VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Teczer0]

lol, no one ever cheers for me and connor either, the life of a peach main/double peach :/

But... I was like...

Fox for almost the entire doubles tourney D=

 

[ConnorTheKid]

rule of thumb: no one ever cheers for a Peach unless it's Armada


another rule of thumb: SoCal noobs suck because they'd rather play friendlies than watch grand/losers/winners finals of anything

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

rule of thumb: no one ever cheers for a Peach unless it's Armada


another rule of thumb: SoCal noobs suck because they'd rather play friendlies than watch grand/losers/winners finals of anything

That makes me so sad...


Also, I'm back. I took a small break.
School ***** D;

 

[MacD]

where in cali does she live vanz?

gotta see where you're gonna end up so i can laugh/be happy/be jealous of you

 

[Cia]

^ Not really sure, but her husband is an Ex Lakers Player.. So where ever she lives, it's nice. She was actually on Basketball Wives recently. pretty kwl =)

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

^ Not really sure, but her husband is an Ex Lakers Player.. So where ever she lives, it's nice. She was actually on Basketball Wives recently. pretty kwl =)

I'm kinda jealous of everything in that statement.

Except for being on Basketball Wives.
TV appearances are still pretty legit though.

 

[ZoSo]

If you're just spacing around and dropping fairs, as long as you fastfall and begin the grab remotely quick, it's guaranteed.

It's only guaranteed in the sense that you will grab them first if you did it correctly and they tried to shieldgrab.

 

[VA]

jab doesn't provide shield stun and shouldn't be treated as if it does so. It's just to stuff their grab.
anything dsmash is safe vs marth because it stabs like every time. Just stay behind his shield and he's helpless.

Shield tilting will protect them from the dsmash but sometimes floaty characters (like the ones you expect dsmash to shield stab on) will benefit more from getting the 1 hit of the dsmash than having a nickel-sized shield. If they tilt and you don't stab, they probably have no shield left, which should be your cue to get in the air and start fairing like the psycho ***** you are until you hit a shield.

shield recovers pretty fast, if you're going to react to their small shield by FC fairing mindlessly (as is something they may expect) you'll probably get punished...

also if they shield your dsmash successfully they can punish you :/

you can't just fc far > grab and expect it work, it's heavily dependent on your opponents response.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

whoops, dave, looks like it's just me being wrong about things again

VA that was (supposed to be) a bit of humor, usually I think the appropriate way to act after a fully connected dsmash to their shield is float and drop fairs and hope they shield, and if they do, dsmash.

 

[ZoSo]

you can't just fc far > grab and expect it work

Sure you can.

it's heavily dependent on your opponents response.

Everything always is, so by that logic nothing "works."

 

[LumpyCPU...]

oh gawd, you guys... lol

say ii fc fair and it hits low on their shield. then go for a grab very quickly.
to avoid the grab, can they...
A) buffer a roll or spotdodge
B) shield grab
C) shine oos or samus upB oos

i'm hearing conflicting answers here. i know it works on the people who don't know it's coming.

 

[john!]

wthey can't grab unless you mess up, since you have 4 frames of advantage. but i think people know not to try this.

if they buffer a spotdodge or roll, then usually you have to be frame perfect, which is very difficult.

shine oos and up b oos take how long exactly...?

dsmash on the other hand lasts 18 frames, 2 with hitboxes and 2 without for 5 times, minus the 2 without at the end. so they can't roll or spotdodge (with the exception of a few characters with long spotdodges) without being hit. of those characters with long spotdodges, only falcon, zelda, and ganon end their dodge barely before you end your dsmash, and even then they have to time it perfectly.

someone get magus in here or something to make sure i'm correct.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

falco's perfect shine oos would take 7 frames minimum, iirc, 6 to jump and shine on the 7th. samus' up b oos is 4 frames? correct me if I'm wrong

 

[ZoSo]

oh gawd, you guys... lol

say ii fc fair and it hits low on their shield. then go for a grab very quickly.
to avoid the grab, can they...
A) buffer a roll or spotdodge

In Super Theory Brothers, sometimes. In practical application, yes.

B) shield grab

No.

C) shine oos or samus upB oos

[theorybros]Fox can shine, Falco can't, Samus and Bowser can avoid the grab with up-B invincibility, G&W can up-B out of sheild cause he's BROOOOOOOKEN.[/theorybros]

i'm hearing conflicting answers here. i know it works on the people who don't know it's coming.

You'll win if they tried to shield grab or if they anticipated a jab and waited for it, which is common.

wthey can't grab unless you mess up, since you have 4 frames of advantage. but i think people know not to try this.

You'd be surprised.

if they buffer a spotdodge or roll, then usually you have to be frame perfect, which is very difficult.

If they spot dodge, they will avoid your grab (no matter what) and have a small amount of frame advantage depending on how fast their spot dodge is.

falco's perfect shine oos would take 7 frames minimum, iirc, 6 to jump and shine on the 7th. samus' up b oos is 4 frames? correct me if I'm wrong

Falco's JC shine takes 6 frames. Samus's up-B doesn't hit until frame 4, but is invincible frame 1, which is why it's good out of shield.

I'm not saying fair > grab is unbeatable or that everybody should always do it or anything like that. Like anything else, there are ways around it. That doesn't mean it's bad or that people shouldn't do it. It's just another (mostly) safe option.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i know i'm asking a lot. thanks for all the input and help guys.

so fair grab and fair dsmash make for great mix ups. heh heh heh

i tend to fcbair to dsmash on peoples shields. i never get punished (except after the dsmash if they shielded the whole thing) but i don't exactly play against tournament winners.
can bair to dsmash be shield grabbed?

i play fox and peach and i'm trying to stay into peach instead of convincing myself that fox is better in all aspects. (which he is... lol)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fair --> wait is underused mixup.

