WEEKLY Matchup Discussion :: ROUND 4: FALCO (8/7/08)

[stealthsushi]

It looks like Zelda has the upperhand in the match-up then given her ability to get Falco off the stage and put pressure on his recovery. Would you guys recommend that this match be done completely with Zelda, or is Sheik/Zelda the way to go? I personally haven't played many Falcos, so this matchup is relatively unknown to me.

As Zelda, can she force Falco to approach her more efficiently than Falco forcing Zelda to approach him? I know Zelda's approaches are just bad in general, but her defensive game is definitely good. I doubt that she can outcamp Falco's lasers given the lag after her Nayru's Love and given her poor approaching options, she looks like she has a similar glaring weakness that Sheik has with limited approaches against Falco.

I guess you make a good point with Zelda making the matchup versus Ice Climbers better than the one versus Falco. Zelda's much trickier to grab and her Din's puts good pressure on the IC's recovery. NJzFinest, do you think that the G&W Sheik/Zelda matchup is worse than the Falco one?

 

[sniperworm]

Falco is a pain in the behind. The chain grab is painful and those lasers are annoying.

Luckily, like people are saying, you can duck or crawl under lasers on flat stages. You can also use needles to hit Falco's feet when he's SH Double Lasering for some free damage (plus it'll make them stop SH Double Lasering or make them start using the reflector which is a free DACUS if you make them guess incorrectly).

At close range I don't know what to say. I get grabbed all the time by Falco (and every character) because I love to shield too much.

As far as gimping Falco, I agree that it's hard. I can't really remember a time when I've gimped a Falco that was half decent (unless they needed to use the UpB of course).

 

[Villi]

As Zelda, can she force Falco to approach her more efficiently than Falco forcing Zelda to approach him? I know Zelda's approaches are just bad in general, but her defensive game is definitely good. I doubt that she can outcamp Falco's lasers given the lag after her Nayru's Love and given her poor approaching options, she looks like she has a similar glaring weakness that Sheik has with limited approaches against Falco.

Zelda can approach a campy Falco better than Sheik can. Her long air dodge and floatiness keep her safe enough from lasers to space herself for an attack.

 

[NJzFinest]

Zelda doesn't have the upperhand, it's just less stressful if you're using her. I remember watching Darkmusician get pooped on by Falcos who were decent at best, I think it's his least favorite matchup. Sure, DM isn't the best Zelda out there, but he has far better experience then most, especially when considering the swarm of newbies into the community.

I see it as the simple fact she's harder to build damage on, has an eas"IER" time with the spam, and can actually kill him makes her a better choice then using or starting with Sheik.

I'd say it's a slight or decent advantage for Falco against Zelda, and strong against Sheik and Sheik/Zelda.

Also I wouldn't say G&W is harder at all, especially having some brief experience in the matchup with lain. I'll post later on this since I have a Chemistry final in a few hours.

 

[Tristan_win]

Now this is interesting...

Early today I was getting chain grabbed by Falco and since I knew DI was pointless at this percentage I decide to test something.

So I started attempt to attack Falco before he grabbed me, first it only traded with the grab but around 30% I was able to land two quick punches thus interrupting Falco chain grab!

This match was online and my opponent wasn't anywhere near a Falco pro but this did happen and I think this should be deeply looked in to as it would make the match up more favorable for Sheik.

Oh a side note You can interrupt Captain Falcon AAA comboing with your AAA combo your first punch cancels his and then you are able to continue with your own AAA combo. I’ve done it on multiple occasions and it seems to be 100% for sure as long as your feet are on the ground.

Edit: I feel so cutting edge right now for this possible discovery =^___^=

 

[Wildfire393]

Falco:

Things to do:

Tilt lock. He fastfalls, so he's very susceptible. Try to end with something that knocks him off.
Edgeguard. He's fairly easy to gimp, so do so.
Don't get grabbed. Not the easiest thing in the world, but he can chain grab you, so be careful. Honestly though, your ftilt lock should be a bigger damage-racker than his chaingrab, just watch for the dair at the end.
Don't jump into the ****. If he chaingrabs into spikes you, make sure you don't jump up into a second spike. If possible, jump up but away from the edge and tether.
Bair a lot. It gives you an approach that's long ranged enough not to just get grabbed.
Combo everything into tilt locks. As a fastfaller, this is easy. Fthrow, Bthrow, Jab, Dtilt, Utilt, Weak Nair, Fair, Weak Bair, they all combo into filts.
Crawl under lasers. Or, as stated, eat a few lasers to make chaingrabbing harder and decay it.

