Wario vs. MK, an even Matchup?

[OverLade]

I've been feeling like MK vs. Wario is a closer matchup than MK vs. Snake, and definetly at least even.

I personally feel I know both matchups very well, and always do extremely well against either matchup. But It seems like against Wario, the amount of mistakes you can make is SEVERELY limited in comparison to the number of mistakes Wario can make. To kill a Wario you will likely have to get his damage to 150%. For wario to kill you, and Uair at 110% will generally do the trick, and even then, if you get farted on, you'll be dying as early as 50%.

Here are some of my matches as I slowly learned the Wario matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEu0vuq60Rc - Me vs. Afro Thundah. I felt extremely pressured in this matchup and didn't know how to approach very well at all. I got Farted on several times and took a lot of damage from Shuttle loops etc...this was the first time I had played a good wario in a very long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zhEGp74Ybk - Me vs. Masky a Wario from Gainesville. This was the first time I got extended practice in the wario matchup. I felt very comfortable with it at this point. I lost one match due to a fart however.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVTQhquIqUU - Me vs. Gmoney currently the best Wario in Fl since Afro retired. I felt pretty comfortable in this match as well but I found it annoying that getting farted on could change a match that I was dominating into an even one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ4ZS6wd1vk - Me vs. Reflex - Tourney match from last saturday. From the wario practice earlier in the week I felt very confident and on the first stock played almost flawlessly. But still, I made a few mistakes here and there, and that was enough for me to lose.

Even without the fart Wario seemed to get enough game on MK simply by punishing, but the fart is a psycological annoyance, and can easily turn the tide of the match. If MK were to play flawlessly then Wario would be unable to touch him, but intelligent mixups by the wario player as well as mistakes by the MK player seem to compensate well for this.

The matchup thread currently says its 60:40 but I highly disagree. It seems like a matchup that you can learn but will always come down to the skill of the player rather than any matchup knowledge.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

the wario boards also say that the matchup is 50-50, with a slight advantage at the worst in mk's favor

 

[Nic64]

I think it's 55:45 MK or so, Wario does have a lot in survivability and power, but MK's range makes it really hard for Wario to get in and do much. Possibly closer than that but I'd agree that player skill is the main factor in this matchup, I just think it's a bit easier for the MK.

 

[PhantomX]

It's not really that hard to get in your range, and our grab range is enormous anyway. Also, who cares if we have to take 3 times the hits that we deal, when we kill you in 1/3 of the damage?

 

[nasir123]

well yeah i think it is an easy match up fer wario because 1 the grab release isn't too bad and also the because that like a lot of warios atacks can out prioratize the tornada. and yeah man i think its like 50 - 5o

 

[Nic64]

It's not really that hard to get in your range, and our grab range is enormous anyway. Also, who cares if we have to take 3 times the hits that we deal, when we kill you in 1/3 of the damage?

yeah not saying it's impossible or anything, like I said I think it mostly depends on who is better in the matchup/plays better

and I have to agree with hal about the fart psychological advantage, being at potential kill % at 50-60% is scary

 

[Shadow 111]

those were good matches RedHalberd. you're sooo patient O_O.
i think wario probably does go even with mk as well. IMO it's completely even. i don't see much advantage to either side based on the low percents mk dies at and wario's fatness XD. mk can rack damage easily, but getting a kill is difficult.

 

[PhantomX]

I killed an MK at 40 once! Haha, no charging fsmashes near the edge :D

 

[FunkMaster]

hmm
since Wario's down B is stronger when un-fully charged maybe it may be best
to take note of the time passed since the last down B then when time is close
to however long it takes for it to charge to it's most powerful concerning knockback
then start running away until the down B is fully charged.

 

[Vel]

I hate the fatman -_-

That being said, I'm not sure if the matchup is hard because Wario is just that good, or if his metagame just isn't as well known as MK's. I mean, everyone knows how to deal with MK: his little quirks have all been explored, his entire playstyle has been dissected, and every board has analyzed him for any weaknesses. Whereas the rest of the cast has gotten a free pass - only their most obvious shortcomings are well-known, and not much of their subtle quirks has been looked at, and the 'best' playstyle is still up for debate.

 

[WingedKnight]

Yeah, this one is definitely dead even. Either one may have the advantage on some stages, but this is about as tricky as it gets for MK. Definitely up there as a contender for his worst matchup.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Use MK's grounded shuttle loop more in this match when your in range. But don't use glide attack when Wario is able to shield, unless you want to get shield grabbed. I'll only use glide attack when Wario is in the air, cause then he wont be able to shield.

 

[Master Raven]

I'm interested in this matchup.