If you can make them roll in fear of D-smash/grab you get a free dash attack.

 

[Cia]

Fair --> wait is underused mixup.

If you can make them roll in fear of D-smash/grab you get a free dash attack.

really? I use this all the time. Now I feel.. contemporary.. lol

actually, I used it to clinch this match =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6gIc6-gmC4

 

[LumpyCPU...]

really? I use this all the time. Now I feel.. contemporary.. lol

actually, I used it to clinch this match =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6gIc6-gmC4

that was like... the perfect example. haha

i'm afraid falcos as peach... especially there.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

bair dsmash is one of those things that you can count on to work most of the time but you need to do some other things or you will get punished. Also, it ***** doc.
so if you're looking at fair on shield, you could dsmash if you think they're gonna sidestep, and grab if you think they're gonna try to act oos / shieldgrab. Accurate?

 

[MacD]

OMG I TOTALLY FORGOT TO TELL YOU GUYS ABOUT UAIR AND IT'S GIMPING ABLITY

basically i was on yoshi's and i floated under the ledge against a falco, instead of upbing i did an uair and the falco fell down to try and shine me but got hit by uair at 0% and it gimped him

connor whitnessed the magic

 

[ConnorTheKid]

uair is Peach's shine

 

[The Irish Mafia]

**** the lakers

 

[ZoSo]

can bair to dsmash be shield grabbed?

Anything "can" be shieldgrabbed, but if you do it perfectly it's +2 on block, iirc. In practical application it's probably closer to neutral or -1 or something like that. So you definitely have time to jab, roll, dsmash, dash away, whatever.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i don't know what you mean by +2 on block... or your other use of numbers in that post.

maybe i'm tired, but prolly more likely i just don't know something.

 

[VA]

Everything always is, so by that logic nothing "works."

This is not true, combos where your opponent is in stun and unable to do anything after DI "work". Things where if they react/read your choice correctly and you do it with out thinking it through properly do not "work".

If you fair > grabbed without thinking about anything that happened prior to your fair grab in the match I know a lot of players that wouldn't attempt the shield grab, but I also know a lot of players who would. You gotta know what "works" and when xD

 

[BladeWise]

I managed to find game 2 of the TP4 Winner's set that I won against SilentSpectre, if anyone's interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bprax53B2E0

Please ignore the repetitive voice saying "free demo". I couldn't find any other good programs to edit VLC files.

SS ***** me pretty bad in the LF set, unfortunately.

 

[ZoSo]

If you fair > grabbed without thinking about anything that happened prior to your fair grab in the match I know a lot of players that wouldn't attempt the shield grab, but I also know a lot of players who would. You gotta know what "works" and when xD

I agree.

 

[Cia]

I managed to find game 2 of the TP4 Winner's set that I won against SilentSpectre, if anyone's interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bprax53B2E0

Please ignore the repetitive voice saying "free demo". I couldn't find any other good programs to edit VLC files.

SS ***** me pretty bad in the LF set, unfortunately.

nice finish. I've always liked your Peach

"Furii demo!"

haha

 

[g-regulate]

FacT: Vanz beat my scrubby out of practice falcon with sheik, after failing miserably with peach.

next time there will be pain


and then we will jiggs ditto in b+!!

 

[TheGeneral]

@ Bladewise - great matches. I love watching aggressive peach's. Also, nice recoveries on ys. Way to not be predictable.

@g-reg - how far are you from Roanoke, VA? That's where I live during the summer. I definitely want to play more of Virginia after playing tope last weekend. I didn't realize how good our state is.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

next time there will be pain

i pictured your avatar saying this.

 

[Cia]

FacT: Vanz beat my scrubby out of practice falcon with sheik, after failing miserably with peach.

next time there will be pain


and then we will jiggs ditto in b+!!

FacT: this was in like.. 2009 at tournament where i played atrociously. (ask plairnkk, we teamed) that.. and falcon has always been my worst match up. I've even come close to losing to thumbs. (no offense) So, I hope you didn't feel special having beaten my peach I'd trash you now anyway.

also, i quit b+ jiggs @pound and i haven't played b+ at all since DSO. get with the times man

 

[MacD]

so i watched you vs chops vanz, the tourney set from no johns

i noticed some upsmashes

but did that whole set i was shouting to chops to DI the chain grab, i mean at least then you might mess up

he finally did it last stock last match, and then you pull out some jank upthrow > roll to his DI > tech chase... that is some BS right there

 

[Rosedemon]

Its like a smarter version of the Jfox combo!

 

[crismas]

^ LMAO at the two posts above

 

[ChivalRuse]

Up to what percent on average can the strong hit of Peach's dash attack be CC'ed?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

40ish, character dependant

 

[Cia]

and then you pull out some jank upthrow > roll to his DI > tech chase... that is some BS right there

Its like a smarter version of the Jfox combo!

why is everyone making fun of my tech chases today? they are so legit, words can describe how legit they are. that's how legit they are.. .. legit

*looks for my thesaurus*

also, i love when ppl try and cc my dash attacks and they just end up grounded. they just end up getting death chased.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Vanz if you already read their mind and know where they're going, you should get creative and D-tilt **** combo lolololol

That free demo thing is pissing me off btw

 

[ChivalRuse]

40ish, character dependant

Can anyone else confirm this?

also, i love when ppl try and cc my dash attacks and they just end up grounded. they just end up getting death chased.

I already know dash attack *****, but I'd like concrete numbers, if possible.