VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[GSUB]

it was upsmash! i remember!!! hahah


hmm... just keep going up on the control stick then =) haha
you'll get ittttt

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hey peach boards i have a frame question


after a fc nair/bair thats ff'd, how fast does Dsmash come out (liek total frames including all that bull****)

Can you get CC usmashed/shine by fox at lower percentages if you hit them with those?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

rosedemon I'm talking about doing it at like 100% on marth oos. That's the tech skill i want.

 

[Teczer0]

hey peach boards i have a frame question


after a fc nair/bair thats ff'd, how fast does Dsmash come out (liek total frames including all that bull****)

Can you get CC usmashed/shine by fox at lower percentages if you hit them with those?

It would take peach 4 frames + the dsmash startup lag.

CC upsmash takes 7 frames so most likely the answer is yes. Dsmash would have to start at like 4 frames minimum (like including human error and all) to have a chance of canceling. I don't think Dsmash has the startup lag of less than a grab... though I could be wrong *shrugs*

You also have to remember that you can start the upsmash as soon as the hitbox of the bair/nair connects with you. So you may have even more time.

 

[john!]

Dsmash comes out on frame 5.

So you're saying the INSTANT Fox gets hit with an FC nair/fair/bair, there's NO hitstun AT ALL and he can usmash immediately?

 

[Dynamism?]

Why don't people just Fair > grab more? Instead of Fair > jab
Most people shield panic right away anyway, and there's no lag on aerials so grabbing is a given. Jab > grab works but aerial grab can't you straight up grab through the shieldstun on a FC Fair?
I donno, does it work?
:\

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I'm working on fair grabbing more, I just usually play stupid
also doing the peach pillar and looking like XIF is really fun

 

[Teczer0]

Dsmash comes out on frame 5.

So you're saying the INSTANT Fox gets hit with an FC nair/fair/bair, there's NO hitstun AT ALL and he can usmash immediately?

Uhhh not 100% positive, but it doesn't FEEL like there is any hitstun if you CC.

I hit it quite often so *shrugs*

People do use FC Fair grab though... its a mixup kinda thing its too either keep your opponent guessing or to punish them thinking they can stay in their shield and stay safe.

 

[MacD]

hey vanz i'm curious, who did you use against darc? if peach how did it go. i remember him telling me it's one of his least favorite match ups then as the pool gods would have it we ended up in the same pool lol

well actually did you use peach against any of those top 5 or are there any vids? also who does dazwa use, sheik?

also are you a puff main now? i saw your post about the puff crew, you forgot raistlin or however you spell it

 

[Rosedemon]

Fair --> Grab is also something I wanna work on doing more.

I remember so many times me, mccain, and xelic commenting on how Armada coulda got so many grabs in on Amsah, if he just Fair --> grabbed.

I also remember Connor utilizing it pretty well in our hand-off matchs against darrel.

 

[MacD]

i have that same problem, half the reason i lost to kira/sheiks is cause i do what armada did, i always jabbed or dsmashed his shield

i need to remember you can grab, jump and do another fair, run away, etc

 

[darkatma]

Fair --> Grab is also something I wanna work on doing more.

I remember so many times me, mccain, and xelic commenting on how Armada coulda got so many grabs in on Amsah, if he just Fair --> grabbed.

I also remember Connor utilizing it pretty well in our hand-off matchs against darrel.

Wow I know almost everyone in this thread

but Alan if you want to fair grab, oftentimes if you use z you'll get a jab if you dont time it perfectly right.

So what I would do (it works, but I always forget to use it in matches) is fc fair - jc grab. It prevents jab from happening and always gives you the grab.


and the amount of tech skill that I have still didn't prevent me from getting ***** by Vanz at SMYM11 =[

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Vanz went Y. Link vs Darc. 'Nuff said.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

I also remember Connor utilizing it pretty well in our hand-off matchs against darrel.

LOL those matches were so fun. I was hoping we could've done it at R3. you, me, McCain, and Darkatma switching off each stock. you'd get a stitchface, then I'd lose it afterwards

 

[Rosedemon]

Horrible with stitchfaces, lmao.

 

[Cia]

hey vanz i'm curious, who did you use against darc? if peach how did it go. i remember him telling me it's one of his least favorite match ups then as the pool gods would have it we ended up in the same pool lol

well actually did you use peach against any of those top 5 or are there any vids? also who does dazwa use, sheik?

also are you a puff main now? i saw your post about the puff crew, you forgot raistlin or however you spell it

I used a slew of characters against Darc haha. Peach didn't work out too well which makes me sad because I always thought i was good against Puff. I had the most success with Young Link, but that only got me so far. I also used Luigi, Falco, Sheik, and Ice Climbers. There are vids, but I'll most likely be uploading those tmr night because I'm exhausted right now. Dazwa uses Sheik, and no, I'm not a Puff main. Truth be told, I don't think I have a main. And I did forget Raistlin! 5 PUFFS!!

 

[MacD]

haha wow... just wow at that slew of characters

well at the least i'm sure i'll get a good laugh out of your young link winning some matches

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I heard you supercombo'd Th0rn. I wish I saw it ):

 

[darkatma]

LOL those matches were so fun. I was hoping we could've done it at R3. you, me, McCain, and Darkatma switching off each stock. you'd get a stitchface, then I'd lose it afterwards

LOL dude that sounds so fun
next time I'm home (summer)


also @ my earlier comment about Fc fair to jc grabs: I think just shield grabbing does the same thing. Except you can't move forward

 

[_Keno_]

Anyone have some advice on Dr. Mario? The front page just says "bair more."
In particular, what moves are best for blocking pills (ground and air). And how to avoid fair, what moves clank w/ his fair.
Dogysam plays a nasty Doc.

