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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)
- Thread starter Cia
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Atma MM
My Fox vs your whatever
$3-5, bo5
The Big House
Let's make it happen
edit: This offer extends to all the Peaches going to The Big House in this thread, willing to go $1-5. bo5s available for values $3 or more. Otherwise bo3.
My Fox vs your whatever
$3-5, bo5
The Big House
Let's make it happen
edit: This offer extends to all the Peaches going to The Big House in this thread, willing to go $1-5. bo5s available for values $3 or more. Otherwise bo3.
darkatma
Smash Hero
I'm down for fox ditto and fox v falco :D
my spacies are decent i swear!
my spacies are decent i swear!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Let's dance baby
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm always down baby
Wake
Smash Master
Hmm I miiiiiiight do that KK. And yes, Peach is the most fun character in this game, and Pink is the best. Smash rules also don't apply to her, and your opponents will probably feel like the game is cheating to help you win.
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Pink is alright, but that spring time Green is the best<3 Also, note that people will get mad at you for playing peach and not understand her difficulties. This anger will last until you are at a decent level of peach, where legit players understand that shes hard as **** to play :33
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- Oct 5, 2008
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Ryobeat
Smash Ace
If its about the color, i stand my ground. If its about Peach hate...where do you live Dx
- Joined
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I firmly believe Peach requires no skill, but I like to say that here a lot for funs
I live in MD/NOVA during college breaks and in west side of SOVA during college
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
That job sounds like fun. AND WHY DO PEOPLE HERE NOT LIKE PEACH, and the guys a sheik, you would think he'd like the 60-40 -_-Oh well, life.
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- Oct 5, 2008
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- 7,187
For some reason I can't understand your post...
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
...............welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, then i'll ask a question! Help with sheik! I understand im not suppose to get grabbed, but it ends up happening, with FAIR grab, needle grab, pivot. Is there a specific range i can stay out of to avoid her grab/followups to grab? And what stages should i pick?
Edit: If anyone was to explain the range using the Pokemon Stadium Top View that Mahone made, thatd be cool, or is there a general good spot?
Wake
Smash Master
I like YS and FoD against Sheik.
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- Oct 5, 2008
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This isn't a matchup I'm experienced with, but I'll tell what I think
Peach vs Sheik is a game of who is impatient/dumb enough to approach. Don't ever approach. Like ever
Everything Sheik has that isn't ftilt is very crouch cancelable. Trade hits. You'll always be getting the better end of the deal. Crouch cancel stuff and then down smash. If you're doing a smash attack while you're getting hit the damage ratio increases, meaning you'll get off the ground and go father. Sheik can't grab a Peach downsmash
Sheik doesn't seem to do too well on FD in my experience
If the Sheik is bad at dthrow fair/uair, you can DI away/slightly-down and jam nair hoping to hit her before she hits you. If they're not going to mess it up, you're going to get hurt on every throw. I usually tend to chose the poison of DIing away to eat a fair and then (smash) DIing it up to hope to survive
II'd say this is Peach's 2nd worst matchup but it's only like 45:55
baka4moé
Smash Champion
i hate shiek.
just to add im pretty sure sheiks fair is not cc -> dsmash'able if sheik spaces it right. it is also possible for sheik to grab peach's dsmash if it wiffs, and sheik can wd oos -> grab if she shields ur dsmash, but the window is a bit tight. i think these are all right but if anyone knows otherwise please clarify for me
just to add im pretty sure sheiks fair is not cc -> dsmash'able if sheik spaces it right. it is also possible for sheik to grab peach's dsmash if it wiffs, and sheik can wd oos -> grab if she shields ur dsmash, but the window is a bit tight. i think these are all right but if anyone knows otherwise please clarify for me
john!
Smash Hero
epsilon isn't at the level that you were talking about.
and lots of top players aren't "legitimate" either
darkatma
Smash Hero
Those are all correct baka
Sheik's main ways to get peach are to shuffle fairs, needles->grab or needle cancel aerials for the mixup. Getting grabbed by sheik is dangerous because she gets a guaranteed dthrow->upair at high enough percents (115 ish on full DI away, 90+ on any other DI).
