville.
Reason(s):
The smaller stage area reduces ROB's camping advantages and gyro tricks. The platforms can mess up ROB's lasers and gyros when he's recovering back towards the stage. Also, the platforms reduce ROB's ability to approach in the air and makes it easier to get him above you. Not to mention the platforms helps you recover and won't help ROB as much given that he can pretty much recover on any kind of stage. Large stages should be avoided as they play well into ROB's friendly camping game and limit Sheik's ability to use the stage.

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ROUND 2: MR. GAME & WATCH
Mr. Game & Watch is truly a nasty match-up for Sheik/Zelda. With unusually good range and priority in the air, devastating smash attacks (with IASA frames on two of them), and an exceedingly difficult to gimp recovery, Sheik/Zelda are definitely fighting against the odds.

Mr. Game & Watch Strengths
- Superior aerial game. Long ranged, disjointed hitboxes, KO potential F-Air, shield stabbing B-Air, stalling U-Air, auto-cancellable N-Air, and an unusually quick fall-and-stall D-Air.
- Punishing ground game. Smashes all KO at good %'s with difficult to DI knockback and can be setup well with D-Throw. Long lasting hitboxes on tilts on top of a quick jab and D-Tilt.
- Spaces very well in the air and on the ground.
- Great D-Throw. Sets up VERY well for tech chases and follow ups.
- One of the best recoveries in the game. Its quick, has invincibility frames at start up, a hitbox going up, leads into a "glide," and can be cancelled with an aerial.
- Has a bucket to neutralize Din's fire.

KO Moves:
- D-Smash, F-Smash, U-Smash, F-Air

Best Moves:
- D-Smash, B-Air, D-Throw, D-Tilt

GUIDELINES
Sheik or Zelda: Sheik for most of the match, Zelda if KO is difficult
- As Zelda, play it defensively and be patient until you can score a KO move. Avoid using your aerials to kill except for U-Air when he's above you. Use Din's Fire as a mind game to force buckets during recovery and to surprise. Do NOT use it if his bucket is 2/3's full. Stay grounded and away from the air if possible.

What to Do:
1. Keep a safe distance away to avoid being within Smash range and to allow time to react to his aerial approaches.
2. Use needles to pressure and force approaches. He does not have an answer to needles. Be very liberal with the use.
3. Always tech his D-Smash to avoid the inevitable D-Smash follow up. Learn the timing and don't miss it.
4. Use Vanish to KO with Sheik, as it useful to take advantage of the vulnerable period in G&W's Up-B, punish D-Airs, and retaliate against poor approaches.
5. Keep your combos and attacks short and sweet with F-Tilts to Grab/Aerial/Tilt/D-Smash and only be aggressive if there is an opening to exploit (i.e. bait an airdodge, whiffed an U-Smash, didn't auto-cancel his F-Air properly)
6. Grab is your best-friend. Use it to rack damage, throw G&W off his rhythm, and sneak in an aerial or two.
7. Shield his B-Airs and learn when it is safe to attack out of shield. Good G&W's should be able to pressure you outside of your grab range, but he'll be well within your Jab/F-Tilt range. Use this to your advantage and create an opening. If you get hit, SDI up and counter with a N-Air.
8. Utilize Sheik's variety when it comes to edge-guarding. Mix it up between Vanish tricks, traditional edge-guarding, chain edge-hogging, needles, and Short-Hop Chain.

Expect:
B-Air, B-Air, B-Air approaches
F-Smash / D-Smash spam
D-Throw
F-Air edgeguards

What NOT to Do:
1. Miss a D-Throw tech. You will be punished severely for your insolence!
2. Don't be baited by his D-Smash and F-Smash. His D-Smash has a deceptive hitbox that extends slightly past the tip of the hammer and it has IASA frames for quick spamming. F-Smash lingers for a bit and cannot be sidestepped properly.
3. Be over offensive and aggressive. That will give G&W the upper-hand with is range, priority, and vicious D-Throw.
4. Overshield. Spam roll and spotdodges due to his lingering hitboxes and multi-hitting B-Air.
5. Fill his bucket to full capacity with Zelda.

Counterpick:
- Your favorite neutral stage.
Reasons for Counterpick
G&W doesn't really have any bad stages. Many suggest picking a platformed neutral stage to stop his D-Air spam and allow you to vary your edge-guarding more. FD is also an option because it allows room to DI.

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ROUND 1: META KNIGHT Posts #2-6.
I thought we'd start with Meta Knight, since you probably see him almost everytime you play and realize how frustrating it is to kill him. Lets take a look at his strength, as its good to know your enemies inside and out (just look at the Ness boards and their knowledge of Sheik @___@).

MK Strengths
- Fast attacks, disjointed hitbox
- 4 methods of recovery
- Small target
- Quick rolls and spotdodge.
- Fast dash and long dash-grab
- 5 jumps

KO Moves:
- Shuttle Loop, D-Smash. F-Smash, N-Air

Best Moves:
- Mach Tornado, Shuttle Loop, D-Smash, D-Tilt

GUIDELINES
Sheik or Zelda? Sheik for damage, Zelda for KO (D-Tilt > F-Smash/D-Smash when he's on the ground, U-Tilt when he rolls offensively, and U-Smash when he's in the air)

What to do:
1. Keep close to the center of the stage.
2. Play a defensive counter game. Force him to approach with needles.
3. Stay Grounded: You will get outprioritized in the air, so space with U-Tilt and F-Tilt, counter with Shield > D-Smash, punish spotdodging with F-Smash, and stop glide attacks with Chain.
4. F-Tilts into grabs / lock. Mix in grab release > (Air) Up-Smash / DACUS, (Ground) F-Tilt/F-Smash
5. Needles for damage, stopping approaches, and halting Mach Tornado. Throw a single needle after unleashing a full charge in anticipation of an approach.
6. Choose Vanish over Chain recoveries to prevent easy edge-hogging, unless using Vanish to safely come back to the stage is not an option.

