VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Strong Badam]

You can CG DK and Roy (iirc) from 0-26 or something. With up throw.

stopped at 19 last time i tested it (2010)

 

[Wake]

Turnip traps I learned from Xelic.

Also I think you can see how effective they are at controlling a fast Fox, as opposed to how Paju just tries to outzone them.

Yeah I've been having a bit of trouble with Foxes like that, so I think I'll be experimenting with turnips more. There was one spot where a turnip hit him into an extra hit or two of the dsmash.

 

[DoH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYpaGNjpGzg

Me vs Chillin LF

Me vs Chu WF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUNXxsuIvqM&feature=plcp

 

[Cia]

ROFL.. I died @ your SD vs ChuDat.

Good stuff tho.

 

[Wake]

Did I see a shield drop against Chillin, DoH? Nice.

 

[ShroudedOne]

hey guys, im a new peach main. i switched from ic's after taking a break and noticed an immediate shift in my results
I have this 1 video of me that was at a small casual tourney. i make some pretty big mistakes but i had only practiced peach for about a week before maybe an hour every day
http://youtu.be/xk2E21lbLfs
if i could get some critiques on general strategy and less on tech flaws and stupid aggro dash attk and dsmash spam that would be nice.
also i realized that i disregarded the float and fair almost entirely, anyways i hope someone at least enjoys watching this(mad combos lol)

Versus Falco, you should be floating over his lasers more. Try to exercise more patience, find holes in his laser spacing, and punish with fairs/nairs (though fair works better overall).

You seem to get daired kind of often. Things like shield > out of shield punish, or wavedash back > downsmash work really well versus Falco's who love to dair. It's one of the moves you should be looking out for the MOST versus him, especially as Peach.

Downsmash is not a good edgeguarding tool. If you know they're going to side B to the ledge, you can throw a turnip out there to intercept it. I think float > dair at the ledge will catch them as well, if you dangle your feet over the edge. When they're recovering over the ledge, you can full jump/short hop nair/bair. If they are below the stage, just float > dair at the ledge. Falco can mix up his recovery a lot, so be prepared to react to this.

Get out of the habit of crouch cancelling his dairs into downsmash. You shouldn't be able to do this normally; the Falco probably isn't fastfalling them properly. When you're getting comboed by Falco, hold down + away.

These are just general vs Falco tips. I'm sure you know about the tech skill issues.

 

[Wake]

DoH! That ending vs Chu! Whyyyy?!

Nice job SK. All the Peaches are getting better it seems like.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i am working on fcnair out of powershield and well spaced fc fairs mostly, i am practicing lots of movement and learning the matchups. it is nice to play somewhat similar in each matchup, ics have to have alot of different strategies for different chars.
What matchups should i use ics for as a viable secondary.
also what are the ways of nairing while in float, i cant seem to figure it out.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How does the peach vs ICs match-up work exactly? I've heard its really bad for ICs but Trail does really well against my peach. I've pretty much given up on peach entirely to focus on fox, but I have put a good amount of time into peach and I wouldn't mind knowing another CP match-up

 

[john!]

ic's have to change their playstyle up a lot since most of their usual shenanigans will get cc-dsmashed

so even though it's a bad matchup for ic's, it's largely player dependent; if the ic's player knows what will and will not work vs. peach, then it's not a free win for her and she actually has to think about what she's doing lol

trail knows the matchup quite well from what i can remember (it's been a few years since i've played him)

 

[Wake]

If the ICs play well, the Peach player might actually have to THINK about what she's doing! Goodness me!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Trail doesn't really rely on shenanigans against me. Generally, he uses lots of movement as baits and attacks at opportune times with smashes and grabs. I hypothesize that limiting space and eventually cutting off the wavesmash option would solve that issue, but that wont be easy.

Generally speaking, we go even in Fox vs ICs on every stage except FD and my best solution is to just ban FD, but in the last crew battle banning a stage wasn't allowed so I was just trying to learn it as fox.

The solution I hypothesized generally would be hardest on FD, since it is the largest stage horizontally and the lack of platforms doesn't limit ICs. I still think it might be a better shot than going Fox on FD.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Every time DoH (or any Peach, for that matter) pulls a turnip, I cringe. Then he turns it into magic. Wtf.

Also, how'd you win that Winner's Semis set? I'm so confused.

 

[Wake]

Them turnip traps.

 

[DoH]

Witchcraft.

Also I figured out that he was good at pressuring me on small stages and with platforms, so I went big. I knew he would counterpick his favorite stage, FD, so I wasn't too worried about that.