I find that most peaches inexperienced in this matchup will get caught approaching with dash attacks that get shielded into free shieldgrabs (my biggest problem vs marth). In addition, sheik's ftilt beats out most things an approaching peach can do. The ftilt and dtilt are particularly problematic at around 70-80%, because peach can get launched pretty high, and if she is DIing in (which happens often during an approach), she can get upaired at low percent for the kill. The solution is to take note of your percent and mixup a ton of dashdance or wavedash back into your game during certain dangerous percents.
Wavedash back is incredible in this matchup for a multitude of reasons.
1) You're buffering DI away during your wavedash so that when you get hit you won't get comboed
2) You're defending against sheik, who has a poor approach game
3) Wavedash back dtilt is one of the most devastating combo starters you can get on sheik. Every major combo against her starts with one of these, followed by either upair or dashattack.
4) You maintain mobility. A hugeee problem I see with mediocre peach players is that they like sitting in place and doing jabs, spotdodges, and dsmashes after fc aerials. that's like telling a dashdancing character to get free grabs on you. Move around more and you'll see improved results.
Mediocre sheiks or defensive players tend to sit in their shield a ton in this matchup, so don't be afraid to just go for grabs. Stay grounded for the most part against sheik, because if you're in the air first, she tends to just slap you out since she's more mobile. Get sheik into the air, then you have a large advantage while on the ground because your dash attack will cleave right under her fair and bair and hit her legs with the right timing. Also upair a ton vs sheik, it works wonders and combos and racks damage.
I'm not a huge advocate of spamming turnips in this matchup, doesn't seem as useful as vs marth.
Oh yes always buffer doublestick tech/euro tech at high percents during your dsmash/FC approaches/airdodges etc. You'll survive sheik's fair till 200+% if you just DI it down and techroll.
Sheik's main ways to get peach are to shuffle fairs, needles->grab or needle cancel aerials for the mixup. Getting grabbed by sheik is dangerous because she gets a guaranteed dthrow->upair at high enough percents (115 ish on full DI away, 90+ on any other DI).
I find that most peaches inexperienced in this matchup will get caught approaching with dash attacks that get shielded into free shieldgrabs (my biggest problem vs marth). In addition, sheik's ftilt beats out most things an approaching peach can do. The ftilt and dtilt are particularly problematic at around 70-80%, because peach can get launched pretty high, and if she is DIing in (which happens often during an approach), she can get upaired at low percent for the kill. The solution is to take note of your percent and mixup a ton of dashdance or wavedash back into your game during certain dangerous percents.
Wavedash back is incredible in this matchup for a multitude of reasons.
1) You're buffering DI away during your wavedash so that when you get hit you won't get comboed
2) You're defending against sheik, who has a poor approach game
3) Wavedash back dtilt is one of the most devastating combo starters you can get on sheik. Every major combo against her starts with one of these, followed by either upair or dashattack.
4) You maintain mobility. A hugeee problem I see with mediocre peach players is that they like sitting in place and doing jabs, spotdodges, and dsmashes after fc aerials. that's like telling a dashdancing character to get free grabs on you. Move around more and you'll see improved results.
Mediocre sheiks or defensive players tend to sit in their shield a ton in this matchup, so don't be afraid to just go for grabs. Stay grounded for the most part against sheik, because if you're in the air first, she tends to just slap you out since she's more mobile. Get sheik into the air, then you have a large advantage while on the ground because your dash attack will cleave right under her fair and bair and hit her legs with the right timing. Also upair a ton vs sheik, it works wonders and combos and racks damage.
I'm not a huge advocate of spamming turnips in this matchup, doesn't seem as useful as vs marth.
Oh yes always buffer doublestick tech/euro tech at high percents during your dsmash/FC approaches/airdodges etc. You'll survive sheik's fair till 200+% if you just DI it down and techroll.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Er...where did you see me use Fox?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
I'll MM your Fox, David.
With Monkey Kong
With Monkey Kong
Quaz
Smash Master
I would assume against Bones' Peach.
I was watching Armada VS Amsah from Pound 4 (which was a godo while back). and man.. Armada was just gettin slapped around like crazy.