Expect:
Shuttle-loop > Glide Attack > Buffered D-Smash
Mach Tornado
D-Throw
D-Tilt
F-Tilt
Tons of D-Smash
Tons of edge-guarding

What NOT to do:
1. Go off the stage to edgeguard him.
You will more likely die or eat a Shuttle Loop in your attempt. As Zelda, use Din's Fire to rack up damage.
2. Engage in an aerial fight.
As mentioned above, you will more likely get outranged and outprioritized without very good spacing. If you find an opening, use B-Air and U-Air.
3. Don't try to beat him in speed or be lured into approaching.
Learn the amount of lag MK has on his attacks and don't be tricked into approaching as he will tend to punish you with D-Smash. His attacks come out just as fast (or faster) and tend to have less lag than Sheiks.

Counterpick:
Final Destination, Yoshi's Island

Reasons for Counterpick:
FD: Reduces MK's ability to approach against well-timed needles.

Yoshi's Island: The randomly appearing platforms work to Sheik's advantage more than Meta Knight. Allows Sheik to utilize the Wall Cling. Lessens MK's aerial advantage based on the two reasons above.

 

[ADHD]

Go Sheik until the kill, then go zelda around 90ish.

What to do: Know the amount of ending lag time on each of his moves, it's not to be underestimated. Keep in the center of the stage as much as possible. Keep it simple, no crazy needle stuff, you want to keep a very close watch and be effective to rack up damage. You can't ftilt lock him so well. Expect: Dthrow to fair, dthrow to tornado, dthrow to dthrow. (He can mix these up and confuse you.) Only edgeguard him with invinicibility frames, otherwise your cooked, he is probably sheik's hardest person to edgeguard. Staying in the center keeps you having control and avoiding being gimped. Oh yeah, never use your chain unless your vanish is easily taken advantage of for recovering.

What not to do: Let him get you in the air, go off the stage trying to hit him, hug the edge without invinicibility frames (lol). Underestimate his almost lagless attacks.

Counterpick: Idk, he does well on almost all stages, Yoshi's island distracts his aerial game, keep under the platform and stand your ground. Plust the little goo things that hold up the platforms once in a while can get you lucky with your recovery.

This matchup gets easier after fighting him for a month and getting creamed. TRUST ME, snake is so much worse.

 

[NJzFinest]

What to do: Ftilts into grab --> grab release upsmash, it's one of the best ways for racking damage in this matchup, especially if you can DACUS. Probably the second best would be charged needles. Everytime you fire a charged set of needles, always fire one more right afterwards. 9 out of 10 times, the MK will try to quickly dash after you shoot the first full set. This basically comes from Captain Jack's Sheik in Melee, something he did alot to fast approaching characters. It can about do 20%+ as long as you can get the first set off.

You can DI out of Metaknight's Fair/Bair and attack him before he even finishes the move, but that just depends how good you are at DIing. Alot of MK's like to Dtilt, some usually go for a Dtilt to down throw, so always be alert for that. Nair, Bair, and chain are nice in this matchup since these moves are like, bigger then MK's body. Chain can save you from out anything but Forward B, but almost any MK would go for neutral B.

What not to do: Go off stage, because pretty much the only way he can kill you under like, 130%ish is with Up B gimps.

Counterpicks: FD is pretty nice to get off the grab release combo. Also, MK can be pretty gay with platforms, so you might find yourself having more breathing room.

But in general, I try to go for larger stages where it's harder for MK to kill or stages I personally feel comfortable with (since, as already mentioned, MK is basically good anywhere).

 

[stealthsushi]

Good input so far:

Sheik or Zelda? Sheik for damage, Zelda to finish.

What to Do: Stay close to the center of the stage. Remain nearby and keep your game grounded if possible. Extensive use of spaced F-Tilt, U-Tilt, and D-Smash to play an defensive game that keeps you on the offensive. If room allows, charge and use needles to slowly rack up damage. Mix in grab releases (the kind that doesn't send them up into the air) to reduce decay and possibly set up for a perfectly spaced F-Tilt or F-Smash. Use Vanish to recover instead of the Chain unless you have extreme difficult sweetspotting the edge. SH'ed Chain edgeguards (about 2-3 Sheiks from the edge) can be helpful in racking some easy edge damage and force MK to get above you.

As Zelda, D-Tilt > F-Smash when he's on the ground, U-Tilt when he rolls, and U-Smash when he's in the air for the kill.

What Not to Do: Engage in an air-to-air battle. While Sheik has a good aerial game, MK's disjointed hitboxes and priority will pose a problem unless you have ungodly spacing. U-Air is a good choice however if you manage to get Meta Knight above you. Do NOT get near the edge or edge guard versus MK as his shuttle loop and edgeguarding will definitely screw you over.

As Zelda, don't try to land the Lightning Kick. Once you're in the air, you are in serious trouble with her ineffective air game.

Expect: Shuttle Loop > Glide Attack > Buffered D-Smash. One of Meta Knight's favorite combos as it is difficult to punish. Shield ALL of it and counter with a D-Smash. Lots of Mach Tornados-- shield it all or use needles to stop them.

Counterpick: Yoshi's Island and Final Destination for the same reasons mentioned above. Yoshi's Island allows Sheik to utilize her Wall Cling for survival and the walls underneath the stage prevents Meta Knights from doing reverse Shuttle Loops onto the stage. The tilting platform can be used to your advantage. Final Destination also has an area to Wall Cling in desperate situations and the amount of open area allows you to utilize your needles and DACUS.

 

[TonyGuacamole]

I have heard that you should never pick Corneria when facing metaknight, as your opponent may spam the tornado while on top of the wing for an easy, cheap KO. Also, watch out for this trap, someone used it on me in a tournament recently, it was awful...

MK can cheaply spam his tornado on the bottom level of luigi's mansion and it's almost impossible to punish him for it. The only way to counter this trap is to destroy the mansion, if you are able to. REMEMBER, you must destroy the top pillars first! (i didn't know this, and so I got *****).