 

[sniperworm]

Zelda doesn't have the upperhand, it's just less stressful if you're using her. I remember watching Darkmusician get pooped on by Falcos who were decent at best, I think it's his least favorite matchup. Sure, DM isn't the best Zelda out there, but he has far better experience then most, especially when considering the swarm of newbies into the community.

I see it as the simple fact she's harder to build damage on, has an eas"IER" time with the spam, and can actually kill him makes her a better choice then using or starting with Sheik.

I'd say it's a slight or decent advantage for Falco against Zelda, and strong against Sheik and Sheik/Zelda.

Also I wouldn't say G&W is harder at all, especially having some brief experience in the matchup with lain. I'll post later on this since I have a Chemistry final in a few hours.

I think all Zelda players get pooped on every once in a while. It's tough to defend yourself once you start getting tossed around in the air.

I agree that Zelda has it easier than Sheik and that both have a disadvantage versus Falco.

Oh, and in case anyone's wondering, DM's least favorite matchup is MK.

 

[swypa101]

pick shiek to get falco weak..

try to kill him if u can but if he gets in the mid hundreds try to go zelda.

Good moves w/ shiek would be: chain, F-tilt lock, b-air (similar to falcos just that falcos is more powerful)
F-air, and needles..needles would be good when hes not expecting it

And w/ zelda, just try to get the sweet spots on the F or B airif not just Fsmash or D Smash

 

[stealthsushi]

The matchup seems to have shifted to a general consensus of "unfavorable" for both Zelda, Sheik, and Sheik/Zelda. Any specfic/general tips and strategies you guys would suggest for handling Falco with each character? Use my template on the first page to make it easy to read so I can make an update for this matchup and get the next one setup

 

[imdavid]

Sheik or Zelda? I'd go with sheik since changing to zelda doesn't do you any good except reflecting lasers that don't even reach back to falco

What to Do: Gimp and ftilt. If off the stage and going to use side-b, use needle which causes him to drop and then just ledge hog or follow up with a fair/bair as he's doing the firebird
Expect: Chaingrabs, spikes, good approaches, and lots of lazors
What NOT to DO: get grabbed, jump into the ****.

Counterpick(s): BF
Reason(s): platforms give you good options to avoid lasering, since the stage is small less area for you to get grabbed

 

[stealthsushi]

Time to give my two cents on the match-up. Hoping some more will come up so I'll have a lot of material to work with.

Sheik or Zelda? Personally, I'd go with Sheik over Zelda if Falco tends to play more defensively. Zelda for more offensive Falcos.

I'll focus on Sheik's strategy for this matchup.

What to Do:
As Sheik
> Utilize Sheik's speed to minimize Falco's laser pressure and camping.
> Stay in Sheik F-Tilt distance of Falco. Single spaced F-Tilts for pressure. Retreating F-Air to autocancel F-Tilt for spacing and defense.
> If you land the F-Tilt, go for a mini lock at low-mid percents. If he DI's up towards you, finish with U-Tilt to get him into the air. If he DI's into you, finish with a grab.
> Get Falco into the air. His ground game is more punishing (chain-grabbing, DLX hit-cancel,
> Edgeguard using needles from a relatively safe distance from the edge. If Falco looks to avoid the needle, he'll Forward-B onto the stage early to avoid being hit with the needle; good spacing will allow you to land some hits upon his landing. If he gets hit, sweetspotting the edge with Forward-B will be more difficult.
> Force him to recover below the "sweetspotting" range for his Forward-B. By disrupting his sweetspot recovery using needles, he'll have to resort to using his Up-B, which is much easier to gimp.