Would you guys say thats a perfect example of Peach vs Sheik at high levels? or maybe Armada was just off or something? It really felt like to me he really couldn't have done anything, but Im not good enough at this game to really know that, haha.
I was watching Armada VS Amsah from Pound 4 (which was a godo while back). and man.. Armada was just gettin slapped around like crazy.
Would you guys say thats a perfect example of Peach vs Sheik at high levels? or maybe Armada was just off or something? It really felt like to me he really couldn't have done anything, but Im not good enough at this game to really know that, haha.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I think you mean Bones' Fox vs. my Peach lol
- Joined
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- Messages
- 26,550
Armada is an extremely consistent player. I'd say it's pretty indicative of the MU. Not unwinnable for Peach but definitely in Sheik's favor.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
I am starting to think there is no level where people wont ***** about peach. G$ who is the best on LI complains that she takes no skill and he calls me bad b/c i use her tools well. (I am 2nd best on LI and i go 40/60 against g$. Saying this so you understand i am not being called bad b/c i lose all the time)
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Well since apparently some friendlies with my Peach were recorded, critique plz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYlimatkvxo
bones, if you read this, upload the actual tourney set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYlimatkvxo
bones, if you read this, upload the actual tourney set
Quaz
Smash Master
ooo my bad lol. Bones made it sound like to me it was his.
I played against G$ at FC in a friendly and he seemed like a nice guy to me.. huh. Oh well. it was just one match.
you should come to Midwest nagace. All we complain about is sheik, puff, and kels.
I played against G$ at FC in a friendly and he seemed like a nice guy to me.. huh. Oh well. it was just one match.
you should come to Midwest nagace. All we complain about is sheik, puff, and kels.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
g$ has the funniest trash talk loooool
also nagace just from an objective perspective there are levels above g$, and the *****ing isn't always there. sure people may call her stupid/etc., but ive had many top players just wonder how people can do well with peach (cause she's not that good)
also nagace just from an objective perspective there are levels above g$, and the *****ing isn't always there. sure people may call her stupid/etc., but ive had many top players just wonder how people can do well with peach (cause she's not that good)
Wake
Smash Master
People will always be mad.
darkatma
Smash Hero
oh LOL
sorry, Bones's fox is incredibly untechnical then
And peach is a good character and takes just as much skill to play well as fox/falco
Wake
Smash Master
Atmaaaa. I really want to play you at BH!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I gotchu bb
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
May someone help me generally understand something? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8MAAL9FRk <--------- This is a video of my peach 1 month ago, and even though its been a month, i already see LOADS of changes. I now understand the concept of positioning, being more mobile, etc,etc. But i feel like I'm lacking something in my neutral game, and i feel its a factor of spacing. I just dont know how to improve or learn to space better. Like, im basically trying to see what is that difference between a mid level player at my locals(Me), to the mid-high players that are able to kind of play the higher class.
darkatma
Smash Hero
From a quick watch, it seems you have a fairly developed combo game, but the thing that needs the most work is your defensive game. Go back and watch yourself and take note of every time you roll, and note why you are rolling. Then try to subsitute your rolls with wavedash->dashes and nair out of shields.
Do the same with dashdancing. Also, try to find better foxes to play, because your friend's tech skill isn't good enough to be pressuring you the same way a good fox will in tournaments.
Tl;dr version: your mobility should not be diminished when you are defending!
Do the same with dashdancing. Also, try to find better foxes to play, because your friend's tech skill isn't good enough to be pressuring you the same way a good fox will in tournaments.
Tl;dr version: your mobility should not be diminished when you are defending!
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
AH, yes. Okay, thank you, that gives me a goal/something to strive for!
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWAUnvDLq9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIWOzLwr2s4
New matches
I'm not too impressed with how I played. Hopefully things will be different next weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIWOzLwr2s4
New matches
I'm not too impressed with how I played. Hopefully things will be different next weekend.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
112 or 108
I forget which space animal is what
I forget which space animal is what
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Fox is 96. Falco is 108. This is secret information, NOT TO BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC.