I hope the chain jacket will turn the tide against metaknight...

as previously mentioned, DACUS is a great way to KO MK. I like to use it to finish one of my favorite combos on MK:

Ftilt + Ftilt + Ftilt + Utilt + DACUS!!! (sometimes I land the DACUS - depending on the MK's DI - and if I do it usually KO's at fairly low damage%. If I miss I don't usually get punished for it. This combo works on many characters, but landing the DACUS is usually unceartain.)

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik or Zelda? Sheik for the early damage, Zelda for the KO.

What to do: ftilt lock when you can, be ready to toss needles to suppress Tornado. If you're facing a MK player who hasn't played vs you/Sheik at all, you can probably score a bit A LOT of damage just camping with an aerial-landed chain. Shield-dsmash for punishment, and if MK likes to spotdodge after intentional whiffs, punish with fsmash - the first hit will miss and lead into the second on his vulnerable frames after the spotdodge. The usmash is your trump card if you for some reason don't like Zelda - if MKs get into the habit of air-dodging after you throw, you can easily punish it by usmash tippering them. Also, grab release (jump) can lead into a side-hit running usmash or a DACUS tipper, which can give time for Zelda or even KO in a pinch.
Expect: Tornado, dsmash, glide attack, shuttle loop, grabs, dthrow, dtilt, ftilt. The dsmash is a brutal punishment to lots of careless approaches; Tornado is just there to intimidate you when it shouldn't, seeing as how you have a solution that can deal up to 18% damage as punishment for even using it; glide attack can likewise just be needled or chained if he thinks of approaching you with it; Shuttle Loop is like this stupid card that says "KO anybody who even thinks of edgeguarding MK offstage," so don't fall for it; MK will spam grabs if you shield a lot, and dash attacks if you don't, so figure out both of those; dthrow is like, always used, so either DI up and toward or down and away, but mix up the DI so he can't follow up automatically; dtilt and ftilt are not typically punishable from your shield, so either roll away or jump out if he starts pressuring you with that.
What NOT to do: Don't edgeguard Meta Knight with Sheik's aerials. Just don't. You'll die. Don't hesitate to camp the **** out of him. He's Meta Knight, so you shouldn't feel bad about that. Don't rush into him too much because he'll just spotdodge whatever you have and dsmash you. Don't try to outprioritize or outtime glide attack - you've got three safe punishments for it (needles, chain, or if he really gets predictable with it, Vanish) so use them.

Counterpick: I dunno, I always just pick Battlefield. But FD might work.
Reasons for Counterpick: Meta Knight's got no platforms on FD to approach against careful placement of needles. His Tornado is lol, and if he starts shielding you know you've started to get him to second-guess his approach. On the other hand, Sheik generally performs well on any of the standard starter stages, so you shouldn't worry too much about this.

 

[stealthsushi]

Just updated the thread and added Sheik/Zelda's next difficult match-up: Mr. G&W. Bumping it for discussion.

 

[Wildfire393]

Game and Watch is a tough Matchup for both Sheik and Zelda. You can get a bit of Tilt-Lockage on him, but his aerials outrange your tilts and outprioritize your aerials, making things tough. Additionally, his Bucket shuts down Zelda's Din's Fire better than just about any other projectile, and he outranges/outprioritizes Zelda on most of her moves as well. Additionally, both Sheik and Zelda fall victim to Game and Watch's Downthrow. If you fail to tech, he will be able to downsmash you before you have a chance to roll out of it. If you do tech, there's the possibility of tech-chasing, which can end up even worse for you. The fact that he can consitantly KO at around 50% less than you can, despite his light weight, makes things problematic.

Things that help:
1) Needles. Despite Game and Watch's advantages, he can't really escape the harassing power of the Needles. Since Game and Watch's projectile lacks... any use whatsoever, this puts Sheik at an advantage at the long range
2) Tilting. Even if you can't get the heavy-duty tilt locks that so savagely brutalize the likes of Fox and Wolf, you can Forward Tilt G&W a bit, and Uptilt him as a closer. Relentlessly combo this guy. His aerials all take a short while to come out, so once he's being hit, there's very little he can do.
3) Zelda. Although she also has problems against Game and Watch, she helps even the odds in terms of KO power, at least a bit. Uptilts, Up-Airs, and Up-smashes all help to knock this lightweight off the top of the stage. And Forward Smashes can outrange even the most difficult of Game and Watch's moves.

 

[slickmasterizzy]

game and watches d-air can be punished with your vanish.

i know only noobs spam this but its always nice to get 20%.

oh also perfect rolling away when he grabs you since people think its hard to roll away when he down throws you to down smash.

game and watch is easy to knock off the top of the stage. start loving the vanish =p

against gAw i perfer using shiek. and i lay off the aerial attacks some (other then u-air)

shiek can just use vanish at the edge of the stage and catch a game and watch who needs his up+b to recover and would normally just “hug” along the wall of the stage before popping up over the edge.

watch because your f-tilt/jab will knock him up and eventually he will be able to come at you with an air attack. just roll back and short hop to punch in face.

 

[ADHD]

What to do: Bait him to use his dair, grab him or anything really. His ground game is good, but you have a projectile that he cant use to his advantage. Use the needles, Fsmash slightly about more... the GnW I've used play somewhat slow, and they are always trying to get good spacing, so screw them up and give a decent amount of space between you and him. He is slow on the ground, so always stay a foot away from his smashes, and you won't get KO'd at a ridiculous 70%.

Expect: Dairs, very annoying. If you come to him hastily, he will be happy. The freakin turtle.

What not to do: Run into him hastily, forget to DI so his attacks aren't as nasty, play over offensive and aggressive.

Counterpick: FD.

