Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Have you guys tried DJC to Dsmash Oos ? Idk if i should practice that 
p
p
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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)
- Thread starter Cia
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
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- 5,493
Peach with Pokeballs would be a banned character. 
@Ryobeat: It's not really worth the time to learn, it's much too slow out of shield.
@Ryobeat: It's not really worth the time to learn, it's much too slow out of shield.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
when getting a fox offstage, when and how often is it a good idea to grab a turnip (and when is it not)? when its better not to, ideas on what should be done instead? (to cover most options/what to react to/etc.). I feel like I have been pulling turnips to try to edgeguard fox too much and lose opportunities but cant identifyt those situations and don't know better alternatives..
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Pika pi?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
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- 5,493
I'm not sure that I understand...
darkatma
Smash Hero
it's very rarely viable, mostly because people space so that they're not sitting next to you after aerials. It does work vs certain things, like poorly spaced falcon uairs.Have you guys tried DJC to Dsmash Oos ? Idk if i should practice that
Try djc Oos to dash, it's actually a great option.
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Ohhh! Okay! Your right. It makes alot of sense.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Sonans
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Ha I understood that! Man, thank god you divorced her! xDI'll try another language.
Toge To Togepi
Is that clear now?
Wake
Smash Master
This thread is scaring me. Ryobeat is talking to animals.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
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Um...I don't understand Togepi, either. Sorry. I never selected the Pokemon option on my Rosetta Stone disc.
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
You just dont understand that Togepi is a strongggggggggggg independent black woman that dont need no man.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
darkatma
Smash Hero
nvm, social thread is more tactical than this thread
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgSUtSF1niE&feature=plcp
Alan is so good in this set. Great set overall too. I really like how Shroomed goes out there to edgeguard because that really fills a big gap for peach in teams.
Alan is so good in this set. Great set overall too. I really like how Shroomed goes out there to edgeguard because that really fills a big gap for peach in teams.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
meh i think between writing this out and watching a few vids of armada i answered my own question. thanks anyway
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
you can also throw the turnip in the opposite direction and grab the edge or drop of the stage, throw the turnip at them and go straight into float or recover after
Hi : D
I've been maining peach for about 5 months now, I love facing spacies, mostly cuz of all the cool DI tricks you can do to screw them over. It's probably the most satisfying thing about the char to me.
Though peach vs spacies may be super fun, I can't seem to find much satisfaction facing falcon or marth.......
Falcon is super hard to beat cuz of auto combos, and marth is just very unfun cuz of the slow pace, this is coming from a person who is generally very patient xD.
I'm wondering if having a secondary is a reasonable solution? I've always just stuck to one main at a time and have never seriously considered actually switching characters in a set, but I've also only every played chars who had almost entirely even match-ups before or none of them were so boring (*cough* peach vs marth).
My friends tell me that peach vs falcon can't possibly be so bad since armada can beat the best falcons. It still feels terrible to me, plus I tend to feel that just because the best player in the world can handle the match up, doesn't prove it to be even ish xD.
My train of thought is leading me to think that I should possibly learn to face falcon/marth with a different character, potentially pika, sheik, or puff.
Does anyone have anything to say about the idea of CPing characters against falcon (or marth)? Has anyone had similar experiences? My main reasons for this idea are once again: tough match-up (falcon), super unfun match up (marth).
I've been maining peach for about 5 months now, I love facing spacies, mostly cuz of all the cool DI tricks you can do to screw them over. It's probably the most satisfying thing about the char to me.
Though peach vs spacies may be super fun, I can't seem to find much satisfaction facing falcon or marth.......
Falcon is super hard to beat cuz of auto combos, and marth is just very unfun cuz of the slow pace, this is coming from a person who is generally very patient xD.
I'm wondering if having a secondary is a reasonable solution? I've always just stuck to one main at a time and have never seriously considered actually switching characters in a set, but I've also only every played chars who had almost entirely even match-ups before or none of them were so boring (*cough* peach vs marth).
My friends tell me that peach vs falcon can't possibly be so bad since armada can beat the best falcons. It still feels terrible to me, plus I tend to feel that just because the best player in the world can handle the match up, doesn't prove it to be even ish xD.
My train of thought is leading me to think that I should possibly learn to face falcon/marth with a different character, potentially pika, sheik, or puff.