Too bad the only good Wario I know of in SFL is like an hour and a half away *cough*

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

DSF did pretty well with Wario at the beginning with M2K but then he proceeded to get *****.

 

[OverLade]

Yeah, this one is definitely dead even. Either one may have the advantage on some stages, but this is about as tricky as it gets for MK. Definitely up there as a contender for his worst matchup.

I think it's probably his 2nd hardest matchup. Or at least tied for snake because Wario is harder to gimp and dies later.....

those were good matches RedHalberd. you're sooo patient O_O.

Thanks, if you had to take public transportation in Florida....you'd be patient as well lol. I'm really just patient by nature though. Wait till my MK dittos with Seibrik come out.....

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Could this be..0.0..MK's first matchup dissadvantage..0.0
(wario vs MK: 55-45, wario's advantage)?

 

[Shadow 111]

Could this be..0.0..MK's first matchup dissadvantage..0.0
(wario vs MK: 55-45, wario's advantage)?

definitely not. at the least for mk it's even. i think it's actually 55-45 mk advantage.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

definitely not. at the least for mk it's even. i think it's actually 55-45 mk advantage.

argh.
Well thats just too bad.

 

[OverLade]

definitely not. at the least for mk it's even. i think it's actually 55-45 mk advantage.

I feel that on paper it's about that but human error will always make it closer to even.

I think if you're looking for a MK counter and don't want to use Snake then Wario is probably you're best option. Provided that you actually play him well of course, just like any other character.

 

[bobson]

What does Wario do when Metaknight decides to plank forever? I think that's a big turning point in the matchup.

 

[Shadow 111]

What does Wario do when Metaknight decides to plank forever? I think that's a big turning point in the matchup.

most tournaments ban excessive stalling LOL. ppl are so stupid...

 

[Master Raven]

Planking forever is ledge stalling so you'd risk getting DQed.

 

[Crizthakidd]

yea this really sucks. warios are getting hard. not even air campy ones just ones that out smart you and learn the times to bite/grab/smash and finally fart and stuff

mk
snake/wario
diddy


in that order are mks hardest matchup =D

 

[PhantomX]

Wario can throw his bike at MK (C-stick down throw of the bike will make it bounce forwards quite slowly, so it's likely to get you after your invince frames are gone) or break it apart to refresh moves/have wheels to throw. Either way while you're planking he's charging a fart.

 

[_Phloat_]

most tournaments ban excessive stalling LOL. ppl are so stupid...

Planking is heavily debated, some consider it stalling some don't. Judging by your posts, I don't think you should be calling bobson stupid.

 

[Shadow 111]

Planking is heavily debated, some consider it stalling some don't. Judging by your posts, I don't think you should be calling bobson stupid.

i wasn't directing my insult at bobson sir.

 

[OverLade]

yea this really sucks. warios are getting hard. not even air campy ones just ones that out smart you and learn the times to bite/grab/smash and finally fart and stuff

mk
snake/wario
diddy


in that order are mks hardest matchup =D

I cant say whos harder, Falco or diddy because we only have one Diddy in FL and Ive played him once a long time ago.

But playing Kismet made me hate Falco.....god.

 

[PhantomX]

Plank that Falco!

 

[Shadow 111]

I agree, falco is harder than diddy for me.... i have beaten NL and ADHD multiple times.. but i can't beat local falcos LOL

 

[Master Raven]

Alternatively you can ban FD and play really campy on the other levels as long as you're on platforms

I don't know if Falco's that difficult of a matchup for MK. I'm skeptical of it being close. (not saying I outright don't believe it, I mean truly skeptical in the sense that I'm unsure.) I need firsthand evidence and good experience in the matchup before I can conclude anything.

I do agree though that Snake, Wario and Diddy are probably three of MK's hardest matchups.

 

[Crizthakidd]

well yea falco playing gay which they all do would make it very hard for mk. but all u gota do is learn his little tricks. the char has too many gimicks he rellys on. dont get combo'ed by lazers into stuff like grabs and upsmash. diddy on the other hand gets free smashes, grabs that do a lot of % and a good recovery while falco offstage is a free 15% then again falco can just spam lasers, illusion, camp til 120 then upsmash XD they really are gay and hard but w.e were MK!

the battles against a snake who wont die is a diff story tho -_-

 

[OverLade]

I agree, falco is harder than diddy for me.... i have beaten NL and ADHD multiple times.. but i can't beat local falcos LOL

Yeah I can usually just outpressure Diddy players and keep them away from their bananas. Falco on the other hand ALWAYS has lasers. Bananas game is how to be consistent with Diddy, and shutting that down is how to win.