Reasoning: He can be tricky on platformed stages, and his smashes have even more priority since its hard to hop around in the since the platforms get in your way and he can use his up b and such. His smashes aren't so bad on FD since you have more time to DI, and its a bigger level. Go zelda for the kill, usually and upsmash kills him at about 94%.

 

[Villi]

What to Do: Approach carefully, if at all. Stay unpredictable -- test how he reacts to a dash approach while your percentage is low enough to take a hit. Spaced ftilts and dtilts are safe. Grappling is probably your best balance of risk/reward except for vanish mind games. Stay defensive, mostly -- you should be moving by walking or nair/bair spacing. Practice the timing of tech rolling his dthrow (hold the direction you want to go, then click L/R right when you're in the palm of his hand) -- you have the frame advantage if he attempts to tech chase you, so dsmash or shield grab or mix it up. Vanish punishes a predictable dair. Expect to go low to edge guard him, if at all --a fair or a bair at the bottom of the stage can be totally worth it when it isn't expected. His bair is troublesome -- roll to safety or punish it with a dair if you see it coming.

As Zelda... don't get too aggressive trying to kill him because you still need to trick him into a smash or utilt. Usmash and Utilt both kill him at 90%. Standing on the edge, dsmash will also kill him at 90%. Don't be too shy with Din's Flame. He probably won't expect the first one, and you can bait out a bucket to punish with a short hopped Din's approach.

Expect: Expect him to smash a couple of times hoping you try to punish the first one. Expect him to Dthrow you whenever he grabs you, even if he doesn't sometimes. Expect lots of bair approaches and fair edge guards. If he's not harassing you with uairs, he'll be waiting for you on the ground with an usmash -- if he's too good and you can't land safely, just grab the ledge.

What NOT to Do: Don't fall on top of him. Ever. It's not worth it.

Counterpick: A stage with platforms where he can't spam dairs. Not FD.
Reasons for Counterpick Platforms protect you from dairs and his usmash. He's short, you're tall. You have the platform advantage (watch out for aerials though). It also gives you a nice place to perch with a SH chain. You don't need to attack him from above, anyway -- your approaches should be spaced SH sex kicks or on the ground.

 

[imdavid]

Sheik or Zelda: Sheik all the way through unless you can't get the KO

What to Do: Wait for the dair, dash away then dash back for a forward grab. needle harass the guy, if needs be just run away from him and charge up your needles then unleash it on him later. If he is at 0%, i use 2 ftilts, 2 jabs, dtilt, 2-3 ftilts again, then either utilt or usmash depending on how he's di-ing away, gives a good 50-60% from 0 and then if you're feeling frisky you can chase with a nair/bair/fair. throw in grabs on his dairs and needle harassment and you can get him to higher percentage, but try your best not to get hurt at ALL. this might seem difficult, but just keep your distance and watch out for his dairs/bairs and just space your grabs wisely, once he gets to 110, dsmash and vanish him as he's trying to recover, his recovery is hard to gimp, but easy to vanish against. also, since he is very light, a boost smash tipper might catch him off guard and kill him at 90%ish or lower

if you need to use zelda for the kill, you can time an uair as he's using his dair, larger disjointed hitbox wins >.< also, you should transform at around 110% and land an usmash, in the air he's pretty vulnerable from underneath if you're expecting the dair, so expect it

Expect: Dairs, lots of Bairs, undeniably alot of bairs, down throws (learn to tech them, its worth it XD) dsmashes, and watch out for lingering fsmash, you can't side step them -__-

What NOT to Do: not tech his dthrow, lose your cool and run into his attacks

Counterpick: I really don't care.. i do well against g&w compared to other characters *shrugs*
If you choose battle field, relentlessly unleash fairs and nairs on him from platform to platform until he's off the stage, charge your needles and start all over again or do what villi said XD

if you are on FD, bait his dair dash a space away then dash back for the grab, then just mess with his brain

 

[#HBC | Scary]

What to do: Always have a set of needles ready to use, it'll ruin any sort of offensive groove G&W would get in if he gets into one. Grab will be very useful, possibly fthrow + nair or fair for quick damage. Teching the dthrow is necessary or else that is free damage for him. Bait him into Dair because Vanish punishes heavily and he may have 2nd thoughts about it so stay on your toes to punish him.

As Zelda, Uair the Key, Uair will win everytime so long as you can get it off. Careful with Din's but you can also use it as bait to get in close so SH Dins is a good idea so long as he goes with the bucket. Unpredictability is a must if you wish to stay as Zelda throughout!

Expect: Many Dthrow combos so be ready to tech the throw. If on battlefield, the key actually hits you if he uses the key on the platform but if you dodge it you are at the advantage. His smashes are easily spammable so avoid 2nd attempts. Lots and lots of SH Nairs & Bairs to build quick damage.

What not to do: Fill the bucket as Zelda, possible OHKO if fully charged. Also, do not allow his Dthrow combos to develop.

Counterpick: Platforms so Battlefield and maybe even Smashville and Yoshi's Island.
Reasons: Platforms can stall him and you have the length to take advantage, but don't let that advantage fool you, because he still has insane priority.

 

[stealthsushi]

Sheik or Zelda: Sheik for damage, Zelda for finish.

What to Do: Work the F-Tilt for mini-locks and set ups for a rising N-Air. Use your quick attacks to your advantage, but use them wisely before G&W can effectively retaliate. Utilize sliding Vanishes (running Vanish to have it explode near the edge of the ledge, not a Vanish Edgeguard/Glide) to punish G&W's ledge-tricks. Shield his B-Airs and spotdodge near the last hit to conserve shield energy and possibly retreat/retaliate. Keep a medium distance from him and utilize Sheik's variety to your advantage: jab-cancels, D-Tilts, U-Tilts, Chain-- throw these in occasionally to mix it up. Sheik's advantage is mind-games and G&W is a good character to use them on. Lastly, use needles to rack damage and force approaches and TECH his D-Throw or else.