Does anyone have anything to say about the idea of CPing characters against falcon (or marth)? Has anyone had similar experiences? My main reasons for this idea are once again: tough match-up (falcon), super unfun match up (marth).
Wake
Smash Master
Well Armada beats everyone...
I don't think Peach needs a secondary for those characters. I think you've only been playing for 5 months and should just get better first before going to a secondary.
I don't think Peach needs a secondary for those characters. I think you've only been playing for 5 months and should just get better first before going to a secondary.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
falcon and marth definitely have the advantage against peach imo. IF you wanted a secondary, id prob guess sheik, cause she/hes good against both of those characters.
BUT, i would just stay peach, assuming you want to main her. 5 months is not that long of playing competitively, and there's definitely room for improvement. i've faced similar concerns and thought about switching, but i guess for me all my other chars were so much worse in comparison that staying peach was easier. im an advocate of simply, if you're losing because of a matchup, just get better. its been working pretty good so far for me, as ive seen progress, though of course i still get annoyed by matchups on the occasion.
BUT, i would just stay peach, assuming you want to main her. 5 months is not that long of playing competitively, and there's definitely room for improvement. i've faced similar concerns and thought about switching, but i guess for me all my other chars were so much worse in comparison that staying peach was easier. im an advocate of simply, if you're losing because of a matchup, just get better. its been working pretty good so far for me, as ive seen progress, though of course i still get annoyed by matchups on the occasion.
I totally agree that 5 months is not very long, especially since there's defs less falcon experience than there is spacie experience on my end, I guess that's why I'm trying to figure out sooner than later if this idea is worth perusing.
The way I see it:
Falcons ban FoD, so they're totally susceptible to getting CG ***** by pika on FD. I also have a very good marth in my region to practice against with pika, so just having that matchup knowlege against those two characters with a character that is rare seems like a huge advantage for the one who knows what they're doing.
This isn't to say I would stop attempting to better my peach vs falcon... cuz blind picks can screw that over. I just think that there's a possiblity that learning pika on certain stages/matchups for the situations where i have a guaranteed character/stage counter picking scenario might be better than picking peach on a preferred stage.
The way I see it:
Falcons ban FoD, so they're totally susceptible to getting CG ***** by pika on FD. I also have a very good marth in my region to practice against with pika, so just having that matchup knowlege against those two characters with a character that is rare seems like a huge advantage for the one who knows what they're doing.
This isn't to say I would stop attempting to better my peach vs falcon... cuz blind picks can screw that over. I just think that there's a possiblity that learning pika on certain stages/matchups for the situations where i have a guaranteed character/stage counter picking scenario might be better than picking peach on a preferred stage.
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
NEVER GO TO PUFF, learn the matchups, here at *drumroll* THE PEACH BOARDS. What exactly are you finding trouble with in those matchups? (Be more specific) I cant help you, cause i got homework and shiz. But someone here should help :3 good luck!
baka4moé
Smash Champion
the way i see it, time and energy spent working on another character is time and energy that can instead be spent on your main. imo, just work on having a fantastic main. thinking more about the game and the matchup will make you improve more than taking the easy way out, e.g. chain grabbing with pikachu.
its really up to you and what your goals are. if ur just trying to beat your friends falcon/marth and pika beats them, then thats fine. at higher levels of play, though, im pretty sure people are generally good enough to be able to handle a pocket character.
its really up to you and what your goals are. if ur just trying to beat your friends falcon/marth and pika beats them, then thats fine. at higher levels of play, though, im pretty sure people are generally good enough to be able to handle a pocket character.
Wake
Smash Master
Yeah I agree with Baka for the most part.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
This game rewards perseverance a lot. If you want to genuinely get good at this game, stick it out with Peach.
john!
Smash Hero
IMO the amount of secondaries a person has should not exceed the amount of years that they've been playing this game (assuming that everybody has only one main)
Cia
das kwl
EPIC DISAGREE!
Tho I do recommend spending more time to get to know peach's mechanics fully. U will find yourself in situations where u'll want to know the peach v Marth match up.
Its boring as hell to play correctly. But very satisfying once u learn it.
Rosedemon
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,760
Everyone hits a ceiling sooner or later, and how you deal with that is really up to you.
If picking up another character(s) helps you succeed competitively, or really helps you in match ups you suck at, then by all means pursue that secondary.
