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Wario vs. MK, an even Matchup?
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
I don't like this matchup at all.
Watching Fiction's match made me realize what I've been doing wrong all this time, though.
I'm supposed to airdodge spam instead of actually try to outsmart those quick aerials with some sort of risk.
I am now the greatest Wario player ever. Everyone must be scared, huh?
Watching Fiction's match made me realize what I've been doing wrong all this time, though.
I'm supposed to airdodge spam instead of actually try to outsmart those quick aerials with some sort of risk.
I am now the greatest Wario player ever. Everyone must be scared, huh?
CO18
Smash Hero
fiction beat m2k in losers finals yesterday
I heard. Serious business.
I wonder if the poison ivy was a serious impediment for M2K at the time, though, since he was BAWWW'ing about it a few days beforehand.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
I wonder if Reflex winning with PT in the worst possible Brawl region in the US actually means something if you look at it that way.
It probably doesn't mean very much at all.
Either way, I wasn't attempting to take anything from Fiction, although I guess it'd be easy to say otherwise. I acknowledge him as a better Wario, surely.
CO18
Smash Hero
How was it the worst region in the U.S? You obviously don't know much.
I can name like 30 states without a player even as half as good as Kismet/Reflex/Lee Martin.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Jumpman says... stuff sometimes.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Fix'd that.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Dojo
Smash Champion
Tourney Play in Seattle.
He actually got 3rd. He lost to Tyrant 3-1 in Winners Finals and then lost game 5 last hit against Fiction in Losers.
He actually got 3rd. He lost to Tyrant 3-1 in Winners Finals and then lost game 5 last hit against Fiction in Losers.
Sushi-Man
Smash Ace
Did Tyrant play as mk or snake against m2k?
Master Raven
Smash Master
Meta Knight.
They have the set on the Ustream channel somewhere. Tyrant's really smart at dittos lol
They have the set on the Ustream channel somewhere. Tyrant's really smart at dittos lol
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
At least I know I am. You try and fail regardless.
Dojo
Smash Champion
Tyrant wasn't really THAT great at the ditto. I had talked to Jason before TourneyPlay in which he said Tyrant had seemed easier than before.
At Whobo we played two tourney sets in which he only managed to get me to one stock the one game where he planked. He's obviously very good, but I'm kinda surprised this happened.
At Whobo we played two tourney sets in which he only managed to get me to one stock the one game where he planked. He's obviously very good, but I'm kinda surprised this happened.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I'm sorry but someone thinking it's 30:70 I just found that hilarious
It might be close to that if the wario doesn't you know use the airdodge.
BAWWWWWI'm sorry but someone thinking it's 30:70 I just found that hilarious
It might be close to that if the wario doesn't you know use the airdodge.
Guess what my MK problem was before.
vicious1990
Smash Apprentice
i hate warios end of discussion.
Sadly, I have yet to play an amazing Wario with MK. I'm going to believe that MK has a very slight advantage until I play one myself.
You have to keep in mind that a matchup being even can only be determined from the highest level.
Anyone losing to any wario doesn't mean anything because there are factors like matchup experience, overall skill, and how the players have adapted to each other over time.
Mew2king and Fiction both have sufficient experience in the matchup, and are both at the highest level of metagame for their respective characters, which is why it's a relatively reliable example. Not saying it's evidence of the matchup being even, but it's something we can accurately base data concerning the matchup off of.
Anyone losing to any wario doesn't mean anything because there are factors like matchup experience, overall skill, and how the players have adapted to each other over time.
Mew2king and Fiction both have sufficient experience in the matchup, and are both at the highest level of metagame for their respective characters, which is why it's a relatively reliable example. Not saying it's evidence of the matchup being even, but it's something we can accurately base data concerning the matchup off of.
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
that sounded uber scientific
While that's true you have to keep matchups decisions within the spectrum of how people actually play, which I guess is why the metagame advances as styles change. Apparently Judge destroyed reflex at COT4 (or whenever it was) using a campy style, but it doesn't necessarily mean Reflex didn't have means to get around it. Just like the MK player may not play at the abosolute most effective style, the wario player may not either. Wario's best strategy is probably to get a lead then camp just as hard while baiting farts. But fiction definetly didn't play like that either.
Sure that makes it seem like any matchup is that subjective (since the few will ever be willing to push the metagame to the point where there's no point in playing), but since neither character can force the other to approach without getting a lead inthis matchup, it could be used either way (MK's defensive options are better than Warios, but Wario punishes MK's offense worse concerning hit to hit basis).
Sure that makes it seem like any matchup is that subjective (since the few will ever be willing to push the metagame to the point where there's no point in playing), but since neither character can force the other to approach without getting a lead inthis matchup, it could be used either way (MK's defensive options are better than Warios, but Wario punishes MK's offense worse concerning hit to hit basis).
The point I am trying to make is that, yes both characters can camp each other, but overall MK wins when he camps. Look at the matches Wario wins vs good MK players. They involve the MK being overly aggressive, and overall not camping as hard as they should to guarantee the advantage. The matches Wario loses are the ones where MK plays extremely safe and camps, regardless of the method Wario takes (camping or approaching).
If MK decides to camp you, you lose with Wario. The work you have to put in to hitting him is MUCH harder than what he has to put into keeping you away. If Wario decides to camp, MK still has safe approaching options. Sure, he can get punished if he picks something unsafe, but he does fine when he doesn't choose to Dair 4 times in a row or Uair and then Fair.
