VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Silly Kyle]

Pink Shinobi has great videos vs. SS for the matchup <3

 

[Strong Badam]

Looks like john! and I are in the same pool.

Let's just put $10 on the pool result for our MM

 

[Rosedemon]

I throw in an extra 5 to the winner.

10 if its Strong Bad.

HASHTAGPLAYINGFAVORITES!

 

[MattDotZeb]

Hey, Vanz, how do I beat you?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'd bet $10 if i could figure out who to root for...

 

[crush]

$10 on whoever isnt strong bad

 

[john!]

Looks like john! and I are in the same pool.

Let's just put $10 on the pool result for our MM

nah i want to make it a separate set

I'd bet $10 if i could figure out who to root for...

you'd better hope you don't run into me again in tourney when i'm not playing like a ****ing ******

 

[Strong Badam]

if we make it a second set we're using MBR ruleset

 

[john!]

sounds good :D

edit: post 7000

i'd like to dedicate this post to

 

[Cia]

Hey, Vanz, how do I beat you?

You don't, unfortunately

 

[Wake]

nah i want to make it a separate set



you'd better hope you don't run into me again in tourney when i'm not playing like a ****ing ******

John. I saw those matches. You're better than that. lol

 

[MattDotZeb]

You don't, unfortunately

I see. Good job getting first in our pool at FC, then!

 

[MacD]

take his blue buff matt

oh and ban kat

i bet you could do it then cause he'd be so mad

 

[Cia]

lol.. that's like the perfect way to end up on my ignore list

 

[MacD]

i miss teh good ol days of being in skype and vent and **** talking everyone on the side

or through /r

 

[Cia]

we can relieve those days if u ever sign on league again.

or invite me to a game D:

 

[MacD]

yea, though i can only play from like 5ish-10ish my time mon-fri, and even then only a couple games normally :/

try to make something happen this weekend maybe aka inviting you LOL. or vice versa, you could try inviting me

 

[Nintendude]

Been playing a lot of Peach lately and I'm having trouble consistently edgeguarding spacies.A lot of times I struggle to pick between float Bair and float Dair right at the edge. In what situations should I use which? I also end up trading with their up-B a lot, which ruins the edgeguard. Does this mean I'm somehow spacing stuff incorrectly or am I mistiming it / using the wrong move?

Also, at what % does the chaingrab start working on fastfallers?

 

[Xyzz]

Hiya, welcome to the pink side of the force

Regarding the chaingrab, that's easy to answer pretty exhaustively:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2933012&postcount=2

Edgeguarding:
Dair: it really helps to have a look at the hitboxes (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9539/downair.gif); You shouldn't be located directly above the ledge, instead you should be rather firmly above the stage, because the hitboxes stretch quite far. I think, if you get the spacing right and fox is coming in a rather steep angle, the firefox will surely be hit before getting through to your hurtboxes cancelling the attack. Problem is of course that dair doesn't really send them anywhere, so you have to be prepared to repeat the process a few times and/or pull a turnip in between and throw it at them after the next dair.
Bair: again, having a look at the gif from the hitboxes thread (http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7919/backair.gif) shows, that if at all possible you want to hit them with the part that extends above your backside (ok, butt. **** it :D). If not a trade is pretty possible.

Which to use? I'm not too sure for the most part. ShroudedOne once told me, that bair doesn't extend below the stage, so perfect sweetspots aren't hit by it, so if you think they might get that done, you have to use dair.
If you mess up with the dair you'll surely trade (I think), while with bair it can work. Plus after a bair you can probably go for a direct kill, if he doesn't die from it already.

TLDR: I think: It's mostly spacing related if you get trades. Go for the dair in case of good sweetspots. The steeper the angle the better dair gets, conversely bair gets better if the angle of the firefox gets closer to horizontal.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Just so u know, when i clicked on the dair gif link a 404 not found page showed up

 

[baka4moé]

it includes the " ); " at the end of the link; just remove it and u shud be fine.

ur also less likely to trade ur bair if u fast fall it iirc

 

[Xyzz]

Fixed.
Was actually going to flame vBulletin for not terminating URLs at closing brackets, but according to this standard brackets are actually allowable :x

 

[Cia]

Been playing a lot of Peach lately and I'm having trouble consistently edgeguarding spacies.A lot of times I struggle to pick between float Bair and float Dair right at the edge. In what situations should I use which? I also end up trading with their up-B a lot, which ruins the edgeguard. Does this mean I'm somehow spacing stuff incorrectly or am I mistiming it / using the wrong move?

Also, at what % does the chaingrab start working on fastfallers?

When edge guarding spacies, I like to consider a few things. Lets use Final Destination for this example. (BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST STAGE EVERRRRRR)

Fox is recovering from below the ledge. We're going to assume he's a moderately skilled Fox player and sweet spots the ledge every time. If he's close enough to the stage where he can hug the side and you can't get between him and the stage. Dair > Nair is the way to go. BUT, If you can get between fox and the stage, Bair or Nair or Fair all work nicely. (Fair being my favorite but most difficult to land)

These are the best edge guard methods unless you have time to snipe fox with a turnip while he's charging Firefox. That's GG

Also, I believe M2K once said you can CG Fox from as early as 21% and Falco from as early as 16%
-----

@ macd - I literally never see you on anymore. Can't invite what doesn't exist lol. Also, I will be leaving for the FC hotel at around 12 noon on Saturday. (9:00 am PST) We can't play this weekend either.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I can only do the CG at 28

/wrists

 

[MacD]

oh yea, for a while (like this past month) i was really mad at league and only played on nicks account with kira to get it over 1650, or just didn't play at all

now i gotta find a place to live, BUT SOON WE GOT THIS!!!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I think the minimum percentage at which the CG starts working would depend on port priority. I might be wrong.