Atma has an amazing peach but is also complemented by an amazing shiek and he considers himself a double main of both characters. Shroomed also has decent success in the higher levels of the game with his secondaries. We also have to mention both M2K and Armada who are notorious for picking secondaries in certain match ups.
If picking up another character(s) helps you succeed competitively, or really helps you in match ups you suck at, then by all means pursue that secondary.
Atma has an amazing peach but is also complemented by an amazing shiek and he considers himself a double main of both characters. Shroomed also has decent success in the higher levels of the game with his secondaries. We also have to mention both M2K and Armada who are notorious for picking secondaries in certain match ups.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Drat, good points for secondaries.
I concede that to some degree secondaries make life easier. But I think the vast majority of the community should wait until they get to a certain point before they start investing serious developmental time into other characters. I don't think anyone hits that point at 5 months, especially with how high the skill average is now.
edit: I told Unknown I think Atma's Peach is his best character but he said he thinks it's his Sheik. We never agree on anything loool. Kind of curious to hear which one Atma thinks is better.
edit: I'm starting to think M2K's old strat of just holding the turnip and throwing it OOS when Puff bairs your shield isn't a bad idea. If nothing else, it takes away a lot of Puff's offense because her pressure isn't generally frame safe. I guess I'd be worried about her nairing instead but because it's a sex kick you could probably spot it as she's doing it and drop turnip > get appropriate float spacing to counter it...
I've been thinking about the MU a lot and I think ideally you keep Puff on the ground if you can. Somehow getting the turnip to zip just over her head is really good. Maybe with better platform movement this can be a thing. But then I don't like being that high in the air vs Puff in general...
Dash attack ***** but you gotta use it very sparingly (and basically only as a reaction to her attacking - it's so easy for Puff to fall on it with rest if she dodges it for any reason and she's got the jumps to do it). I also think f-smash may legitimately be the best rest punish when shenanigans aren't feasible.
edit 2: Pikachu has a really easy 0-death grab on Falcon on FD so I guess you could probably learn him for a cheesy game 3 if you really want it. The only catch is that he's kind of hard to play & learn 'cuz his moves are really weird and his uair is very complicated.
I concede that to some degree secondaries make life easier. But I think the vast majority of the community should wait until they get to a certain point before they start investing serious developmental time into other characters. I don't think anyone hits that point at 5 months, especially with how high the skill average is now.
edit: I told Unknown I think Atma's Peach is his best character but he said he thinks it's his Sheik. We never agree on anything loool. Kind of curious to hear which one Atma thinks is better.
edit: I'm starting to think M2K's old strat of just holding the turnip and throwing it OOS when Puff bairs your shield isn't a bad idea. If nothing else, it takes away a lot of Puff's offense because her pressure isn't generally frame safe. I guess I'd be worried about her nairing instead but because it's a sex kick you could probably spot it as she's doing it and drop turnip > get appropriate float spacing to counter it...
I've been thinking about the MU a lot and I think ideally you keep Puff on the ground if you can. Somehow getting the turnip to zip just over her head is really good. Maybe with better platform movement this can be a thing. But then I don't like being that high in the air vs Puff in general...
Dash attack ***** but you gotta use it very sparingly (and basically only as a reaction to her attacking - it's so easy for Puff to fall on it with rest if she dodges it for any reason and she's got the jumps to do it). I also think f-smash may legitimately be the best rest punish when shenanigans aren't feasible.
edit 2: Pikachu has a really easy 0-death grab on Falcon on FD so I guess you could probably learn him for a cheesy game 3 if you really want it. The only catch is that he's kind of hard to play & learn 'cuz his moves are really weird and his uair is very complicated.
Just in case it was a bit unclear, I mained fox for about 3-4 years with no secondaries, then switched to peach about 5 months ago, so I'm not new to the game or tournament scene by any means.
There's no basic game mechanics that I'm learning, just overall improving on matchups/consistency/lots of little things like most people are. I've gone so many years never having a secondary which is why I'm asking if it's worth it.
So far I'm kinda on the boat that trying really hard with peach vs falcon is prolly the best way to go since it'll be tough and force me to get better at the game overall, which is good.
Though for some reason I can see myself winning more if I had a pocket secondary xD. There's no shortage of players where I live so I wouldn't be starved to get match-up experience.
The only real reason this came up in my mind is cuz I see peach vs falcon as a bad enough match-up to the point where it might be worth it to CP a char lol.
Btw who are some good peaches to watch vs falcon?