Expect:
> Chain-Grabbing to the edge up until 40%, then followed by an immediate spike.
> D-Throw to DLX-Hit Cancel, aerial, or sweetspotted D-Air.
> Short-hopped, fast-falled Laser retreats and approaches.
> Forward-B to get out of tricky situations and to move quickly about the stage.
> Retreating N-Airs/B-Airs for spacing and poking.
> Reflector (Shine) for occasional spacing.
> B-Airs for edgeguarding and for the KO.


What NOT to DO:
As Sheik:
> Play overly defensive to avoid the chain grab. Its usually inevitable, but play a smart aggressive game until you reach about 30% so the chain grab can't be taken to the edge. A spike forces you to resort to a Vanish that will most likely be punished.
> Be hindered by the lasers. If you try to space farther away, Falco will be given time to rack on percentages with his lasers and force a poor approach from you. Instead, stay somewhat close to Falco to limit his laser usage.
> Be overzealous with the off-stage edgeguarding. His Forward-B has good priority over your aerials and you most likely won't be knocking him THAT far off the stage as Sheik. Instead, apply pressure using needles from a safe distance that allows you to punish non-sweetspotted Forward-B recoveries from Falco. If you force him to use his Up-B, your amazing ground speed can be utilized to go for the easy gimp.

Counterpick(s): Final Destination (Sheik)
Reason(s): The lack of platforms makes it difficult for Falco to find safe areas to use his Forward-B recovery. Also, the size of the stage reduces the possibility for Falco to get you to the edge with his chaingrab. Another plus is that you can crawl through most of the lasers until you can get into range to powershield.

---------------
Maybe someone will help me cover the Zelda-only aspect of this matchup

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'll throw in what I can for the Zelda part of the matchup, but I also struggle with good Falcos so it may not be much.

What to expect:
Falco will still want to Chain Grab
Even though you can reflect them, lasers of all sorts. If you use NL, a good Falco will use the time to move in on you.
Lots of Edgehogging attempts
Forward-B for spacing and getting out of bad situations.

What to do:
SH Din's and aim it so even though you may get hit by a laser, you may trade projectiles. Not necessarily a bad trade.
Make use of Dtilt combos. These will rack good damage and/or kill at high percentages.
Look for opportunities for Uair. Din's at around 60 or 70% can setup for Uair very well.
Stay grounded. As bad as it may seem, Zelda is at an evem worse disadvantage in the air.
Look to get back on stage rather than sweetspot the ledge. In my experience against Falco, I've died more to the edgehogging of FW rather than knocked off screen. Maybe it's just me.
Zelda can easily KO Falco at low damages with literally any aerial or a Dtilt to Utilt finish combo, so if it looks bad, remember a lightning kick can change the complexion quickly.

I personally struggle with the CG to Dair myself so I'm trying to get help from the Zelda boards to aid my Zelda/Sheik game against Falco. It isn't as bad when I'm Sheik since I have the chain to help recover, but Zelda either has to sweetspot the ledge or go out of her way to find an angle back to the stage. Any Advice?

Feel free to add on or criticize. I too also need help against Falco, he annoys me terribly!

 

[popsofctown]

sadly, i only get to play a mediocre Falco, we go even. I don't think the matchup is that bad, because the same guy can destroy a lot with his other chars, but i find things i can do.

It really feels to me like Zelda and Sheik have an even shot in this fight. I would recommend mixing it up, using Sheik sometimes, using Zelda sometimes, keeping the opponent confused. (of course, you would need to practice both sides of the matchup to keep from confusion yourself!). The weird things about Sheik then Zelda here is that it's kind of backwards, Shiek doesn't want to be at a low percent.

I have an idea.. what if we played it Zelda, with Sheik harming next stock? For example, you play the first stock as Zelda, and both of you take damage and you try to kill him before he kills you. Then you transform and fight with Sheik at high percent and Falco at a low percent.

If you don't kill him first, then just stick with Zelda and kill him quickly with your fresh moves. Then switch back to Sheik. Any damage you took because you DIDN'T get the first kill somewhat works for you instead of against you, because the damage gets transferred to Sheik.


I like this, this hurts my brain.

um, oh, stuff, upsmash beats bair, use airdodge-NLove (though that's a personal favorite technique i've never seen in a video), definitely don't overuse Din's, or try to use NLove for reflection at all. I think nairs are somewhat useful in this fight, like, as an approach. I want to harken on using N-Love for close combat. It can effectively punish his slap and spin, his Fsmash (with timing and spacing of course), and a bunch of other stuff.

