[VIC] 3 Stock'd ~ Melbourne 2010 ~ Nope

[swordsaint]

Falco pyew pyew pings on every stage kthx.

 

[Nixernator]

generally its only mks and warios that time people out... and it's actually probably hardest for them to do this on fd, now that i think about it.

Fair point I guess, I'm talking more about chars with bad mobility being made nonviable by being stalled out.

basically fd is more neutral than ps1 and lylat because it favours/inhibits certain players to a much less extent than fd does.

Not really, Lylate and PS1 are fair for both chars, whereas FD will favour just one char more than the other. Also I believe the opposite that FD favours and inhibits certain players far more than either.

take an mk to lylat. he can fly under the stage, uair through a decent portion of the stage, and laugh when sweetspotters are struggling to recover at the ledge. not to mention that anyone who has difficultly autocancelling (characters, not players) simply have to live without some aerials because of the tilt.

A mk can fly under the stage on FD, BF and SV. And can Uair through the floor on any stage with a ledge (drop down Uair) for a similar effect. The FD ledges are also similar, as a fox and bowser user I can tell you about the stupid times of fire foxing straight into the bottom of the ledge and not sweetspotting and then. Well. Goodbye stock.

What chars are heavily affected by the lack of autocancelling on Lylat, off the top of my head only Ganon and Falcon are affected adversely to a large enough degree to matter.

and ps1... it has walls. walls mean infinites and tilt locks. walls mean stupid techs and stories of survival. it also splits the stage in two at points, making approaching impossible and STALLING FOR TIME MORE VIABLE THAN EVER.

FD's lack of platforms leads to stupid camping games, impossible to avoid infinites and CG's and the like. At least the walls have platforms and a whole stage where you can fight and avoid these stupid techs. Can you approach Diddy kong on FD with his bananas out? Nope same problem. Or an air camping MK? Same problem mate, except its for the whole stage not just parts.

fd has no platforms, and favours certain characters. ok. but im not gonna get sharked, timed out, miss the ledge, infinited/locked against a wall or live forever by teching on it.

You can still get timed out, miss the ledge and get infinited on FD. Also teching a wall is a skill not a lucky occurrences. Make the most of your stage and it gives the same advantage to both players.

and just for the record, at least in the snake mu, d3 players prefer bf. it makes getting the kill easier.

Yes great one MU, whereas in most other MU's a D3 would choose FD 99 times out of 100.

 

[Jei Jei]

I thought a neutral stage was a stage with minimal affect on game play. Not which stage affects individual characters....isn't that where tiers come in?

 

[Attila_]

@nix: you're not responding to my points, just talking over them. this is the reason why i didnt give them initially. and for the most part, you seemingly ignore what i say, which is equally frustrating, and gives me further reason not to continue this argument.

and for the record, i used d3 vs snake as an example because i know the mu very well. but at the same time, i could safely say that d3 has better stage option against most of the cast, but dont know the facts, cause i dont main d3. important to note that either do you.

 

[Dekar289]

I thought a neutral stage was a stage with minimal affect on game play. Not which stage affects individual characters....isn't that where tiers come in?

i agree with this intelligent handsome man

 

[Jei Jei]

I am pretty intelligent, handsome and man.

 

[luke_atyeo]

lol brinstar is as bad as rc and japes, fd isnt good for ics, are you ****ing kidding me, this game isnt only about 3 matchups you know

 

[Attila_]

only characters ics prefer on fd would be marth, falco, fox and shiek. everyone else is preferred on bf. this is coming from someone who has actually used them for some time...

 

[M]

only characters ics prefer on fd would be marth, falco, fox and shiek. everyone else is preferred on bf. this is coming from someone who has actually used them for some time...

Regardless, in a three stage system banning Smashville gives them a great stage to play a majority of the cast.

 

[Attila_]

Regardless, in a three stage system banning Smashville gives them a great stage to play a majority of the cast.

if non-neutral stages were starter, they wouldnt be high tier. change the neutrals and you change the tier list.

 

[C~Dog]

Check out the new side tourney for next 3 Stock'd: Headband Wars.

It will run over the duration of the day, alongside Singles and Doubles.

 

[abhishekh]

green greens

 

[Vermy]

stfu Abhi. God, I swear.


self restraint Vermy, you've had a good day, don't let this ruin it...