 

[Teczer0]

Peach's bair is really effective against doc. Probably a reason for the OP saying so. You can do a ton of things vs docs pills but bair/nair/shield are probably the best options.

Don't really challenge the fair, at least I don't. Its has a deceptively large hitbox and trading hits is definitely not worth it.

Just close the gap before attacking doc and watch out for the lunging fairs. That should probably help you not get hit with random/spaced fairs.

PS. Vanz I'm so jealous people read your OP page

 

[MacD]

you can go watch me lose to shroomed if you like

upsmash and up b beats his dair, otherwise don't try and hit him cause you'll lose

 

[darkatma]

man i remember when shroomed sucked and P gave me hella **** for losing to him at a quakfest
and then P lost a 65 buck MM to him.

 

[bladeofapollo]

and then P lost a 65 buck MM to him.

That's a really arbitrary number

 

[MacD]

no it's not

EDIT: god dam my slow internet

 

[ZoSo]

Why don't people just Fair > grab more? Instead of Fair > jab
Most people shield panic right away anyway, and there's no lag on aerials so grabbing is a given. Jab > grab works but aerial grab can't you straight up grab through the shieldstun on a FC Fair?
I donno, does it work?
:\

If you fair on the last airborne frame and float cancel, it leaves you at +4. They can roll or sidestep but not much else. It's one of the few things in Melee that gives significant frame advantage against shields, I don't know why Peaches don't abuse it more.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

man i remember when shroomed sucked and P gave me hella **** for losing to him at a quakfest
and then P lost a 65 buck MM to him.

you got it the other way around bruh. P was just talking **** on the boards and they money matched for $65 at WCSL. Then they did a rematch for like $10 at Quakfest with like no one watching. P ended up winning and that was that.

 

[blackfox51]

Can anyone tell me why Mute City is banned now? I'm trying to argue why it shouldn't be allowed in the tournament we're having next month.
I'm all for ****** spacies on MC, but in all fairness, I'd like to know why it's not on the MBR stage list.

And if you're up for it, why is Green Greens so bad for Peach (besides the obvious drill>shine>upsmash killing earlier haha)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Chair throwing at national tournaments was a big factor. joking

I don't remember the whole thing but a lot of it pertained to edge game. Lack of edges significantly alters gameplay for a lot of characters in terms of edgeguarding and recovery. I think somebody might have noted that respawning on the level can be mad gay because of the invincibility. Frail characters don't have many options against beefy damage output (say, Falcon vs Sheik) because when Sheik respawns with invulnerability, there aren't exactly a lot of good places for Falcon to go to wait out her invincibility. Lack of platforms, edges, and even space at times. The cars can be mad gay too and game-breaking.

The fact that Puff and Peach are fairly OP on the level was also a large factor.

 

[blackfox51]

Thanks, that really helps
Can anyone else tell me why the stage becomes broken when you're playing as Peach?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because other characters need ledges to recover whereas she doesn't? And other characters can't stall out the no-road zone whereas she can? And because she's largely immune to the cars because she can fly?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

infinite ledgeguards for parts of the stage, extensive chaingrabs, combos off the hazards into peaches power moves, extensive recovery room that she benefits from, use of the hazards for vertical recovery, oscillating amounts of camping space, hazards hitting peach usually only once while spacies get hit multiple times

the list goes on

 

[Dynamism?]

If you fair on the last airborne frame and float cancel, it leaves you at +4. They can roll or sidestep but not much else. It's one of the few things in Melee that gives significant frame advantage against shields, I don't know why Peaches don't abuse it more.

Thought so. Thanks for confirming. :\

Peaches are too lazy and stubborn to change apparently! >:[

 

[darkatma]

you got it the other way around bruh. P was just talking **** on the boards and they money matched for $65 at WCSL. Then they did a rematch for like $10 at Quakfest with like no one watching. P ended up winning and that was that.

no no I lost to shroomed at a quakfest before he started getting known
then P ****talked about how i lost to a doc.

then shroomed was like oh yeah? MM
and then what you said holds true (65$ MM at WCSL, 10$ MM at next quakfest)


and it's not that peaches are too lazy and stubborn. It's just that fairing on your last airborne frame is difficult to do. You have to be groundfloating (or near groundfloating), and even then you have to be fastfalling for you to get the advantage. And going from a groundfloat to a fastfall requires some precise tech skill

also mute city and gayneria are still on in the midwest at SMYMs

 

[Dynamism?]

So instead of Fairing > Grab

People go Fair > Jab > Grab

Because it's easier???

LAAAAME johns there.

Even without frame advantage, jab doesn't give you frame advantage and you're just adding an extra step and lettng them know what's up.

LAZY AND STUBBORN >:[

 

[The Irish Mafia]

most people can't get out of fair grab. I haven't seen anyone see it coming to the point where they know to buffer a spotdodge or something to avoid it. It still works lol

 

[ZoSo]

I'm not saying people should do it every time or anything, but I feel like a lot of players (not just Peach players) don't understand that aerial > grab is a viable mixup against shields.

 

[KirbyKaze]

@ darkatma: You don't need to be perfect with it to have it work, though. You just need to have frame advantage.

 

[darkatma]

@ darkatma: You don't need to be perfect with it to have it work, though. You just need to have frame advantage.

yeah i know
true frame advantage only comes from doing fair so that it hits their shield low enough though.
I suppose a lot of people use groundfloat nair-ffs as shield pressure as well.

which kinda answers above guy's question, usually doing a fair from mid height will yield enough frame advantage as well.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In general I think Nair grab is better because you're usually trying to keep Fair sort of away from them so they can't hit you out of the start-up time and Peach has no grab range.