And playing on platforms doesn't even work as well as you might think. On BF falco will simply camp under the opposite platform and the lasers will still hit you. Plus falco jumps so fast he can Nair/Bair you if you try Dair camping. I personally think Falco is harder than Diddy.

Following Him and Diddy are probably Pikachu, DK, and Olimar. You can gay Marth and Dedede pretty hard, otherwise they'd be next.

edit:Crizthakid: Falco is harder than Diddy becasue Aggro helps you vs. Diddy but hurts you against Falco. You have to play very patient and gay against Falco while against Diddy it doens't get frustrating until two bananas are out.

 

[Shadow 111]

Yeah I can usually just outpressure Diddy players and keep them away from their bananas. Falco on the other hand ALWAYS has lasers. Bananas game is how to be consistent with Diddy, and shutting that down is how to win.

And playing on platforms doesn't even work as well as you might think. On BF falco will simply camp under the opposite platform and the lasers will still hit you. Plus falco jumps so fast he can Nair/Bair you if you try Dair camping. I personally think Falco is harder than Diddy.

Following Him and Diddy are probably Pikachu, DK, and Olimar. You can gay Marth and Dedede pretty hard, otherwise they'd be next.

edit:Crizthakid: Falco is harder than Diddy becasue Aggro helps you vs. Diddy but hurts you against Falco. You have to play very patient and gay against Falco while against Diddy it doens't get frustrating until two bananas are out.

I completely agree with this .
Me i'm switching to kirby for falco. i got waaayyy too frustrated with the matchup.

 

[OverLade]

I completely agree with this .
Me i'm switching to kirby for falco. i got waaayyy too frustrated with the matchup.

I'm probably going to go Marth, as I had a very close match with Kismet using him which I only lost because Lylats edge killed me on my melee style gimp lol.

Of course I want to learn the matchup with MK as well, but I love using Marth anyway.

And yeah it's the frustration that kills you. When a matchup is difficult to the point of not being fun that's when you might want to CP lol.

 

[CO18]

Ohhh noez matchups where we dont have large advantages??????

MUST CP!

lol jk but i heard i beat that kismet guy with ddd which is largely in falcos favor.

Be a man halberd lol ur mk is actually pretty kewl <3

 

[Shadow 111]

I'm probably going to go Marth, as I had a very close match with Kismet using him which I only lost because Lylats edge killed me on my melee style gimp lol.

Of course I want to learn the matchup with MK as well, but I love using Marth anyway.

And yeah it's the frustration that kills you. When a matchup is difficult to the point of not being fun that's when you might want to CP lol.

exactly... i am a very aggressive player and i can't stand being projectile camped really lol. last tourney i threw my controller and quit during third game when i was down 2 sotcks to a falco lol. i am not the kind of player that would ever really do something like that either.... what a stupid character

 

[OverLade]

Ohhh noez matchups where we dont have large advantages??????

MUST CP!

lol jk but i heard i beat that kismet guy with ddd

We can't all be godly and have unlimited matchup experience against every character. >=P

Btw are there vids or anything cuz I'd need to see to believe that ish.

 

[CO18]

We can't all be godly and have unlimited matchup experience against every character. >=P

Btw are there vids or anything cuz I'd need to see to believe that ish.

I have wifi exp vs your falco and thats the only legit exp ive had. Ive had a few vs other falcos which were mainly laggy and the other falcos not being good at all. Then I dont have any offline exp vs falco. I dunno I find matchup exp being overrated some lol I just know what falco can do because its not like he has so many incredible tricks or something. He has lasers, illusion, and grabs so I just do my best to avoid it and get close to him to take advantage of what my character does best lol. Obviously you can get better at matchups practicing them but I just think its overrated sometimes unless its some character that basically noone uses or you use yourself such as in the case with Reflex's PT


uhh guy that recorded the vids got camera jacked or something lol.
You couldve hear Dogy's trash talk lol

 

[OverLade]

exactly... i am a very aggressive player and i can't stand being projectile camped really lol. last tourney i threw my controller and quit during third game when i was down 2 sotcks to a falco lol. i am not the kind of player that would ever really do something like that either.... what a stupid character

I'm extremely patient but fighting Kismet was still hella frustraing.
Im considering banning BF and not FD.....the under platform camping is unbearable. I think its mostly Kismet as a player though, because when I CPed frigate against him I barely won, but ***** FLs best Falco there.

Hes too good.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

I think that MKs range and speed gives him a slight advantage, but it's countered by how hard it is to kill Wario. I'd say it's MK either Second or Third worst matchup, under Snake, close to Falco.