As Zelda: Keep your game very close to the ground and play a defensive-counter game. Shield > D-Smash. U-Smash to deal with high aerial attacks and F-Smash spam to keep his approaches at bay. Punish rolls with U-Tilt. Use Din's Fire when he's recovering above and looking to land near the edge; it'll bait a bucket/air-dodge setting up for a very easy U-tilt finish. Use Jab and and D-Tilt for spacing and poking.

Expect: B-Air, B-Air, B-Air. Its a surprise the turtle doesn't go stale and die Copious amounts of D-Tilts, its G&W's poking and spacing attack. D-Throw to D-Smash/F-Smash/U-Smash/D-Tilt/Jab/Judgement. D-Smash spam to lure people in thinking its okay to attack; this smash has ridiculously short lag-time and IASA frames-- crazy. F-Air edgeguarding.

What NOT to Do: Stupidly approach him and get D-Throw comboed. Engage in an aerial battle-- Sheik gets out ranged and outprioritized by his disjointed hitboxes. Forget to DI his moves like Jab, N-Air, and B-Air to minimize the damage. Become predictable-- nothing worse than rolling the same way after a D-throw and have him wait there with an U-Smash. Don't fill his bucket to max with Zelda.

Counterpick: Battlefield.

Reason: I'm leaning more towards Battlefield as platforms can allow Sheik to vary her on-stage recovery and more effectively use her Chain and Vanish variety. Its also bright and makes it easier to see G&W :D

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik or Zelda? Focus on Sheik; use Zelda if G&W survives to 150%

What to Do: You will rarely ever get a chance to be up close against a good G&W, so take advantage of it when you can. Some G&W players love to dair into your shield and try to trap you with a dsmash immediately afterward. The dair will typically push you out of grab range, but you'll always be in range for a jab or ftilt out of shield, which can disrupt his plans. Since you've pretty much lost in terms of both priority and range, you're going to be restricted to hard camping until an opening comes to you. Sheik's needles are uber here, use and abuse them to annoy the G&W, force approaches, or confuse him long enough for a grab or dash attack. Find predictable approaches that you can punish with Vanish, it'll be your easiest way to score a KO.
Expect: A lot of bair. You can only beat it with needles and chain. It has multiple hits, and it's really annoying. If you do happen to get caught in it, you can try to SDI up and out of it and immediately punish with a nair.
All of G&W's aerials have a hitbox after landing, so watch for it and don't get caught by surprise.
G&W's smashes, with the exception of the usmash, all last a decent amount of time and end pretty quickly, so you can practically expect the player to follow up one smash into another to lure you into an unsafe approach.
G&W's dthrow will groundslam you. Get the timing down to tech this and figure out his prediction pattern. If he tries to rollchase, not teching and wakeup attacking will work. If he does dthrow to dsmash, techroll the hell out of there.
What NOT to Do: Don't rush in. G&W's entire strategy, when not pressuring you with spaced aerials, is punishing any approaches with his smash attacks and bair.
If you do decide to use Zelda, remember to not abuse Din's Fire, because G&W can bucket it.
Don't overshield.
Rolling and spotdodging are BAD against G&W.

Counterpick: Your favorite neutral stage.
Reasons for Counterpick Sheik works best on neutrals, and G&W doesn't have any particularly bad stages.

 

[stealthsushi]

ROUND 3: ROB is up!

A lil' bump to get this topic firing! ROB is an interesting match-up; I'm not really sure if Sheik/Zelda is at a big disadvantage. Lets see how this unfolds!

 

[imdavid]

Zelda has a better advantage in this match up IMO, but I use sheik anyways

As Sheik, get in his face a LOT, your jabs counter a lot of his moves, including his dsmash if timed right. So jab and ftilt and keep the pressure up. His laser does a good 5%ish damage, so even if it hits you at a distance its okay, it looks intimidating though. The Gyro is a charged smash attack, literally, but if he uses it simply shield and it'll either disappear or move past you. Ftilts and Utilts do a lot in this game; however, because of his weight it is nearly impossible to kill him at anything lower than 120% with vanish or usmash. So rack the damage in and really really keep him off stage whenever you get the chance. As for the air game, ROB has a lot of good aerials, his nair hits hard and moves around his body, his fair outprioritizes yours, his bair has good KO potential. The only aerial that he seems to be lacking in is his uair, but that can be used to juggle with as well. What does this mean? Don't use your fair. Your rar bair (and sometimes a nair) help with approaching as well as keeping him off stage. Often times ROB likes to charge his gyro as he is approaching the stage, dodge it and then land a bair to push him out. Eventually his fuel is going to run out... so this is a waiting game. If the match gets to long, don't forget to just grab and pummel with grab hits to get your diminished attacks back to full power. This is a hard match up and only the most patient of sheiks have the advantage... bait needles to keep him at bay to prevent a fully charged gyro and try to keep the stage and game in your control.

Zelda has the power of NL to help against gyro's and lasers, but in all reality, din's has such a huge hitbox that it can both destroy the gyro and hit ROB as he launches it. ROB, needless to say, makes a large target for lightning kicks, lay it on him. Since he loves to use nair in the air, ROB tends to fall into Zelda's uair, which is great for Zelda since that's her best killing move. Tilts, neutral a, and dsmash help wonders because they come out almost and faster than ROB's dsmash, something he abuses. Since he is a large target, he gets sucked into your usmashes, but that won't really kill ROB. Use short hop nairs on ROB often to keep your space, and also dtilt can lay into some sweet combos.