I think it's beneficial to play this fight aggressively, with both characters.

 

[-dMT-]

sadly, i only get to play a mediocre Falco, we go even. I don't think the matchup is that bad, because the same guy can destroy a lot with his other chars, but i find things i can do.

It really feels to me like Zelda and Sheik have an even shot in this fight. I would recommend mixing it up, using Sheik sometimes, using Zelda sometimes, keeping the opponent confused. (of course, you would need to practice both sides of the matchup to keep from confusion yourself!). The weird things about Sheik then Zelda here is that it's kind of backwards, Shiek doesn't want to be at a low percent.

I have an idea.. what if we played it Zelda, with Sheik harming next stock? For example, you play the first stock as Zelda, and both of you take damage and you try to kill him before he kills you. Then you transform and fight with Sheik at high percent and Falco at a low percent.

If you don't kill him first, then just stick with Zelda and kill him quickly with your fresh moves. Then switch back to Sheik. Any damage you took because you DIDN'T get the first kill somewhat works for you instead of against you, because the damage gets transferred to Sheik.

Funny that you mention this. I've been working on my Zelda lately so yesterday I played a lot of Zelda during friendlies.
On 1 match tho, I played first stock as Zelda and got the KO. I had 100+% and decided I'd switch to Sheik. As soon as he spawned I just rushed him and with a long string of uninterrupted tilts, fairs and throws I racked an easy 70-80% on his 2nd stock.

The change of pace completely threw him off. This, I, believe is where Zelda/Sheik's greatest strength is.

 

[sniperworm]

Sheik or Zelda? I agree with stealthsushi (Sheik for defensive falcos and Zelda for offensive ones).

What to Do (Sheik):
> Try to stay at midrange against Falco. At midrange his SH Double Lasers are much less effective. You can use needles on his feet as he falls down (to stop him from shooting the second one) or DACUS can catch him if you're at the right distance and can instantly recognize the SH Double Laser (very risky, not suggested unless it could kill Falco).
> Crouch / crawl if caught unaware by lasers.
> Space with F-tilts and Needles.
> Retreat any attempted SH aerials versus a grounded Falco
> Get aggressive on Falco once you launch him into the air.
> Use Zelda once you get Falco to higher percents.
> Be very patient and wait for the correct opportunities to attack.

What Not to Do (Sheik):
> Don't blindly attack Falco (giving him easy shield grab opportunities).
> Don't stay right next to Falco or extremely far away.
> Don't get caught by the big hit area of his Fsmash.
> Don't get crazy with edgeguards. Use the extra time to either get some needles or change to Zelda.

Expect (Sheik):
> Lasers
> Chaingrabs to Dair spikes
> Bair, Dair, Nair
> Predicted Fsmash when you're at high percents (don't be predictable with dodges)

What to Do (Zelda):
> Use Din's occasionally at midrange to trade with SH Double Lasers.
> Use Fsmash and Usmash if Falco approaches for combat at close range (make sure you don't whiff).
> Save Dsmash for higher percents (to kill or set up edgeguards).
> Get Falco in the air and above you.
> SH Sweetspotted Bair is great for mistake punishing.
> Edgeguard with Din's until you can intercept Falco near the stage (like onstage or very, very close to it).

What Not to Do (Zelda):
> Try to reflect lasers.
> Try to approach with Fair, Bair, or Din's.
> Go jumping off the stage to edgeguard.
> Use Din's to edgeguard when he's close to the edge.
> Airdodge too early.
> Do something silly that gets you spiked.

Expect (Zelda):
> Lasers
> Jabs
> Grabs
> Up and Down Smashes for kill moves
> Bair and Dair

Counterpick (Sheik or Zelda/Sheik): Final Destination
Reason(s): Gives Sheik lots of space to move and keep appropriate spacing. Helps to protect Sheik from chaingrab to spike. Amplifies Falco's difficulty in killing you and reduces his chances to edgeguard. Lack of platforms makes it harder for Falco to recover safely.