There's no basic game mechanics that I'm learning, just overall improving on matchups/consistency/lots of little things like most people are. I've gone so many years never having a secondary which is why I'm asking if it's worth it.
So far I'm kinda on the boat that trying really hard with peach vs falcon is prolly the best way to go since it'll be tough and force me to get better at the game overall, which is good.
Though for some reason I can see myself winning more if I had a pocket secondary xD. There's no shortage of players where I live so I wouldn't be starved to get match-up experience.
The only real reason this came up in my mind is cuz I see peach vs falcon as a bad enough match-up to the point where it might be worth it to CP a char lol.
Btw who are some good peaches to watch vs falcon?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Oh, so you're secretly old. That's a bit different then.
Whether it's worth it basically depends on you. For some people it works out great, others hit even more plateaus because their attention is split. And there's no real way to know which one you'll be beforehand.
I find more people tend to improve rapidly & learn better playing one character 'cuz you'll always see the game with a certain degree of character bias but... yeah, not always the case.
Whether it's worth it basically depends on you. For some people it works out great, others hit even more plateaus because their attention is split. And there's no real way to know which one you'll be beforehand.
I find more people tend to improve rapidly & learn better playing one character 'cuz you'll always see the game with a certain degree of character bias but... yeah, not always the case.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
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Yeah, fsmash is good, reliable damage, when you can't get silly turnip tricksies. And turnip throw OOS sounds interesting, I'll have to try it out. A grounded Puff = no bairs = happy us.
@PMsurveys: Pink Shinobi is a very good Peach to learn the Falcon MU from. Watch his matches vs SilentSpectre. And you can't go wrong with recent Armada stuff, I guess.
@PMsurveys: Pink Shinobi is a very good Peach to learn the Falcon MU from. Watch his matches vs SilentSpectre. And you can't go wrong with recent Armada stuff, I guess.
Wake
Smash Master
Maybe you should just use your Fox that has 3-4 years of experience as a secondary against Falcon? (And Marth if you're comfortable, but a lot of Foxes seem to dislike that MU)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Foxes dislike the MU because Fox's room for error is less than Marth's and because being auto-comboed to death isn't fun. Also, it's one of the few MUs that Marths tend to actually tend to know.
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
what do u think about ic's as a secondary to peach, peach is obviously better but ic's has a decent matchup against shiek and good matchup with puff, falcon is probably my most played matchup with ic's too.
the climbers are also just about as different from peach as you can get, makes people switch styles.
imo first game neutral control is really important as you feel each other out so i would play peach.
second game they areprobably more aggressive and want to punish habits ect.(assuming i won the 1st round) so i would play ics and play a patient shield/punishment game.
third game would probably depend on the reaction from the char switch
this is all theory bros btw and i can actually play a patient shield game with ics/control neutral effectively with peach.
i think experienced ic's players are>most falcon scrubs
the climbers are also just about as different from peach as you can get, makes people switch styles.
imo first game neutral control is really important as you feel each other out so i would play peach.
second game they areprobably more aggressive and want to punish habits ect.(assuming i won the 1st round) so i would play ics and play a patient shield/punishment game.
third game would probably depend on the reaction from the char switch
this is all theory bros btw and i can actually play a patient shield game with ics/control neutral effectively with peach.
i think experienced ic's players are>most falcon scrubs
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Funny you mention that. I recently just picked up Peach as a secondary to ICs. My main motivation was that Peach is simply a far superior teams character, but I also want to use Peach for Peach dittos (a matchup I think I'm pretty good at and far less stressful than ICs vs. Peach). ICs do a pretty good job covering Peach's weak matchups, particularly Marth and Sheik. I like ICs vs. Falcon too.
Other than Peach dittos, I'd use Peach against Ganon (solid matchup for Peach imo), Mario Bros., Samus, and possibly spacies if my ICs just aren't getting the job done.
Overall I think the two characters actually compliment each other really well. The main weakness would be Fox, who is pretty hard to have a solid answer for anyway. Top Falcons could also be an issue.
Other than Peach dittos, I'd use Peach against Ganon (solid matchup for Peach imo), Mario Bros., Samus, and possibly spacies if my ICs just aren't getting the job done.
Overall I think the two characters actually compliment each other really well. The main weakness would be Fox, who is pretty hard to have a solid answer for anyway. Top Falcons could also be an issue.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
I considered picking up climbers at one point then, effort and all.