Things to be careful of:
Trying to land an aerial only to get Nair-ed in the face
Strong Smash attacks
Gyros and Lasers
Strong Grabs
Slow predictable spike, not as strong as other spikes... but a spike none the less

KO potential shtuff:
Sheik: around 140% the usmash tipper can usually kill
If he is coming from underneath the stage you can grab the ledge, quickly drop down and fair/bair him into the stage for a stage spike
Pressure him off stage with needles and bairs and the occasional vanish until he runs out of fuel

Zelda: Dins off stage helps keep your control, he can't airdodge after using his Up B
If he is coming from below the stage you can jump in from behind and land a lightning kick or land a spike
(the sourspot spike can still help as it requires him to burn more fuel)
utilt works well in this match up to get the kill when usmash has been diminished
Lightning kicks

Others:
You can DI out of the dsmash by DI-ing up, similar to Pikachu, however, it does not move you that far out of the dsmash so if you do nothing after you get up, ROB can simply dsmash you again.
The dsmash does not do much percentage, but the final hit is a good KO move against the super light sheik, so DI-ing the last hit can save you.

Counterpicks: Battlefield
Reasons: ROB has a hard time against aerial approaches when he is grounded and a hard time against ground attacks when he is in the air (that's what it feels to me for some wierd reason...) so battlefield's platforms let you have control of both. Also, the many platforms allow you many places to land for recovery against ROBs super gimping >.<

 

[Yeniths]

I appreciate this greatly, keep it up This upcoming info on ROB will be pretty helpful.

 

[<π]

bump .

 

[3xSwords]

I can't really give a detailed analysis on ROB, but here's just what I got from previous experiences.

ROB in the air tends to be most vulnerable from underneath. This is because his dair is slow and if he nairs you will have more time to react than you usually would do to your position. So after punishing a ROB from using dair or nair, they will start to air dodge. U-tilt lasts longer than an air dodge, as the weak hit will usually hit him out of it. You can also do a rising sex kick and FF it to catch him out of an air dodge also.

You can also bait some d-smashes out of shield or spotdodge, with good spacing on a bair. If they fall for it, you can SH over it an fair > f-tilt, grab, dash attack, etc. Also in this matchup you're best of switching to Zelda to get the kill.

Generally any stage with platforms is a good counterpick against ROB. Since once you get him on top of a platform its guaranteed %.

 

[stealthsushi]

Sheik or Zelda? Sheik for damage, Zelda for KO.
As Zelda: Play it safe until you can land a smash. Just avoid getting knocked off the stage as Zelda's air game is pretty bad for recovering Multi-hit smashes like U-Smash and F-Smash will prove useful to stab past ROB's defense.

What to Do:
- Get below ROB when he's in the air to expose his slow D-Air. SH N-Airs will help dish in damage and can catch ROB off-guard with a soft-hit if he air-dodges. Utilize those U-Tilts in this position.
- Stay relatively close to ROB to minimize his projectile usage.
- Short F-Tilt setups to damaging combo finishers to rack up quick damage.
- Play an aggressive game, but don't be overly predictable with the approach. Aerial approaches diagonal to ROB work the best as his attacks have difficulty covering that area.
- Edgeguard. While ROB has an excellent recovery game, try to take advantage of the situation and sneak in a few aerials, needles, or maybe even a Vanish. While it may not outright kill him, all the damage you can sneak in counts8 and the pressure can put the ROB in a unfavorable position.
- Utilize F-Smash and D-Smash to punish more-than-likely and frequent spotdodging.

Expect:
- Spot-Dodge > D-Smash punish
- Gryos and Laser to edge-guard when you're off the stage.
- F-Air "Wall of Pain"
- Normal/FF'ed N-Airs when recovering onto the stage or when he is looking to land.
- Gyro glide-toss.

What NOT to DO:
- Stay very far from ROB and let him camp. His ranged game is better than yours.
- Make stupid approaches and not utilizing Sheik's arsenal of mind game tools when approaching. You will fall into the oldest trick in ROB's book: Shield/Spotdodge > D-Smash.
- Get impatient. While being aggressive is to your advantage, being overly aggressive and rushing in will play into ROB's great defensive strength. A few D-tilts and shield > D-Smashes from ROB will set you up for easy damage.
- Forgetting that you have Zelda when you get ROB up to 250% While Sheik can sneak in quick and effective 2-3 hit combos on ROB, getting the kill will be difficult. If he's at a really high percent, use Zelda and save yourself some trouble.

Counterpick(s): Yoshi's Island, small platformed stages like Battlefield or Lylat Cruise.
Reason(s): There's no open space beneath the stage for ROB to Up-B over to the other side from underneath. You can also utilize Sheik's Wall Cling when recovering and it might be able to help dodge aggressive ROB edge-guarding. The platform in the middle of the stage can be played to your advantage, as ROB is vulnerable whenever he's above the opponent. Avoid large stages like Final Destination and Smashville, as it provides ROB with plenty of room to utilize his gyro and long-ranged laser.

 

[stealthsushi]

Shameless bump to get more opinions on the ROB matchup before I change it up

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Sheik or Zelda? Zelda. Dsmash happy ROBs will eat kicks out of shield.

 

[imdavid]

yay for zeldas GTFO kicks!

 

[Wildfire393]

Zelda definitely has an advantage on ROB in this matchup. He is very thick, making it easier to land Lightning kicks, and Zelda's massive KO power slightly negates his retardedly good recovery.

Sheik on the other hand, is at a large disadvantage against ROB. ROB's tilts are pretty much better than Sheik's, having longer ranges. He's pretty much immune to Tilt-Locking. He can outcamp Sheik.

What to do:
Be good with Zelda. Stick with her for pretty much the whole match. Seriously. Sheik has no edges over ROB, unlike many characters.

 

[imdavid]

I still get some good tilt locks in, not sure what you're talking about :]

rob's ftilt can outrange all (i mean all) of zelda's grounded moves and as for zelda's aerial game... its very predictable and easily shielded against.

the better the ROB is, the harder it is for a better zelda to beat him imo... xD

 

[Wildfire393]

I still get some good tilt locks in, not sure what you're talking about :]

rob's ftilt can outrange all (i mean all) of zelda's grounded moves and as for zelda's aerial game... its very predictable and easily shielded against.

the better the ROB is, the harder it is for a better zelda to beat him imo... xD

Really? When I try to Ftilt ROB, he pops above the area where I can continue hitting him after at most 3 hits. Usually only 1 or 2.