Counterpick (Zelda): Battlefield
Reason(s): Small stage reduces his chances to SH Double Laser safely. Platforms make Falco more vulnerable if you can get him above you. Platforms make kill moves easier to land (Fair, Bair, Uair, Utilt, and Usmash). Platforms allow Zelda more recovery options.

 

[Beetle Juice]

Sheik or Zelda? I'd go with sheik since changing to zelda doesn't do you any good except reflecting lasers that don't even reach back to falco

What to Do: Gimp and ftilt. If off the stage and going to use side-b, use needle which causes him to drop and then just ledge hog or follow up with a fair/bair as he's doing the firebird
Expect: Chaingrabs, spikes, good approaches, and lots of lazors
What NOT to DO: get grabbed, jump into the ****.

Counterpick(s): BF
Reason(s): platforms give you good options to avoid lasering, since the stage is small less area for you to get grabbed

falcos don't care if lasers are reflected by zelda. Just to let you falcos double lasers can reach the platforms on BF so its a no no. I would recommend zelda for this stage because of her upsmash which makes it hard for falco to reach the ground.

now as for shiek... tilt lock and hope you aren't facing my falco

 

[Snakeee]

now as for shiek... tilt lock and hope you aren't facing my falco

Money Match my Sheik/Zelda?
I think I do better against him with them than ZSS now.

 

[Beetle Juice]

snakeee next time i go to the bi-weekly i will take your offer lol

 

[NJzFinest]

Snake, I'll money match yours next time we ever meet ^^

 

[Snakeee]

snakeee next time i go to the bi-weekly i will take your offer lol

Alright cool, but the weekly's are off for now. Bum got fired

Snake, I'll money match yours next time we ever meet ^^

Alrighty, I'll be at Terrabite and Montage.

 

[The Great Leon]

So I've gotten to know Falco as a character lately. I'm not playing top calibur characters, but I understand the matchup well enough.

Sheik or Zelda?
Sheik->Zelda. F-tilt lock > D-tilt lock. And F-tilt lock -> Zelda KO moves is pretty viable.

What to Do:
Crouch Crouch Crouch Crouch Crouch. Laser's can hit you GG. Gimmicky, but it works. Low stances are put into games to be abused. You can crawl around a bit, but you can get sniped out of your crawl animation. You can't approach, but unless they're stalling a tourney match, they'll stop lasering and come to you. Or mindgame and laser again. The point is they will do something that evens the playingfield more in your favor.

F-tilt lock to ~70 -> tipper upsmash. Kills bad DI on FD, good DI results into a Zelda transformation for the kill. Practice the timing for the lock, and learn what % you can keep them till. You won't get a perfect lock every time, but its good to know nonetheless.

Punish his recovery. Needles and B-Air knock him out of it. Falco's recovery is pretty predictable. If he tries to go over you (they won't) run up and punish with your choice of moves. If they try to hit you with it, you can needle him off the stage to knock him down a bit and force his Up-B. Or you can B-Air and send him up/out to reset this scenario. You can shield on the stage, if you're properly spaced and quickly catch him during his landing lag, or you can Up-B and send him out with your invuln frames. Kills, or sets up to Zelda.

Expect:
Ch-Ch-Chaingrab. He can keep you to the mid 40's. Stay on platforms or close to the ledges at low % and in the middle of the stage at high %. Getting CG'd halfway across FD and spiked is a pretty bad situation to be in. Some people may have different advice about where to be, but just stay where you think is the safest. I don't know what to say about staying Zelda for your first 40%. My Zelda blows.

Like Lucario, Falco loves to D-Air. Up-B his approach; take advantage of those invuln frames. I think of it kind of like Wolf's Reflector. Put Falco in the air (D or U Throw) and wait for him to take the bait. You should probably save it for high %'s, of course.

What NOT to DO:
Stand up straight. Crouch.

Needle while you're parallel to him. If you want to trade fully charges needles for 2 laser, that's your decision, but don't try to charge them at the start of the fight on FD. Stand on a platform if you really want the charge. I usually don't needle much during this matchup. You can charge while he's in the air though.

Roll predictably. His F-Smash is a great tech/roll chase. Know his moves, and stay in a safe position. Never risk taking damage if you don't have to (IMO).