Wario is able to win this matchup by hoping MK messes up the most. MK wins by playing boring and not making those mistakes, hence Wario cannot punish MK, is forced to approach, and then gets camped even when he does his safest approaches. Wario cannot play a reverse role in this matchup sadly without assuming MK is making mistakes he can avoid by approaching safer.
Fiction came on to smashboards after beating M2K in that set, and he still thinks MK has the advantage against Wario. When you have someone saying something not positive of their own character, even after beating their opponent, chances are it's probably true.
If MK decides to camp you, you lose with Wario. The work you have to put in to hitting him is MUCH harder than what he has to put into keeping you away. If Wario decides to camp, MK still has safe approaching options. Sure, he can get punished if he picks something unsafe, but he does fine when he doesn't choose to Dair 4 times in a row or Uair and then Fair.
Wario is able to win this matchup by hoping MK messes up the most. MK wins by playing boring and not making those mistakes, hence Wario cannot punish MK, is forced to approach, and then gets camped even when he does his safest approaches. Wario cannot play a reverse role in this matchup sadly without assuming MK is making mistakes he can avoid by approaching safer.
Fiction came on to smashboards after beating M2K in that set, and he still thinks MK has the advantage against Wario. When you have someone saying something not positive of their own character, even after beating their opponent, chances are it's probably true.
That's true and the matchup is probably 55-45. MK options winning overall is what makes the matchup in his favor. Mabye I was just being a little too technical with it, I agree with you. I tend to go off on a tangent once I get some good vocabularly going in a sentence. =D
Mew2King
King of the Mews
I beat Fiction 2-0 first set, 1 stock mid % twice. He beat me 3-2 last stock 145 of last game the 2nd set. I was splitting with Tyrant so I didn't care much about beating him, but I still tried the last two but lost 4th game. He was just playing well that day and I was being stupid I guess I didn't care enough idk. Fiction is the best Wario. Fiction beat Tyrant 3-1 their first set, on two occasions being up 3 stock to 1 in matches. Tyrant won 3-1 2nd set. Fiction and Tyrant are pretty much even overall based off watching their matches, pretty much being a coin flip.
If MK has the advantage, it's definitely no worse than 55:45 imo
If MK has the advantage, it's definitely no worse than 55:45 imo
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
yeah, tyrant played that matchup sooo wrong though.. it was sad v_v
i was like.. oh ****.. smart pick.. maybe tyrant's DDD will be as **** as his mk.. then i was just like .. oh ****.......
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
MK ***** wario and is broken end of story 
When did this happen? Weren't you anti ban like a month ago or something?MK ***** wario and is broken end of story
Popertop
Smash Champion
Tyrant legitly beat M2K in the set he won. The only match M2K SDed Tyrant was still ahead a whole stock anyway. But M2K obviously stepped his game up and adapted based on the most recent results....though FoW did knock out tyrant (not sure who knocked him out of winners).
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
you mean you're not sure who knocked out tyrant in winners?
M2K knocked him out. he was beating him pretty badly and tyrant quit during the second match.
**** yeah that sounds about right. M2K adapts too fast, so Tyrant definitely wouldn't beat him twice in a row tourney wise.
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
if u watch the match u can see tyrant was moving a lot, running left and right airdodging smart which threw m2k off since his insane edguard and gimp skills werent working.
he found a way around it.
vs fiction idk tho. wario battles go either way and u gota be in the right mind set for it. meaning 7 min match, camp when in the lead hard
he found a way around it.
vs fiction idk tho. wario battles go either way and u gota be in the right mind set for it. meaning 7 min match, camp when in the lead hard
ruin`
Smash Journeyman
Look at how Tyrant played at whobo. I don't believe tyrant just jumped aeons of skill levels in a month and beat m2k in washington. Also, consider the level that m2k was playing at. Review these two matches.
Match 1: Dojo vs m2k at whobo= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QiUTSw7wEg
Match 2: m2k vs tyrant = http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1624068
Tyrant match: Seriously? Eating fully charged f.smash by ledge drop + jump land bam? Shuttle looping super low below the stage?
Dojo match: Look how safe m2k is playing. Baiting dojos dash grabs or walk up f.tilts in order to get his own f.tilts or dash grab comboes off.
Vs fiction, don't even get me started. Fiction was doing soo much punishable stuff, I don't even want to begin counting.
In the wario matchup, mk's need to learn how to appropriately alternate between being aggressive with u.air/tornado/f.tilt and defensive f.smashing with u.air and shuttle loop to defend the vertical areas. I'll try to get a video up so the match can be easier to breakdown.
Match 1: Dojo vs m2k at whobo= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QiUTSw7wEg
Match 2: m2k vs tyrant = http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1624068
Tyrant match: Seriously? Eating fully charged f.smash by ledge drop + jump land bam? Shuttle looping super low below the stage?
Dojo match: Look how safe m2k is playing. Baiting dojos dash grabs or walk up f.tilts in order to get his own f.tilts or dash grab comboes off.
Vs fiction, don't even get me started. Fiction was doing soo much punishable stuff, I don't even want to begin counting.
In the wario matchup, mk's need to learn how to appropriately alternate between being aggressive with u.air/tornado/f.tilt and defensive f.smashing with u.air and shuttle loop to defend the vertical areas. I'll try to get a video up so the match can be easier to breakdown.