ROB's Ftilt/Dtilt outranges sheik's everything as well. At least Zelda has a better Projectile and Naryu's to reflect ROB's Beeeems.

 

[choknater]

This is the best thread on the Sheik board.

I emphasize this with the fact that we're only covering Sheik's BAD matchups. Thank you, stealthsushi, thank you. It's very helpful.

 

[stealthsushi]

I'm glad ya love it so much! It makes me a happy person

ROUND 4 is up! This week's match up is: FALCO. While I was considering the Ice-Climbers, they just aren't as prevalent in the tournament scene based on Ankoku's tournament rankings :D

Answer away! Hopefully there'll be more input for Falco than ROB

 

[Snakeee]

It's at least 60/40 Falco's favor. His CG is more deadly than her f-tilt lock (assuming the Falco is somewhat decent at DI). The CG sometimes ends up with a spike too -_-.
It's definitely better to use Zelda for the most part. It would be best if you can transform into Sheik while you're at high enough damage where you won't get damaged and he's low enough for you to f-tilt lock him. I would generally transform only while recovering for thsi.

 

[imdavid]

actually, to be COMPLETELY honest with you, in ALL sincerity. just EAT the lasers. after 50% or so he can't cg you anymore. haha, i just am so impatient and can't bare to watch myself get chaingrabbed forever, so i rather just eat the lasers. after i'm done eating lasers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, i proceed to dodge, duck, dive, dip, and... dodge the lasers and then just proceed to do drephen combos. :]

 

[Snakeee]

So instead of trying to avoid a CG that could cost you around 50%....you should just let him laser you UNTIL 50%? o_O

EDIT: and I'm mad my post on Falco was the last one on the page and no one will probably see it

 

[Villi]

In a serious match, I would go Zelda. She can air dodge his short hopped lasers all day and she beats him pretty good when she's next to him on the ground.

Stay out of Final Destination; it's not worth it! Sheik can crawl under his grounded lasers. You can get by only occasionally getting hit by a short hopped laser very close to the ground. He has a hard time grabbing through spaced nairs.

A few bad habits a typical Falco will have is jab combo to shine. DI away from his jab combo, block the shine and grab him during his lag. Phantasm onto the stage -- if I see him going for a phantasm, either catch him with a shield dashed dsmash or vanish. You could also always just out prioritize it with a nair. They'll try to beat your follow-ups with a dair when you're under them. Just vanish them. If they're in the habit of doing this, count your blessings cause those are some free hits for you.

A poorly spaced phantasm off the edge is easy to gimp with a needle. After that, he's easy edge hogging. A short tether is also very useful in gimping both his recoveries at the right times.

Up close, I alternate between shuffled fairs/nairs, jab->grabs/sidesteps, and tilts. Grab him a lot to get him into the habit of sidestepping so that you can get a vanish kill when you need it.

 

[choknater]

oh my gosh kids, what an easy matchup

a lot of people overestimate falco because of his cg. in all honestly sheik has everything else on falco and i think she has the advantage

here's what you do: go fight lvl 9 falco, put the match at 4-stock, and try to 4-stock him with gimps. falco is SO easy to gimp, wow. (i say 4 stocks cuz 3 is way too easy) practice the match over and over, figure out what to do in all situations, and stay aggressive.

gay stuff you can do:
- a few ftilts until you can dsmash him off the stage. if he drops down, follow him and fair/nair him, and then chain recovery back up. retract your chain when his up-B finishes, and he dies.
- in fact, use any way to get him off the stage, if he drops down, gimp him. if he tries to come back with phantasm, intercept him with needles, nair, or dsmash if he's low enough
- imo there's not really any need for zelda in this matchup since falco dies easily
- if he's not in a gimpable part of the stage, just **** him with ftilts. i don't think it's as bad as fox or wolf, but it's still really bad for him. if he's DIing above you, tipper usmash. if he's DIing into you, double hit usmash. if he's DIing away from you, keep ftilting and eventually nair. very easy
- at low % just don't get grabbed. throw needles, and jab him if he gets close. if you can really tell he's trying to get close for that grab, just roll around, roll behind him even. taking a dsmash is better than getting cg'd
- keep gimping his a$$ that's all there is to it

falco does have a lot of priority over you, but it's not nearly as bad as playing against ROB's or peach's priority. a lot of times you can just approach him with ftilt and he'd take 40+ damage from tilts to followup.

sheik is one of the only characters that completely outspeeds falco. dtilt, ftilt, jabs at close range beat out many of his options. if you get cg'd, it's not like you're dead. unless the falco is really good and predicts all your recovery options, then you just have to recover better.

falco = e-z pickings

i really don't understand why anyone would say this is in falco's favor

soft nair and soft bair combos **** him as well, even unexpected dairs

big tip: if he's actually DIing the tilts properly, alternate left and right tilts, make sure each one is hitting him. sheik has the ftilt hitbox on her thighs and body too. this should annoy falco greatly ;D

no matter what DI falco uses, you can still follow up from a tilt lock

 

[popsofctown]

actually, to be COMPLETELY honest with you, in ALL sincerity. just EAT the lasers. after 50% or so he can't cg you anymore. haha, i just am so impatient and can't bare to watch myself get chaingrabbed forever, so i rather just eat the lasers. after i'm done eating lasers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, i proceed to dodge, duck, dive, dip, and... dodge the lasers and then just proceed to do drephen combos. :]

Oh my gosh. No sarcasm, that's brilliant stuff and i wanna try it. You decay the crap out of his lasers when you do that. Makes sense to me, mighty well lose the fight for the first 50%

 

[NJzFinest]

oh my gosh kids, what an easy matchup

Money match?

here's what you do: go fight lvl 9 falco, put the match at 4-stock, and try to 4-stock him with gimps. falco is SO easy to gimp, wow. (i say 4 stocks cuz 3 is way too easy) practice the match over and over, figure out what to do in all situations, and stay aggressive.p

If he is very easy to gimp, that doesn't effect the matchup as much as you my think since Sheik is lacking in strong moves that knock the opponent decently far off stage.

gay stuff you can do:
- a few ftilts until you can dsmash him off the stage. if he drops down, follow him and fair/nair him, and then chain recovery back up. retract your chain when his up-B finishes, and he dies.