 

[luke_atyeo]

nah its a fair call

 

[Shaya]

Game started off with A LOT more starters.
People were extremely counter happy because of the presumption that the starter was random. This is not the case any more... anywhere... right?
Remember, its a list of STARTERS not NEUTRALS

The goal of starter stages is to allow the most NEUTRAL (i.e. close to even) match up to occur between two characters. So in other words, considering match ups is INCREDIBLY important in ensuring there is a balanced starter list and that individual characters are not being skewed.

Final Destination is a silly appendage to a starter list of 3 or 5 stages. Once the starter list reaches 7, FD is an obvious choice.

-

Oh, and considering Ankoku said so publicly.

Starters
BF
SV
LC
ps1
YI

This is actually our five stage list recommendation : D : D (we have three, five, seven, and nine stage variants)

 

[Attila_]

but this list in itself screws over a number of high tier characters (ics, falco, diddy, oli) while favouring others quite significantly by giving them more options than they need (MK, WARIO, marth, pika). the tier list is built in reference to the current state of smash, and this includes (to my knowledge) having neutral stages as starters. the tier list would change with this stage list.

 

[Toby.]

It doesn't screw over diddy kong :S

All it does take away the ludicrous advantage of having both SV and FD, which essentially allows his first neutral to be a counterpick.

Unless I'm missing something here...?

 

[Leisha]

Wow an epic site glitch for me, I cant see any avatars o.O lol

 

[Toby.]

Neither can I :O

I must say the black looks good on us though.

 

[Attila_]

It doesn't screw over diddy kong :S

All it does take away the ludicrous advantage of having both SV and FD, which essentially allows his first neutral to be a counterpick.

Unless I'm missing something here...?

all im saying is that tier and ranking lists take this into account. with neutral stages as starters. if you change the starters, the tier list will also change. and give more advantages to mk O_o

 

[Toby.]

I don't really have a problem with tier lists changing

The main advantage MK is getting is that characters like falco, d3 and diddy dont get wtfrape their first match...I'm at the point where I've accepted that MK will always have the advantage, which leaves me more concerned about the rest of the cast who have to deal with pew pew and banarama in a stage list stacked to support that.

 

[Attila_]

I don't really have a problem with tier lists changing

The main advantage MK is getting is that characters like falco, d3 and diddy dont get wtfrape their first match...I'm at the point where I've accepted that MK will always have the advantage, which leaves me more concerned about the rest of the cast who have to deal with pew pew and banarama in a stage list stacked to support that.

but they can only stand up to mk on those stages... take them away and no one can O_o

and the rest of the list doesnt really exist anymore lol. sad but its becoming more and more true.

also, everyone bans fd against diddy. which means he might get sv as a neutral (which is also his best cp most of the time). if he wins on it, then he cant cp it, leaving him with lesser options. in this sense, i dont really think its too bad. remembering that most of the cast is unusable, anyway.

 

[Toby.]

The advantage diddy gets from starting with a counterpick far outweighs not being able to CP it later imo. Winning the first match is crucial.

But yes if you are talking about this game only in reference to the top 5 characters, then I can understand why you would want to keep FD.

 

[tibs7]

FD is a cp stage for diddy, but saying that sv is cp as in gives a decent adv. for diddy is stupid.
sure he does well there, but its quite good for other chars aswell.....so saying diddy gets 2 cp's is kinda silly imo.
banning fd will allow the other player to strike sv and now we have to deal with platforms everywhere so yeah this makes diddy a worse char.

 

[Toby.]

Well obviously when you take away a large advantage it will make him worse.

SV may be good for other characters, but the boost diddy gains from it is giant and obvious. And the bit about them being able to ban SV is the entire point.

You're basically saying that people shouldn't be able to ban SV because it will make it harder for you lol. If they have to choose between SV and FD then it's the opposite: they have no choice but to get banana *****, despite the stage striking system.

It's pretty lols really.

 

[tibs7]

no no no, you see.
sv isnt as **** as you make it sound. i dont know bout you but i play diddy and i may have a little bit more exp. in this area.
but i guess thats your opinion eyyyyyyy

edit: when you say 'giant' adv. thats really only against the lower tier chars that nobody uses. but otherwise i have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Toby.]