There's a lot to respond to today, but lemme just say first, that Zant is a troll. He thinks that Peach requires no skill whatsoever to play, and we're all just derps who get lucky and aren't actually good, cause it's just Peach. And that skill from this game comes due to how many buttons you press. At least, that's what it ALWAYS sounds like. :\ If you've ever watched an Armada match vs a Fox, you'd know that she requires IMMENSE skill and precision in inputs to be able to play that MU at even a mid-high level. This is my only response to this, because I don't want to go down this road again.
@Nintendude: There was one friendliy in the stream recording where Bones was using Peach, and you Fox, I believe, which is what Bones linked to. http://www.twitch.tv/chillindude2/b/331523120 @ 1:47:00
@Ryobeat: FD is a stage I like vs Sheik as well, but it's kind of do or die there. We juggle her pretty well, but in return, we don't have platforms to escape from downthrow (which is kind of useful). In general, though, I think FD favors us more, because she suffers more from the lack of platforms than we do. I just want to emphasize two things that Atma said (very good stuff on Sheik, btw <3). Mobility during defense (a really big thing for Peach is abusing her ability to stay mobile while defending, through good use of WD), and crouch cancelling. You will, more often than not, be able to catch bad/mediocre Sheiks with a lot of crouch cancel downsmash, and while it's a really bad habit to spam this (I kind of loathe to say this), if you find that these Sheiks you're playing cannot deal with it, ABUSE IT. Against proper spacing, crouching > shield, and then moving from there, is more often than not a better option.
I like the thing about buffering DI when you wavedash, too. And of course, don't float for any period of time, and try not to jump too much vs Sheik. And 90% of the dash attacks you want to do, should be grabs instead. Throw her towards the ledge, or uthrow (sometimes, you get illegitimate follows on their preemptive DJs with uairs, or you just get a uair if they don't DI. Sheik is above you, this is good).
@Quaz: As I hear it, Armada was sick-ish at Pound 4, but for the most part, I think it was a decent representation of the MU, at least. I'd like to see Armada play against more NTSC Sheiks (KK), cause he has it waaaaaaay too easy.
There's a lot to respond to today, but lemme just say first, that Zant is a troll. He thinks that Peach requires no skill whatsoever to play, and we're all just derps who get lucky and aren't actually good, cause it's just Peach. And that skill from this game comes due to how many buttons you press. At least, that's what it ALWAYS sounds like. :\ If you've ever watched an Armada match vs a Fox, you'd know that she requires IMMENSE skill and precision in inputs to be able to play that MU at even a mid-high level. This is my only response to this, because I don't want to go down this road again.
@Nintendude: There was one friendliy in the stream recording where Bones was using Peach, and you Fox, I believe, which is what Bones linked to. http://www.twitch.tv/chillindude2/b/331523120 @ 1:47:00
@Ryobeat: FD is a stage I like vs Sheik as well, but it's kind of do or die there. We juggle her pretty well, but in return, we don't have platforms to escape from downthrow (which is kind of useful). In general, though, I think FD favors us more, because she suffers more from the lack of platforms than we do. I just want to emphasize two things that Atma said (very good stuff on Sheik, btw <3). Mobility during defense (a really big thing for Peach is abusing her ability to stay mobile while defending, through good use of WD), and crouch cancelling. You will, more often than not, be able to catch bad/mediocre Sheiks with a lot of crouch cancel downsmash, and while it's a really bad habit to spam this (I kind of loathe to say this), if you find that these Sheiks you're playing cannot deal with it, ABUSE IT. Against proper spacing, crouching > shield, and then moving from there, is more often than not a better option.
I like the thing about buffering DI when you wavedash, too. And of course, don't float for any period of time, and try not to jump too much vs Sheik. And 90% of the dash attacks you want to do, should be grabs instead. Throw her towards the ledge, or uthrow (sometimes, you get illegitimate follows on their preemptive DJs with uairs, or you just get a uair if they don't DI. Sheik is above you, this is good).
@Quaz: As I hear it, Armada was sick-ish at Pound 4, but for the most part, I think it was a decent representation of the MU, at least. I'd like to see Armada play against more NTSC Sheiks (KK), cause he has it waaaaaaay too easy.