VS Chu...I got really tired and my hands were very wobbly. You can hear my own reaction on the recording, lol. That was a 19 minute set =\

 

[EPsilon933]

I got really tired and my hands were very wobbly. You can hear my own reaction on the recording, lol. That was a 19 minute set =\

Try this. It works for me. My hands never get tired, ever

 

[DoH]

My hands weren't tired, it was nerves. Mentally I got tired.

 

[Wake]

Peach probably is a witch though. Look at how she floats around.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Falco can hit the "blind spot" with his usmash.

 

[baka4moé]

or reverse uptilt, which he could conceivably execute before u can react to it while you're in that blind spot..

 

[KirbyKaze]

Trail doesn't really rely on shenanigans against me. Generally, he uses lots of movement as baits and attacks at opportune times with smashes and grabs. I hypothesize that limiting space and eventually cutting off the wavesmash option would solve that issue, but that wont be easy.

This is so vague.

But from the sounds if it you're doing any of the following things wrong:

1) Not using turnips to initiate effectively
2) Committing after your FC when it's unnecessary to do so
3) Poor spacing or positioning of your float aerials (includes height)

Peach can occupy a space that's not only really difficult for ICs to challenge but also poses a serious threat to them because of how much BKB her fair has (she can separate them at stupid low percents with it). The sheer amount of safety she has in this zone lets her screw around a lot provided you don't get hit by a dumb grab gimmick (DI out of blizzard setups, etc).

The main way to lose this MU is to whiff down smashes or inappropriately hit their shield with it. It's really not that hard to WD OOS punish with ICs on Peach's down smash if it doesn't pierce, so try your hardest to make it do so. Grabs hurt.

In the 1v1 with Popo, remember that grab is a good follow from FC aerial and that it also directly counters shield. There is a lot of merit to just tossing Popo offstage and then swinging around with bairs and such. Single Climber has an absolutely horrific recovery.

Generally speaking, we go even in Fox vs ICs on every stage except FD and my best solution is to just ban FD, but in the last crew battle banning a stage wasn't allowed so I was just trying to learn it as fox.

It's not allowed in bo5 either under the MBR recommended ruleset so it may be worthwhile learning something for FD for that reason too. I suggest either get better with Fox, or learn how to cheese ICs with Peach. Or both.

The solution I hypothesized generally would be hardest on FD, since it is the largest stage horizontally and the lack of platforms doesn't limit ICs. I still think it might be a better shot than going Fox on FD.

Peach is objectively better than Fox vs ICs on FD as far as I'm concerned. Nothing about Peach vs ICs really changes. You still float, kill Nana, fight Popo. Rinse, lather, repeat. That said, if you decide to use Fox, I think FD rewards you for being (intelligently) aggressive vs ICs. Their defensive game is pretty crap when you figure that their CC options and such are pretty weak. Fox's main defense against them (platform camp) doesn't work there anyway. So you might as well swing and try to outpace them.

 

[Rosedemon]

How do you DI out of the blizzard shenanigans (mainly when and where?)

 

[DoH]

Just on the ground or like in a grab?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I believe the DI for blizzard is up and away.

 

[Rosedemon]

like Nana's WD in blizzard

 

[KirbyKaze]

There are a few things you can do

If you're already airborne I suggest SDIing up & away. It's pretty easy to do so because of how many hits there are. Once you get enough height, you can't be grabbed because you're too high. You can float, DJ, or up+B from that position or fall with nair, airdodge, etc. Lots of stuff to do. This forces the ICs to up smash or whatever to chase you. Pick the appropriate evade, counter, etc. Whatever you need.

On the ground, I think you can CC into shield and then roll away or jump away if he starts to come at you.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

KK i plan to use your advice to learn the match-up with trail tomorrow. I'll come back with more later if i must. Thank you

 

[KirbyKaze]

The space that's aggravating for ICs to challenge is above & in front of them. Their f-smash is slow, their fair is slow, their nair sucks, and you can just go over everything else.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I feel like their fsmash is still a very relevant threat when trying to approach them from their vulnerable area, but this could also be me being predictable.

 

[baka4moé]

Hey KirbyKaze I noticed u commented on my vid vs. eddy (i think it was you lol, forgive me if im wrong), and was wondering if you could please elaborate on what you said/what i should do/anything you might have noticed for some advice. I figured i should ask you here since what you may say might be generally useful to anyone needing help in the luigi matchup.