Counterpicks:
I like Brinstar. The stage is small, so he can't CG you for more than a few. And the ground is sloped, so CG is further foiled while Sheik gets cool wavelanding effects on her aerials. He can't CG you so much, but you can still F-tilt lock him. Breaking the goop in the middle is not so bad for Sheik, while it can interfere with Falco's Side-B spacing. And you can roll behind the little pillars to charge needles and have a laser shield.

At this point in time the matchup feels like 55-45 Sheik to me. If it comes down to gaying each other, he can CG to 40 while you can tilt lock to 70 and tipper up-smash. I swear, just crouch and its like Falco has no projectile. Falco's a better character, but to me the tilt lock barely swing this from bing 5-5.

UNRELIABLE TRICK
While crawling towards Falco, many try to Down-B you. Joke's on them cuz it will go over you and you will reach him unharmed.

 

[-Mars-]

So I've gotten to know Falco as a character lately. I'm not playing top calibur characters, but I understand the matchup well enough.

Sheik or Zelda?
Sheik->Zelda. F-tilt lock > D-tilt lock. And F-tilt lock -> Zelda KO moves is pretty viable.

What to Do:
Crouch Crouch Crouch Crouch Crouch. Laser's can hit you GG. Gimmicky, but it works. Low stances are put into games to be abused. You can crawl around a bit, but you can get sniped out of your crawl animation. You can't approach, but unless they're stalling a tourney match, they'll stop lasering and come to you. Or mindgame and laser again. The point is they will do something that evens the playingfield more in your favor.

F-tilt lock to ~70 -> tipper upsmash. Kills bad DI on FD, good DI results into a Zelda transformation for the kill. Practice the timing for the lock, and learn what % you can keep them till. You won't get a perfect lock every time, but its good to know nonetheless.

Punish his recovery. Needles and B-Air knock him out of it. Falco's recovery is pretty predictable. If he tries to go over you (they won't) run up and punish with your choice of moves. If they try to hit you with it, you can needle him off the stage to knock him down a bit and force his Up-B. Or you can B-Air and send him up/out to reset this scenario. You can shield on the stage, if you're properly spaced and quickly catch him during his landing lag, or you can Up-B and send him out with your invuln frames. Kills, or sets up to Zelda.

Expect:
Ch-Ch-Chaingrab. He can keep you to the mid 40's. Stay on platforms or close to the ledges at low % and in the middle of the stage at high %. Getting CG'd halfway across FD and spiked is a pretty bad situation to be in. Some people may have different advice about where to be, but just stay where you think is the safest. I don't know what to say about staying Zelda for your first 40%. My Zelda blows.

Like Lucario, Falco loves to D-Air. Up-B his approach; take advantage of those invuln frames. I think of it kind of like Wolf's Reflector. Put Falco in the air (D or U Throw) and wait for him to take the bait. You should probably save it for high %'s, of course.

What NOT to DO:
Stand up straight. Crouch.

Needle while you're parallel to him. If you want to trade fully charges needles for 2 laser, that's your decision, but don't try to charge them at the start of the fight on FD. Stand on a platform if you really want the charge. I usually don't needle much during this matchup. You can charge while he's in the air though.

Roll predictably. His F-Smash is a great tech/roll chase. Know his moves, and stay in a safe position. Never risk taking damage if you don't have to (IMO).

Counterpicks:
I like Brinstar. The stage is small, so he can't CG you for more than a few. And the ground is sloped, so CG is further foiled while Sheik gets cool wavelanding effects on her aerials. He can't CG you so much, but you can still F-tilt lock him. Breaking the goop in the middle is not so bad for Sheik, while it can interfere with Falco's Side-B spacing. And you can roll behind the little pillars to charge needles and have a laser shield.

At this point in time the matchup feels like 55-45 Sheik to me. If it comes down to gaying each other, he can CG to 40 while you can tilt lock to 70 and tipper up-smash. I swear, just crouch and its like Falco has no projectile. Falco's a better character, but to me the tilt lock barely swing this from bing 5-5.

UNRELIABLE TRICK
While crawling towards Falco, many try to Down-B you. Joke's on them cuz it will go over you and you will reach him unharmed.