 

[Quaz]

Vanz Im gonna be at FC sunday and monday.

lets get some games in!

 

[Nintendude]

Cool, thanks for the tips guys. Something else that's bugging me is getting back onstage from the ledge. It's a pain with Peach because her second jump sucks and I feel like there's no really safe option. I particularly struggle with this against Marth. What's my best bet here?

 

[Strong Badam]

I think the minimum percentage at which the CG starts working would depend on port priority. I might be wrong.

That only affects ground-bounce d-throws like ganon/sheik d-throw. Peach's u-throw is unaffected.
I had the u-throw percentages somewhere.... I'll hunt it down.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Chaingrabbing Falco from 15% is freaking HARD AS HELL. I'd much rather just downsmash him to 30-40 and work from there.

Strong Bad, if you're looking for Peach's CG on spacies, it's been posted in here already, on this page, by Xyzz. But just in case you missed it: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2933012&postcount=2

@Nintendude: Our ledge game sucks. No way around it. The safest thing we have (other than no going for the ledge) is parasol stalling, and this isn't even fully effective since we can't sweetspot with it. I heard once that ledge jumping was OK with her, and double jump > aerial isn't the worst thing ever, but against Marth you should be recovering high most of the time if not always. He edgeguards her from below way too well, and taking a few uairs/fairs is much preferred to losing a stock (his dtilt pwns us here pretty hard).

Maybe there are some ledge options that actually work that other people know about and would be willing to share.

 

[Cia]

Vanz Im gonna be at FC sunday and monday.

lets get some games in!

sure

Cool, thanks for the tips guys. Something else that's bugging me is getting back onstage from the ledge. It's a pain with Peach because her second jump sucks and I feel like there's no really safe option. I particularly struggle with this against Marth. What's my best bet here?

Marth can technically cover all of Peach's recovery options solidly. There is no guaranteed way unfortunately. You just have to change your recovery pattern very often and try to catch him off guard. I like jumping from the ledge with Nair, X jump from ledge, Normal get up > Dsmash, Air dodge from ledge, etc. just mix it up.

That only affects ground-bounce d-throws like ganon/sheik d-throw. Peach's u-throw is unaffected.
I had the u-throw percentages somewhere.... I'll hunt it down.

Yea I was talking about this to someone recently. tried to search for it but the search feature isn't showing me anything from after June 28th.. wtf

 

[Xyzz]

I usually use google and add site:smashboards.com if I look for something on the boards :D

 

[Nintendude]

Smashboards has the most incompetent search feature I've ever seen.

 

[ShroudedOne]

How do you guys time your wavedashes onto the ledge to take it from Sheik during her shinostall (if it's even possible for Peach, her wavedash is super short ). The timing seems really tight (to me, anyways), and I've been watching vids of other characters (Fox, Marth) wavedash or PC edgehog onto the ledge...I know Peach can't PC (if so, it's really hard), so I'm trying to see if we can wavedash on, maybe. I'm not averse to learning a reasonable timing.

 

[Paju]

How do you guys time your wavedashes onto the ledge to take it from Sheik during her shinostall (if it's even possible for Peach, her wavedash is super short ). The timing seems really tight (to me, anyways), and I've been watching vids of other characters (Fox, Marth) wavedash or PC edgehog onto the ledge...I know Peach can't PC (if so, it's really hard), so I'm trying to see if we can wavedash on, maybe. I'm not averse to learning a reasonable timing.

I think I've never managed to steal the edge with wavedash, but in the other hand, I've had some succesfull attemps with fast falled ground-high float. Obviously it's still pretty risky and easy for Sheik to counter, but if the Sheik player doesn't pay enough attention to your movement, you might be able to surprise her with it.

However, usually I just prefer to keep the stage control and pull turnips. Especially if I am at +100% because even if you manage to take the edge from Sheik, she can still react to your approach and land upB on stage. And as we know, Peach can't really punish that properly from the ledge without the fast getup.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I stopped trying to steal the edge and just throw/pluck turnips and try to be ready for when they decide to come back onto the stage.

Also shrouded whats the new avatar from?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can float and threaten the ledge steal, react to seeing her start another one and fall and grab the edge. Of course, you'd be in range to get fair'd but you're also threatening bair so there are options.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think shield > WD FF edgehog is usually the way to go vs Sheik's poofstall if you wanna try to create an aggressive play opportunity. If Sheik tries to swat you away with fair when you're shielding you have a bunch of good options depending on how she did it.

 

[Rosedemon]

KK TELL THEM ABOUT MY SEXY *** EDGEGUARDING SKILLS!

Cuz I was on point that match.

 

[ShroudedOne]

So it's possible, but kinda hard. Time to start practicing, then. I always heard shield > wavedash, but I could never quite get it.

Float > drop to the ledge sounds too risky because of poof, and because I'm not sure that we'd move fast enough to get the ledge, once we see her animation starting. Also, fair.

I've also come to the very, very late conclusion that Sheik hard counters Peach, and is worse than Fox. I hope I'm wrong, though.

Nagace: My avatar is from the Gamecube game Evolution Worlds. The girl seen here is one of the two main characters. Her name is Linear Cannon.