I feel like peach is too slow/has difficult options against a luigi that misfires, which is why i tried to stay below him when going offstage, or just wait for him to get back. Are there better ways to edgeguard him?

Idk, it feels like a really icky mu imo compared to most. Not as bad as marth though! =p

 

[Wake]

So if my opponent mains Fox and Marth, do you guys think I should ban PS and fight Marth on YS or ban YS and fight Fox on PS? I can't really tell which one feels worse.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey KirbyKaze I noticed u commented on my vid vs. eddy (i think it was you lol, forgive me if im wrong), and was wondering if you could please elaborate on what you said/what i should do/anything you might have noticed for some advice. I figured i should ask you here since what you may say might be generally useful to anyone needing help in the luigi matchup.

I feel like peach is too slow/has difficult options against a luigi that misfires, which is why i tried to stay below him when going offstage, or just wait for him to get back. Are there better ways to edgeguard him?

Idk, it feels like a really icky mu imo compared to most. Not as bad as marth though! =p

Basically, as long as you're below kill percent from the misfire, jumping offstage with fair or bair covers a ludicrous amount of options for a fairly low risk. In a lot of situations, even if you get hit with the side-B you will kill Luigi by going offstage to intercept him simply because getting hit by it robs him of all his horizontal momentum. If they start saving their jump to try and counter this, it's still not hard to hit him. Depending on how early you catch this, you can abort mission and go for the edge (this is a MU where being able to grab the edge with your WD is really good IMO because the float stall lets you wait out a lot of his recovery stalls and then snap to the edge when appropriate, which is awesome). Edgehogging, on a related note, was another issue. You didn't hog him in a lot of situations that you could have hogged him in and it cost you a lot in terms of efficiency.

Another general tip vs Luigi (non-edgeguarding) is to stop trying to hit him with panic attacks. It's seriously the worst thing you can possibly do in a lot of situations because they're basically trying to bait you into doing those so they can get efficient up smash KOs (and your moves will rarely if ever beat his invincible up smash).

 

[EPsilon933]

So if my opponent mains Fox and Marth, do you guys think I should ban PS and fight Marth on YS or ban YS and fight Fox on PS? I can't really tell which one feels worse.

Fox. That matchup is almost even. Marth is Peach's worst threat

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Fox. That matchup is almost even. Marth is Peach's worst threat

Since heart lives in bizarro world do the opposite of what he says.

 

[EPsilon933]

Since heart lives in bizarro world do the opposite of what he says.

Yeah, mang. It's like everything I think is right. You should try it out sometime

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Yeah, mang. It's like everything I think is right. You should try it out sometime

Proving again that he is in bizzaro world and u got to flip what he says

 

[EPsilon933]

Proving again that he is in bizzaro world and u got to flip what he says

You're missing out on so much enlightenment

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Marth on ys is easy, just don't let him get away from you. Easy enough when there's nowhere for him to run.

On a similar note, I seriously advocate playing dislikable mu's as peach. She's a high tier because she has all the tools she needs to play literally any matchup and win. Just because said tools don't absolutely neuter the opponent (ic's) doesn't mean you can't outplay your opponent regardless of stage or mu.
I gotta believe in peach more. Preference has had too much of an effect on my character choice in tournament.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Marth on YS is doable on the condition that you basically keep him on the ledge the whole game and never give him any space whatsoever. Marth sucks at coming up and needs jank to make it back - if you wind up f-throwing him 8 times to kill him, do it. It's effective. Also, be aware of how good run off / SH off nair (delay it to scout his recovery choice) is vs low Marth recoveries there. It's ultimately a tiny level where Peach's pressure gets super buffed (although random tipper at 50%+ sucks).

PS Fox doesn't seem impossible either. When I did this MU with Raynex in practice many moons ago (friendlies, so take with a grain of salt) it just felt like FD that stuffs his FJs & turnips in some parts (and that nerfs your CG, but the platforms are small so reaction tech chasing with aerials isn't hard either). Transformations are super gay if they're transformation savvy, but most Foxes really aren't. Low ceiling and him landing on a side platform after an u-throw uair at certain percents can be really devastating (super low percent kills) but it doesn't seem totally horrific (just... bad).

In general, if I have the choice between someone's Marth and Fox with Peach, I think take their Marth (if they're good with both). Most Marths seem to struggle really hard in the MU as far as I can tell. Don't know why, don't really see why it matters.

 

[Rosedemon]

You're missing out on so much enlightenment

Imma just use KKs quote anytime I want someone to stop posting because its that damn good.

Never post in this thread again.