No, you can't. Because a few ftilts doesn't rack up the right % and dsmash isn't that strong...

- in fact, use any way to get him off the stage, if he drops down, gimp him. if he tries to come back with phantasm, intercept him with needles, nair, or dsmash if he's low enough

You'll have to play the guessing game if he's going to go onto the stage or for the sweetspot.

- imo there's not really any need for zelda in this matchup since falco dies easily

Zelda can actually KO him/knock him far off stage lulz

- if he's not in a gimpable part of the stage, just **** him with ftilts. i don't think it's as bad as fox or wolf, but it's still really bad for him. if he's DIing above you, tipper usmash. if he's DIing into you, double hit usmash. if he's DIing away from you, keep ftilting and eventually nair. very easy

DIing inwards and take that usmash isn't all that bad, especially if Falco smash DIs to make it hard for Sheik to even follow up the lock with anything. I'd rather get that then free 50%.

- at low % just don't get grabbed. throw needles, and jab him if he gets close. if you can really tell he's trying to get close for that grab, just roll around, roll behind him even. taking a dsmash is better than getting cg'd

The problem is Falco never needs to apporoach.... rolling around = lol, wanna be grabbed? I can't imagine what kinds of Falcos you have been playing.

- keep gimping his a$$ that's all there is to it

This isn't Melee.

falco does have a lot of priority over you, but it's not nearly as bad as playing against ROB's or peach's priority. a lot of times you can just approach him with ftilt and he'd take 40+ damage from tilts to followup.

If the Falco is bad, this is true.

sheik is one of the only characters that completely outspeeds falco. dtilt, ftilt, jabs at close range beat out many of his options. if you get cg'd, it's not like you're dead. unless the falco is really good and predicts all your recovery options, then you just have to recover better.

Doesn't Sheik outspeed basically any good character but MK? Also, in close range, Falco's uptilt, jab, ftilt, SH spaced Nair and Dair with backwards DI, and retreating lasers into a shine or canceled Forward B beat all of which you've listed.

falco = e-z pickings

i really don't understand why anyone would say this is in falco's favor

Money match?

soft nair and soft bair combos **** him as well, even unexpected dairs

Wut, combos? Also, Nairs and Bairs are going to be pretty hard to land since Falco doesn't need to approach at all/can camp, plus he still has a solid spacing game himself.

I really think Falco is Sheik's worst matchup and the reasons that make Falco a good character in general are more then enough.

 

[stealthsushi]

Ah I'm starting to get some input. I see some disagreement on match-up strategy. How would you approach the Falco match-up NJzFinest? I don't think the matchup can be worse than the Ice Climber's matchup. While Falco has good retreating options, it'll be difficult to camp Sheik using lasers the whole time given that theycan't reach Sheik when she's crawling/crouching (unless the stage has some slants like Yoshi's Island); you can force a limited approach from Sheik, but Falco won't be able to put as much pressure on Sheik with lasers than say... Samus.

Also, Choknater makes a point that gimping Falco is relatively easy, and I have to agree with the gimping, but the hard part is like you said-- getting Falco a considerable distance away from the stage is trickier than it looks. Hopefully more input will be added for discussion :D

 

[ddonaldo]

this match is NOT in sheik favour.
sheik always has to approach falco, i tend to start off a match by crawling towards falco but always have to jump out before he reflects or comes in with a smash.
"dont get grabbed" isnt easy since you are forced to approach meaning you have to come in with aerials which are so easy to punish in brawl with shield grabs although if you space them well you can avoid the grab and get a few f-tilts in.

the good thing about this match up is that falco alos has problems killing you without his up-smash and f-smash requires sweetspotting.

i do find non charged needles can disrupt falcos laser system and sometimes force some sort of an approach or opening

I look forward to getting some tips though

 

[NJzFinest]

I don't think the matchup can be worse than the Ice Climber's matchup.

ICs = Press Down B and Smash DI

While Falco has good retreating options, it'll be difficult to camp Sheik using lasers the whole time given that theycan't reach Sheik when she's crawling/crouching (unless the stage has some slants like Yoshi's Island); you can force a limited approach from Sheik, but Falco won't be able to put as much pressure on Sheik with lasers than say... Samus.

Approaching is a big part of Sheiks game, limiting it cripples the already bad character. Usually when I camp characters that can crawl, it's because I want them to crawl, not simply rack damage/run the timer. They're alot easier to read and get into a grab. 9 out of 10 times, they don't see a Forward B cancel coming.

Also, Choknater makes a point that gimping Falco is relatively easy, and I have to agree with the gimping

I personally think Falco is one of the hardest characters to gimp as long as he isn't forced to use Up B. It's really hard to read any decent Falco using aerials, Forward B, or even lasers to recover. However, if you force him to air dodge, he's screwed. His airdodge lasts longer then alot of characters, that being said, it's almost a guaranteed fact he'll recover with Up B. Only problem is that he'll have to be send far enough off stage.... so yeah, easier said then done and will probably happen when he's already above KOing range.
I think Zelda does a much much better job edgeguarding Falco. Dins Fire can make him airdodge. If he knows you're going to Dins Fire, he'll probably not think rashly and quickly Forward B on stage, which you can catch in a uptilt, upsmash, fsmash. Now, combine that with the fact Zelda's moves actually KO lol.

Also, Zelda can't be grab combo ***** by Falco and has a easier time dealing with camping.

 

[choknater]

ok fine i'm gonna take NJ's word for it

good thing i don't live in NJ, i don't have to worry about any falcos here except for SK92