Lol somebody's being a smart arse

Last time I saw ADHD talking about stages his words were "we take them to smashville and **** the **** out of them". Pretty sure he was talking about his opponent being MK.

I hear he mains diddy kong too

This entire argument depends on whether you are using 5 neutrals or 3, btw.

I still <3 you tibs.

edit: and im not saying diddy have a giant advantage on mk.

 

[Leisha]

I'd really just prefer 3 neutrals. Don't really wanna go to PS1 and sit there doing nothing for 3 minutes of the match due to stage transformations >< I cant remember the 5 starters though but im assuming PS1 is in there

Oh wells brawl is a broken game ;P I <3 luigi lots now haha

 

[tibs7]

haha toby dw i havent lost any love for you either

umm but seriously sv isnt as good as you say or other people.
and if you wathced adhd last time, he got 3-0'ed against shadow and cp'ed him to sv twice :O
but that doesnt mean much right? ehehe

 

[Toby.]

ADHD pretty much always counterpicks people to SV for a reason.

It's not because the stage is sort of alright

Although I do feel sorry for diddy players who have 5 neutrals and have to play a best of 5 GF. Against the top tier you're in a pretty bad position, since you have to play somewhere like battlefield or YI to begin with, then you only really have SV because they banned FD. Poor diddy. Good thing he *****

Although against anyone other than the top 4 starting on battlefield or YI aint so bad.

 

[tibs7]

correct, it doesnt mean its sort of alright, just means what i said before. other chars do well on it also, sooo this giant adv. isnt so giant after allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

ughhh to tired to post after this sooo toby just say tibs i wubz you and i agree =) haha.

edit: will this be considered spam? coz it was pretty stupid lol

 

[Toby.]

tibs i wubz you and i agree =)

 

[Attila_]

diddy should beat anyone on sv. but fd is always banned. so that means he autowins one match of the set, but can very lose the other two (or four).

kind of a troll, but kinda true, too.

 

[swordsaint]

Smashville has a platform. Learn to use it.
Smashville is smaller than a lot of stages too (in terms of the actual foothold), learn to use it.

Kind of a troll, but kinda true, too.

 

[Shaya]

Diddy still gets battlefield... which is a perfectly god **** fine stage for him.
So is smashville.
SO IS PICTOCHAT.
SO IS POKEMON STADIUM.

A lot of diddys rise could pertain to the hype ADHD brings. And guess what, ADHD never gets FD or Smashville as his starter stage. NEVER.

Diddy is still perfectly viable and probably 3rd best in the game with those 5 starters I listed.
Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium and Smashville are still GREAT stages for him.

All I see is As a diddy main, I would be at more of a disadvantage whilst still being a top tier character. I get to see the opinions of more than just one Diddy Kong main Tibs.

The starter list that has come about as FD, BF, SV was never BBR approved or had much thought into it in terms of balance. Those three stages as the starters BREAK what the DEFINITION OF A STARTER LIST IS. Im sorry to you both, but you are arguing that is unfair that a starter list actually follows the DEFINITION OF A STARTER LIST so Diddy/ICs has an easier time.

 

[luke_atyeo]

but they can only stand up to mk on those stages... take them away and no one can O_o

*coughcoughsnakecough*

toby beats the combined might of the baranay brothers (is that how you spell it?)
such arguments hold no interest for me since I'm snake and I'm win on every level, and the ones I'm not win on have conveniently been banned

needs more snake and less falco Attila, if you dont use snake who are my brothers in arms?

 

[Toby.]

THAT JUST HAPPENED

caps

Luke you better get some lozenges for that cough.

 

[Technodeath]

needs more snake and less falco Attila, if you dont use snake who are my brothers in arms?

do i count as a brother if i use Luigi and second Snake?

for i am a man.

 

[tibs7]

All I see is As a diddy main, I would be at more of a disadvantage whilst still being a top tier character. I get to see the opinions of more than just one Diddy Kong main Tibs.

this is boring coz you've pretty said the exact same thing before to me

but umm yeah no fd means no chance of sv which = more chance of diddy losing game 1 therefore losing the set </3

 

[Leisha]

Yaaaaay, fixed my avatar ^-^. If you wanna fix your avatar guys, just re-upload it in the User CP xD

Also I still needs a teammate for next saturday, for epic lulz