I think one of the main things that your missing here is that Falco can combo out of his grabs, he doesn't just use them for the chaingrab. His aerials also outprioritize you and this is a pain since he can play defensively the whole match. It's 60:40 Falco in my opinion. Oh and is this thread supposed to die? I noticed there was another matchup thread.

 

[The Great Leon]

its a gayfest. falco can grab sheik to ~45 into pretty much any smash he wants and can continue to do so for a while. sheik can tilt to 70 -> tipper upsmash to zelda. idk seems about even to me.

 

[Squidster]

You could start as zelda until your at about 40-50%

You could counter pick norfair and dance about the platform. You drop through and use your tether and have much more mobility than falco. There isn't enough room to chaingrab but plenty of room to tilt lock. Sweet deal.

 

[Blad01]

So, is this thread dedad ? :x

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

falco.... prone to being tilt locked, but has a really hard time with Zelda..... I really don't think there's a wrong way to approach this matcup... but I prefer using a Zelda heavy assault.

 

[choknater]

You could start as zelda until your at about 40-50%

You could counter pick norfair and dance about the platform. You drop through and use your tether and have much more mobility than falco. There isn't enough room to chaingrab but plenty of room to tilt lock. Sweet deal.

good idea thanks

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Isn't Sheik's tilt lock on Falco works til 40

 

[choknater]

yeah something like that

it's better to just do 1 or 2 ftilt to dsmash then edge guard

just watch the DI

if they DO happen to di wrong

then ftilt to 90% and usmash yayuhzzzz

 

[clowsui]

you guys have basically got to watch space the entire time. falco has good tools (ftilt, utilt, shine, lasers, gatling, boost and CG), so keep the space between you and the bird!
falco's ground game is really nice especially if they're good at IAPs (immediate aerial phantasms) but you're smarter than that, so just throw out a needle once they're far away every once in a while. this way they'll be afraid to IAP.
Ironically enough the best distance to have a Falco at is far away, especially as Sheik. He can force a crawl but that's dumb since the only thing he can do is:
1. Keep lasering (approach him)
2. IAP (back up a bit and dtilt...or just get up if you want and jump away)
3. Come towards you (as soon as he starts getting pretty close just get up)

you really have to watch out for u/dsmashes from him but you have no real trouble gimping lulz
just ftilt -> dsmash or whatever, bthrow -> bair works too. once he is below the lip of the stage and is forced to use firebird it's your game, chainhog. don't even switch to zelda for the kill...if you switch then just do it to refresh moves. i prefer a pummel refresh but whatever *shrug*

 

[The Great Leon]

spamming it doesnt work so well. if you time it just right it works to 70. btw im thinking 55-45 falco's favor.

 

[Steel]

*intrudes*

we're discussing sheik in marth boards, so far we think it is either 60:40 marth or 50:50. feel free to contribute

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195174

 

[Blad01]

GUIDELINES
Sheik or Zelda? Hum... 40-60 for sheik, 50-50 for Zelda. So if you're good with Zelda you can pick her instead.

What to Do: FTilt lock until 40%. Push Falco off the stage. Then if he Phantasms > Nair, Firebird > What you want
Expect: Lasers and Phantasm on spacing, Chaingrab to rack up damages, and SH Dair / Bair principally.
What NOT to DO: Attack his shield. You will get shieldchaingrabbed Follow Falco off the stage too much (you would get spiked).

Counterpick(s): Lylat System, Norfair.
Reason(s):
Lylat > Hard for Falco's lasers principally. The stage can lead him to a missed recovery.
Norfair > No space for his chaingrab, lasers AND IAP, but you can still FTilt.

 

[clowsui]

god norfair ***** falco so bad
if you are comfortable with that stage, pick Delfino Plaza. Falcos get ***** hardcore there lol...it's such a bad stage for the bird since it has a weak enough spike that it's not going to drown you easily
rainbow cruise messes him up pretty bad too - but only pick that stage if you're good at it
PS1 is a nice pick since the most often performed recovery w/ Falco is SS'd phantasm and it's difficult to do on that stage. plus the transforming doesn't really help him

 

[Blad01]

We need to go on O_O

Sushi, are you still here ? :x